Why would Paul fear of losing his salvation

[chessman]

So you mean that Christ's death on the cross is all for a crown(s) or rewards?(a material thing)?????

No. Which is why I didn't say that I thought Christ's death on the cross is all for a crown (material thing). That would be a rather silly thought wouldn't it?

But I do mean that Paul's not fearful of losing his salvation and posted more than ample evidence on that subject. And I mean that in the 1 Cor 9:27 verse, Paul's talking about the subject of his imperishable crown of apostleship, not talking about losing his salvation.

 

[chessman]

Long long post, brother.

Yep. You asked for comments on your post. I gave some.

Care to comment on points 1 or 2 of my reply to your request that I said in my long post?
1. “The verse doesn’t say Paul feared for his salvation”.
2. If Paul really did “fear of losing his salvation” then why did he say otherwise in his multiple statements such as:

Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God…​

I know you like short posts, but really? No comment at all from you on these two points? That's a little to far toward the condensed side, in my opinion.

The word MOREOVER ties what he just said to what he is about to say.

The word moreover literally means "in addtion to" which is what I said. I didn't say it was a 'brand new subject", nor did I imply it, nor do I think it. But I did say it was an addtional topic to the one he was discussing in verse 27 of Chapter 9. Which it is. You've provided no evidence otherwise (other than to imply my post was to long) yet in the next breath imply that I made only the one point of how Paul created a natural chapter break (which he did) by his use of the conjunction "moreover", in addition to.

I'll try to meet your standards with regard to my choice of post length better in the future:

Idolatry, and sexual immorality are salvation issues that will disqualify a Christian from inheriting the kingdom of God.

This can not be refuted!
JLB

Wrong

 

[jonahmano]

Yep. You asked for comments on your post. I gave some.
JLB said: ↑
Idolatry, and sexual immorality are salvation issues that will disqualify a Christian from inheriting the kingdom of God.

This can not be refuted!
JLB

Wrong

So are you giving license to sin?

 

[jonahmano]

No. Which is why I didn't say that I thought Christ's death on the cross is all for a crown (material thing). That would be a rather silly thought wouldn't it?

But I do mean that Paul's not fearful of losing his salvation and posted more than ample evidence on that subject. And I mean that in the 1 Cor 9:27 verse, Paul's talking about the subject of his imperishable crown of apostleship, not talking about losing his salvation.

Your argument of Paul's concern of losing apostleship is also weak. Do you recall Paul saying I don't want to know anything except Christ crucified? I don't think Paul was in a competition for crowns.

 

[JLB]

Chessman said -

The fact is/remains, that his topic; Paul’s work in the Lord as a called (commanded even) Lord’s apostle, is mentioned so often, it's all over that chapter. Similar to the Title of this thread being the topic of discussion (and you missing that), Paul's Topic is titled by most translations.
In verse 19, Paul says this:
19 For although I am free from all people, I have enslaved myself to all, in order that I may gain more.

Gain more what? Gain more Salvation or reward? Reward/crowns, brother, is the answer. Again, Paul’s still clearly on the topic of his working in the Lord as an apostle, working toward receiving an imperishable crown which he mentions again in verse 25 (right before the verse 27 in question). They clearly go together.

The answer is more souls for Christ. ie; Salvation Win more souls!

Paul is speaking of salvation here, not rewards for himself. Paul wants to win more souls!

Read on with me Brother -

20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.


Sorry Brother, I believe you missed it.

Paul was about salvation, not winning rewards for himself.

The subject is salvation.

Chapter 10 uses old testament examples to teach us this truth.

Please reconsider what I have posted.

Blessings to you. JLB

 

[chessman]

Do you recall Paul saying I don't want to know anything except Christ crucified?

yes. And why did he say that?

1 Corinthians 2:5 in order that your faith would not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.​

Pretty powerful stuff there.

Your argument of Paul's concern of losing apostleship is also weak.

you mean weak as compared to the 'argument' you presented for whether Paul feared losing his salvation or not? I don't think so.

I don't think Paul was in a competition for crowns.

Okay. I believe that you don't think he was.

However, I think he says that he was. Here's why:

1 Corinthians 9:24-26 Do you not know that those who run in the stadium all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. And everyone who competes exercises self-control in all things. Thus those do so in order that they may receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. I run in this way,
​

But you know, that's a pretty weak argument for Paul talking about competing for a crown, as compared to your argument for Paul fearing loss of his salvation.

 

[JLB]

yes. And why did he say that?

1 Corinthians 2:5 in order that your faith would not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.​

Pretty powerful stuff there.

you mean weak as compared to the 'argument' you presented for whether Paul feared losing his salvation or not? I don't think so.


Okay. I believe that you don't think he was.

However, I think he says that he was. Here's why:

1 Corinthians 9:24-26 Do you not know that those who run in the stadium all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. And everyone who competes exercises self-control in all things. Thus those do so in order that they may receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. I run in this way,
​

But you know, that's a pretty weak argument for Paul talking about competing for a crown, as compared to your argument for Paul fearing loss of his salvation.

I agree. It is

 

[JLB]

Salvation is the issue!

 

[chessman]

Paul was about salvation, not winning rewards for himself.

I never said Paul was not about salvation. But I did say verse 9:27 wasn't. Still do.

 

[JLB]

yes. And why did he say that?

1 Corinthians 2:5 in order that your faith would not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.​

Pretty powerful stuff there.

you mean weak as compared to the 'argument' you presented for whether Paul feared losing his salvation or not? I don't think so.


Okay. I believe that you don't think he was.

However, I think he says that he was. Here's why:

1 Corinthians 9:24-26 Do you not know that those who run in the stadium all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. And everyone who competes exercises self-control in all things. Thus those do so in order that they may receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. I run in this way,
​

But you know, that's a pretty weak argument for Paul talking about competing for a crown, as compared to your argument for Paul fearing loss of his salvation.

The crown he and we are competing for is salvation.

The crown of Life.


12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12


JLB

 

[JLB]

I never said Paul was not about salvation. But I did say verse 9:27 wasn't. Still do.

Your still wrong!

But I love you anyway.

JLB

 

[chessman]

The crown he and we are competing for

well I agree that we run vigorously to share the Gospel with all who will listen for their salvation, not ours. And if we stop running that race by stoping our sharing the Gospel with others as we are commanded to, we become disqualified from our crowns (our prizes), not disqualified from our salvation.

Look. If you think Paul was fearful of losing his salvation, then post the Scripture.

Do you personally even think Paul feared losing his salvation ? I doubt you do. But maybe, based on your replies in this thread.

 

[Eugene]

I've read through many of the answers. Is adultery the criterion for disqualification from the kingdom? What of all other sin? Can we just sin that grace may abound? Please tell me the sin you commit you can just go around repenting for all day? Paul knew the answer to his destination; I have no idea why we can't also. Oops, I sped one mile an hour over the speed limit and forgot to confess it.

2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 

[JLB]

well I agree that we run vigorously to share the Gospel with all who will listen for their salvation, not ours. And if we stop running that race by stoping our sharing the Gospel with others as we are commanded to, we become disqualified from our crowns (our prizes), not disqualified from our salvation.

Look. If you think Paul was fearful of losing his salvation, then post the Scripture.

Do you personally even think Paul feared losing his salvation ? I doubt you do. But maybe, based on your replies in this thread.

Let's try it again.

Key verse - And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.

We for an imperishable crown.

It's called the crown of Life.

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Are you trying to teach this Forum that Paul is somehow excluded from this precept that James teaches us?

If you are then don't !

Paul, like all of us must endure temptation and endure to the end.

To be approved for the crown of Life!

That's the message Paul is presenting to the Corinthian Church, and to us, to whom the ends of the ages has come upon.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I've read through many of the answers. Is adultery the criterion for disqualification from the kingdom? What of all other sin? Can we just sin that grace may abound? Please tell me the sin you commit you can just go around repenting for all day? Paul knew the answer to his destination; I have no idea why we can't also. Oops, I sped one mile an hour over the speed limit and forgot to confess it.

2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Amen. I like that one.

Kept the faith.

That is what it comes down to.

Turn away from the faith in Christ for salvation, don't expect to receive the crown of life.

Don't expect to be approved.

Study the word "practice".

Those who practice righteousness are righteous.

Those who practice unrighteousness are unrighteous.


JLB

 

[chessman]

Are you trying to teach this Forum that Paul is somehow excluded from this precept that James teaches us?

No! But what does James' proclamation have to do with Paul's fear of losing his salvation? Nothing.

Are you trying to teach this Forum that there's a competion for the 'prize of salvation' that's awarded to only one person?

Do you not know that those who run in the stadium all run, but one receives the prize?
​

Are you trying to teach this Forum that Chapter 9 is about Paul's salvation when he specifically says it's about his reward for his voluntary proclamation of the Gospel as an Apostle?

For if I proclaim the gospel, ...voluntarily, I have a reward, ​

Are you trying to teach this Forum that Chapter 9 is about Paul's salvation when he specifically says it's about his winning other people's salvation?

What then is my reward?

I proclaim the gospel,... in order that I may gain more.
gain those outside the law.
gain the weak.​

What, gain more personal salvation? No, that's antithetical toward the Gospel. Saved is saved.

You trying to teach that Paul gains more salvation than the rest if us do?

​

No brother, I love you too but you are wrong about verse 9:27 being about Paul's fear of losing his salvation. And you've not really even made a case for your position from within the context of chapter 9. That's because you can't. It's not there.

I could do what you've done and 'show' the crown discussed in 1 Cor 9 is really not the crown of life, but rather the crown of thorns/death.

Mark 15:17 And they put a purple cloak on him, and after weaving a crown of thorns they placed it on him.

But that's a pretty bad way to study the Bible. Paul had a message within Chapter 9 (and yes an additional message into chapter 10). But to assert Paul's chapter 9 "crown" is also James' is no better than trying to assert that it's Mark's.

 

[Eugene]

Amen. I like that one.

Kept the faith.

That is what it comes down to.

Turn away from the faith in Christ for salvation, don't expect to receive the crown of life.

Don't expect to be approved.

Study the word "practice".

Those who practice righteousness are righteous.

Those who practice unrighteousness are unrighteous.

JLB

Do you ever sin? Which one or ten? Why practice unrighteousness? Just as the young man come to Jesus asking what he must do to inherit eternal life; do we miss anything? Oh no Lord, I have sold all, given to the poor, and follow you huh. Remember that Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin . . What? How can that be? for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[JLB]

No! But what does James' proclamation have to do with Paul's fear of losing his salvation? Nothing.

Are you trying to teach this Forum that there's a competion for the 'prize of salvation' that's awarded to only one person?

Do you not know that those who run in the stadium all run, but one receives the prize?
​

Are you trying to teach this Forum that Chapter 9 is about Paul's salvation when he specifically says it's about his reward for his voluntary proclamation of the Gospel as an Apostle?

For if I proclaim the gospel, ...voluntarily, I have a reward, ​

Are you trying to teach this Forum that Chapter 9 is about Paul's salvation when he specifically says it's about his winning other people's salvation?

What then is my reward?

I proclaim the gospel,... in order that I may gain more.
gain those outside the law.
gain the weak.​

What, gain more personal salvation? No, that's antithetical toward the Gospel. Saved is saved.

You trying to teach that Paul gains more salvation than the rest if us do?

​

No brother, I love you too but you are wrong about verse 9:27 being about Paul's fear of losing his salvation. And you've not really even made a case for your position from within the context of chapter 9. That's because you can't. It's not there.

I could do what you've done and 'show' the crown discussed in 1 Cor 9 is really not the crown of life, but rather the crown of thorns/death.

Mark 15:17 And they put a purple cloak on him, and after weaving a crown of thorns they placed it on him.

But that's a pretty bad way to study the Bible. Paul had a message within Chapter 9 (and yes an additional message into chapter 10). But to assert Paul's chapter 9 "crown" is also James' is no better than trying to assert that it's Mark's.

Brother, it's to late.

You have already made your claim that the subject was Paul getting "more prizes".

You have been shown just how wrong you are.

Paul wanted only to gain more souls for Christ.

Salvation is the issue Paul is dealing with.

The crown of life is what we, both Paul and us are in this race of life about.

Paul was not excluded from this truth that James teaches us.

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Paul himself had to do the work of keeping the faith and finishing his course.

He did and was approved.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Do you ever sin? Which one or ten? Why practice unrighteousness? Just as the young man come to Jesus asking what he must do to inherit eternal life; do we miss anything? Oh no Lord, I have sold all, given to the poor, and follow you huh. Remember that Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin . . What? How can that be? for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

 

[Eugene]

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

How are you walking in the light by committing sin? Do you believe it is alright to sin? Is that keeping the faith?