Bible Study WHY!

[Chopper]

Chopper,

If the Lord were present with you and He could teach you what your heart desired, would you look to the Bible for his answer?

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Well, if Jesus was with me, that would mean that the New Covenant hadn't been written. I would then, first consult the Old Covenant writings and if I still didn't have an answer, I'd ask Jesus. I think that the Lord expects me to know what has already been written so as not to waste His time. There were times, I believe (can't remember) when Jesus was asked a question and His reply was, what says the Prophet, or something along those lines.

 

[Deborah13]

Well, if Jesus was with me, that would mean that the New Covenant hadn't been written. I would then, first consult the Old Covenant writings and if I still didn't have an answer, I'd ask Jesus. I think that the Lord expects me to know what has already been written so as not to waste His time. There were times, I believe (can't remember) when Jesus was asked a question and His reply was, what says the Prophet, or something along those lines.

The first thing I thought of when ezrider asked that question, is that I hope I would be like Mary, sitting at His feet listening to very Word He said.

 

[ezrider]

Well, if Jesus was with me, that would mean that the New Covenant hadn't been written. I would then, first consult the Old Covenant writings and if I still didn't have an answer, I'd ask Jesus. I think that the Lord expects me to know what has already been written so as not to waste His time. There were times, I believe (can't remember) when Jesus was asked a question and His reply was, what says the Prophet, or something along those lines.

Why would you say that it would mean that the new covenant had not yet been written? Not sure what you are driving at with that statement. You are awaiting the return of Jesus. If he should return and you were able to ask Him a question, would you listen for His answer or would you look for His answer in the Bible?


When I was young and had just left home and went off into the military I would participate in the lost art of letter writing. My mother would send me letters, and I would from time to time write one back as well. All these years later, my mother still writes me the occasional letter, though much more dialog occurs in a weekly phone call. Anyway, when I was young and alone out in the world for the first time, I found comfort in those letters and her words of encouragement carried me through. But when I talk on the phone with her, or when I go home to visit, or when she comes to visit me, I do not spend my time perusing through her old letters: We have a conversation. Now in the coarse of that conversation a topic from one of her letters may come up, and we might discuss what she wrote in that letter. If I didn't understand what she had meant or what she had intended with what she had written me, then in the coarse of our conversation I might ask her to clarify her thoughts so that I might understand. How could I gain the understanding from her letter when I did not understand what she meant in the letter in the first place?

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[ezrider]

The first thing I thought of when ezrider asked that question, is that I hope I would be like Mary, sitting at His feet listening to very Word He said.

And yet Mary for all the time she spent sitting at His feet listening, did not know Him after that He had risen, and she supposed him to be a gardener.

 

[Deborah13]

And yet Mary for all the time she spent sitting at His feet listening, did not know Him after that He had risen, and she supposed him to be a gardener.

That is true. I wonder why. Was it because she wasn't expecting to see Him or did He look different? The apostles didn't know Him either, did they?

 

[th1b.taylor]

If your going to add your input to a question that I asked Chopper, then maybe you could answer the question that I asked. But instead you try to deflect from the question I have asked and then offered a bunch of mumbo jumbo that has nothing to do with the question I asked, and only serve to muddy the waters of a respectful dialog to an issue that Chopper is seeking answers to.

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I gave you the answer you need because you ask amiss and you ask amiss because you do not know the identity of the spirit guiding you and you know not because you do not seek wisdom by using the measure God has given for our own surety.

And in post # 50 you said,

Chopper,

If the Lord were present with you and He could teach you what your heart desired, would you look to the Bible for his answer?

Where you, once again erred and defined your own error when it comes to living with and for God. In another string I have already given you passages from 2 Peter and Proverbs explaining the cause for my statements and my concern for your salvation. You have, over and over, demonstrated as well as stated that you do not follow scripture and accusing anyone f nt knowing the Holy Spirit is to call their salvation into question, a matter to be careful with. And litterally, I have been careful not to reply to you because the Spirit in me agrees with the scriptures and repeatedly the spirit in you does not agree with the recorded and preserved Word of God, the Word protected and kept pure by God Himself. And that according to scriptures I, in the past, have given to you but you reject.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Chopper, Christ came that He might restore unto us a relationship with the Lord that was lost in the garden. Because of the first man Adam, by one man death has passed to us all. So likewise by one man the gift of life through the righteousness of Christ has passed unto all men if they will receive it. From the first man Adam to the last man Adam, what does the old covenant have to do with your salvation?

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The side issue: Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and every other First Century Saint taught Salvation from the Bible,the same set of books Jesus/God taught it from. I did not want to answer this because the answer will slap you right in your pride and an inflated ego is messy, I still remember mine. But without the Bible, the first thirty-nine books of the Christian Bible, there would not be the Commentary, the final 27 Books. Before God created Adam (Man) He had the Salvation of man, already planned.

If we never read the Bible Jesus taught us from, there is no foundation for the New Testament. The best thing that ever happened to the scriptures was Chain Referencing and the worst thing was peoples desire to replace it with Torrey's or Nave's Topical Study Bibles. Not that they aren't excellent study guides but people were reluctant to use the Chain Reference and they are, as incredible as is, to stupid or too lazy to open another book to study.

 

[ezrider]

The side issue: Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and every other First Century Saint taught Salvation from the Bible,the same set of books Jesus/God taught it from. I did not want to answer this because the answer will slap you right in your pride and an inflated ego is messy, I still remember mine. But without the Bible, the first thirty-nine books of the Christian Bible, there would not be the Commentary, the final 27 Books. Before God created Adam (Man) He had the Salvation of man, already planned.

If we never read the Bible Jesus taught us from, there is no foundation for the New Testament. The best thing that ever happened to the scriptures was Chain Referencing and the worst thing was peoples desire to replace it with Torrey's or Nave's Topical Study Bibles. Not that they aren't excellent study guides but people were reluctant to use the Chain Reference and they are, as incredible as is, to stupid or too lazy to open another book to study.

You seem to have made this personal for some reason Bill and I truly wish you would just knock off the crap. Maybe I should remind you that this is a Bible Study forum and not a debate forum.

And yet again, instead of simply answering my question you have rambled on in your desire to brawl while saying nothing and only embarrassing yourself in the process.

The question I pose is not that you may instruct me as if I need the answer to the question. I ask that you might reflect upon the question and then attempt to give an honest answer. But the trouble is Bill, and why you don't like the question to begin with, is you know that there is no one scripture that you can point to that will give you the answer. But the question is not asked that we may find a right answer, or an answer to a scripture that you can hold up in judgement. The question is asked so that people may begin to express what they believe and once those beliefs are expressed they are more open to looking at them.

Again, the question is simple: Our fall from Grace began in the story of the garden of Eden. By one man's disobedience death has passed unto all men. Even so by obedience of one man has gift of salvation passed unto all men, that they might know his righteousness. If the fall of man happened with Adam, and the rise of man happened with Christ, then what does the covenant with Moses and the nation of Israel have to do with your salvation today? If the Salvation through Christ restores our relationship that was lost because of Adam's transgression, then what more salvation might I gain from Moses?

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[eddif]

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body isof Christ.

Colossians 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Christ is the reality that casts the shadow. Study him to learn truth.

Study the shadow and vain imaginations will lead you astray.

Colossians 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

I know all the years I spent in the Old Testament (while sitting in modern denominational churches). I sure have to acknowledge that I did not know the difference in reality and shadows. The law is spiritual, and used lawfully is good.

There is a new covenant based on better promises.
Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

A Jew giving advice to Jews (straight out of the bible). My little piddling thoughts are based on Jewish authors.

eddif

 

[ezrider]

I gave you the answer you need because you ask amiss and you ask amiss because you do not know the identity of the spirit guiding you and you know not because you do not seek wisdom by using the measure God has given for our own surety.

You presume that I was the one who needed an answer to the question that I asked, but you don't even understand the intent of the question. So you make the question about yourself and then have the audacity to say that I somehow asked my question in error. Yet again you make a claim that I do not know the Spirit that guides me, but that is not really what disturbs you, is it? You are disturbed because you can not identify the Spirit that guides me. Was is any different for the Pharisees? They too held and studied and read the Holy Scriptures, yet when the moment of their test came, they did not know the Spirit that was in Christ either, and they sitting themselves in Moses seat, they did not hear the word of God as it was spoken to them.

If I were to consider the parable of the prodigal son, I would have to say that you are beginning to remind me of the older brother Bill. Now mind you, the younger brother was the one that came back humbled, and the Father went forth to meet him along the Way. And to the surprise of the younger brother, he found the Grace and Mercy of his Father and knew his salvation in the Lord. Knowing of his salvation and the joy that overflows him, the younger brother begins to announce the salvation of the Lord, of His Grace and Mercy, and of His righteousness.

But as the parable goes, the older brother was displeased with this and took no part in the celebration of his younger brothers return. Instead the older brother turned his ear from the Lord and would not hear. The Father came out to him as well, but in the hardness of his heart he would not listen, not even to his Father.

What should happen with the older brother on the day that they should both come before the Lord. What shall the older brother do when he finds out that his offering was not accepted, while that of the younger brother was pleasing to the Lord. Shall Cain raise up to slay his brother once again?

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[ezrider]

That is true. I wonder why. Was it because she wasn't expecting to see Him or did He look different? The apostles didn't know Him either, did they?

That is correct. In fact Peter three times did not know Jesus after he had risen. Is that what you would call irony for denying Jesus three times before his crucifixion.

As to wondering why? I can not say, but I believe it is a testament to the Power of the Holy Spirit. Consider the scripture that says blindness as happened to Israel. What possibly could cause that blindness, and how do we know that that same blindness is not still in effect today? If it is, it is to the Glory of God. And if it is not, then God shall be Glorified.

Consider the scripture that says the same vail remains upon their hearts unto this day when it comes to reading the old testament, but when it shall turn to Christ, then the vail shall be taken away.

It is Christ who holds the keys to the Kingdom. Christ is the Key to the kingdom.

The Pharisees thought that they had eyes to see, and they had the Holy Scriptures to read in their own language, yet they were blind. We today think because we can ready the Holy Scripture in our own language and preferred translation, and because we can look up the original word in a dictionary and decide for ourselves how it should be interpreted, we too presume that we have eyes to see. But there is a lesson to be learned, for if you hear the word of God, then know that you are blind. When you accept that you are blind, then you may begin to walk by Faith.

The serpent in the garden promised if they took from the tree of knowledge their eyes would be open and they would be as gods. The serpent uses the same message with the law of Moses and the written word. It is the Knowledge of good and evil, and by its knowledge our eyes are open to sin and death. And when our eyes are open to sin and death, then we remain blind to the righteousness of Christ. But if we can accept that Power belongs to the Lord and to His Spirit, then by the power of the Holy Spirit and our blindness to the wrath that should consume us by His Grace that He has give unto us. Hidden from the promised judgement to come, blind, walking by faith, trusting in the Lord's salvation as He reveals unto you the righteousness of Christ and the Glory of God..

eddif is correct. It begins with Christ, and it ends with Christ. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.

That was the promise that Jesus left before he departed. That He would send forth the Comforter, and that the Holy Spirit would teach them of all things concerning Himself. Today the same vail remains upon their hearts, none the less, when their hearts shall turn to Christ, then the vail shall be taken away.

Christ is the reality that casts the shadow. Study him to learn truth.

Study the shadow and vain imaginations will lead you astray.

:amen

 

[ezrider]

I think that the Lord expects me to know what has already been written so as not to waste His time.

Would he? Or would he say you have wasted your time? What of the disciples, do you think they understood the old testament; the law and the prophets? They walked with Jesus for more than three years, and yet they did not understand the scriptures nor what was happening before their very eyes, but it was not for them to understand at that time. Theirs was to walk by faith and be a witness to the things they beheld and to testify of those things that they saw and heard.

Even after Jesus had risen and appeared unto the men along the way, and they presumed him to be a stranger in Jerusalem, he talked with them along the way asking why they were so sad. They explained to the man their hopes for their kingdom and what had happened to their Lord and how they presumed that He would be their King and the kingdom should be restored. Then the stranger expounded unto to them of all the things written from Moses to the prophets concerning Himself. And later when their eyes were opened and they knew who He was, vanishing from their sight, they reflected on how their hearts burned within themselves as He opened unto them the scriptures.

What is it that the Lord would expect you should already know? Are we to live by knowledge or live by faith. Of all the trees in the garden thou may eat, but of the tree of knowledge you shall not eat.

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[eddif]

ezrider thanks for quoting my words, now I can correct my thoughts some.

If you only study the shadows you may let vain imaginations lead you astray.

Contained in shadows is truth, but without help from Jesus (like the disciples got) then you feel certain questions but can not really figure it out.
Today the indwelling Holy Spirit can work in us to lead us. When I saw my thought written by you, the Spirit lightly grabbed me and said "No".

It bugs me our prophecy is imperfect, but then prophecy is a gift and not our own.

Satan will try and lease us into error, or if we open the door Holy Spirit (His Spirit) will lead us.

Sorry for the error. Thank God we do not stone folks today (I would be gone). Some plant some water, but it is God that gives the growth.

eddif

 

[Douglas Summers]

Here's a thought. I have been before the Lord pondering about the Word of God and how much of it is applicable to me. I know it sounds foolish that I would ponder such a thing. I have a Grandson who's name is Chad. He is not a believer in Christ Jesus, YET. He only believes the "lovey duvy, warm and fuzzy" Scriptures. He disregards the Old Covenant because he sees God as a cruel tyrant that makes demands and kills anyone who disobeys. This thread is all about gaining wisdom and knowledge about the letters to the New Covenant Churches. Are they for me as well as those 1st Century Christians.

In praying and considering the Word of God, the thought came to me, "wait a minute, I have been grafted into Israel thru the Blood sacrifice of Jesus", and therefore all Scripture applies to me....The following verses explain how I got there....What do some of you think of what I've said?


Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Chopper, I have a number of thoughts that I could share, and if time permits maybe I will try and share some of them later tonight or over the weekend. But before I do, can you please clarify what you mean when you use the word "responsible"? There is a lot riding on that particular word. Are we responsible for the works it demands? Or are we responsible to understand the failures and triumphs of those that are written about?

• History of the Bible - Who Wrote the Bible - Why It's Reliable
  www.everystudent.com/features/bible.html - Similarto History of the Bible - Who Wrote the Bible - Why It's Reliable
  
  It is the history of the Bible that makes it unique among 'sacred texts.' See who wrote the Bible, how it's reportive style is backed by archeology and historians...
  
  
• Hi ezrider, Above is a web site that will answer some of your questions. Scripture is not for the curios or idle, but for the man of God. For all Scripture (OT; NT) is given by inspiration of God , and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction for righteousness , that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.(2 Tim. 3:16-17)

In Christ
Douglas Summers

 

[Douglas Summers]

ezrider thanks for quoting my words, now I can correct my thoughts some.

If you only study the shadows you may let vain imaginations lead you astray.

Contained in shadows is truth, but without help from Jesus (like the disciples got) then you feel certain questions but can not really figure it out.
Today the indwelling Holy Spirit can work in us to lead us. When I saw my thought written by you, the Spirit lightly grabbed me and said "No".

It bugs me our prophecy is imperfect, but then prophecy is a gift and not our own.

Satan will try and lease us into error, or if we open the door Holy Spirit (His Spirit) will lead us.

Sorry for the error. Thank God we do not stone folks today (I would be gone). Some plant some water, but it is God that gives the growth.

eddif

Hi eddif, There is no new prophecy. All prophecy has either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled in the future. The gift of prophecy in the NT Church is not necessarily a fore teller, but his gift is for edification, exhortation and comfort. 1 Cor. 14:3. So prophecy is not imperfect if it is a gift. Usually the gifted prophet has a greater understanding of the biblical prophecies and by reminding the weak in Christ of the promises to come to comfort them. 1 Thes. 4:13-18. Christ has given His Church all things in knowledge of past , present, future by grace. The adoption of sons .1 Cor. 1:3-12. Amen.

In Christ

Douglas Summers

 

[th1b.taylor]

You seem to have made this personal for some reason Bill and I truly wish you would just knock off the crap. Maybe I should remind you that this is a Bible Study forum and not a debate forum.

And yet again, instead of simply answering my question you have rambled on in your desire to brawl while saying nothing and only embarrassing yourself in the process.

The question I pose is not that you may instruct me as if I need the answer to the question. I ask that you might reflect upon the question and then attempt to give an honest answer. But the trouble is Bill, and why you don't like the question to begin with, is you know that there is no one scripture that you can point to that will give you the answer. But the question is not asked that we may find a right answer, or an answer to a scripture that you can hold up in judgement. The question is asked so that people may begin to express what they believe and once those beliefs are expressed they are more open to looking at them.

Again, the question is simple: Our fall from Grace began in the story of the garden of Eden. By one man's disobedience death has passed unto all men. Even so by obedience of one man has gift of salvation passed unto all men, that they might know his righteousness. If the fall of man happened with Adam, and the rise of man happened with Christ, then what does the covenant with Moses and the nation of Israel have to do with your salvation today? If the Salvation through Christ restores our relationship that was lost because of Adam's transgression, then what more salvation might I gain from Moses?

.

My man, your four letter word has no place here. Yes, it means the same thing as manure but it is also vulgar to many of the brethren and we are to not offend them intentionally nor casually. (1Cor. 8:13) And if you will read the quote of what you said you will see, you did ask amiss or somebody edited your post and that did not happen.

Now, today's question, "If the Salvation through Christ restores our relationship that was lost because of Adam's transgression, then what more salvation might I gain from Moses?" If the Salvation through Christ restores our relationship that was lost because of Adam's transgression, then what more salvation might I gain from Moses? If the Salvation through Christ restores our relationship that was lost because of Adam's transgression, then what more salvation might I gain from Moses?" 2Tim. 3:16 is the answer to this question.

I will, possibly, upset your troubled spirit again but here comes another metaphor. If I had never studied History I would have entered the military as a military idiot. Today and then, everything is because of the History of the thing. God, the only Omnipotent Being that exists and because He is omnipotent, He did not need, for His benefit, need to spend, roughly, four thousand years preparing Himself to grant us the grace that brings Salvation. No, that four thousand years was and is for our benefit. 2Tim. 3:16 assures us there is nothing included in the scriptures that is not profitable to know.

And then you asked, "If the Salvation through Christ restores our relationship that was lost because of Adam's transgression, then what more salvation might I gain from Moses?" If you will open the scriptures and do as the LORD has wanted us to do, study, you find the assurance of everything we should know of our LORD.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Would he? Or would he say you have wasted your time? What of the disciples, do you think they understood the old testament; the law and the prophets?

Yes! In fact, as I have repeatedly expressed, the Jewish Bible, the Bible Jesus taught from, the books we term "the Old Testament," was the only Bible they they had for the Commentary, the New Testament, was not written as of that time, no, they were writing it.

 

[Deborah13]

And then you asked, "If the Salvation through Christ restores our relationship that was lost because of Adam's transgression, then what more salvation might I gain from Moses?" If you will open the scriptures and do as the LORD has wanted us to do, study, you find the assurance of everything we should know of our LORD.

Bill, what Salvation have you gained from Moses?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hi eddif, There is no new prophecy. All prophecy has either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled in the future. The gift of prophecy in the NT Church is not necessarily a fore teller, but his gift is for edification, exhortation and comfort. 1 Cor. 14:3. So prophecy is not imperfect if it is a gift. Usually the gifted prophet has a greater understanding of the biblical prophecies and by reminding the weak in Christ of the promises to come to comfort them. 1 Thes. 4:13-18. Christ has given His Church all things in knowledge of past , present, future by grace. The adoption of sons .1 Cor. 1:3-12. Amen.

In Christ

Douglas Summers

AMEN!

 

[th1b.taylor]

Bill, what salvation have you gained from Moses?

Deb, you quoted the answer. There can be no increase but is anyone that is disobedient saved? Jesus instructed us to know and to oey all His commands and there is no command in scripture that is not His.