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Why do feel we have to market salvation as free? What are we really appealing to in a man?

Dorothy Mae said:
Made me laugh. I have noticed and there are more rules and fairly tyrannical enforcement of those rules. It is like living in a fascist state instead of a church. But I have not noticed a push for "salvation is absolutely free and costs you nothing" except in some members (whom I suspect do not want to have to do anything at all.) I have asked a few of these "everything is free" if they feel obligated to love God and most refuse to answer or outright say "no." Salvation or entry into Heaven is so free one does not even need to bother oneself to love the Owner.

No, it does not. Those who see following Jesus as something they did when they repented and were forgiven are not working for the forgiveness they already experienced. That is a straw man argument.

Was the woman who wept washing Jesus' feet with her hair doing that work to get salvation? What about the man in the tree who entertained Jesus with dinner and announced during the meal that he was prepared to give back all that he had stole plus and Jesus, wait for it, announced that at that moment salvation had come to him. What was Jesus thinking? The man offered to do a WORK and Jesus said he was saved because of that work!!! Holy Smoke Bullwinkle!

The problem here is the whole and sole focus is on what you (not you personally) got. That is it. Just what you got out of the arrangement. What you might need to give, like loving God, is left out lest you fall into "works salvation" meaning best not love God nor man because doing anything at all for Him is legalism and working your way to salvation.
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Well, i suppose you are of the legalist sort, that would explain our controversy.
 
Charlie24 said:
Well, i suppose you are of the legalist sort, that would explain our controversy.
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Ah, name calling…when you are unable to support your position resort to the worldly tactic of name calling.

But I am very different than you, it’s true. I have a deep passion for God Himself. I remember counting the cost of following Him, as in the parable, and deciding to do so. Best decision I ever made. Because, and you won’t understand this, walking through life with God is so wonderful, I’d do it even if there were no Heaven awaiting me. I don’t care that I’m saved and going to avoid hell. I care that He is pleased with me.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Only people who have been made righteous before God solely on the basis of their faith in the forgiveness of God will have the deeds of the Spirit that Jesus will commend them for at the end of the age. Works salvationists who think they are made righteous in God's sight by doing righteous things will NOT have righteous deeds worthy of Jesus' praise at the end of the age because the works salvation gospel does not solicit the righteousness of God for a person from which to perform those righteous deeds. Like the Pharisees, they are only fooling themselves that they are somehow righteous and will as a result be spared the wrath of God at the return of Jesus.
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That dead horse again!
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Only people who have been made righteous before God solely on the basis of their faith in the forgiveness of God will have the deeds of the Spirit that Jesus will commend them for at the end of the age. Works salvationists who think they are made righteous in God's sight by doing righteous things will NOT have righteous deeds worthy of Jesus' praise at the end of the age because the works salvation gospel does not solicit the righteousness of God for a person from which to perform those righteous deeds. Like the Pharisees, they are only fooling themselves that they are somehow righteous and will as a result be spared the wrath of God at the return of Jesus.
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Do you love God or just that absolutely free gift?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
It is separate to how a person is made righteous. Following Jesus does not make you righteous. The forgiveness of your sin received through faith does. That's the ONLY thing that can make you righteous. You keep denying it, but it's kind of obvious that you believe a person is made righteous by doing righteous things, like forgiving others.
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Maybe it would be good if you stopped focusing on how righteous you are because you’ve done nothing at all for God or man keeping that law with great care (do no good works lest you fall into works salvation and become unrighteousness) and focus on a different aspect. How about love your neighbor as yourself resting assured that the man in the mirror is RIGHTEOUS.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Ah, name calling…when you are unable to support your position resort to the worldly tactic of name calling.

But I am very different than you, it’s true. I have a deep passion for God Himself. I remember counting the cost of following Him, as in the parable, and deciding to do so. Best decision I ever made. Because, and you won’t understand this, walking through life with God is so wonderful, I’d do it even if there were no Heaven awaiting me. I don’t care that I’m saved and going to avoid hell. I care that He is pleased with me.
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Back to the subject matter, I maintain the "free gift" as did Peter and Paul.

I question the motives of those who don't recognize that gift as free!
 
Dorothy Mae said:
If you keep people in boxes you’ve labeled, you’ll never understand their motives.
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I guess we won't understand you until you explain why justification is not free even though the Bible says it is.

Romans 3:23-24
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 5:15-17
15But the (free) gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the (free) gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many! 16Again, the (free) gift is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment that followed one sin brought condemnation, but the (free) gift that followed many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the (free) gift of righteousness (see Romans 3:24 above) reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!


These passages plainly say justification (receiving God's righteousness) is free. It's undeniable. So explain to us what it means for justification (being made righteous) to be free. Because that's what the Bible plainly says it is. Or, do you want to continue to insist it is not free?
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Maybe it would be good if you stopped focusing on how righteous you are because you’ve done nothing at all for God or man keeping that law with great care (do no good works lest you fall into works salvation and become unrighteousness) and focus on a different aspect.
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SELF righteousness is what is condemned in scripture. But I will boast all day long about God's righteousness given to me in Christ as a free gift of his grace. No apologies here.


1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”


And, no, I do not say to not do good works so you won't become unrighteous and fall into the condemnation of a works gospel. That's stupid. Never said it. Never endorsed it. I am aware that there are misguided Christians who level that argument. And I resist it firmly. We have been given the righteousness of God to do works! In fact, righteous work is the sign you have the righteousness of God in Christ.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
How about love your neighbor as yourself resting assured that the man in the mirror is RIGHTEOUS.
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I've been a member of this forum a long time. And I think many of my posts survived the big Forum changeover. There are lots of my posts explaining how 'love your neighbor as yourself' is the end all of the Christian faith. It's the only thing that matters. And we do the thing that matters above all other things through God's gracious free gift of His Righteousness. That's why He gave it to us! To walk in it!
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I guess we won't understand you until you explain why justification is not free even though the Bible says it is.

Romans 3:23-24
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 5:15-17
15But the (free) gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the (free) gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many! 16Again, the (free) gift is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment that followed one sin brought condemnation, but the (free) gift that followed many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the (free) gift of righteousness (see Romans 3:24 above) reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!


These passages plainly say justification (receiving God's righteousness) is free. It's undeniable. So explain to us what it means for justification (being made righteous) to be free. Because that's what the Bible plainly says it is. Or, do you want to continue to insist it is not free?
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You are right, you won’t understand me. But explaining to you who love your free ticket to Heaven what it means to love the Giver more than the gift will avail nothing. It’s impossible to explain the primary importance of love to those who lack it.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I've been a member of this forum a long time. And I think many of my posts survived the big Forum changeover. There are lots of my posts explaining how 'love your neighbor as yourself' is the end all of the Christian faith. It's the only thing that matters. And we do the thing that matters above all other things through God's gracious free gift of His Righteousness. That's why He gave it to us! To walk in it!
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I hadn’t noticed.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Why can't we call a legalist who says justification/salvation is not free a legalist?????

PC crap don't cut it in the church. We calls 'em as we sees 'em. And the Bible tells us how to sees 'em.
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I agree, Brother! Legalism comes in all forms, shapes and sizes.

I do believe that some just don't realize it.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
SELF righteousness is what is condemned in scripture. But I will boast all day long about God's righteousness given to me in Christ as a free gift of his grace. No apologies here.


1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”


And, no, I do not say to not do good works so you won't become unrighteous and fall into the condemnation of a works gospel. That's stupid. Never said it. Never endorsed it. I am aware that there are misguided Christians who level that argument. And I resist it firmly. We have been given the righteousness of God to do works! In fact, righteous work is the sign you have the righteousness of God in Christ.
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How about boasting in something besides what you got?
 
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