Why do feel we have to market salvation as free? What are we really appealing to in a man?

[gordon777]

I don't think a person is born-again only so that they might become filthy once more. This is a Strawman version of what I've written.

Yu talk a lot of great swelling own words of vanity Tenchi.

Maybe this below might wake you up to see what you are doing.

You are not showing the same doctrine, that you allure through the flesh those who clan escaped, promising liberty in Christ while saying Saints are carnal, and serve sin ?




2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[gordon777]

What does it mean to be a partaker of Christ? It means the Christian will partake in his suffering, in his glory in the future heavenly Jerusalem, in his purposes in the World, saving the lost from hell, in his righteousness, power and peace, and so on. But, as I pointed out to you before, I can possess Christ and not benefit from all that he would impart to my life through the Spirit. By way of analogy, if I own a lawnmower but choose to trim my lawn with a pair of scissors, do I no longer own the lawnmower? No, I only cease to benefit from its power to cut my grass with much greater speed, evenness, and efficiency. So, too, with Christ. I can be one of his, but not benefiting from - or partaking of - him but snipping at the "grass" of my life with the "scissors" of self-effort and sinful compromise.

To be in Christ, HIs righteousness, as you now mention, ( no need for your great swelling words of your analogy) is to be righteous EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS.

To say Saints in Christ are carnal, is blasphemy therefore ( don't you yet see the rebuke heavily on you?)

Also to awake to righteousness ( for Christ to wake us from the dead and give us light not to stumble) is to sin not.

As to suffer in the flesh ( as seen to be believed in Christ) is to cease from sin.

Why would we let ANY MAN DECEIVE US...




1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.



1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.


1 Peter 4:Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.



The false way is taught Tenchi, you are right about that much.

But the false way cant acknowledge that we ceased from sin ( by believing in the light of Christ)

So the false way cannot cease from sin ( they are not Saints, but are carnal) who have FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY.



2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

 

[gordon777]

A Christian ( if any ever came to forum unaware of what is in charge and speaking on them) has to avoid contentions, foolish questions, and heresy. The man that is subverted and sins this way, is to be rejected, as they are condemned of themselves. ( Carnal saints would tend to disagree.)

But those who sin are rebuked before al, so others may fear.

Some men openly show their sins, they go to judgement. ( we are commanded to love our neighbour as ourselves, and no man ever yet hated his own flesh but nourishes it) The devil is example of pretense, only loving itself at the expense of all others.

Likewise the good works ( in the Spirit of love for your neighbour as in Christ) are manifest ( show they are in the light of Christ) and they who are otherwise ( in darkness/carnal) are SEEN/ their folly is manifested.

Do not write any more to me thanks, no more questions and strifes of words, no pride, no surmisings, no perverse disputing.




Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1 Timothy 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That doesn’t make sense. Do you mean justification is not unconstitutional? You say it’s not conditional and give the conditions.

Does one have to repent to be justified and saved or is it that one is simply lucky? If one needs to repent (as described as a condition in the preaching in the Bible) it is not at all unconditional.

If you could stop sinning as a condition to be justified you wouldn't need to be justified. You'd already be a righteous person. Repentance doesn't mean what you think it means. It's a renouncing of sin, not a cessation of sin.

Proverbs 28:13
13He who conceals his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them will find mercy.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You say it’s not conditional and give the conditions.

It's not conditional on works.

The condition for being justified (made righteous), and therefore saved, is faith in the forgiveness of God, not the performance of works of righteousness. The removal of your sin debt can ONLY be accomplished by having your sin debt forgiven for free, and having your unrighteousness replaced with God's righteousness. It is from that position of righteousness, received through faith, that you then do works of righteousness. Those works serving as the sign of your righteousness in Christ, not the procurer of it.

 

[Edward]

It’s more blessed to give than receive, especially when giving to God.

I'm in total agreement here up until the last 5 words. Oh it sounds good, who wouldn't give to God? Even the pharisees did that. I'm thinking...


...especially the poor and needy or even your enemies. Fot that is the harder task. And Jesus said, when you give your enemies help or a drink then that is as if you had done it for Jesus Himself.

So who wants to go Bless their enemy today and cut them a check!??!! I think I have the heart for it, but I dunno where to find my enemies? I wasn't even aware that I had enemies tbh. Except for evil spirits and such, and the government of course...I'm not sending the government a check though! They still owe me.

 

[Edward]

If you could stop sinning as a condition to be justified you wouldn't need to be justified. You'd already be a righteous person. Repentance doesn't mean what you think it means. It's a renouncing of sin, not a cessation of sin.

Right. And the Lord forgives this child of God but at the same time knows that even the best Christians can not be sin free in their lives in the flesh because of all of the contamination done to it through sin. So the sins are forgiven, and now the damage needs repaired so we work towards sanctification and a pure heart by remaining repentant of heart...and wake up again tomorrow and inadvertantly sin again...Ugh.

A single drop of Jesus's blood was enough to redeem the entire human race. When that roman guard pierced Jesus side with the spear the water & blood burst forth in great quantities. I bet the guy who pierced Jesus was sprayed with Jesus blood and therein is his salvation, besides, the Lord had just prayed for him (them) forgive them father they know not what they do.

Don't we know that His Love covers a multitude of sins?

If I repent in the morning, then sin in the afternoon, I need to repent again to receive that forgiveness for that sin. But all of my other sins were previously forgiven so God will not even remember those.

 

[Tenchi]

I can certainly see why you have this view. It pretty much matches what seems to be along the modern preaching themes, what you get out of God. How could you but think as you do?

What I "get out of God" is God. He offers to me Himself. That is the greatest gift of salvation, in my view. God is Himself my "exceeding great reward," just as He was for Abraham (Genesis 15:1).

There might be some though, who have a love in them for God Himself, not just what they got from Him.

There really isn't a clean distinction between the two, I think - at least, not from God's side. There is nothing He can impart to us that isn't originating in Himself ultimately.

There might be some who read Isaiah where God was asking who He could send to accomplish a task He wanted done and the man who loved God cried out, “Here am I. Send me!”

Dorothy Mae, you have no idea of the content of my life, in what ways God has used me for His purposes in the world and the lives of fellow believers. I hope, then, you aren't implying here that I have been unwilling to be used of God.

I was giving something to God and the memory is very sweet. As a side note, later a couple who were invited to sleep in a local’s house, gave me their sleeping bags and I wasn’t cold anymore. But I had surrendered the right to be warm at night. I gave Him something He could not buy. I would that those who long to give instead of just take know it’s possible and more delightful in any case.

I live as a vessel for God's use everyday. That's what He made me for. Sometimes, I get caught up in the mundane events of a day and step out from under His control, but the moment I realize I've done so, I return again to a place of yieldedness to Him. For the most part these days, though, I am a "vessel meet for His use," (2 Timothy 2:21) by His power becoming more and more so as the days pass. Sometimes this has been difficult; at other times a delight; but always it has been my joy to be used by my Creator for His eternal purposes.

None of this, however, is precluded by noting the things I did in my last post to you.

 

[Tenchi]

Christ is first told about by those prophets, Abraham and as many as have spoken, foretold about the days of Christ.

That is why they are mentioned in the foundation, because Israel are the children of the prophets and of the covenants made with their fathers ( Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.)

It is for faith, to know about the covenant beginning, with Abraham, God saying to Abraham, that in his seed shall all the people of the earth be blessed.

Yes, and? Still not seeing what any of this has to do with what I've been writing...

Through faith, ( belief) physical things are performed.

God through faith created the worlds, the physical worlds, so without faith being physical also, nothing would exist.


Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

??? You have misunderstood the verse from Hebrews 11, gordon777. The verse isn't saying that God, through faith, "framed the world" but that WE believe, by faith, that God "framed the world," understanding that the invisible, spirit-being we call God, made the visible, tangible universe in which we live. In regards to faith, what Hebrews 11:3 is talking about is US, our belief in God's creative power and work. We were not present when God made everything by His will, expressed in His commands of creation, and so we must, by faith, understand that He did, trusting that what the Bible records of His creative work was what actually happened.

God did not require faith to create the physical reality in which we exist. He simply spoke what He wished to be and it was. In what would God need to exercise faith? There was only Himself prior to Creation and He knew He could create whatever He wished. Faith was not necessary in the utter certainty of His divine, infinite power, knowledge and perfection.

Through that same faith, Christ layed His life down ( faith and love, faith only works through love, and love is an action)




Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.


1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

You have misunderstood Scripture here, too.

Galatians 5:4-6 (NASB)
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

It is not Christ's faith, or God the Father's, that is in view but OURS. We are, through the Spirit, by faith, "waiting for the hope of righteousness"; we don't rely on righteousness obtained by our obedience to the law because we know we cannot be justified (made righteous) by the law, as Paul wrote here. Instead, by faith, working through love, we are in Christ, justified fully before God in him, serving one another and our Holy Maker.

How could Abraham not believe ?

This ignores my point, gordon777. Abraham was not crucial to God's plans. No man is.

Abraham is the father of all, because he is, as testified, the heir of the world.

See? You're just parroting your views, not actually engaging with what I'm writing to you. I assume this is so because you don't know how to engage with them.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

What does it mean for Abraham to be "heir of the world"? He is not literally so. Many people around the world know nothing of Abraham and don't know Christ as their Savior and Lord. These folk are Buddhists, or Muslims, Hindus or Daoists, or atheists, or Wiccans, etc. Is Abraham their father? Are they his literal, physical descendants? Obviously not. And they certainly aren't his spiritual descendants, which is what Paul is talking about in Romans 4:13. So, then, in what way is Abraham the "heir of the world"? At most, we can say that Abraham is so as the spiritual "father" of those who have trusted in the promises of God, as he did, who are sufficiently numerous and spread over the globe so that, figuratively, one can say that he is the spiritual "heir of the world."

None of this, though, has any bearing, really, on what I pointed out about God the Father being the True Father to all born-again believers. Abraham does not share this role with God Almighty.

Next, is that Jesus Christ confirms the promises made to the fathers. God did not do all of His works for no purpose, but because that is the only way faith could be.

Christ fulfilled all that was written of Him, which Israel ( and all) can believe in, by believing that the root of Jesse reigned over the Gentiles.

That is also why the Gospels begin the genealogy of Christ, from Abraham and King David. Showing how we are to believe, or that we cant without taking in all things shared by God....

Uh huh. And so? As far as I can see, none of this has anything, really, to do with what I've been writing.

You see this is your problem, you do not believe in the words of God first spoken.

Baloney.

They begin to show how we can walk safely, and not stumble.

Why would those incapable of sinning need such instruction?

 

[Tenchi]

Why would anyone seeking sincerity and truth follow your words Tenchi, that constantly pretend to support scripture, while at the same time directly opposing them ?

You have yet to show that my views "directly oppose Scripture." I have shown you quite comprehensively how the things I have put forward are thoroughly anchored in God's word. So far, all you've done in response is ignore what I've written and pontificate about the false doctrine of the sinless perfection of the saints.

Christ came as the light of the world, to follow Him, so we do not be ( as the wicked) to walk in darkness. We then have the light of life. If a man walks in darkness, THEY STUMBLE, ( because there is no light in them, no Christ in them.)




John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Christ's own disciples, who had lived with him for three years, and upon whom he had breathed the Spirit, sending them out to preach the coming kingdom of God, who had watched him perform a multitude of miracles and daily heard his teaching, at the last fell asleep in the Garden of Gethsemane rather than watch with him in his greatest hour of testing and then scattered upon his arrest, Peter even denying repeatedly that he had anything to do with Jesus whatever, and Judas being the one who betrayed Jesus into the hands of those who would kill him. The Twelve followed the "Light of the World" as his first and special disciples, but they bickered among themselves, and doubted, and even challenged him.

Clearly, then, to "walk in darkness" cannot mean "be apart from Christ," or "unsaved." No, "walk in darkness" is set in contrast to "have the light of life," who is the Person of Christ (John 1:4; John 14:6), not a condition of sinless perfection. Though Christ's twelve disciples had the Light of Life as their Master, they by no means were thereby perfect in their thinking, attitudes and actions. Do you deny this? Do you hold that the Twelve were sinlessly perfect as they followed the Light of Life for three years as his disciples?

Matthew 16:22-23 (NASB)
22 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You."
23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

Mark 9:33-34 (NASB)
33 They came to Capernaum; and when He was in the house, He began to question them, "What were you discussing on the way?"
34 But they kept silent, for on the way they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest.

Matthew 17:16-20 (NASB)
16 "I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him."
17 And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me."
18 And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once.
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?"
20 And He *said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith...

And so on.

Carnal is not light, carnal is dartkness.

Light is not carnal, light is Spirit ( Christ.)

The Light is a Person, as you seem to understand (sort of), not a style of living. To live in the Light is to be in Christ who is the Light; it is not to be sinlessly perfect. To "live in darkness" is to live outside of Christ, apart from him as one's Savior and Lord; in other words, to be lost. The business of living in the Light or in darkness, then, has to do with relationship, not performance. As Christ's own disciples demonstrated, though they followed the Light, they were not utterly free of darkness. Neither are the "followers of the Light" today.

We have to walk in the light as Christ is in the light ( or our sins cant be forgiven, as we never believed in the light) then we lie if we say we have no sin, ( we lie by claiming we cant stop sinning and that we have no sin, because of heresy claiming we are in Christ while we are yet carnal.)

This is just so confused. We "walk in the Light" by being "in Christ," that is, by being saved. As a person does so, they are progressively brought out of a sin-filled life into one where sin is the exception rather than the rule, where holiness is the norm, not sin. This is possible because born-again folk can stop sinning (Romans 6:1-12). But it doesn't follow that because disciples of Jesus can stop sinning that they will do so perfectly, the instant they are saved. That's just silly. And quite unbiblical for the many reasons I've already explained.

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

"Walking in darkness" carries the sense of an ongoing state-of-affairs, uninterrupted, persistent, not the stumbling and struggle that the process of growth into spiritual maturity inevitably involves. The terrible danger in the notion of sinless perfection - apart from it being clearly false - is that it promotes self-deception, fear and doubt, all of the things the devil employs in bringing people into bondage to himself.

 

[Tenchi]

Yu talk a lot of great swelling own words of vanity Tenchi.

Maybe this below might wake you up to see what you are doing.

Come on, now, brother, this sort of rhetoric is silly. "Great swelling words," indeed.

You are not showing the same doctrine, that you allure through the flesh those who clan escaped, promising liberty in Christ while saying Saints are carnal, and serve sin ?

If you were actually reading AND UNDERSTANDING what I've been writing, you would not be asking this question, the answer to which is a very obvious, "No."

To be in Christ, HIs righteousness, as you now mention, ( no need for your great swelling words of your analogy) is to be righteous EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS.

This is a spiritual reality in the believer's position in Christ; it is not an instant, practical reality for the born-again believer any more than a driver's license instantly confers upon a new driver all the experience and skill of a person who's been driving for decades. To assert that you are without sin is to tell a lie to yourself, first of all, and then expect the rest of us to go along with it. Well, I won't.

As to suffer in the flesh ( as seen to be believed in Christ) is to cease from sin.

Why would we let ANY MAN DECEIVE US...

This is a rather...ironic remark, coming from you.

The false way is taught Tenchi, you are right about that much.

But the false way cant acknowledge that we ceased from sin ( by believing in the light of Christ)

So the false way cannot cease from sin ( they are not Saints, but are carnal) who have FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY.

Again, baloney. See my earlier posts. I have experienced in my own life the progressive sanctification of my life that the word of God describes and promises to those who live in loving surrender to the Holy Spirit throughout every day. I am not the man I once was, by God's grace. How would this be possible apart from God? How was it possible for Paul, who wrote of the terrible inward battle of Romans 7? If anyone is promoting a "false way," I'm afraid it's you, gordon777.

Do not write any more to me thanks, no more questions and strifes of words, no pride, no surmisings, no perverse disputing.

Okay. But you'll have to do the same. If you don't want a conversation with me, don't provoke one.

 

[Tenchi]

A single drop of Jesus's blood was enough to redeem the entire human race.

Oh? Then why didn't Jesus just prick his finger with a pin in atonement for our sin?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Oh? Then why didn't Jesus just prick his finger with a pin in atonement for our sin?

It was necessary that He die.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What I "get out of God" is God. He offers to me Himself. That is the greatest gift of salvation, in my view. God is Himself my "exceeding great reward," just as He was for Abraham (Genesis 15:1).

So your walk with Him is on a par with Abraham? You’re on that level?

There really isn't a clean distinction between the two, I think - at least, not from God's side. There is nothing He can impart to us that isn't originating in Himself ultimately.

There is a definite difference to God. “With their lips they praise me (including for their salvation) but their hearts are far from me.” How does God measure whether a man loves Him or His gift? “If you love Me you will keep my commandments (teaching.) The difference is night and day.

Dorothy Mae, you have no idea of the content of my life, in what ways God has used me for His purposes in the world and the lives of fellow believers. I hope, then, you aren't implying here that I have been unwilling to be used of God.

Not implying that at all, Never occurred to me. But we need to realize that God used a donkey.

I live as a vessel for God's use everyday. That's what He made me for. Sometimes, I get caught up in the mundane events of a day and step out from under His control, but the moment I realize I've done so, I return again to a place of yieldedness to Him. For the most part these days, though, I am a "vessel meet for His use," (2 Timothy 2:21) by His power becoming more and more so as the days pass. Sometimes this has been difficult; at other times a delight; but always it has been my joy to be used by my Creator for His eternal purposes.

This would be interesting to discuss as I find myself in the same position.

None of this, however, is precluded by noting the things I did in my last post to you.

ok

 

[Tenchi]

So your walk with Him is on a par with Abraham? You’re on that level?

What "level" is that, exactly? And I cited what God said to Abraham about Himself, not what Abraham said about God. Did Abraham always live as though God was his "exceeding great reward"? I don't think so. Was Abraham indwelt by the Holy Spirit at all times, a once-for-all redeemed, joint-heir with Christ? Nope. But I am.

There is a definite difference to God. “With their lips they praise me (including for their salvation) but their hearts are far from me.” How does God measure whether a man loves Him or His gift?

But I wasn't talking about how God measures whether or not a person loves Him or is just trying to get what he can out of God.

Not implying that at all, Never occurred to me. But we need to realize that God used a donkey.

??? He used a donkey? What do you mean?

 

[Edward]

Oh? Then why didn't Jesus just prick his finger with a pin in atonement for our sin?

Because He is Generous!

 

[Edward]

So your walk with Him is on a par with Abraham? You’re on that level?

I don't think an answer is possible to this question. I've learned that God sometimes takes people in spirit while they sleep at night and takes them somewhere for the night watches and they help the Lord do something at night, but that the Lord wont let them remember it in the morning because of the person's pride. That they will be rewarded for it and be granted the memory of it after the Bema seat.

That is...just strange enough to perhaps be true. So maybe he has been better that Abraham? Who knows? God knows. You might even be being used by the Lord in spirit at night and don't even know it!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What "level" is that, exactly? And I cited what God said to Abraham about Himself, not what Abraham said about God.

Did He say that to you personally?

Did Abraham always live as though God was his "exceeding great reward"? I don't think so. Was Abraham indwelt by the Holy Spirit at all times, a once-for-all redeemed, joint-heir with Christ? Nope. But I am.

If you consider your walk with God greater than Abraham’s I haven’t much to say

But I wasn't talking about how God measures whether or not a person loves Him or is just trying to get what he can out of God.

I was. It’s important to God

??? He used a donkey? What do you mean?

Just because God spoke to men through us ought not to be that impressive to us. He spoke through a donkey too. Humility is important.

 

[gordon777]

You have yet to show that my views "directly oppose Scripture.

Tenchi said: "The Bible is very clear that saints may (and do) sin. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3"



Your views directly contradict scripture, not agreeing to the words taught here, but attempting to overthrow Gods words, by not looking at what the chapters even say.



These first three chapters of 1 Corinthians, show who is causing division, who do not believe in the preaching of the cross, it is foolishness to them ( they have no understanding or belief in it)

This is because as told here, God will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and being their understanding to nothing. That he disputer of this world is nowhere.

The foolishness of preaching saves them who believe ( not saving those who do not understand nor believe in the preaching of the cross.)

Second Corinthians continues, how eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor does it enter into the heart of these men, the things which God has prepared, as God reveals them to us by His Spirit.

The words of the cross are spoken not in words of foolishness of this world, but what the Holy Ghost teaches, comparing Spiritual, with Spiritual.

God tells us, the natural man ( not the men who have contentions, and disputes, and division.) receives not the things of the Spirit of God, and thy are foolishness to natural man. ( the peaching of the cross is foolishness to the division making, contentious disputers.) neither can they know them, because they are Spiritually discerned.

Third chapter of Corinthians of course continues. The people not Spiritual, cannot be spoken to Spiritually. ( The words of the cross are spoken not in words of foolishness of this world, but what the Holy Ghost teaches, comparing Spiritual, with Spiritual.)

They are unable to bear ( unable to believe in the preaching of the cross.) because of ass mentioned in chapter 1, envying, strife and divisions. That is walking as men in the wisdom of this world which is foolishness, and the disputers come to nothing as told in chapter 1.





1 Corinthians 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[gordon777]

Okay. But you'll have to do the same. If you don't want a conversation with me, don't provoke one.

Do not write any more to me thanks, no more questions and strifes of words, no pride, no surmisings, no perverse disputing.

You are rebuked because of your claim of saints sinning in 1 Corinthians 3.

You are the very same people as in 1 Corinthians 3, caught up in strife, division, contention. No wonder you invent a stroy that they are saints, as you do exactly the same,.instead of hearing the corrections in 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3, the Corinthians in strifes would reject it, and claim they are saints too.

Even though you claim you are saved, the saved clearly was not those in strife, and dispute and contention, but only those who believed the preaching of the cross, without your disputes, contentions and division.

The people of Corinth were rebuked for having divisions, and told plainly they are showing they do not believe in the preaching words of the cross( as thy could not be spoken the words that the Holy Ghost teaches.)

Job done, you are revealed for being the exact same.