Why Sunday???

[RND]

[youtube:3ifzyowe]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH8520YG-gI&feature=channel_page[/youtube:3ifzyowe]

 

[RND]

"The first precept in the Bible, is that of sanctifying the seventh day: 'God blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and sanctified it.' Gen. 2:3. This precept was confirmed by God, in the Ten Commandments: 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy'. 'The SEVENTH DAY is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.' [Ex. 20:8-11]. On the other hand, Christ declares that he is 'not come to destroy the law, but to fulfil it.' Matt. 5:17. He himself observed the [Seventh-day] Sabbath: 'And as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day.' Lk. 4:16. His disciples likewise observed it, after His death: 'They rested on the Sabbath day according to the commandment.' Lk. 23:56.

"Yet, with all this weight of Scripture authority for keeping the Sabbath, or seventh day holy, Protestants, of all denominations, make this a profane day and transfer the obligation of it to the first day of the week, or the Sunday. Now what authority have they for doing this? None at all, but the unwritten Word, or Tradition of the Catholic church, which declares that the apostles made the change in honor of Christ's resurrection, and the descent of the Holy Ghost, on that day of the week."--John Milner, The End of Religious Controversy, in a Friendly Correspondence Between a Religious Society of Protestants, and a Roman Catholic Divine, "Letter 11, To James Brown, Esq," 1897, p. 89.

"Ques. --What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the Pope the authority to change a command of God?
"Ans. --If the Bible is the only guide for the Christian, then the Seventh-day Adventist is right, in observing the Saturday with the Jew . . . Is it not strange that those who make the Bible their only teacher, should inconsistently follow in this matter the tradition of the Catholic Church?"--Bertrand Conway, The Question Box, 1903 ed., pp. 254-255; 1915 ed., p. 179 [Conway (1872-1959) was a Paulist father in the Catholic Church].

"The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first . . . Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."--Catholic Mirror, September 2 and December 23, 1893 [The Catholic Mirror, a Baltimore journal was at this time the official organ of Cardinal Gibbons].

"Prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says, No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And ho! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church."--Priest Thomas Enright, CSSR, President of Redemptorist College, Kansas City, Mo., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, February 18, 1884, and printed in the Hartford Kansas Weekly Call, February 22, 1884, and the American Sentinel, a New York Roman Catholic journal in June 1893, page 173.

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act . . . AND THE ACT IS A MARK of her ecclesiastical power."--from the office of Cardinal Gibbons, through Chancellor H.F. Thomas, November 11, 1895.

 

[RND]

“For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.â€Â--Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. “To Tell You the Truth.â€Â

“Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:â€Â

“1.) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.â€Â

“2.) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.â€Â

“It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible.â€Â--Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.

“I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: No. 'By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.â€Â--T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a Lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.

“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.â€Â-- Rome’s Challenge www.immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.

“Written by the finger of God on two tables of stone, this Divine code (ten commandments) was received from the Almighty by Moses amid the thunders of Mount Sinai...Christ resumed these Commandments in the double precept of charity--love of God and of the neighbour; He proclaimed them as binding under the New Law in Matthew 19 and in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5)...The (Catholic) Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s Day...He (God) claims one day out of the seven as a memorial to Himself, and this must be kept holy...â€Â-- The Catholic Encyclopaedia, vol. 4, “The Ten Commandmentsââ‚Â, 1908 edition by Robert Appleton Company; and 1999 Online edition by Kevin Knight, Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.

 

[RND]

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.†-- St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

“Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The (Roman Catholic) Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days.†-- John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies, 1936 edition, vol. 1, p. 51.

“St John speaks of the Lord’s day (Rev 1:10) but he does not tell us what day of the week that was, much less does he tell us what day was to take the place of the Sabbath ordained in the commandments. St.Luke speaks of the disciples meeting together to break bread on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7. And St. Paul (1 Cor.16:2) orders that on the first day of the week the Corinthians should lay in store what they designated to bestow in charity on the faithful in Judea: but neither the one or the other tells us that this first day of the week was to be henceforth a day of worship, and the Christian Sabbath; so that truly the best authority we have for this ancient custom is the testimony of the church. And therefore those who pretend to be such religious observers of Sunday, whilst they take no notice of other festivals ordained by the same church authority, show that they act more by humor, than by religion; since Sundays and holidays all stand upon the same foundation, namely the ordinance of the (Roman Catholic) church.†-- Catholic Christian Instructed, 17th edition, p. 272-273.

 

[Brother Lionel]

Brother Lionel,

Thanks for your reply, I will pray, and study, about what you wrote to me. The Lord bless you.

You're more than welcome lovely. I would definately encourage you to pray and study this issue. I wish I could share more with you but I dont want to give you too much at one time. Please shoot me a message if you have any questions. May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Revelation 22:21

 

[Tina]

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[youtube:5wkd0vwl]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_SbJRn5jE8&feature=PlayList&p=81A30A0CD6584B9F&index=0[/youtube:5wkd0vwl]

How is this video of any relevance to the topic on hand ? ......

Catholic bashing is not allowed anywhere in the forum.
Let's just respect one another and stay on topic please !


......... :naughty

[youtube:5wkd0vwl]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH8520YG-gI&feature=channel_page[/youtube:5wkd0vwl]

This video is also lame !

We don't have to appeal to any Catholic traditions to know that there is no longer a Saturday Sabbath.

The Bible tells us so ..... Please read all my posts in the entire thread !


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[Brother Lionel]

Ok so Tina,

Have you ever thought abou this issue?

Why Sunday if there is nothing in the New Testament that says "worship on Sunday"??

 

[Tina]

Why Sunday if there is nothing in the New Testament that says "worship on Sunday"??

There is nothing in the New Testament that says "worship on Saturday" either ..... DUH !!!

 

[RND]

How is this video of any relevance to the topic on hand ? ......

Did you watch it?

Catholic bashing is not allowed anywhere in the forum.
Let's just respect one another and stay on topic please !

Since when is the truth considered bashing?

This video is also lame !

Oh, well if we graded everything on such a scale I suppose anything could be ignored.

We don't have to appeal to any Catholic traditions to know that there is no longer a Saturday Sabbath.

The Bible tells us so ..... Please read all my posts in the entire thread !

I wonder where the Bible tells us there is no longer a sabbath? 2 Colossians 2:16? :D That's rich! I suppose you're giving me permission to go back and rummage through your posts? Tell me this. If you won't hear the truth others have offered what makes me think you won't hear me either?

 

[RND]

^Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

While the above scripture exhorts believers to meet and fellowship regularly, it does not mention it has to be done on a Sabbath or Sunday or any other specific day.

That's correct it doesn't. Can we at least stipulate that it says nothing, nothing, about the solemnity of the sabbath being changed to Sunday?

Colossians 2:16-17
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

That's right, let no one judge you if you want to observe a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day. In other words, don't let those spouting the philosophy of man and their vain deceit cause you not to worship Jesus. Tell me something are the Ten Commandments "philosophy and vain deceit" or "the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ?"

Romans 14:5
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

Is the word sabbath found anywhere in Romans 14? Tell me something are the Ten Commandments "doubtful disputations?"

These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God.

No they don't! These scriptures only are made clear to someone who has their mind made up! :D

Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other.

It does? Tell me, does the Bible say anything about judging adultery, or stealing? Coveting? Good Lord! 1Cr 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Sabbath-keeping is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day.

Well, at least you got one right.

Exodus 20:8-11
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship.

Sure it does! Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

A holy convocation is a special "calling out." Interesting it's the same term for ekklesia!

If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (our Saturday). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday not as the “Christian Sabbath†but as a day to especially worship Jesus Christ.

Where does it say that anywhere in the Bible?

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

Oh, my! You do realize this was "after" the sabbath an Paul was scheduled to depart the next morning and walk 20 miles to Troas right?

A 20 mile hike on the "new" worship day? Really?

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

I wonder if you realize how this verse actually aides the case for sabbath keeping? The Corinthians were to lay in store things so they could be collected on the "first day of the week" and not on the sabbath. That means on the supposed "new sabbath", Sunday, was actually a day set aside for collecting and laying things up in store - not worship.

 

[RND]

Why Sunday if there is nothing in the New Testament that says "worship on Sunday"??

There is nothing in the New Testament that says "worship on Saturday" either ..... DUH !!!

So if nothing changes the sabbath to Sunday in the New Testament then shouldn't we at least heed to the plain instruction of the Son of God, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God?" Duh?

 

[Brother Lionel]

Why Sunday if there is nothing in the New Testament that says "worship on Sunday"??

There is nothing in the New Testament that says "worship on Saturday" either ..... DUH !!!

Ok so the OT says "rest and worship on the seventh day". Jesus, Paul and even non-Jews kept the seventh day. But the bible (from Genesis to Revelation) says nothing about Sunday - the first day. Which one would you think is the true disignated day of rest and worship? Because we just cant say "everyday is the Sabbath Day" because its not. God sanctified one day, not seven. So which one you'd think would be the day of holiness and sanctity in which we rest and worship?

 

[RND]

^

We keep the nine commandments and keep each and every day holy.


..... .....

Which day do you rest on? Where in the Bible can I find that other days were blessed and made Holy by the Lord?

 

[Brother Lionel]

^Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

While the above scripture exhorts believers to meet and fellowship regularly, it does not mention it has to be done on a Sabbath or Sunday or any other specific day.

That's correct it doesn't. Can we at least stipulate that it says nothing, nothing, about the solemnity of the sabbath being changed to Sunday?

Colossians 2:16-17
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

That's right, let no one judge you if you want to observe a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day. In other words, don't let those spouting the philosophy of man and their vain deceit cause you not to worship Jesus. Tell me something are the Ten Commandments "philosophy and vain deceit" or "the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ?"

[quote:9yvngk71]Romans 14:5
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

Is the word sabbath found anywhere in Romans 14? Tell me something are the Ten Commandments "doubtful disputations?"

These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God.

No they don't! These scriptures only are made clear to someone who has their mind made up! :D

Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other.

It does? Tell me, does the Bible say anything about judging adultery, or stealing? Coveting? Good Lord! 1Cr 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Sabbath-keeping is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day.

Well, at least you got one right.

Exodus 20:8-11
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship.

Sure it does! Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

A holy convocation is a special "calling out." Interesting it's the same term for ekklesia!

If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (our Saturday). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday not as the “Christian Sabbath†but as a day to especially worship Jesus Christ.

Where does it say that anywhere in the Bible?

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

Oh, my! You do realize this was "after" the sabbath an Paul was scheduled to depart the next morning and walk 20 miles to Troas right?

A 20 mile hike on the "new" worship day? Really?

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

I wonder if you realize how this verse actually aides the case for sabbath keeping? The Corinthians were to lay in store things so they could be collected on the "first day of the week" and not on the sabbath. That means on the supposed "new sabbath", Sunday, was actually a day set aside for collecting and laying things up in store - not worship.[/quote:9yvngk71]

:amen

 

[Tina]

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LOL!! You deny that the NT refers to the Ten Commandments!!

Tell me did God refer to the Ten Commandments here?:
Exd 20:6 - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

He didnt say "keep my ten commandments" He just said commandments, like the NT says. Did He refer to the Ten Commandments here or not?? Or how about here??:

Exd 24:12 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

So what about here?? Why didnt God say "and the ten commandments"?? He just said commadments, why?? The excuse that the NT doesnt specifically say "ten commandments" is a weak one and quite frankly, it makes you guys look like you are in denial...

It's pointless of you to keep harping on the Old Testament ... I asked you to show me NEW Testament verses where the term "ten commandments" is mentioned. There's a world of difference between the OLD and NEW Testament where commandments are concernced. In the NEW Testament, we have NEW laws such as BAPTISM and observance of holy communion (bread and wine). These additional two are important commandments that are nowhere found in the Old Testament... The Old Testament laws are NOT the same as the New Testament laws. The "commandments" mentioned in OT are NOT the same as the "commandments" mentioned in the NT. Even when Paul referred to the OLD Testament "ten" commandments in 2 Corinthians 3, he called it the "ministry of death and condemnation" that was "fading away" ...

How do you know that Im not?? :D The NT clearly teaches us that the ceremonial laws are abolished, and most of these OT laws dont even apply to us today (like incest) so it's not only practical to live by these laws, but it is also logical.

Which NT verse would that be ?

There were four sets of laws in the OT; The Moral Divine Laws (The Ten Commandments), the ceremonial laws, the health laws, and the civil laws. Now, this thread, of course, is addressing an issue with the moral law. If it is still a sin to serve and worship a false god, make an image to bow down to, use the name of the Lord to do whatever you want, take a man's life, lie to a man, have intercourse with someone other than your wife/husband, and to dishonor your parents; then we have issues because thats not all of the moral law. The NT is clear that the ceremonial laws were abolished because Christ is now our Passover and High Priest.

Which NT verse would that be ?

The NT says nothing about the abolishment of the health laws because we are told to be holy in all of our conduct, that includes what we eat, what we drink, and what we consume into our bodies as far as medicinal products.

Which NT verse would that be ?

The civil laws are still intact because we are a civilized people, and some parts of our justice system still practice some of the laws that God established back them. Could you imagine a government without civil laws?? Precisely, which is why it is common sense that the civil laws are still intact.

Which NT verse would that be ?

So even though Jesus and Paul kept the Sabbath, and the NT says nothing about the first day of the week being a holy day, you still defend Sunday??? Interesting....

What makes you think I defend Sunday ? .... As a matter of fact, I defend any day or every day ..... Because the NT says NOTHING about Saturday being the holy day either ....


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[Tina]

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Which day do you rest on? Where in the Bible can I find that other days were blessed and made Holy by the Lord?

Are you trying to say that Sundays to Fridays are cursed ?? .......


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[Brother Lionel]

It's pointless of you to keep harping on the Old Testament

I think this is where the root of the problem is. I think the reason behind us going back and forth is that you regard the Old Testament as dead weight. Every scripture that we have provided from the Old Testament has been downplayed with the same statement - "thats the Old Testament, show me New Testament scripture". So lets back track a bit. How valid or invalid do you believe the Old Testament is?

 

[Tina]

How is this video of any relevance to the topic on hand ? ......

Did you watch it?

Of course I watched .... it was interesting though ........ :D

Catholic bashing is not allowed anywhere in the forum.
Let's just respect one another and stay on topic please !

Since when is the truth considered bashing?

And the "truth" about the Catholic Church and Pope is relevant to this topic how ?? .....

Tell me this. If you won't hear the truth others have offered what makes me think you won't hear me either?

what "truths" ...... ???? ....... :nag :D .....


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[Tina]

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So if nothing changes the sabbath to Sunday in the New Testament then shouldn't we at least heed to the plain instruction of the Son of God, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God?" Duh?

The Son of God also said this :

Matthew 12:5
Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are BLAMELESS ?

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[Tina]

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I think this is where the root of the problem is. I think the reason behind us going back and forth is that you regard the Old Testament as dead weight. Every scripture that we have provided from the Old Testament has been downplayed with the same statement - "thats the Old Testament, show me New Testament scripture". So lets back track a bit. How valid or invalid do you believe the Old Testament is?

It's valid or invalid based on what the NT says .....


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