Bible Study WHY!

[Douglas Summers]

Like 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Any man. Jew, Greek , male, female, bond, free.......

eddif

Hi eddif,
Actually Christ is saying to the self righteous Christ rejecting Pharisee who rejected Christ as King of Israel, that during this age would not see the Kingdom appear with observation since they rejected it. For the Kingdom of God was (Greek "entos") meaning in the midst of you. Where ever Christ is, there is the Kingdom. They knew the Scriptures. Christ fulfilled all of them as the coming son of David.

Did you notice in Rev.3:20 that Christ is not asking them to come out. He is knocking on he door , asking if He can come in. Sadly that is the state of too many Churches today. They have settled down where Satan's throne is. Worldly church.

And Amen to you last quote. (Rev. 7:9)

In Christ
Douglas Summers

 

[Chopper]

No man, not even a Jew, has ever been justified for salvation, by the Law of Moses, it was/is impossible. That is why Jesus had to do it, perfectly.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Those who slept/were physically dead, and had died in faith, before the cross.
He is the firstfruits of the harvest. That harvest does not just include those after the cross.
In Moses' Law this was a commanded observance, done by the High Priest...
The sheaf offering, the omer lifted up, on the first 8th day (Sunday) after passover, represents the resurrection of our Lord.

I believe when people, who do not accept that the NT is for today's believers, would see how what was being done for 1500 yrs. before the cross, under a different covenant, was the precursor to the cross and the new covenant, they could see how and why the new covenant and the teachings under that covenant, are still applicable to us today.

OK, can't debate.

 

[Deborah13]

OK, can't debate.

No we can't debate. But this is a Bible Study, so you are allowed to state your opinion and interpretation of a scripture that has been posted.

 

[eddif]

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Sounds like individuals (?).

eddif

 

[Deborah13]

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

That is individual.

 

[Chopper]

No man, not even a Jew, has ever been justified for salvation, by the Law of Moses, it was/is impossible. That is why Jesus had to do it, perfectly.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Those who slept/were physically dead, and had died in faith, before the cross.
He is the firstfruits of the harvest. That harvest does not just include those after the cross.
In Moses' Law this was a commanded observance, done by the High Priest...
The sheaf offering, the omer lifted up, on the first 8th day (Sunday) after passover, represents the resurrection of our Lord.

I believe when people, who do not accept that the NT is for today's believers, would see how what was being done for 1500 yrs. before the cross, under a different covenant, was the precursor to the cross and the new covenant, they could see how and why the new covenant and the teachings under that covenant, are still applicable to us today.

I guess Deb, I'm a little confused as to what you are saying. My OP was an inquiry about any New Covenant Scripture that clearly states that the writings to the first century churches are applicable to the present day churches and even for me. I see that Scripture states,
Ephesians 2:14 "For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility."

What I am seeing Deb is that the whole Word of God is applicable for you and me today. I feel that there is way to much emphasis on disregarding the Old Covenant Commands, Statues, and Rules, and only adhering to the New Covenant teachings. It seems to me, as I watch some of the TV preachers, churches that I have personally attend, they stick to the New Covenant the majority of time and rarely preach and teach from the Old Covenant.

This is your statement. "No man, not even a Jew, has ever been justified for salvation, by the Law of Moses, it was/is impossible. That is why Jesus had to do it, perfectly." The way I see it,
Rom 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Abraham and others believed and followed Yahweh's commands and as they looked forward to the promised Messiah, they were saved. In my mind, righteous in God's eyes is the same as saved in our eyes.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I guess Deb, I'm a little confused as to what you are saying. My OP was an inquiry about any New Covenant Scripture that clearly states that the writings to the first century churches are applicable to the present day churches and even for me. I see that Scripture states,
Ephesians 2:14 "For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility."

What I am seeing Deb is that the whole Word of God is applicable for you and me today. I feel that there is way to much emphasis on disregarding the Old Covenant Commands, Statues, and Rules, and only adhering to the New Covenant teachings. It seems to me, as I watch some of the TV preachers, churches that I have personally attend, they stick to the New Covenant the majority of time and rarely preach and teach from the Old Covenant.

This is your statement. "No man, not even a Jew, has ever been justified for salvation, by the Law of Moses, it was/is impossible. That is why Jesus had to do it, perfectly." The way I see it,
Rom 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Abraham and others believed and followed Yahweh's commands and as they looked forward to the promised Messiah, they were saved. In my mind, righteous in God's eyes is the same as saved in our eyes.

And I completely agree.

 

[ezrider]

I guess Deb, I'm a little confused as to what you are saying. My OP was an inquiry about any New Covenant Scripture that clearly states that the writings to the first century churches are applicable to the present day churches and even for me. I see that Scripture states,
Ephesians 2:14 "For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility."

What I am seeing Deb is that the whole Word of God is applicable for you and me today. I feel that there is way to much emphasis on disregarding the Old Covenant Commands, Statues, and Rules, and only adhering to the New Covenant teachings. It seems to me, as I watch some of the TV preachers, churches that I have personally attend, they stick to the New Covenant the majority of time and rarely preach and teach from the Old Covenant.

This is your statement. "No man, not even a Jew, has ever been justified for salvation, by the Law of Moses, it was/is impossible. That is why Jesus had to do it, perfectly." The way I see it,
Rom 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Abraham and others believed and followed Yahweh's commands and as they looked forward to the promised Messiah, they were saved. In my mind, righteous in God's eyes is the same as saved in our eyes.

Chopper, Christ came that He might restore unto us a relationship with the Lord that was lost in the garden. Because of the first man Adam, by one man death has passed to us all. So likewise by one man the gift of life through the righteousness of Christ has passed unto all men if they will receive it. From the first man Adam to the last man Adam, what does the old covenant have to do with your salvation?

.

 

[eddif]

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So how do we get Abraham saved by Jesus?

Abraham's bosom was visited by Jesus and had the gospel presented to him. Of course you have to believe Peter.
I Peter3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

These persons in Abraham's bosom were probably righteous but not justified, but I am still working through much of this. Jews introduced all covenants.

The active folks in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man allow persons of faith to hear (if they have a preacher) The gulf is between those in torment.

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Jesus evidently could go where others could not. Just when is still unclear to me .

I Peter 2:24 covers much.

eddif

 

[ezrider]

Chopper,

If the Lord were present with you and He could teach you what your heart desired, would you look to the Bible for his answer?

.

 

[Deborah13]

Paul said was dung was the way to righteousness. The Jews had to adhere to the Law, and by faith follow what Yahweh commanded them to do....Our righteousness as Paul so rightly wrote was thru the sacrifice for sin on the cross by Christ Jesus.

This sounds like you are saying that men were saved differently before the cross than they are after the cross.

I feel that there is way to much emphasis on disregarding the Old Covenant Commands, Statues, and Rules, and only adhering to the New Covenant teachings.

What is it that you think we should be adhering to in the old covenant doctrines that are not repeated in the doctrines of the new covenant? Are you referring to the do's and don'ts? If so, what do and don'ts do you are you referring to?

churches that I have personally attend, they stick to the New Covenant the majority of time and rarely preach and teach from the Old Covenant.

I agree.
What would you like to see them preach and teach and for what purpose?

So how do we get Abraham saved by Jesus?
Abraham's bosom was visited by Jesus and had the gospel presented to him. Of course you have to believe Peter.
I Peter3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Abraham was still Abram when this promise was given. It seems pretty vague there. Then we see Abraham offering Isacc but having faith that God would provide or raise him from the dead. And he was looking for a city built by God. So it appears Abraham knew quite a bit, I think.
Also here, Romans 4:3-16

 

[th1b.taylor]

Chopper, Christ came that He might restore unto us a relationship with the Lord that was lost in the garden. Because of the first man Adam, by one man death has passed to us all. So likewise by one man the gift of life through the righteousness of Christ has passed unto all men if they will receive it. From the first man Adam to the last man Adam, what does the old covenant have to do with your salvation?

.

I am not Chopper but I suspect he will not mind my input here. If you would look at the Measure God left for our edification and you were to read Paul's letters you would find that the study of the Law and the Prophets is and always will be to our profit. I know you have informed me that a spirit, you know as god, gives you messages that tickle the ear but you, seriously, need to measure what you receive against the sure Word of God because Satan does appear as an angel of light.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I Peter3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

You should also use Matthew 27:51-53 for your point eddif.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Chopper,

If the Lord were present with you and He could teach you what your heart desired, would you look to the Bible for his answer?

.

But how can you know it is the one God and not some god if you do not measure his message against the sure Word?

 

[th1b.taylor]

This sounds like you are saying that men were saved differently before the cross than they are after the cross.

I understood him to be commenting that the Jewish Believer believed there was a different way because the Jewish Believer of today still believes they must obey every facet of the Law to be saved from Hell.

What is it that you think we should be adhering to in the old covenant doctrines that are not repeated in the doctrines of the new covenant? Are you referring to the do's and don'ts? If so, what do and don'ts do you are you referring to?

But our duty in applying the Old Testament to our lives. In Galatians 3:24-26 we learn that the Law was the teacher and I have been taught by the Holy Spirit it still is the teacher recognized by the World to this day. (2Tim. 3:16 and Prov. 3:13-15) And, actually, the New Testament is the only Life Application Commentary that is God breathed on the Bible, the first 39 books found in the Christian Version of God's Word. The early New Testament Christians understood the Bible Jesus taught from was the Jewish Bible. In the first century the New Testament, God's Commentary on the Bible appear not to have been written until the death of Jesus. All of the lessons taught in the New Testament were taught by men form the word and works found in the Jewish Bible, even Jesus, the author of both, taught His lessons from His Word to the Jews.

I agree.
What would you like to see them preach and teach and for what purpose?

All of the scripture because there is great wisdom there... God's wisdom.

 

[ezrider]

But how can you know it is the one God and not some god if you do not measure his message against the sure Word?

My question was to Chopper. But since you asked the question how can you know? If you have to ask that question, then you do not know His voice.

.

 

[th1b.taylor]

My question was to Chopper. But since you asked the question how can you know? If you have to ask that question, then you do not know His voice.

.

No, the fact is I know because I use the measure to insure it is Him. And I know that His voice and Satan's voice, being spirit voices have no timber but rather are perceived. And as I said, Satan does appear as an Angle of Light, the same as does the Angle of God. But when their words are measured against the sure Word of God the false is very obvious.

 

[ezrider]

I am not Chopper but I suspect he will not mind my input here. If you would look at the Measure God left for our edification and you were to read Paul's letters you would find that the study of the Law and the Prophets is and always will be to our profit. I know you have informed me that a spirit, you know as god, gives you messages that tickle the ear but you, seriously, need to measure what you receive against the sure Word of God because Satan does appear as an angel of light.

If your going to add your input to a question that I asked Chopper, then maybe you could answer the question that I asked. But instead you try to deflect from the question I have asked and then offered a bunch of mumbo jumbo that has nothing to do with the question I asked, and only serve to muddy the waters of a respectful dialog to an issue that Chopper is seeking answers to.

.

 

[eddif]

Deborah13 said
Abraham was still Abram when this promise was given. It seems pretty vague there. Then we see Abraham offering Isacc but having faith that God would provide or raise him from the dead. And he was looking for a city built by God. So it appears Abraham knew quite a bit, I think. Abraham was still Abram when this promise was given. It seems pretty vague there. Then we see Abraham offering Isacc but having faith that God would provide or raise him from the dead. And he was looking for a city built by God. So it appears Abraham knew quite a bit, I think.
---------------
Good point.
Pre law folks were really amazing.
Moses father in law (and Moses's wife).
Melchisidec

eddif

 

[eddif]

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Any action or teaching of Jesus was the word. Even to predict actions and support the apostles was Word.

eddif