Dorothy Mae
Member
What does that have to do with the discussion?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Why The Experts Disagree.
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Dorothy Mae
Member
Especially if they insist everyone else before them was in the dark.
Ok .
I have watched star trek and time travel movies and they look at local events like you mentioned.
For the shadow of the sundial to move the whole cosmos had to move. Not just our solar system but everything.
We are in the lounge discussing end times. At the end of time stars fall from heaven and Fire burns stuff up. Time will be no more.
Established science will end. So in my lowly redneck mind I see a tremendous reversal at the end of time being no more.
Straighten me out.
eddif
Dorothy Mae
Member
Why couldn’t the sun dial alone change? Why not a local event?
That expression in the Bible doesn’t mean celestial bodies but is a metaphor for something else. It is described of events leading up
to God’s judgement on a people.
I think Science will continue forever. Why should it end?
Did I do so or is more needed?
During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. It's not that God let everything happen, but that of the Israelites disobedience against God that has allowed all the destructions.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
The word translated "evil" is from a Hebrew word kelalah that means adversary, affliction, calamity, distress and misery. This is what God has created and puts on those who He has cursed for their rebellion against Him so they know "I AM" in all sovereignty, Deuteronomy 27:11-26.
Isa 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
It was during Hezekiah's sickness and recovery.
Thank you for answering this question. So many believe the OT hasn't anything to do with the NT, especially within prophecies of the Prophets that relate to the latter end of days.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Except this time Jesus said the Kingdom of God would be taken away from them. So how can it be God’s holy city if the Kingdom of God is no longer with Israel? That was, of course, my point.
Dorothy Mae
Member
The OT prophesies about the latter days are repeated in the New Testament and I agree with you and am surprised many don’t see this. Thank you for pointing this out.
Dorothy Mae
Member
The sun dial went backwards. Human activities did not shift into reverse. Time didn’t reverse. Just the sun dial reversed. Do you see what I mean?
Exeter gave a phenomenal list. Those who have read my book on Revelation that is found under the End Times forum have seen how many OT scriptures I include in my writings.
Exeter: Indeed the originator of this list put in a lot of time to formulate this list. You seem to think it's important to the study of Rev., so I have a few qestions for you. In what way has it helped you to better understand.....say the prophecy of the "seven seals".
Do you understand when in time the courtroom scene in chapters 4&5 took place in heaven?
Do you understand why the Father wrote the book sealed with seven seals at the foundation of the world?
Do you understand the responsibility the Father placed on Jesus after the moment He(Jesus) was found worthy to receive the book and to open it's seals?
Do you understand at what point in time Jesus opened the first Seal?
God will not always be in the third heaven as when all things are finished here on earth after the return of Christ God will make new again this present heaven and earth then He will usher down the New Jerusalem (Spiritual Kingdom of God). God will then be with us as the tabernacle of God is with men and He will dwell with us and we with Him forever. For now the kingdom of God is within us as we are made kings and priest of God as we reign with Christ here on earth until the seventh trumpet sounds and then the nations (kingdoms) of this world become the nations (kingdoms) of God and of Christ and He will be our God and we His people forever.
The tabernacle of God within the New Jerusalem is not that which is made by hand as neither is the New Jerusalem. When we are given spiritual bodies (glorified bodies) then we will see all things of God that are spiritual for in our mortal bodies we can not even perceive what the New Jerusalem will look like just as we can not even know what Christ looks like, but know we will be just like Him in our glorified bodies.
Third Heaven - This is where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell plus the very breath of just men dwell as when we die it is that breath that returns back to God. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God (John 3:13).
Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 5:10 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. (We are the Spiritual Kingdom of God on earth)
Rev 11: 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (We are that Spiritual kingdom of God while here on earth as we reign with Him over the nations)
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
The sun causes the sun dial to move as we see the shadow moving. A sundial can not operate without the sun and in that verse we see God moving time back ten degrees. It was God that reversed time for ten degrees backwards. Who are we to question the miracles of God for His purpose. Ten degrees on a sundial is roughly 40 minutes.
In post #18 eddif gave you two scriptures pointing out how God can either change time or hold it still in place.
2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
This present heaven and earth will be renewed in order for the New Jerusalem to be established here on earth.
Isaiah 38:8 kjv
8. Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
Two witnesses he sees the sundial and he sees the sun position change in the sky.
Deuteronomy 19:15 kjv
15. One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
Here is an example of a concept in different context areas (2 witnesses).
1 Timothy 5:17 kjv
17. Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
eddif
Metaphysics is something beyond the physical.
Parable of sower:
Seed is Word of God , ground is mens hearts.
The seed exists. The spiritual Word exists, and is related, but on a higher level. (PaRDeS)
Metaphor is kind of similar, but dine mostly with words. I would think some metaphor are serious concepts.
eddif
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Exeter
Member
I am an exponent of Systematic Biblical Theology so I have the whole body of material covering all the Books of the Bible at my disposal and have acquainted myself with much that pertains to the Book of Revelation. I make a point of asking the Holy Spirit for guidance in all that I study and discuss, and the Spirit has led me to understand that some of the things of God are beyond human comprehension.
The Seven Sealed Scroll has been opened. John saw it opened and wrote about what he saw which is what God intended for him to do so that we could know what lies ahead. In one sense the Book of Revelation is like a department store in that if you go to it regularly you learn where everything is, and you get a feel for the layout so that you know what you will find in each different section, often with the help of a numbered store plan.
Bible-believers know that God communicates through visions and dreams, and discussions of these visions and dreams involve much examination of their symbolic imagery.
Will any of us ever actually get to see Jesus as the Lamb as John did in his vision? We see such metaphorical things in our minds, and accept them in our spirit as God intends, so if God wants us to see and be in the presence of Jesus as the Lamb of God He will make it so.
That's all for now. I would like to come back to the other points raised, but sufficient to say that we know from the opening of the Seven Seals that Conquest, Conflict, Commodities, Carnage, Complaint, Catastrophe, & Clarion are integral to the Perfect Completion of the Divine Plan.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Amen!! Very exciting!! Some of that already is.
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Dorothy Mae
Member
Moving the sun dial backwards doesn’t mean time and all human activity rewound. What we know is the sun dial moved backwards. That is it. There is a problem with literally thinking he saw the sun move backwards and that is man cannot look at the sun directly, too strong. But I won’t press that point. In any case he didn’t see human activity reversed and start again. That is what time going backwards means.
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