Why many stumble.. Amillennialism and Replacement Theology

[jasoncran]

As we can see.. there's not a single verse in the holy scriptures which teaches that the church of God is Israel.. and yet there are multitudes within Christendom who have been taught that very thing..

WHY ?

cough anti-semitiscm crept into the rcc and by the schizm into reformers as well. you think not? look at how we look at the ot verses the converted jews that were raised in judaism. who has the better teaching points on the tanakh? the jews there never was a ot/nt division in the bible. it was done by a heretic. the nt is completation of the story of the isreali nation!

 

[Eventide]

cough anti-semitiscm crept into the rcc and by the schizm into reformers as well. you think not?

Do you think that is the root cause though.. anti semitism..? I don't understand why people hate the Jews.. they're no different than anyone else.. they're under the same condemnation as Gentiles.. and they're justified the same way that Gentiles are.. by faith.

look at how we look at the ot verses the converted jews that were raised in judaism. who has the better teaching points on the tanakh? the jews there never was a ot/nt division in the bible. it was done by a heretic. the nt is completation of the story of the isreali nation!

That's why I often enjoy your perspective..

 

[jasoncran]

Do you think that is the root cause though.. anti semitism..? I don't understand why people hate the Jews.. they're no different than anyone else.. they're under the same condemnation as Gentiles.. and they're justified the same way that Gentiles are.. by faith.



That's why I often enjoy your perspective..

i wasnt raised in the temple. the lord took me to the old testament first and told me this" this is your roots as you are a jew, you cant grasp the gospel without first understand the book of genesis etc"

satan in some ways is behind this. though i dont think all the pushers of the church is isreal hate jews , few do these days. remember its not that hard to say hey by this logic..

we are his sons and daughters therefore we are his people as well. that is in fact what the gentile church is. but God does and did say he hasnt cast off isreal or forgotten abraham. keep in mind in europe that the jews were hated and that has gone for centuries so if any mention of them getting right with God would be kinda not taught.

just my opinion. i know the rcc and the calvinists and lutherans killed the jews at one or another.but not all the puritans(calvinists as well) hated the jews. remember satan has this thing for the jews. perhaps a score to settle for the cross. i cant get the christians but i can kill of the jews who were promised land and maybe that will negate gods word thus the cross will be done.

 

[Elijah674]

Do you think that is the root cause though.. anti semitism..? I don't understand why people hate the Jews.. they're no different than anyone else.. they're under the same condemnation as Gentiles.. and they're justified the same way that Gentiles are.. by faith.



That's why I often enjoy your perspective..

Well, what was the reason why many stumble with [[REPLACEMENT]] Theology?
A whole bunch of pages, and still NO CLEAR CUT Scripture either [FOR or AGAINST!] Eccl. 3:15

---Elijah

 

[Levi]

We as Christians are spiritual Israelites, we are grafted into the vine of Israel.

"salvation is of the Jews"

Gen 26:4 'God to Abraham'

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed,"

God has never deserted Israel He is gathering her in, we to are children of the promise!

The reason Satanically driven groups want to exterminate the Jews is because they play a significant part in prophecy. Satan tried to exterminate them off the face of the earth through Hitler so that they could not return to the land and fulfill prophecy toward the second coming.

Ironically this was one of the main catalyst for Israel to reenter the land. Those of you who have read the O.T. will know what I am talking about here:

Israel gets throw out of the land by God for punishment and Israel never reenters the land until God permits. It;s through this fact that we know her time of punishment is nearly over.

Jesus cursed a fig tree because he could find no fruit on it (strangely it was out of season for figs) He later said this about the generation that would see the second coming come to pass:

"learn the lesson from the fig tree, when you see the leaves begin to sprout you know that summer is near"

Israel is the fig tree and the leaves have begun to sprout. The hatred and persecution is not over yet though, Satan will have one last ditch effort at wiping her out in an attempt to subvert prophecy.

This short youtube video exposes the fact that Mohammedans are carrying on the Nazi policies.

The shocking video Muslims don't want you to see!! - YouTube

 

[Eventide]

i wasnt raised in the temple. the lord took me to the old testament first and told me this" this is your roots as you are a jew, you cant grasp the gospel without first understand the book of genesis etc"

It's SOOOOO IMPORTANT imo to understand the BASIS for our faith today.. the OT is infinitely glorious in its ability to tell the story over and over again in seeminly countless ways.. and to your point.. even the book of Genesis shows us thematically the story of Israel rejecting their Messiah and being restored in the latter days.

satan in some ways is behind this. though i dont think all the pushers of the church is isreal hate jews , few do these days. remember its not that hard to say hey by this logic..

Excellent point.. the god of this present evil world is certainly at work..

we are his sons and daughters therefore we are his people as well. that is in fact what the gentile church is. but God does and did say he hasnt cast off isreal or forgotten abraham. keep in mind in europe that the jews were hated and that has gone for centuries so if any mention of them getting right with God would be kinda not taught.

Although the Christian church has been warned to not be ignorant of the mystery pertaining to Israel.. and that warning comes from the Apostle to the GENTILES...

just my opinion. i know the rcc and the calvinists and lutherans killed the jews at one or another.but not all the puritans(calvinists as well) hated the jews. remember satan has this thing for the jews. perhaps a score to settle for the cross. i cant get the christians but i can kill of the jews who were promised land and maybe that will negate gods word thus the cross will be done.

And this is how I see the end times playing out.. the entire world coming against Israel and God delivering them in that Day despite every attempt under the sun to wipe them off the face of the earth.. it aint gonna happen..

 

[Eventide]

Well, what was the reason why many stumble with [[REPLACEMENT]] Theology?
A whole bunch of pages, and still NO CLEAR CUT Scripture either [FOR or AGAINST!] Eccl. 3:15

---Elijah

Really..? So what are your thoughts on the matter ?

 

[Eventide]

We as Christians are spiritual Israelites, we are grafted into the vine of Israel.

I don't see the bible teaching me that I am a 'spiritual Israelite'.. I'm a GENTILE.. not an Israelite. We know that the church of God is in CHRIST (the VINE) and that Israel has been cut off and blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

"salvation is of the Jews"

No doubt about that !

Gen 26:4 'God to Abraham'

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed,"

God has never deserted Israel He is gathering her in, we to are children of the promise!

I disagree.. the nation of Israel remains blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.. and Christ is now building His church.. while Israel remains cut off and blinded in part.

The reason Satanically driven groups want to exterminate the Jews is because they play a significant part in prophecy. Satan tried to exterminate them off the face of the earth through Hitler so that they could not return to the land and fulfill prophecy toward the second coming.

Ironically this was one of the main catalyst for Israel to reenter the land. Those of you who have read the O.T. will know what I am talking about here:

Israel gets throw out of the land by God for punishment and Israel never reenters the land until God permits. It;s through this fact that we know her time of punishment is nearly over.

Jesus cursed a fig tree because he could find no fruit on it (strangely it was out of season for figs) He later said this about the generation that would see the second coming come to pass:

"learn the lesson from the fig tree, when you see the leaves begin to sprout you know that summer is near"

Israel is the fig tree and the leaves have begun to sprout. The hatred and persecution is not over yet though, Satan will have one last ditch effort at wiping her out in an attempt to subvert prophecy.

I agree, once the Lord is finished building His church, and the fulness of the GENTILES has been brought in.. THEN shall the Deliverer come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB..

 

[jasoncran]

the church is indeed a spiritual isrealite

peter spoke of us all a peculiar nation called out to be priesthood.

God did the same with nation of isreal. he just went to the gentiles and did for them why he wanted to do with the nation of isreal. its to provoke the nation of isreal to jealousy.

what is the mark of salvation for the church, the blood that is a spiritual circumision. we stick out if we indeed are his. in the ot days the diet and the male act of circumision with faith did the same. God used isreal to show the world that he was god.

read up on that in exodus and joshua. the nations were in fear when the isrealites were right with God. they knew God meant business.

 

[Levi]

I don't see the bible teaching me that I am a 'spiritual Israelite'.. I'm a GENTILE.. not an Israelite. We know that the church of God is in CHRIST (the VINE) and that Israel has been cut off and blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

Brother study up, you are missing out on a wonderfull heritage that is ours through Christ!

Rom. 2:29: ... "but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of

the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."



Rom. 4:16: ... "Abraham, who is the father of us all" ...


Gal. 3:7: "Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham."



Gal. 4:26: ... "but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all."



Heb. 12:22-23: "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, ... to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven," ...



Gal. 6:15-16: "But in Christ it is not circumcision or uncircumcision that counts but the power of new birth. To all who live by this principle, to the true Israel of God, may there be peace and mercy!" [Phillips]



Phil. 3:3: "For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh," ...
Col. 2:11: "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands," ...



Eph. 2:11-13: "Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh ... that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been made near by the blood of Christ."



Eph. 2:19-20: "Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone," ...

I disagree.. the nation of Israel remains blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.. and Christ is now building His church.. while Israel remains cut off and blinded in part.

Physical Israel is under blindness, but God has not deserted her, this is evidenced in us, the Church!

Jesus is the King of the Jews and the Church is His body.

I agree, once the Lord is finished building His church, and the fulness of the GENTILES has been brought in.. THEN shall the Deliverer come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB..

Yes from Jacob, Don't forget the time of Jacob's trouble as well and remember the promise was to Abraham!

 

[Levi]

the church is indeed a spiritual isrealite

peter spoke of us all a peculiar nation called out to be priesthood.

God did the same with nation of isreal. he just went to the gentiles and did for them why he wanted to do with the nation of isreal. its to provoke the nation of isreal to jealousy.

what is the mark of salvation for the church, the blood that is a spiritual circumision. we stick out if we indeed are his. in the ot days the diet and the male act of circumision with faith did the same. God used isreal to show the world that he was god.

read up on that in exodus and joshua. the nations were in fear when the isrealites were right with God. they knew God meant business.

Paul's war cry: "If God is for us who can stand against us"

Awesome man!

 

[Eventide]

Brother study up, you are missing out on a wonderfull heritage that is ours through Christ!

I've had people like yourself tell me that I'm a 'spiritual Israelite' many times.. although as I mentioned, the bible does not teach this.. at least anywhere that I can see. Paul is the Apostle to the GENTILES.. and if anyone was going to teach that, it would most likely be him.. and yet in all his letters to the churches he doesn't teach that.

Rom. 2:29: ... "but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of

the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

I agree with this.. and it doesn't teach me that CHRISTians are Israelites.. it teaches me that Jew is one inwardly.

You also told me that the church of God is grafted into Israel the VINE.. although Israel is not the vine.. CHRIST is the vine.

Rom. 4:16: ... "Abraham, who is the father of us all" ...


Gal. 3:7: "Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham."

Yes, anyone who has faith is just like Abraham.. the father of faith.. although where does this teach that I'm a 'spirtual Israelite'..?

Gal. 4:26: ... "but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all."

AMEN.. although again, where does it teach that I'm a 'spiritual Israelite''? Why does the bible say that I am a CHRISTIAN if I'm an Israelite..?

Heb. 12:22-23: "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, ... to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven," ...

Absolutely..

Gal. 6:15-16: "But in Christ it is not circumcision or uncircumcision that counts but the power of new birth. To all who live by this principle, to the true Israel of God, may there be peace and mercy!" [Phillips]

Key words there.. IN CHRIST..

Phil. 3:3: "For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh," ...
Col. 2:11: "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands," ...

Again, AMEN.. now where does it teach me that I am a 'spiritual Israelite'..?

Eph. 2:11-13: "Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh ... that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been made near by the blood of Christ."

GENTILEs were alienated from the common WEALTH of Israel.. and now they're not.. and our wealth is IN CHRIST, not in Israel.. according to the bible, Israel has been cut off and they're blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.. the WEALTH of Israel was CHRIST, not Israel..

Are you going to maintain that the church is grafted into ISRAEL when the scriptures teach us that we're in Christ ?

Eph. 2:19-20: "Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone," ...

Physical Israel is under blindness, but God has not deserted her, this is evidenced in us, the Church!

Is that how you interpret the mystery pertaining to Israel as outlined in romans 11:25-29 ? That the church is ISRAEL..? It makes no sense.. go ahead and please explain Romans 11:25-29 and you'll see what I mean.

Jesus is the King of the Jews and the Church is His body.

Jesus is the King of the Jews, and King of kings.. and He is the HEAD of the church.. which is HIS BODY. That's why we're called CHRISTians and not Israelites. Israel is not in Christ yet, they're still blinded in part while Christ is building His church..

Yes from Jacob, Don't forget the time of Jacob's trouble as well and remember the promise was to Abraham!

And JACOB is Israel.. again.. explain Romans 11:25-29 and you'll see that it makes no sense to believe that the church of God is Israel.. it's not.. it's the body of Christ.. His future bride to be.

 

[Eventide]

Levi, it's pretty clear that you have embraced Replacement Theology in believing that the church is Israel.. how about amillennialism.. are you also amillennial in believing that there is no future restoration for the nation of Israel ?

 

[Levi]

Levi, it's pretty clear that you have embraced Replacement Theology in believing that the church is Israel.. how about amillennialism.. are you also amillennial in believing that there is no future restoration for the nation of Israel ?

How can you say that? you judgment is crooked! I have never stated that the Church has replaced Israel.

In fact quite the opposite, my position should clearly be to you and all who read these threads that the Church is a part of Israel, partakers in the promise.

I explain Romans 11:25 onward by reading the verses that precede it like any diligent Christian should do.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches ; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited , but fear ; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God ; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness ; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

You see it is not the Church that supports Israel, Israel supports the Church

Nor are Israel and the Church a different tree.

THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME OLIVE TREE!

We are partakers of the promise to Abraham, if you cannot see this then I wonder where you think your promise comes from?

This explains the mystery quite nicely:

...a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved

Until the fullness of the gentiles has come in...

Come into where?

into Israel of course!

Why

So that

ALL ISRAEL will be SAVED.

Israel are GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE

are you chosen or not?

simple! Why complicate it with religiosity. I am here to try and convince you of nothing. You claim the cross so you should know these things.

Do you have a problem with being associated as an Israelite?

 

[Eventide]

How can you say that? you judgment is crooked! I have never stated that the Church has replaced Israel.

If you believe that the church IS Israel (in claiming that we're 'spiritual Israel) then that essentially is a type of Replacement Theology.. although the crux of the matter actually comes down to whether or not you believe that the NATION OF ISRAEL will be restored when Christ comes again in His glory, and then sits upon the throne of His glory..

AND.. this ties into Amillennialism.. because if you don't believe in the future reign of Christ on earth, and Israel restored at that time.. but rather believe that this present time IS the millennial reign of Christ.. then you'd be embracing Amillennialism..

In fact quite the opposite, my position should clearly be to you and all who read these threads that the Church is a part of Israel, partakers in the promise.

You mentioned that the church is grafted into the vine and that the vine is Israel, correct ? IMO that's incorrect, because Israel is CUT OFF and their house has been left desolate.. and the church of God is IN CHRIST, who IS the VINE.. Israel isn't the vine, Christ is. The church of God is being built upon the confession of Jesus of Nazareth being the Son of the living God.. and the nation of Israel rejects that fact til this day.. and that's why they're cut off while Christ is building His church.. CHRISTians..

I explain Romans 11:25 onward by reading the verses that precede it like any diligent Christian should do.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches ; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited , but fear ; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God ; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness ; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

You see it is not the Church that supports Israel, Israel supports the Church

I didn't say that the church of God supports Israel.. but that Israel has been cut off and that they're blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

And once again, I think you're reading it as though ISRAEL is the VINE.. although we know for a fact scripturally that CHRIST is the VINE and that we are the branches.

Nor are Israel and the Church a different tree.

THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME OLIVE TREE!

I agree that we're not different in that our root and sustenance is CHRIST.. He was the WEALTH of Israel and now that they're cut off for rejecting HIM.. He is the WEALTH of the church of God.. our LIFE even !

We are partakers of the promise to Abraham, if you cannot see this then I wonder where you think your promise comes from?

The promises of God of course.

This explains the mystery quite nicely:

...a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved

Until the fullness of the gentiles has come in...

Come into where?

into Israel of course!

Why

So that

ALL ISRAEL will be SAVED.

Israel are GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE

are you chosen or not?

simple! Why complicate it with religiosity. I am here to try and convince you of nothing. You claim the cross so you should know these things.

Do you have a problem with being associated as an Israelite?

NO.. the fulness of the GENTILES is coming in the CHURCH OF GOD, not the Israel of God.. remember, Israel has been cut off and they will remain cut off until the receive the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King..

It doesn't matter to me if I'm called an Israelite.. although the real issue is in IGNORING the mystery pertaining to Israel and then becoming wise in our own conceits.. as Paul says.

 

[Levi]

If you believe that the church IS Israel (in claiming that we're 'spiritual Israel) then that essentially is a type of Replacement Theology.. although the crux of the matter actually comes down to whether or not you believe that the NATION OF ISRAEL will be restored when Christ comes again in His glory, and then sits upon the throne of His glory..

I do not believe that the 'Church IS Israel'.

I have stated and always have that the Church is a 'PART of Israel' and that we as Christians are 'spiritual Israelites'

Israel are Gods chosen people and Christ is the fulfillment of Gods promise to Abraham.

The oil and the wine

AND.. this ties into Amillennialism.. because if you don't believe in the future reign of Christ on earth, and Israel restored at that time.. but rather believe that this present time IS the millennial reign of Christ.. then you'd be embracing Amillennialism..

I believe in the millennial reign of Christ on the earth.

You mentioned that the church is grafted into the vine and that the vine is Israel, correct ? IMO that's incorrect, because Israel is CUT OFF and their house has been left desolate.. and the church of God is IN CHRIST, who IS the VINE.. Israel isn't the vine, Christ is. The church of God is being built upon the confession of Jesus of Nazareth being the Son of the living God.. and the nation of Israel rejects that fact til this day.. and that's why they're cut off while Christ is building His church.. CHRISTians..

That was a typo I should have stated the olive tree.

"The law and the prophets where until John"

The gathering of the gentiles is another chapter in the gathering of 'Gods chosen people'

Jesus is the revelation of the promise to Abraham and we as Christians are partakers in the promise.

This is the Church age.

I didn't say that the church of God supports Israel.. but that Israel has been cut off and that they're blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

You implied that I had somehow stated the Church replaces Israel.

And once again, I think you're reading it as though ISRAEL is the VINE.. although we know for a fact scripturally that CHRIST is the VINE and that we are the branches.

Jesus is the Word of God as well don't forget.

I agree that we're not different in that our root and sustenance is CHRIST.. He was the WEALTH of Israel and now that they're cut off for rejecting HIM.. He is the WEALTH of the church of God.. our LIFE even !

The law which He came and died to fulfill. The stone that the builders have rejected God has used as the cornerstone to build His temple.

The promises of God of course.

Which promise?
The promise we have of eternal life in Christ is the fulfillment of the promise God gave to Abraham.

NO.. the fulness of the GENTILES is coming in the CHURCH OF GOD, not the Israel of God.. remember, Israel has been cut off and they will remain cut off until the receive the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King..

Where does it say in scripture anything about the fullness of the gentiles coming into the Church? The verse is quite plainly talking about Israel.

Else why would the word 'gentile' even be used?

In this age both Jew and gentile can only be saved by Christ for all are under the same disobedience.

The completion of the body, yes, the completion of the church yes but the 'fullness of the gentiles' coming into the church?

The completion of the Church in the body of Christ is the fullness of the gentiles coming into Israel, then the veil will be lifted and the remnant shall be saved and Israel is complete.

REMEMBER THERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN BY WHICH A MAN MAY BE SAVED! They must recognize that Jesus is the:

MESSIAH, the savior of ISRAEL

Jesus is the salvation of all!! This is fact, He is the savior.

It is the same Holy Spirit that the prophets and the kings received He is the same Spirit that David and Isiah knew that we know today, He who resides in our hearts.

David, Isiah and the prophets, they all knew Jesus.

Rom 4:16 "Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to ALL ABRAHAM'S OFFSPRING - not ONLY to those who are of the LAW, but ALSO those who are of the FAITH OF ABRAHAM."

Israel has been PARTIALLY cut off, you have stated this a number of times.

It doesn't matter to me if I'm called an Israelite.. although the real issue is in IGNORING the mystery pertaining to Israel and then becoming wise in our own conceits.. as Paul says.

Sometimes I feel many people may actually have an aversion to being termed an Israelite because of the high rate of antisemitism in the world.

Israel is the name of the descedants of Abraham, You know as well as I do it is what God called Jacob.

It is not 'Jew' it is 'Israel' of the law and of the faith.

 

[reba]

How much Israeli blood does it take to make one an Israeli?

( Please if the word you prefer is Hebrew, Jewish, Israelite just change it)

 

[mondar]

I attend a Church with half of the people Amil and half preMill. While I fit in with a more pre-mil eschatology, I would never point at my Amil brothers in the Lord and say they "stumble."

I notice in this thread, that recently Levi and Eventide are talking past each other.
--- Eventide, you did not seek to understand the language and concepts behind the language of Levi. You merely saw a term or two and went blazing away without understanding what Levi meant by certain phrases. You just seem to jump to conclusions and start making accusations before you even really tried to understand what Levi meant by his terms and language. I would suggest that you become a little more familiar with the thinking of other people before behaving in the way you do.
Furthermore, I think in your mind, you associate all Amillenialists with replacement theology. If that is true, then you undoubtedly will misrepresent Levi in your conversation. Even the title of your thread seems to assume that most or all Amillenialists are replacement theologians. That is simply an error.

--- Levi, I know that long posts do not get read very well, but your brief statements really need to be fleshed out so that people can grasp some of your concepts. You seem to me to be suggesting that there is some relationship between Israel and the Church, but that the Church has not replaced Israel. Do I have that right? I would suggest that you define your terms. What you mean by the term "Israel," and also define the term "Church." You might want to articulate in more specific terms what you think the relationship is between the Gentiles and Israel, and how they come to the same blessings. If I am reading you right, you seem to be saying that God took some or all of the blessings promised to Israel and gave them to Gentiles in the Church.

A FEW EXTRA COMMENTS---- There are really two separate issues. One is the timing of the return of Christ, and the other is the nature of the Israel/Church issue. Some Amillenialists do believe in replacement theology, but they seem to be few in number to me. There are also some preMillenialists that seem to get quite close to replacement theology.

 

[Vic C.]

Off topic posts will continue to be deleted. :bigfrown

totopic

... and stay on topic please. :yes

 

[jasoncran]

How much Israeli blood does it take to make one an Israeli?

( Please if the word you prefer is Hebrew, Jewish, Israelite just change it)

to the orthodoxy. one mother has to be a jewess. in that sense i am not. to the reformed i am. Its God who told me that i am one that i go by.
i carry the name (cranman) therefore most assume i am fully hebrew.