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Why do feel we have to market salvation as free? What are we really appealing to in a man?

Charlie24 said:
No need for us to argue. We see it differently, didn't mean to here as a new member and start a ruckus.
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A kind answer. You will find different kinds of thinking here although this site is pretty small as compared to others. If you want to learn and also see how others think, labels need to be withheld until well earned. I’m anything but a legalist. I won’t tell you all the general church do’s I don’t because the legalists will attack me.

But I am very different than your average christian. I’ve prayed for the lame and they walked, rebuked demons and they left. I lived on faith for 5 years and had food and clothing. I’ve obeyed Him and as a result come to understand some truths as he said. I weave scripture into my posts to see who knows it. I seldom put it in bold with colored letters (flashing lights as it were) for believers ignorant of scripture which, by the way, is exactly what the writers of the New Testament did. It was interesting to me that I once quoted scripture word for word (which I can do a lot of and seldom look up verses because they come to mind as I write) and a poster out right said they don’t agree.

So I’m accused of not using much scripture but really it’s woven into my writings naturally. It’s often that unless it’s in bold, believers, even pastors, don’t recognize scripture.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Why can't we call a legalist who says justification/salvation is not free a legalist?????
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Because that’s not what a legalist is. It’s just meant to be an untrue insult.

And the Bible tells us how to sees 'em.

I deleted the foul language. First take the log out of your own eye and then you’ll see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother’s eye.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
A kind answer. You will find different kinds of thinking here although this site is pretty small as compared to others. If you want to learn and also see how others think, labels need to be withheld until well earned. I’m anything but a legalist. I won’t tell you all the general church do’s I don’t because the legalists will attack me.

But I am very different than your average christian. I’ve prayed for the lame and they walked, rebuked demons and they left. I lived on faith for 5 years and had food and clothing. I’ve obeyed Him and as a result come to understand some truths as he said. I weave scripture into my posts to see who knows it. I seldom put it in bold with colored letters (flashing lights as it were) for believers ignorant of scripture which, by the way, is exactly what the writers of the New Testament did. It was interesting to me that I once quoted scripture word for word (which I can do a lot of and seldom look up verses because they come to mind as I write) and a poster out right said they don’t agree.

So I’m accused of not using much scripture but really it’s woven into my writings naturally. It’s often that unless it’s in bold, believers, even pastors, don’t recognize scripture.
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Well, It's nice to meet you! I'm new here but far from new on the boards.

I've been around on sites for a long time now, discussing the things pertaining to our Lord.

Legalism is hard subject to discuss without feelings coming on board, so I apologize if you took offense at my statements. I guess after all the years I'm just straight out with it.

But I do hope you take my points in thought. We who believe that salvation is by Grace through faith (alone) can see the gift as nothing other than free, being there is nothing we can do to earn it.

From that standpoint, whoever denies that, is naturally seen as a type of legalist. We assume if one cannot see the free in the gift, then they are trying to earn it in some way.

I hope you can see our point and not be offended by it.
 
Charlie24 said:
Well, It's nice to meet you! I'm new here but far from new on the boards.

I've been around on sites for a long time now, discussing the things pertaining to our Lord.

Legalism is hard subject to discuss without feelings coming on board, so I apologize if you took offense at my statements. I guess after all the years I'm just straight out with it.
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I didn’t take offense. It’s simply laughable it’s so off. It was untrue. But I’m not offended anymore than if you would tell me I’m just too young to understand. I’d laugh.
Charlie24 said:
But I do hope you take my points in thought.
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Of course. I always do.
Charlie24 said:
We who believe that salvation is by Grace through faith (alone) can see the gift as nothing other than free, being there is nothing we can do to earn it.
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But why is this important? Did you have to repent to receive it? Do you have to love God? Why did Jesus not tell the women washing his feet with her tears that what she was doing was unnecessary? Why did he tell Zechaus that salvation came to him only after he was going to return all stolen stuff? Why did that matter? Does a man have to do anything at all to be saved or is it a matter of pure luck?
Charlie24 said:
From that standpoint, whoever denies that, is naturally seen as a type of legalist.
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Franky speaking, you INSISTING it’s all free LEGALLY is very much legalism. You point to isolated verses and tell me that based on those words, a legal document, your salvation is free. That’s the best example of legalism I can think of.
Charlie24 said:
We assume if one cannot see the free in the gift, then they are trying to earn it in some way.
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You are incorrect. Time to branch out from the box. Is a wife free? Does that mean if the husband works for her he’s a legalist?
Charlie24 said:
I hope you can see our point and not be offended by it.
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As I said, I’m not in the least offended. You don’t know enough to offend. I’m sorry the gift being free is more important than the Giver being pleased.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
I didn’t take offense. It’s simply laughable it’s so off. It was untrue. But I’m not offended anymore than if you would tell me I’m just too young to understand. I’d laugh.

Of course. I always do.

But why is this important? Did you have to repent to receive it? Do you have to love God? Why did Jesus not tell the women washing his feet with her tears that what she was doing was unnecessary? Why did he tell Zechaus that salvation came to him only after he was going to return all stolen stuff? Why did that matter? Does a man have to do anything at all to be saved or is it a matter of pure luck?

Franky speaking, you INSISTING it’s all free LEGALLY is very much legalism. You point to isolated verses and tell me that based on those words, a legal document, your salvation is free. That’s the best example of legalism I can think of.

You are incorrect. Time to branch out from the box. Is a wife free? Does that mean if the husband works for her he’s a legalist?

As I said, I’m not in the least offended. You don’t know enough to offend. I’m sorry the gift being free is more important than the Giver being pleased.
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LOL, OK
 
Dorothy Mae said:
I hadn’t noticed.
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Here's one.

Jethro Bodine said:
I have found that the joy of the Spirit is more valuable than the burden of an unforgiving spirit.
I pray that God give you a profound baptism of his holy love. It will be worth more to you than holding grudges against people who do not treat you nice. It's truly a supernatural miracle to actually care about people who don't treat you well because you are overwhelmed with God's love and presence and abundance and life.
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The Christian faith is all about the overflow of the Spirit in the fulfilling of "love your neighbor as yourself".
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No, because the Bible says, 'let him who boasts boast in the Lord'.

Stop trying to take away from me what God has freely given me.
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This is what I mean. This is not the response of someone who has the joy of the Lord nor practicing love towards others.

Nevertheless, let’s move on.I recognize that You are content and don’t want that disturbed. (That, btw, IS a loving response.)
 
Dorothy Mae said:
I hadn’t noticed you being those things. You easily lash out at those who challenge your “free” gift.
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Are you ever going to explain why you say justification is not free when this passage says it is?

Romans 3:23-24
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
But that's what a legalist is.
A legalist thinks the declaration of righteousness that the Bible says is freely given is received by doing righteous things.
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No, a legalist is a man who reads words in a page and applies them solely because they are written there. That’s what a legal perspective is. For example, a legalist reads his marriage license and tells his spouse that these words say we are married and so we have a close relationship. The words say so. He does not apply all of the logical and necessary elements to the assumed conclusion. You read “free” and assume you needed to do nothing at all. I can hardly get you guys to admit that you had to repent of sin. Salvation came freely without having even give up any sin you love as it wouldn’t be “free” anymore. I can’t get you guys to say you must love God even cause it wouldn’t be “free” anymore. That’s legalism.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No, don't move on.
You are directly contradicting Romans 3:23-24 and we want to know why.
Don't you realize you're saying the Bible is wrong?
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I realize your side is legalistic on a level that is rare. I picture you standing before God telling Him that by Romans 3, you didn’t need to do anything to be saved including repent or it wouldn’t be free. He will have a slew of verses to tell you and you will see it differently.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
What is it about 'righteousness apart from works' that you do not understand? Romans 4:6


Repenting of sin does not make anyone righteous. Justification (being made righteous) is a free gift given when your sins are forgiven.
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Did you need to repent to receive righteousness?
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Salvation came freely without having even give up any sin you love as it wouldn’t be “free” anymore.
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Giving up sin can never make a person righteous. You can only be made righteous (justified) by having your sins forgiven through faith in the blood of Christ.
 
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