Why do feel we have to market salvation as free? What are we really appealing to in a man?

[jerry63935]

Jesus said many will fall away from the faith themselves and go so far as to betray those who still believe. Do you think they were still justified?

Do you want to know how far into falling away one can go before the TIME is reached when they aren’t IN the faith anymore? Does knowing the hour change anything?

thats not what i asked is it ? i asked YOU at what point are they no longer justified?

you answered a question with a question

 

[jerry63935]

Actually he did and I’ve heard the quotes

no actually i think you heard what you think he said. i seldom listen to charles stanley but i know he preaches the Bible. yes he teaches eternal security. preaching is like eating fired chicken eat the meat throw the bones away

 

[Dorothy Mae]

thats not what i asked is it ? i asked YOU at what point are they no longer justified?

you answered a question with a question

I did because the motive for asking how far into lawlessness and sin a man can go before it’s too far needs to brought out. Jesus himself didn’t point out the hour let alone the minute those those fall away from the faith and are lost so why should I? The question usually comes from a heart desiring to know how far into falling away can the one questioning go before it’s too far. Or alternatively, you want to know a time point when the heart of another has changed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

no actually i think you heard what you think he said. i seldom listen to charles stanley but i know he preaches the Bible. yes he teaches eternal security. preaching is like eating fired chicken eat the meat throw the bones away

I’ve heard he went through rough times and changed but he literally said “you can sin live the Devil and you won’t lose your salvation.” That’s a direct quote. I know you don’t like it but that’s what he said. He will answer to God one day for encouraging sin

 

[jerry63935]

I did because the motive for asking how far into lawlessness and sin a man can go before it’s too far needs to brought out. Jesus himself didn’t point out the hour let alone the minute those those fall away from the faith and are lost so why should I?

why because you CANT you dont have that authority

Or alternatively, you want to know a time point when the heart of another has changed.

no i wanted you to say

 

[jerry63935]

“you can sin live the Devil and you won’t lose your salvation.” That’s a direct quote. I know you don’t like it but that’s what he said.

i would have to hear the quote .. do i like it? lol there you go again putting your foot in your mouth.......i could care less .but is till have my doubts he said them exact words i will go to bed and sleep just fine... you dont even know me ..that i have a problem with saying you know what bothers me..... you speaking things about people you dont know bothers me

 

[Dorothy Mae]

why because you CANT you dont have that authority

Where did I attempt to do so in someone’s life???? And just because you and I don’t know the hour a man decides to walk away from faith in Jesus doesn’t mean it never happen(s.)

no i wanted you to say

Most people will tell you they don’t know know the hour they started loving the person who became their spouse. Doesn’t mean it never happened. Your position is if you can’t name the hour, it can’t have happened.

Did someone teach you to ask that silly question in a debate?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

i would have to hear the quote .. do i like it? lol there you go again putting your foot in your mouth.......i could care less .but is till have my doubts he said them exact words i will go to bed and sleep just fine... you dont even know me ..that i have a problem with saying you know what bothers me..... you speaking things about people you dont know bothers me

You don’t want to believe that he said that. But as I said, he went through rough times and maybe his teaching came home to roost.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Some big name preachers had the carnal Christian idea…

That one can be saved and escape hell but not change. Stanley…the older one…maybe?

Yep. Here.

Perseverance of the saints - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Free Grace or non-traditional Calvinist doctrine has been espoused by Charles Stanley, Norman Geisler, Zane C. Hodges, Bill Bright, and others. This view, like the traditional Calvinist view, emphasizes that people are saved purely by an act of divine grace that does not depend at all on the deeds of the individual, and for that reason (in contrary to Calvinism) insists that nothing the person can do can affect their salvation. In the Free Grace view, saints can fall away (stop persevering) in both conduct and faith yet remain eternally secure.

I don’t see how that’s at all supported by Scripture but..???

They have their ways, lol.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yep. Here.

Perseverance of the saints - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Free Grace or non-traditional Calvinist doctrine has been espoused by Charles Stanley, Norman Geisler, Zane C. Hodges, Bill Bright, and others. This view, like the traditional Calvinist view, emphasizes that people are saved purely by an act of divine grace that does not depend at all on the deeds of the individual, and for that reason (in contrary to Calvinism) insists that nothing the person can do can affect their salvation. In the Free Grace view, saints can fall away (stop persevering) in both conduct and faith yet remain eternally secure.


They have their ways, lol.

That is actually a pretty funny post. It is a very popular doctrine and anyone can see why.

 

[jerry63935]

You don’t want to believe that he said that. But as I said, he went through rough times and maybe his teaching came home to roost.

or maybe your the one paul is talking about silly women being led astray

 

[Dorothy Mae]

or maybe your the one paul is talking about silly women being led astray

Because I remember what your favorite preacher says that you’d wished he’d not?

 

[jerry63935]

That is actually a pretty funny post. It is a very popular doctrine and anyone can see why.

so you find it funny? i dont ! not because i teach eternal security. i preach a know so salvation the old timers who teached eternal security ---- which is totally opposite of P O S pots teaches those WHO are TRULY SAVED will stay with GOD. eternal security teaches you can never loose salvation. you just dont get no rewards.. i have studied all this out for years. gen baptist and other nosas you can be eternally saved. but walk away from your salvation and be come lost again.. so there you have a bit of a lesson and apostolic teach to be saved one has to be baptized in jesus name. speak in lounges. i hope this dont go over your head 2

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is actually a pretty funny post. It is a very popular doctrine and anyone can see why.

It's a joke, that's for sure.

If I recall correctly, and if I have the right wiki link, Charles Stanley was quoted as saying since salvation is not by works you can't lose it by not working. That doctrine doesn't recognize the fact that the absence of works in the 'Christian's' life is actually the absence of faith. And nobody is saved who does not have faith in God's forgiveness. The so-called Christian who does not have the changed and changing life to match their profession of faith is not saved for the question of whether or not they can lose their salvation to even be an issue to begin with.

 

[jerry63935]

since salvation is not by works you can't lose it by not working.

yes that is how he believes. while its been years since i have listened to him . he does teach against sin

The so-called Christian who does not have the changed and changing life to match their profession of faith is not saved for the question of whether or not they can lose their salvation to even be an issue to begin with.

and that is POTS teaching i found that out when in carm forum .

i lean some what towards that those truly saved will stay with it or return much like the prodigal son..
since i am not the judge of salvation .
i dont have the authority to say.
i have just enough oil to take care of ME and that is a full time job

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's a joke, that's for sure.

If I recall correctly, and if I have the right wiki link, Charles Stanley was quoted as saying since salvation is not by works you can't lose it by not working. That doctrine doesn't recognize the fact that the absence of works in the 'Christian's' life is actually the absence of faith. And nobody is saved who does not have faith in God's forgiveness. The so-called Christian who does not have the changed and changing life to match their profession of faith is not saved for the question of whether or not they can lose their salvation to even be an issue to begin with.

The thing is based on a fallacy in any case. A teen might get a car or motorcycle or a horse for a gift without doing anything, but if they neglect to WORK TO MAINTAIN that gift, it will be inability to be enjoyed. Most people don’t say their courtship was full of work but if you don’t work on your marriage, you’ll lose it for sure. I mean WHO gives a gift and retains responsibility for it not getting lost???

 

[jerry63935]

The thing is based on a fallacy in any case. A teen might get a car or motorcycle or a horse for a gift without doing anything, but if they neglect to WORK TO MAINTAIN that gift, it will be inability to be enjoyed. Most people don’t say their courtship was full of work but if you don’t work on your marriage, you’ll lose it for sure. I mean WHO gives a gift and retains responsibility for it not getting lost???

evidently you dont have a clue.. let me help you if its possible. the groups who teach osas teach saved by grace through faith justified by faith. blood and grace. the only difference is the teach one can not lose salvation . they have scriptures to back it up. just like the osnas group has their scriptures ..its a one word thing called interpretation .


but as usual with both groups they are to busy screaming your wrong wrong and i have the correct doctrine.. instead of doing as paul instructed work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. a woman i grew up around her brother and i was good friends . she is full blown Pentecostal lady preacher . when i talk to her i simply talk Church i dont tell her she is wrong. it would ruin a friendship .

i know several bro and sisters in Christ that believes different than me so its obvious by your post you dont have a clue.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A teen might get a car or motorcycle or a horse for a gift without doing anything, but if they neglect to WORK TO MAINTAIN that gift, it will be inability to be enjoyed. Most people don’t say their courtship was full of work but if you don’t work on your marriage, you’ll lose it for sure. I mean WHO gives a gift and retains responsibility for it not getting lost???

The problem with analogies when it comes to securing salvation is there is nothing in this life to compare salvation to where you have something if you believe, and don't have it if you don't believe.

Matthew 9:29
29“According to your faith will it be done to you.”

What in life is like this? Nothing that I know of. And so analogies don't do well here. Salvation is something you have because you believe, or don't have because you don't believe.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

and that is POTS teaching i found that out when in carm forum .

What's POTS teaching?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

i lean some what towards that those truly saved will stay with it or return much like the prodigal son..

That's where I'm at with it.