Why I want to be left behind

[turnorburn]

Hopefully to its conclusion Kathi, remember that we are in a war a spiritual war some call it spiritual warfare.. when the devil knows he's been found out he tries to maneuver us give us something else to think about something so grandiose that a person swerves from the truth to get a better look...

tob

 

[Kathi]

Hopefully to its conclusion Kathi, remember that we are in a war a spiritual war some call it spiritual warfare.. when the devil knows he's been found out he tries to maneuver us give us something else to think about something so grandiose that a person swerves from the truth to get a better look...

tob

Yes,there is a spiritual war going all around us in another dimension.So you are saying that Satan is trying to maneuver people of believing in the rapture and that the rapture is not the truth?

 

[JLB]

Gary said -

Many believe there will be a 7 year period after the catching up in which the beast will persecute the saints. But scripture says the beast will be destroyed at His coming.

Those that try to separate the saints at the rapture, can not and will not explain this verse from 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

The Resurrection can not be separated from the Rapture, those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together with the resurrected saints.


The Resurrection and Rapture are one event, whereby Jesus returns to gather all His people.

No one is left behind.

He returns once to reign and rule right here on earth, with all His people.

Unless one can prove from the scriptures that the Resurrection of the dead comes BEFORE the Tribulation, the pre-trib Rapture theory is nor biblical.



JLB

 

[turnorburn]

Before Johannes Gutenberg and the printing press before Christians had their very own 'PB' where did we go for our spiritual advice..

tob

 

[Obadiah]

Before Johannes Gutenberg and the printing press before Christians had their very own 'PB' where did we go for our spiritual advice..

tob

What's a PB?

 

[turnorburn]

That would be personal bible Obadiah..

tob

 

[Obadiah]

That would be personal bible Obadiah..

tob

Uh huh! I KNEW it had to stand for something other than "Peanut Butter"!

Now I'm hungry. Wonder if I have any peanut butter and jelly around...

Oh, but in response to your post about where people got spiritual advice before that... Well, I think that's what made chuch leaders such powerful and fearful people back then. They could tell you pretty much anything they wanted and claim that it wasn't THEM telling you this, but GOD HIMSELF saying it, whether that was true or not.

 

[jasonc]

That would be personal bible Obadiah..

tob

ok. uhm prior to Tyndale how would actually get a personal bible?
in England.

 

[Kathi]

Uh huh! I KNEW it had to stand for something other than "Peanut Butter"!

Now I'm hungry. Wonder if I have any peanut butter and jelly around...

Oh, but in response to your post about where people got spiritual advice before that... Well, I think that's what made chuch leaders such powerful and fearful people back then. They could tell you pretty much anything they wanted and claim that it wasn't THEM telling you this, but GOD HIMSELF saying it, whether that was true or not.

Mmmmm PB and crackers.

 

[Obadiah]

Mmmmm PB and crackers.

And celery! Love it with celery!

 

[Kathi]

And celery! Love it with celery!

Me too That is funny.I didn't think anyone else liked that.I just fill the crevice.

 

[Deborah13]

I thought you meant Printed Bible, tob.

 

[n2thelight]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/why-i-want-to-be-left-behind-126835/
Why I want to be left behind

• 
  
  (Photo: Stoney Lake Entertainment)
  The official movie poster for "Left Behind" starring Nicolas Cage.

"Left Behind" comes out this week, an apocalyptic thriller starring Nicolas Cage. Based on the best-selling book series, the movie revolves around "the rapture": a belief that one day all Christians will suddenly vanish, disappearing from the earth to go be with God, while the world they "left behind" plunges into apocalyptic destruction.
Americans may find "Left Behind" to be best-selling entertainment, but is it biblical? I say no. In fact, as a follower of Jesus I find the rapture to be not just a little bit off, but actually upside-down and backwards.
When Jesus comes, here are a few reasons why I want to be left behind.
A Recent Invention
The rapture is new to the Christian scene. It arose in the late 1800's, when Margaret MacDonald, a fifteen-year-old Scottish girl, claimed to have it revealed to her in a vision. Her vision was then picked up and popularized by the famous British preacher J.N. Darby, during his extensive travels in America.
All love to the high school prom queen and traveling street preacher, but this is a suspiciously short track record for nearly 2000 years of Christian theology.
Okay, so it's new. But does it have any biblical support? Let's take a look at the two passages most frequently cited and see if they hold any weight.
Don't Get Taken
The name "Left Behind" comes from the words of Jesus, when he says:
"As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man . . . Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left." (Matthew 24:37-41)
Pretty straightforward, right? Son of Man shows up. Some are taken. Some are left behind.
The problem is this: taken means killed.
If you lived "in the days of Noah," getting taken by the flood wasn't a good thing. It didn't mean being rescued, it meant getting taken out. Dead. Gone. Killed. Knocked over by the judgment of God. Wiped out by the flood.
Jesus confirms this when he says, smack-dab in the heart of this passage, that before the flood came people were partying it up in the empire: eating sushi and drinking wine, throwing glitzy wedding bashes, rockin' out and living high off the hog.
"They knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away."
If you lived in Noah's day, you didn't want to get taken. You wanted to be left behind.
So when rapture enthusiasts say they can't wait to get "taken," I can't help but think of Inigo Montoya's penetrating slogan from "The Princess Bride": "You keep on using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."
Jesus tells us that taken means judged; left behind means salvation.
I, for one, want to be left behind.
The King's Arrival
The second passage most often used to support the rapture comes when Paul comforts people who've lost loved ones with the hope of resurrection. When Jesus returns, we're told, the trumpet will sound and:
The dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
At first glance, this <em>could</em> look like "the rapture." But if the rapture is such a recent theological invention, how was this passage historically understood?
N. T. Wright gives some helpful context. In the ancient Roman Empire, when the emperor came to visit a city, upon word of his arrival those loyal to the emperor would leave the city to go out and meet him, in order to join the triumphant procession back in.1
So the picture here is similar: the earth is under siege, under the corrupt power of sin, destruction and death. But Jesus, the "good emperor," is returning to "liberate his city," to deliver God's world from the dark and disastrous powers that now hold sway.
When Jesus comes "down from heaven" in verse 16, his loyal followers go out to meet him "in the air" – not to stay floating in some ethereal sky-space like mutant birds, but to join his victorious procession to liberate the world.
Jesus comes not to whisk us out of earth and into heaven, but to establish God's just and righteous kingdom on earth as in heaven.
Once again, "Left Behind" gets it upside-down: our redemptive hope is oriented not "away from" this world, but "towards" it.
Conclusion
Don't get "taken" by rapture theology; you want to be "left behind." The irony is that "Left Behind" is not just a little bit off, it is completely backwards. Our hope is not "in the air," it is in Jesus' redemptive kingdom "for the world."
The danger of "Left Behind's" impact is this: it uses fear to set up an "us vs. them," "save yourself," escapist hope of "beam me up Scotty and get me out of this world." But as I show in my new book, The Skeletons in God's Closet (shameless plug ), God's mission is not to get us out of earth and into heaven or hell, but rather to redeem earth from the destructive power of sin, death and hell.
Our hope is not escapist or fear-based for our own self-preservation. It is courageously loving, sacrificially suffering, redemptively hopeful for the world
When Jesus comes to establish God's kingdom, I for one want to be here.
I want to be left behind.

Beautiful!!!!!

 

[turnorburn]

This is the way i understand it..before mass produced bibles people went to church to get spiritual guidance there they had bibles but they were in Latin.. problem.. not everyone spoke Latin and the priests preferred it that way, after all they had the keys to the kingdom didn't they.. Obadiah has the right idea.. then along came the reformers.. one in particular started the ball rolling when.. after reading II Thessalonians 2:1-12.. he said this..

Oh Christ, my Lord, look down upon us and bring upon us the day of judgment, and destroy the brood of Satan at Rome. There sits the Man, of whom the Apostle Paul wrote that he would oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God — the Man of Sin, the son of perdition . . . What is the Temple of God? Is it stones and wood? Did not Paul say, The Temple of God is holy, which Temple ye are? To sit — what is it but to reign, to teach and to judge. Who from the beginning of the church has dared to call himself master of the whole church but the Pope alone. None of the saints, none of the heretics ever uttered so horrible a word of pride. (Luther's Works, Vol. 2. p. 281).

As more and more people started leaving the church something had to be done to stop the bleeding.. start a counter reformation..

The Counter Reformation
The Catholic Church in 1545 convened one of its most famous councils in history, which took place north of Rome in a city called Trent. The Council of Trent actually continued for three sessions and ended in 1563. One of the main purposes of this Council was for Catholics to plan a counterattack against the Protestants and Martin Luther. Hence the Council of Trent became a centre for Rome’s Counter Reformation. Rome’s main method of attack up to this point had been largely frontal such as the open burning of heretics and Bibles. But this warfare only confirmed in the minds of Protestants the conviction that Papal Rome was indeed the Beast which would “make war with the saints” (Revelation 13:7). Therefore a new tactic was needed, something less obvious. This is where the Jesuits and futurism come in.

To be continued unless it gets closed..

tob

 

[th1b.taylor]

You people are nuts! The only Godly way to eat peanut butter is on a sandwich with sautéed onions, sautéed to the point they are just browning. Now I'm hungry and my Deeter is asleep!

 

[th1b.taylor]

Oh yeah, I tell people, all of the time, that as we ascend, be sure to wave back when I wave because no matter, pre, mid or post, we are all going together if we are alive or in the grave and I do believe. Sorry 'bout the first post, hunger can be evil and I love those evil little Goobers in any state but made into butter they are just too much to resist with the onions sautéed.

 

[Brother Mike]

Luk 17:36 two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left.'
Luk 17:37 And they answering say to him, `Where, sir?' and he said to them, `Where the body is , there will the eagles be gathered together.'

An eagle is a bird of prey, so that doesn't sound to good to me.

That's very good. Impressive that you brought this up. Most of the post trib belief (I do mean most) is easy to defeat in a easy understandable and reasonable way. Sad that most never mention the passages here, as most pre tribbers can't explain it. On a tablet, so.... I will
Have to wait. Post tribbers make the mistake of ignoring that Jesus also said pray that you will escape all these things. So it all has to line up.

 

[Deborah13]

You people are nuts! The only Godly way to eat peanut butter is on a sandwich with sautéed onions, sautéed to the point they are just browning. Now I'm hungry and my Deeter is asleep!

I usually love southern cuisine but that is just too weird.

To each his/her own.....it's a good thing for some of us that some money hungry psychologist type hasn't written a book, claiming that food preferences are a clue to a person's personality type. :blush
Although, it wouldn't be that far out in left field compared to some of the other junk that is written.

 

[th1b.taylor]

That's very good. Impressive that you brought this up. Most of the post trib belief (I do mean most) is easy to defeat in a easy understandable and reasonable way. Sad that most never mention the passages here, as most pre tribbers can't explain it. On a tablet, so.... I will
Have to wait. Post tribbers make the mistake of ignoring that Jesus also said pray that you will escape all these things. So it all has to line up.

You are so right, Mike, but they will argue about it until they are blue in the face anyway. And I have gotten some strange looks when I assure them that, "If we both live long enough, be sure to wave back at me as we fly up to meet the LORD in the cloud!"

 

[Deborah13]

That's very good. Impressive that you brought this up. Most of the post trib belief (I do mean most) is easy to defeat in a easy understandable and reasonable way. Sad that most never mention the passages here, as most pre tribbers can't explain it. On a tablet, so.... I will
Have to wait. Post tribbers make the mistake of ignoring that Jesus also said pray that you will escape all these things. So it all has to line up.

That's because post tribbers also read with the warning that Jesus gives the solution, "flee to the mountains." So we see that the ones taken are those who fall prey to the eagles and
His people escape, they follow His orders to "flee to the mountains."