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Why wasn't Jesus eternally tormented?

God is a just judge who MUST punish those who refuse the bail (Jesus). Jesus fulfilled the law, but took the wrath of God on earth....However; because he fulfilled the law, he was INNOCENT when attending his court case. He had never broken the law, but was still punished for the crimes that he did not commit (our crimes). God will always love us, but cannot (as a just perfect judge) rescue us from our crimes. He must punish us if we do not accept his method of bail.

Don't ever let someone tell you God is evil, wicked, or unjust for sending people to hell. He HAS to.

Do you understand how long forever is,so again NOTHING,justifies eternal torture..............As EVIL as satan is,even he don't deserve eternal torture.....A loving Father would not do that to His children,and nowhere in scripture is it written that He will....Yea the choice is yours,and that choice is life or death..........

Can you agree that those who don't go to heaven go to hell? Can you agree that the wicked can't, and won't ever enter God's kingdom?

You need to understand that the wicked will not be redeemed after they die. You also quoted Rev 21:8, which does not help your position in anyway. You have unwillingly given way to the fact that the wicked will be in hell. A hell that Jesus says will NEVER end. The bible never says these people will be pardoned, it never says they will be rescued from it. It says they will be cast into a lake of fire (that will never be quenched), and like satan and the false prophet, be tortured day in and day out.

Tell me, what happens to these people when they are cast into a never ending fire? Do they lay there in a coma? Do they simply burn up and fail to exist? Of course, I will wan't scripture that specifically says these things.
 
God is a just judge who MUST punish those who refuse the bail (Jesus). Jesus fulfilled the law, but took the wrath of God on earth....However; because he fulfilled the law, he was INNOCENT when attending his court case. He had never broken the law, but was still punished for the crimes that he did not commit (our crimes). God will always love us, but cannot (as a just perfect judge) rescue us from our crimes. He must punish us if we do not accept his method of bail.

Don't ever let someone tell you God is evil, wicked, or unjust for sending people to hell. He HAS to.

Do you understand how long forever is,so again NOTHING,justifies eternal torture..............As EVIL as satan is,even he don't deserve eternal torture.....A loving Father would not do that to His children,and nowhere in scripture is it written that He will....Yea the choice is yours,and that choice is life or death..........

Can you agree that those who don't go to heaven go to hell? Can you agree that the wicked can't, and won't ever enter God's kingdom?

You need to understand that the wicked will not be redeemed after they die. You also quoted Rev 21:8, which does not help your position in anyway. You have unwillingly given way to the fact that the wicked will be in hell. A hell that Jesus says will NEVER end. The bible never says these people will be pardoned, it never says they will be rescued from it. It says they will be cast into a lake of fire (that will never be quenched), and like satan and the false prophet, be tortured day in and day out.

Tell me, what happens to these people when they are cast into a never ending fire? Do they lay there in a coma? Do they simply burn up and fail to exist? Of course, I will wan't scripture that specifically says these things.

The people who enter into the lake of fire will simply cease to exist,Rev 21:8 makes this perfectly clear

Revelation 21:8"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

What does death mean?As I said earlier,even satan shall be totally destroyed

Ezekiel 28:19
"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."
 
God is a just judge who MUST punish those who refuse the bail (Jesus). Jesus fulfilled the law, but took the wrath of God on earth....However; because he fulfilled the law, he was INNOCENT when attending his court case. He had never broken the law, but was still punished for the crimes that he did not commit (our crimes). God will always love us, but cannot (as a just perfect judge) rescue us from our crimes. He must punish us if we do not accept his method of bail.

Don't ever let someone tell you God is evil, wicked, or unjust for sending people to hell. He HAS to.

Do you understand how long forever is,so again NOTHING,justifies eternal torture..............As EVIL as satan is,even he don't deserve eternal torture.....A loving Father would not do that to His children,and nowhere in scripture is it written that He will....Yea the choice is yours,and that choice is life or death..........

Can you agree that those who don't go to heaven go to hell? Can you agree that the wicked can't, and won't ever enter God's kingdom?

You need to understand that the wicked will not be redeemed after they die. You also quoted Rev 21:8, which does not help your position in anyway. You have unwillingly given way to the fact that the wicked will be in hell. A hell that Jesus says will NEVER end. The bible never says these people will be pardoned, it never says they will be rescued from it. It says they will be cast into a lake of fire (that will never be quenched), and like satan and the false prophet, be tortured day in and day out.

Tell me, what happens to these people when they are cast into a never ending fire? Do they lay there in a coma? Do they simply burn up and fail to exist? Of course, I will wan't scripture that specifically says these things.

The people who enter into the lake of fire will simply cease to exist,Rev 21:8 makes this perfectly clear

Revelation 21:8"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

What does death mean?As I said earlier,even satan shall be totally destroyed

Ezekiel 28:19
"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

No, that does not say they will cease to exist. It defines the second death as throwing people into the lake of fire. It makes no mention of ceasing to exist.

Revelation 20:10: "Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

The devil will be thrown into the lake of fire. If this is so, then he will in turn enter the second death. Correct? If the second death means that we cease to exist, then the devil wouldn't be tormented forever now would he?

Simply reverse the very verse you posted. which is the second death: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone. It is telling you that the second death is the act of being thrown into hell. A hell that is everlasting, that will never cease to exist.

If God can throw the devil into hell forever, then why would that not apply to the others who broke his law? You are contradicting yourself.
 
Can you agree that those who don't go to heaven go to hell? Can you agree that the wicked can't, and won't ever enter God's kingdom?

You need to understand that the wicked will not be redeemed after they die. You also quoted Rev 21:8, which does not help your position in anyway. You have unwillingly given way to the fact that the wicked will be in hell. A hell that Jesus says will NEVER end. The bible never says these people will be pardoned, it never says they will be rescued from it. It says they will be cast into a lake of fire (that will never be quenched), and like satan and the false prophet, be tortured day in and day out.

Tell me, what happens to these people when they are cast into a never ending fire? Do they lay there in a coma? Do they simply burn up and fail to exist? Of course, I will wan't scripture that specifically says these things.

The people who enter into the lake of fire will simply cease to exist,Rev 21:8 makes this perfectly clear

Revelation 21:8"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

What does death mean?As I said earlier,even satan shall be totally destroyed

Ezekiel 28:19
"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

No, that does not say they will cease to exist. It defines the second death as throwing people into the lake of fire. It makes no mention of ceasing to exist.

Revelation 20:10: "Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

The devil will be thrown into the lake of fire. If this is so, then he will in turn enter the second death. Correct? If the second death means that we cease to exist, then the devil wouldn't be tormented forever now would he?

Simply reverse the very verse you posted. which is the second death: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone. It is telling you that the second death is the act of being thrown into hell. A hell that is everlasting, that will never cease to exist.

If God can throw the devil into hell forever, then why would that not apply to the others who broke his law? You are contradicting yourself.

The act is to be thrown into the lake of fire,the result of which is the second death......What is your definition of death

Matthew 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
See All... says, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

What does destroy mean to you?
 
What part of death do you all not understand???
I'm not going to argue this point with you. The Bible proves me correct.
2 Thessalonians 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed -for our testimony to you was believed. [emphasis added]
Hell is both eternal and destructive.
Mark 9
43 "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
44 [where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.]
45 "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
46 [where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.]
47 "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, 48 where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED."
It is foolish to believe that our reward will be eternal, but their punishment will not.

Where does the Bible teach that all souls are innately eternal?
It says so where I've quoted.

Done here. Read the word.
 
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It is foolish to believe that our reward will be eternal, but their punishment will not.

The elephant in the room is that nobody behaves as if there is an actual eternal torture chamber that some of our loved ones could potentially end up in.

Just sixty seconds of torture is terrible.

It is the elephant in the room.

Therefore, it needs to be addressed.



"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:20

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." -Matthew 15:8
 
It is foolish to believe that our reward will be eternal, but their punishment will not.

The elephant in the room is that nobody behaves as if there is an actual eternal torture chamber that some of our loved ones could potentially end up in.

Just sixty seconds of torture is terrible.

It is the elephant in the room.

Therefore, it needs to be addressed.



"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:20

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." -Matthew 15:8
First of all we do not believe eternal means only a certain amount of time, we simply differ on the nature of the punishment, not the length. Those who face the eternal destruction of God will be cut off from God and his good creation for all eternity, there will be no return as some who hold the Universal Reconciliation view believe. Jonathan Edwards himself that this point is not enough to proof our view incorrect, you would both do well to understand this as it is a straw-man.

What your post highlights is the fact that truly I believe none of you actually believe this doctrine. This may seem like an arrogant accusation, but I say that because I don't think you've really thought it through. Here are a few reasons I think this.

1. You haven't thought through the idea of eternity. I've heard an analogy used once that goes like this.. Picture a single ant on the surface of the planet earth except the planet was made out of solid steel. Now this ant would walk the entire surface over and over again (granting of course the ant had infinite energy) until this gigantic ball of steel was ground to dust... And that would be the first day of eternity. Eternity NEVER ends.
2. Now combine that with the concept of torture, you rightly point out that 60 seconds of torture seems unbearable, yet forever and ever these people would exist in this state with no hope of relent or escape.. perhaps only to grow more indignant and thus have their punishment progressively increased.
3. Picture now someone you hold dear on this earth who does not affirm Jesus as Lord... they would be suffering this fate whilst you were supposedly enjoying heaven for the same duration. How can you POSSIBLY conceive the idea of happiness and joy with God while he in his sovereignty is torturing to the most extreme degree those in this life you possibly loved the most!?

Belief in the "traditional" position of hell is impossible as it is a concept that is beyond comprehension and God who endowed us with his image and as such feel compassion find this doctrine totally incompatible with 1) The nature of God.. his goodness and justice 2) Our own nature.. having some sense of justice and goodness and compassion for those who suffer 3) The idea that it is possible for there never to be a tear shed in heaven while the majority of humanity cries out in agony for all eternity for the torture that will not relent.

Also, if this were true and it goes unbelieved (in any sort of practical realistic way) and largely unwarned. How could God possible forgive Christians who neglect to warn their neighbor of this impending doom.

Thank God it is not true!
 
I think everyone should consider this analogy:

A just judge enters the court room, and takes a seat. After he takes comfort, he looks up at his impending trials. He notices that his beloved son has been arrested, and awaits trial for murder. With his heart sinking, he calls his son into the court room. He son enters, and takes a seat at the defense table. After what seemed to be an eternity, the Father (Judge) reaches his decision. He sentences his son to life in prison, for the premeditated murder of another human. With a tear in his eye, and sorrow in his heart, he smashes his gavel and makes his decision final. His son turns to his father and says, "Dad, don't you love me? Why would you send me to this place for the rest of my life?" The father turns and responds: "I will always love you, but you have broken the law. Because I am a just judge, you must go to this place, and be punished for what you have done. If I set you free, I would not be just, and your crimes would go unpunished."

God is a just judge who MUST punish those who refuse the bail (Jesus). Jesus fulfilled the law, but took the wrath of God on earth....However; because he fulfilled the law, he was INNOCENT when attending his court case. He had never broken the law, but was still punished for the crimes that he did not commit (our crimes). God will always love us, but cannot (as a just perfect judge) rescue us from our crimes. He must punish us if we do not accept his method of bail.

Don't ever let someone tell you God is evil, wicked, or unjust for sending people to hell. He HAS to.
No one here denies that the wicked are sent to Hell to receive the punishment due to them. What we differ on is the NATURE of that punishment in hell. Some affirm that both body and soul are forever preserved in a state of eternal torment that has not end or hope of return. Some affirm that both body and soul are destroyed in Hell, so that the wicked and all evil meet it's ultimate end in the second death.

Death was the punishment promised by the transgressing of the law, from Genesis to Revelation. That is what I believe God's decree is of those who sin against him.. that they are worthy of death.. that the wages of sin is death.. that the soul who sins shall die.. that sin when it is fully grown gives birth to death...

What if our nations performed justice in a way you believe God will one day perform it? What if we instead of simply putting you in prison or putting you to death.. decided instead to torture you for the rest of your life. What an INDECENCY people would think, for the fallen man even understands the dignity that a human life possesses. I do not believe that God would torture men and women who bear his image forever and ever and call that justice.

Justice is not about THE WORST PUNISHMENT POSSIBLE, it is about doing what is right.. which sometimes means that the right thing to do is to punish in proportion to the wrongs committed.

Our God IS Justice.
 
3. Picture now someone you hold dear on this earth who does not affirm Jesus as Lord... they would be suffering this fate whilst you were supposedly enjoying heaven for the same duration. How can you POSSIBLY conceive the idea of happiness and joy with God while he in his sovereignty is torturing to the most extreme degree those in this life you possibly loved the most!?

Belief in the "traditional" position of hell is impossible as it is a concept that is beyond comprehension and God who endowed us with his image and as such feel compassion find this doctrine totally incompatible with 1) The nature of God.. his goodness and justice 2) Our own nature.. having some sense of justice and goodness and compassion for those who suffer 3) The idea that it is possible for there never to be a tear shed in heaven while the majority of humanity cries out in agony for all eternity for the torture that will not relent.
Looking at your argument more closely, it follows then that since unbelievers will be punished in hell for at least some duration (I believe we are in agreement there), then believers cannot be happy for that duration.

We could say that it will be for only 60s but that is 60s that the believer will not experience joy in heaven. Now we must also consider that it could be a trillion trillion years, which in the light of eternity is literally nothing (eternity minus a trillion trillion is still eternity). So it follows then that at least some believers would not be happy for at least a trillion trillion years. I could go on but I believe the point is made.

So this simply cannot be an argument against eternal punishment in hell.
 
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The elephant in the room is that nobody behaves as if there is an actual eternal torture chamber that some of our loved ones could potentially end up in.

Just sixty seconds of torture is terrible.

It is the elephant in the room.

Therefore, it needs to be addressed.



"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:20

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." -Matthew 15:8


So tell me how you are proving heaven and God exist by your actions?

Matthew 13:44 The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.


“The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”
Rules for Radicals, Saul Alinsky
 
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3. Picture now someone you hold dear on this earth who does not
affirm Jesus as Lord... they would be suffering this fate whilst you were
supposedly enjoying heaven for the same duration. How can you POSSIBLY conceive
the idea of happiness and joy with God while he in his sovereignty is torturing
to the most extreme degree those in this life you possibly loved the
most!?

Are you saying as long as someone is in hell we in heaven won't be able to delight in God?
 
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I do not believe the Scriptures teach that the lost will spend an eternity in hell. I will not give all my reasons in detail in this post, but I will offer the following:

1. The idea of an eternal hell is at odds with the general thrust of a specifically restorative sense of justice we see in the Bible;

2. Some texts which describe things like "smoke of their torment" rises forever need to be interpreted taking account of other texts. More specifically, there is at least one Old Testament text where we know that reference to "smoke rising forever" is not to be taken literally - the prophecy in Isaiah about destruction of the nation of Edom. Last time I checked, there is no smoke rising now over Edom. It is time for us to be a little more sophisticated in our reading and recognize that Biblical writers were aware of literary devices like metaphor, allegory, and exaggeration.

3. We need to recognize that fire consumes that which is put into it.

4. There is at least the possibility that, for some anyway, the notion of an eternal hell appeals to our less than Christlike desire to see others "get theirs". Now I recognize this is not a particularly strong argument as it entails speculation about motivation. One could equally argue that we Christians "invented" eternal life precisely because of a deep wish to continue existing. And I would challenge that by saying that while it is true that I want to live forever, that wish does not necessarily mean that eternal life is not real.

Anyway, I suspect I will provide more detailed arguments in later posts.
 
No one here denies that the wicked are sent to Hell to receive the punishment due to them. What we differ on is the NATURE of that punishment in hell. Some affirm that both body and soul are forever preserved in a state of eternal torment that has not end or hope of return. Some affirm that both body and soul are destroyed in Hell, so that the wicked and all evil meet it's ultimate end in the second death.

Death was the punishment promised by the transgressing of the law, from Genesis to Revelation. That is what I believe God's decree is of those who sin against him.. that they are worthy of death.. that the wages of sin is death.. that the soul who sins shall die.. that sin when it is fully grown gives birth to death...

What if our nations performed justice in a way you believe God will one day perform it? What if we instead of simply putting you in prison or putting you to death.. decided instead to torture you for the rest of your life. What an INDECENCY people would think, for the fallen man even understands the dignity that a human life possesses. I do not believe that God would torture men and women who bear his image forever and ever and call that justice.

Justice is not about THE WORST PUNISHMENT POSSIBLE, it is about doing what is right.. which sometimes means that the right thing to do is to punish in proportion to the wrongs committed.

Our God IS Justice.

"Eye for an eye"

So in your eyes rejecting Christ and embracing sin/satan is justly punished by annihilation.

In your opinion that is the right amount of punishment.


To be honest with you I have never considered annihilation as punishment.
 
Looking at your argument more closely, it follows then that since unbelievers will be punished in hell for at least some duration (I believe we are in agreement there), then believers cannot be happy for that duration.
Actually if you read the account in Revelation you find that we come to the new creation.. not just some "heaven" that is separate from what is described there. Heaven comes down to earth and they become one.

Also we arrive in this new creation with tears streaming down our faces..

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:4 (ESV)

Why won' there be any more mourning? Or Crying? Or death? Or Pain? FOR the former things have passed away.

I provided a definition to this Greek word earlier but I will provide it again.

13.93 παράγωc; παρέρχομαιd; ἀπέρχομαιb; ἐξέρχομαιb: to go out of existence—‘to cease to exist, to pass away, to cease.’

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (158). New York: United Bible Societies.

The pain.. suffering.. mourning.. and ultimately death will be no more because evil will have been completely destroyed, this isn't saying that pain, mourning, crying and death will be no more because the former things were presently being tormented in hell. Quite the opposite.

Also, God's triumph over sin and suffering will not be complete in this way... as we can reason that there would indeed be MORE sin and suffering on that side of eternity than there ever was on earth. God hadn't defeated suffering and sin, just simply contained it to a certain place.

We could say that it will be for only 60s but that is 60s that the believer will not experience joy in heaven.
The events in Revelation 21 come DIRECTLY after the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20 where the former things meet their end in the second death.. the lake of fire. There will be much joy in the new heavens and new earth with no mourning past the initial moments where Jesus will wipe away our tears.

Now we must also consider that it could be a trillion trillion years, which in the light of eternity is literally nothing (eternity minus a trillion trillion is still eternity). So it follows then that at least some believers would not be happy for at least a trillion trillion years. I could go on but I believe the point is made.
It will not be a "trillion years" judgement is ultimately realized in the main punishment rendered which is death, some will receive to say it one way, a more severe form of a death sentence.

So this simply cannot be an argument against eternal punishment in hell.
It's absolutely a valid argument for any rational and emotionally healthy human being!

“That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell” St. Thomas Aquinas

“The blessed in the kingdom of heaven will see the punishments of the damned, in order that their bliss be more delightful for them.” St. Thomas Aquinas

These quotes demonstrate absolutely horrendous conclusions of such a belief, to think that human beings would delight at the thought of billions of other human beings made in the image of God being tortured. The only healthy response to suffering is compassion and sympathy, atheists have good reason to object and say that only sociopaths will be in heaven. For that is what it would take for such a thing to not absolutely crush a person with grief.
 
3. Picture now someone you hold dear on this earth who does not
affirm Jesus as Lord... they would be suffering this fate whilst you were
supposedly enjoying heaven for the same duration. How can you POSSIBLY conceive
the idea of happiness and joy with God while he in his sovereignty is torturing
to the most extreme degree those in this life you possibly loved the
most!?

Are you saying as long as someone is in hell we in heaven won't be able to delight in God?
If I were to torture people whom you loved and then told you to celebrate, who difficult would that be? Just using some common sense....
 
"Eye for an eye"

So in your eyes rejecting Christ and embracing sin/satan is justly punished by annihilation.

In your opinion that is the right amount of punishment.


To be honest with you I have never considered annihilation as punishment.
Let me demonstrate how irrational this claim is.

Our country as well as others holds Capital Punishment.. being put to death as the HIGHEST form of punishment we have. To contrast that, the only countries who torture people as a punishment are savage brutish uncivilized nations that largely do not exist anymore.

To say being put to death is not really a punishment is frankly quite ridiculous... as it is realized not only in the Bible but in our culture as the TOP punishment.

What the "traditional" view has conceptualized as a "punishment" is no where recognized as exacting justice in either the Bible or civilized society in any kind of real life situation. No one is going to torture you for stealing, nor in ancient Israel were people tortured for crimes they committed, the most severe it would get was that they would be stoned which resulted in death. It's an idea of justice and punishment that has no grounding in reality or any biblical idea of what that actually entails. As if the suffering a person for eternity puts right what was done wrong...
 
So when the Bible says GOD ALONE HAS IMMORTALITY, you say... No actually all souls are immortal...
Got a reference on that? Because I sure don't see it anywhere. On the other hand, I do see these ...
Ecclesiastes 12 NASB
5 Furthermore, men are afraid of a high place and of terrors on the road; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags himself along, and the caperberry is ineffective. For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street. [emphasis added]

Matthew 19
29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life. [emphasis added]

Matthew 25
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
All souls are eternal. Their fate is determined by their faith in this life. One goes to eternal life, the other to eternal death in the eternal fire, death being separation from God. This is basic stuff. Why do you want to pervert it?
 
3. Picture now someone you hold dear on this earth who does not
affirm Jesus as Lord... they would be suffering this fate whilst you were
supposedly enjoying heaven for the same duration. How can you POSSIBLY conceive
the idea of happiness and joy with God while he in his sovereignty is torturing
to the most extreme degree those in this life you possibly loved the
most!?

Are you saying as long as someone is in hell we in heaven won't be able to delight in God?
If I were to torture people whom you loved and then told you to celebrate, who difficult would that be? Just using some common sense....

Based on your reply I take it you don't believe I am using common sense when I am think about being in the presence of God and the worship due Him.

So if God tells you to celebrate His greatness, you will aruge with Him?
 
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