Bible Study WHY!

[th1b.taylor]

You see how offensive and irresponsible your claim about me is Bill. I asked what does Your Law say about bearing false witness. You have made the statement more than once that I am a David Koresh or a Jim Jones. It time to put up or shut up Bill? Where is your evidence? If your going to make that claim and then stand by it, then you have better start presenting your evidence. Where is my compound Bill? How many followers to I have in my flock Bill? Put up or shut up Bill. Present your evidence if you can Bill.

But you can't present any evidence to back up your claim because you have none Bill. My accuser stands before before me with no evidence to justify his reckless and irresponsible behavior. I am justified in Christ. Get thee behind me.

I do, actually, know and I suspected you would be offended before I said it. Just as an arrogant fool that I had stopped would drive on in spite of my having stopped him and told him the bridge he was about to cross was unsafe. I have not compared you to them but your teaching to theirs.

 

[eddif]

Are you saying that you have spirits tell you things and nolonger really need the written words? How would you ezrider have known anything written in the book had you not read it from one of the many translations available, including those listed by th1b.taylor?

In my faith those written words are very importnant. I have been taught that if you or anyone tells me something and it does not conform to that which is written I am warned not to be enticed by them and I should at a minimum simply ignore them. I am also taught by those written words to be wary of those who would add or diminish from those written word. Because those written words Moses and Joshua recorded from the mouth of God shall stand forever.

Ez will have to answer for himself. It is for sure he has read and does read the bible. He may mess with our minds on purpose. Check out what is being said. Sometimes all we have is tradition floating in our head.

Does my post 120 throw you into shock? I think all sources should agree, but in a case of doubt I will weigh real heavely on Jesus actions and words. Some translations hint at a line of thought that is debatable in some subjects .

Human body symbolism pushes a lot of folks boxes at times. Much agony goes into my using it.

Made in the image of God just means spiritual things to some, but hearts and mind (brain), kidney, liver are all mentioned. I am not trying to promote me , but show that Romans 1:19-20 does mean something. If a conflict of thought occurs do you pull out the biology book? God made creation biology and inspired the bible.

Ask ez if he left off "good and evil" when using the discussion of the knowledge tree. That is one of the subjects I seek to understand more.

Why? Why should be addressed body - soul - spirit. There are realities and shadows to be understood. How do the Gentiles (being without the law) do the very things in the law?

A prophet spoke to Paul. Do we have prophets today? Will we use bible or tradition to decide? Will we use the scriptures of those who belive in modern prophets.

All this is tough to go through. Sometimes I hide behind Reba's couch. Other times I crawl out and put on weapons bought by the crucification of Jesus. All times I seek not to use carnal weapons (but I do fail too).

Backwoods redneck

eddif

 

[th1b.taylor]

Ez will have to answer for himself. It is for sure he has read and does read the bible. He may mess with our minds on purpose. Check out what is being said. Sometimes all we have is tradition floating in our head.

Does my post 120 throw you into shock? I think all sources should agree, but in a case of doubt I will weigh real heavely on Jesus actions and words. Some translations hint at a line of thought that is debatable in some subjects .

Human body symbolism pushes a lot of folks boxes at times. Much agony goes into my using it.

Made in the image of God just means spiritual things to some, but hearts and mind (brain), kidney, liver are all mentioned. I am not trying to promote me , but show that Romans 1:19-20 does mean something. If a conflict of thought occurs do you pull out the biology book? God made creation biology and inspired the bible.

Ask ez if he left off "good and evil" when using the discussion of the knowledge tree. That is one of the subjects I seek to understand more.

Why? Why should be addressed body - soul - spirit. There are realities and shadows to be understood. How do the Gentiles (being without the law) do the very things in the law?

A prophet spoke to Paul. Do we have prophets today? Will we use bible or tradition to decide? Will we use the scriptures of those who belive in modern prophets.

All this is tough to go through. Sometimes I hide behind Reba's couch. Other times I crawl out and put on weapons bought by the crucification of Jesus. All times I seek not to use carnal weapons (but I do fail too).

Backwoods redneck

eddif

No and your quote of Rom. 2:14 & 15 condemn ez. Had you misused the scripture or if you had, as is the case with ez, added or subtracted from or to the scriptures and if I had seen it I would have noted it for discussion. It was one instance, just as I have described that has set ez into his rage over the web.

 

[ezrider]

Are you saying that you have spirits telling you things and nolonger need the written words? How would you ezrider have known anything written in the book had you not read it from one of the many translations available, including those listed by th1b.taylor?

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit?

If your answer is No >>> Sorry, can't help you

If your answer is Yes >>>

Do you believe the Holy Spirit dwells within your heart?

If your answer is No >>> Then I would suggest searching the scriptures and the Words of Jesus concerning the promise of the Father.

If your answer is Yes >>> Should you not then listen to the instruction of the Spirit?

.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit?

If your answer is No >>> Sorry, can't help you

If your answer is Yes >>>

Do you believe the Holy Spirit dwells within your heart?

If your answer is No >>> Then I would suggest searching the scriptures and the Words of Jesus concerning the promise of the Father.

If your answer is Yes >>> Should you not then listen to the instruction of the Spirit?

.

ez,
Silehah never said anything about any disbelief but he did ask, like me, a question and here you are once again, going on the attack without cause and trying to flip the conversation. Just answer the question, man.

 

[ezrider]

See, I knew you were trying for your one percenter act, going in. You already know there was only the Oral Version during these time, if you've bothered to study. We find ourselves in one of the Bible Study Strings, once more, and once more you are, against the rules, trying to goad me into a stupid and pointless fight.

Bill, I have continued to ask you and others questions about the scriptures, and what you believe. But you will not answer these questions. Instead you continually try and make the subject about me. Why can't you just simply answer the question that I have asked.

See, there you go again. You consider instruction for your benefit to be slanderous but it is not. I used that comparison because like them, you were taking scripture sounding sayings of your own and presenting them as though they were, in fact, scripture.

Now seriously Bill, do you really take exception to me using "scriptural sounding sayings" when I am asking you questions about the scriptures? I am asking you questions about what you believe, based upon what I have learned in the scriptures, but you can not seem to answer them. Instead you seem to receive them as some sort of doctrinal instruction instead of the simple question that I ask. Why is that? Do the questions I ask of the scripture tear at the doctrines of men that you hold so dear?

Do you suppose this action will make you look more Christ like to the others here naming the name of Christ as their own? This is an unsupportable position, the one you hold on scripture, and I'll say it once more (2Tim. 3:16) All scripture is profitable for us to study or God would not allow the instruction to reside in His Recorded Word, the instructions we are to learn from and use to guide our lives from.

You keep quoting Timothy as if I have ignored the scriptures. Other have chimed in stating that it is obvious to them that I know the scriptures, and you seem to have taken exception with them as well. Now just in case it has been lost on you, the scripture is profitable for study and sound doctrine. In fact it is so profitable it has allowed me to ask of you the questions that I have asked of you, Chopper and others.

There is certainly a difference though in the way the we look at the scriptures.

You use the scripture to measure the righteousness of your own acts and the acts of others, and the temptation is in you to make yourself the judge of others, where you have admitted to questioning their very salvation. You see the Bible as a rule book and set of instructions that we must adhere to if we are to be saved.

I do not use the scripture or its laws to measure the righteousness of a person. I know that there is none righteous other than Christ. It is His Righteousness that I seek after, not the righteousness of the works of the law. I do not see the Bible as a rule book and a set of commands that I must follow. When I look to the scripture I see His salvation. When I look to the scripture for instruction and sound doctrine, I see an innumerable cloud of witnesses sharing with me their testimony.

I have heard Abraham tell me that All belongs to the Lord. And even though the Lord had promised him all of this land, he never sought to posses the land for himself, but that he was content to dwell in the land as a wander and a stranger possessing the blessings from the Lord instead.

I have heard Moses tell me to not be afraid, that I should turn aside and see this thing for myself.

I have heard the words of Jesus.


.

 

[ezrider]

I asked what does Your Law say about bearing false witness. You have made the statement more than once that I am a David Koresh or a Jim Jones. It time to put up or shut up Bill? Where is your evidence? If your going to make that claim and then stand by it, then you have better start presenting your evidence.

There you go again, I did not call you either, I compared you to them because you are using a similar method of teaching. I'll ask it this time, why lie?

I do, actually, know and I suspected you would be offended before I said it. Just as an arrogant fool that I had stopped would drive on in spite of my having stopped him and told him the bridge he was about to cross was unsafe. I have not compared you to them but your teaching to theirs.

So now I am not like them, its just that my teaching is like theirs. Well, were is your evidence? You cast out two names and compare my teaching to theirs, but the comparison that you make is still irresponsible and reckless.

David Koresh, what were his teachings? I don't know. The only thing I know of David Koresh is that he thought of himself as Christ returned if I am not mistaken, but ended up to be just another nut living in Texas who was paranoid of the government and went down with all of his followers including women and children in a blaze of guns and fire thus fulfilling his own self prophecy. That is the image that you paint when you compare me to a David Koresh. But if you wish to make your case against me, then you will have to tell us what it was the David Koresh taught.

Jim Jones, what were his teachings? I don't know. The only thing I know of Jim Jones is that he was some nut, though I do not know if he was from Texas or not, but any way, the only thing I know of Jim Jones was that he was some charismatic nut who took his followers and fled to the jungles of South America. When he found that he was being investigated by the US government, I believe they killed a US senator or congressman, I do not remember, but after this he promised his followers deliverance by serving them kool-aid laced was poison, killing all the men, women and children within their compound. When you invoke the name of Jim Jones, that is the image that you wish to portray. But if you wish to make your case against me, then you will have to tell us what is was that Jim Jones taught.

For that matter, if you are to stand by your claim that my teaching is like the teaching of David Koresh and Jim Jones, then if it would please the court, before you present your testimony on the teachings of the said David Koresh and Jim Jones, I would ask that my accuser present before the court a brief summary of the doctrines and teachings that he accuses me of.

What is it that I am teaching Bill? What is my doctrine?

The question is, can my accuser answer?

.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Bill, I have continued to ask you and others questions about the scriptures, and what you believe. But you will not answer these questions. Instead you continually try and make the subject about me. Why can't you just simply answer the question that I have asked.

ez,
I/we owe you no answers until you answer the question that prompted you to drive aggressively toward changing the entire venue and to put us on the defensive, as though there were a battle going on. As a Combat Veteran I, fully, understand the principal that the best defense is a robust overwhelming offense. In a conversation, that is repulsive and is never proper as a response and yet, that is what you do, leaving those of us that are attacked in this manner to figure, "What is he hiding?" Our battle is against Spiritual beings and Spiritual Matters. I am on God' s side and I know that because I, too, receive input from a Spirit Being that I know to be God because everything He gives me agrees with the written Word of God. This is in full agreement with scriptures such as Mal. 3:6a.

I know not the spirit that gives you input that does not agree with Scripture but I do know he is not Father God.

 

[ezrider]

ez,
Silehah never said anything about any disbelief but he did ask, like me, a question and here you are once again, going on the attack without cause and trying to flip the conversation. Just answer the question, man.

Are you really that full of yourself Bill?

If you had looked just briefly at the avatar of selihah then you would have noticed that the member has stated that he is not a Christian. Now I do not hold that declaration against the member, but he was responding to more of your nonsense about me hearing spirits, so understanding that he is a new member and not a Christian, I asked a few questions about what he knew about the Holy Spirit?


You seemed to take exception to that. What did you find objectionable to the questions that I asked? Or are you just seeking to create a controversy over everything that I say whether the question is directed to you or not?

.

 

[ezrider]

ez,
I/we owe you no answers until you answer the question that prompted you to drive aggressively toward changing the entire venue and to put us on the defensive, as though there were a battle going on. As a Combat Veteran I, fully, understand the principal that the best defense is a robust overwhelming offense. In a conversation, that is repulsive and is never proper as a response and yet, that is what you do, leaving those of us that are attacked in this manner to figure, "What is he hiding?" Our battle is against Spiritual beings and Spiritual Matters. I am on God' s side and I know that because I, too, receive input from a Spirit Being that I know to be God because everything He gives me agrees with the written Word of God. This is in full agreement with scriptures such as Mal. 3:6a.

I know not the spirit that gives you input that does not agree with Scripture but I do know he is not Father God.

Actually Bill, It was you who stepped into this conversation by taking it upon yourself to answer a question that I asked of Chopper. You took up a beef with me in your "Obidiah" thread, and after I bowed out of your thread you chased me over to this thread to insert your comment into a question that was not asked of you. By the way, where is Obidiah, or has America just fizzled out. If that study was so important to you, why have you left off with it to pursue me and every comment that I make whether it is addressed to you or not.

Now you keep quoting Malachi 3:6 like it is supposed to mean something, but you have yet to say what you think it is supposed to mean. Now I am certain that you are using this scripture in some fashion to say the God never changes and God's law never changes. If that is the case, then why did God change the Law?

.

 

[ezrider]

Human body symbolism pushes a lot of folks boxes at times. Much agony goes into my using it.

Made in the image of God just means spiritual things to some, but hearts and mind (brain), kidney, liver are all mentioned. I am not trying to promote me , but show that Romans 1:19-20 does mean something. If a conflict of thought occurs do you pull out the biology book? God made creation biology and inspired the bible.

Ask ez if he left off "good and evil" when using the discussion of the knowledge tree. That is one of the subjects I seek to understand more.

eddif,

Something for you to think about. I have seen enough of your posts to know that you have an interest in science and biology. Now I will be quite honest and say that from time to time some your comments are lost on me, some because I have no frame of reference to that which you are talking of, and sometimes I think you have difficulty in expressing what is you are trying to say, but I think you have been improving in this respect immensely as you grow more comfortable in expressing your beliefs.

Now when it comes to the sciences and "secular knowledge" there has been a tremendous push back from the religious community. There is something that they find abhorrent and they want concealed, and so they attempt to discredit any source of knowledge outside of the Bible for fear it will corrupt there perfect idea of God. But what is there to fear with secular knowledge.

Many can look at secular knowledge, whether is creation through the idea of evolution, the formation of the planets and the age of the earth. All of these thing can be studied to the glory of God because it is the study of knowledge for the understanding of the way thing work, or the magnificence of His creation. But in all of the quest for the knowledge of the sciences to understand our place in the universe better, the quest of that knowledge does not come with the same temptation as does the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Secular knowledge in the sciences honors God by an innocent curiosity into understand his creation better. How we fit into it, and how best we begin to care fore it before our greed destroys it. But the one thing that the study of the sciences and secular knowledge in general. That knowledge does not come with the temptation and the promise that you will be like gods. That is not to say that some scientists do not see themselves as gods, but it is not the knowledge of the sciences that casts that god complex on some one. That is a promise and a temptation that exist only within the Bible. From the story of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden, to the effect that the law of Moses and the written commandments of the Book have over those who partake of its fruit. For as soon as they taste the fruit of the law, they forget their salvation and begin to judge one another by its knowledge thinking themselves to be gods. The Bible contains the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. The knowledge of good and evil is found in the Law. The Law condemns us of Sin and death.

Jesus died that we might be freed from sin. Not that we should never sin, but rather that we might walk before the Lord with a clean conscience in the face of sin. Jesus died to answer for or sins that were imposed under the law, the sins that were made known unto us when we partook of the fruit of the law. He has answered for these sins under the law so you might see clearly to look upon the one sin he has called you to repentance from. The Sin of Adam's transgression, for eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and then hiding from the voice of the Lord.

.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Actually Bill, It was you who stepped into this conversation by taking it upon yourself to answer a question that I asked of Chopper. You took up a beef with me in your "Obidiah" thread, and after I bowed out of your thread you chased me over to this thread to insert your comment into a question that was not asked of you. By the way, where is Obidiah, or has America just fizzled out. If that study was so important to you, why have you left off with it to pursue me and every comment that I make whether it is addressed to you or not.

Now you keep quoting Malachi 3:6 like it is supposed to mean something, but you have yet to say what you think it is supposed to mean. Now I am certain that you are using this scripture in some fashion to say the God never changes and God's law never changes. If that is the case, then why did God change the Law?

.

ez,
You can hide behind your keyboard and make accusations and try to steer the conversation, just as you are doing now but One of us will answer for our vanity before God and all I am doing here has two proofs and those proofs I'll live by until the end. One, whom you've convinced to regard you as the King's own prophet has already climbed all over my rear end for being so mean to you but the truth is you misquote scripture, a life and death matter, you refuse to answer questions by attempting to flip some sort of guilt on the person asking and you, speaking mildly, are dishonoring God every time you add to or subtract from the scriptures, a matter we are warned three times never to do. The first warning from God is in Deuteronomy, the last is in the end of t
The Revelation of Jesus and the third I long ago have forgotten the address.

Your only prayer for not ticking God off so bad that He will not hear you is that pretend to be super spiritual and never give an address but you err in presenting them to me and to others that understand and have studied the Bible because you present them as Personal God Given Revelation in spite of Mal. 3:6a. Worry? Yes, I worry that short of repenting that you are in eternal trouble and I would give much to see you repent and grow close to the Spirit that has no issue with any of us checking Him against His recorded Word. Still praying for you.

 

[Chopper]

Hey guys, lets stop the accusing each other of things that we are not privy to each others heart and position with our Savior. This line of posting will get us no where other than to have a Mod. close the thread.

My heart EZ is that I have been a student of the Word of God since 1974 when I was saved by the Blood of Jesus by faith....Here is what I have found and what I'm searching for....I have found that from Genesis to Revelation, these Scriptures are for me to learn from and to hide the Word of God in my heart so that I won't sin against my God, Psalm 119:11. I view the entire Word of God, my refuge in times of confusion, sadness, change, spiritual warfare, and a host of other situations.

When I think back over 30+ years of teaching the Word of God in the churches that I was the pastor, I realize that the majority of messages were in the New Testament ....Now, as I study just for my own enjoyment, I am finding that the Old Testament with all its history and Commands, Statues, and Rules show me a side of Yahweh that I hadn't seen in the New Testament.

Since I strive to love Yahweh with all my heart, I desire to know all He has allowed me to learn of Him, and to pray that I might know more of His thoughts and ways....I want to know what New Testament Words are for me and what Words were for particular churches and people, not me, or is it?

Bottom line? Why disregard the Old Testament, except the way of Salvation, as something that doesn't pertain to me when I believe that it does because the Holy Spirit, it seems to me, delights in my studies of the Old Testament.

 

[eddif]

eddif,

Something for you to think about. I have seen enough of your posts to know that you have an interest in science and biology. Now I will be quite honest and say that from time to time some your comments are lost on me, some because I have no frame of reference to that which you are talking of, and sometimes I think you have difficulty in expressing what is you are trying to say, but I think you have been improving in this respect immensely as you grow more comfortable in expressing your beliefs.

Now when it comes to the sciences and "secular knowledge" there has been a tremendous push back from the religious community. There is something that they find abhorrent and they want concealed, and so they attempt to discredit any source of knowledge outside of the Bible for fear it will corrupt there perfect idea of God. But what is there to fear with secular knowledge.

Many can look at secular knowledge, whether is creation through the idea of evolution, the formation of the planets and the age of the earth. All of these thing can be studied to the glory of God because it is the study of knowledge for the understanding of the way thing work, or the magnificence of His creation. But in all of the quest for the knowledge of the sciences to understand our place in the universe better, the quest of that knowledge does not come with the same temptation as does the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Secular knowledge in the sciences honors God by an innocent curiosity into understand his creation better. How we fit into it, and how best we begin to care fore it before our greed destroys it. But the one thing that the study of the sciences and secular knowledge in general. That knowledge does not come with the temptation and the promise that you will be like gods. That is not to say that some scientists do not see themselves as gods, but it is not the knowledge of the sciences that casts that god complex on some one. That is a promise and a temptation that exist only within the Bible. From the story of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden, to the effect that the law of Moses and the written commandments of the Book have over those who partake of its fruit. For as soon as they taste the fruit of the law, they forget their salvation and begin to judge one another by its knowledge thinking themselves to be gods. The Bible contains the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. The knowledge of good and evil is found in the Law. The Law condemns us of Sin and death.

Jesus died that we might be freed from sin. Not that we should never sin, but rather that we might walk before the Lord with a clean conscience in the face of sin. Jesus died to answer for or sins that were imposed under the law, the sins that were made known unto us when we partook of the fruit of the law. He has answered for these sins under the law so you might see clearly to look upon the one sin he has called you to repentance from. The Sin of Adam's transgression, for eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and then hiding from the voice of the Lord.

.

The tree of good and evil.

Our human senses. Able (in our natural state to embrace good and evil). As you pointed out scientists just embrace the natural side of creation, and actually worship the creation rather than the creator. We of faith seek to worship the creator and just use creation as a teaching tool. Romans 1:19-20

The book of Job has God sending the thoughts of men to creation. Isaiah 6 has Jesus being sent to mankind teaching in parables so seeing they do not get the information. Hearing does not convey without help. Matthew 13 and Mark 4 say the same thing about parables (science without the metaphysical of what is said by the parables).

Secular knowledge of science leaves men looking square into the truth hidden in creation, but devoid of understanding of the creator.


Thanks for your comments. I have done 20 minute multiple sessions with people before some of it sinks in. I realize my weaknesses (wretched man).

Read Job for a feeling of how God first speaks to man.

eddif

 

[ezrider]

Hey guys, lets stop the accusing each other of things that we are not privy to each others heart and position with our Savior. This line of posting will get us no where other than to have a Mod. close the thread.

Although I will not apologize for the things that I have written in this thread, I would like to send an apology to you Chopper for not understanding the intent or focus of the question of your OP. I had tried to ask you a question for clarification, but I am afraid by that time, the constant attacks on me caused me to look upon your question in a much different way than when I first responded to this thread and your OP. For this I am sorry, and going forward please know that there is no accusation nor animosity between us.

I will be the first to admit that when I heard you ask is the Old Testament still for me today, I immediately thought that you were asking if the demand and the works of the law were still for you today, and to this I would tell No. The requirement of the law are for you today. But that was my mistake; And know that you have restated the question again, I understand your question a little differently, though no different than when I first responded, only know I understand the answer with a little more clarity.

My heart EZ is that I have been a student of the Word of God since 1974 when I was saved by the Blood of Jesus by faith....Here is what I have found and what I'm searching for....I have found that from Genesis to Revelation, these Scriptures are for me to learn from and to hide the Word of God in my heart so that I won't sin against my God, Psalm 119:11. I view the entire Word of God, my refuge in times of confusion, sadness, change, spiritual warfare, and a host of other situations.

Chopper, I can not disagree with anything that you said except for one, and that shall be only for emphasis in the way that we express ourselves. For a moment, I must make a distinguishment between two uses of the term "Word of God" so there is no confusion in my meaning. Many call the Bible or the Scriptures the Word of God. I do not. I call the scriptures the scriptures, or the Bible, or the words of ink printed on the page of a book. But the "Word of God" in my mind if the Spirit of God that came and dwelt amongst us. I do not wish to glory on a book, I wish to glory in the knowledge of the Spirit of the One True God.

So with that thought in mind, how were you using the term the "Word of God" in this respect? There is a subtle difference between the two, and I wish to be clear that I choose to glory in the Lord and not in his book. That is why many seem to think that I am putting down the scripture, or disregarding the scripture entirely, but they just don't understand that I will not elevate the scriptures above the Lord, and I will not give my glory to a book.

Deuteronomy 33:27
The eternal God is thy refuge,

Psalms 9:9-11
The Lord also will be a refuge for the oppressed,
a refuge in times of trouble.
And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee:
for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.
Sing praises to the Lord, which dwelleth in Zion:
declare among the people his doings.

Psalms 46:7
The Lord of hosts is with us;
the God of Jacob is our refuge.

Psalms 62:5-8
My soul, wait thou only upon God;
for my expectation is from him.
He only is my rock and my salvation:
he is my defence; I shall not be moved.
In God is my salvation and my glory:
the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him:
God is a refuge for us. Selah

Isaiah 28:9-16
Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk,
and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little:
For with stammering lips and another tongue
will he speak to this people.
To whom he said,
This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;
and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken.
Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men,
that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Therefore thus saith the Lord God,
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
he that believeth shall not make haste.

.

 

[ezrider]

When I think back over 30+ years of teaching the Word of God in the churches that I was the pastor, I realize that the majority of messages were in the New Testament ....Now, as I study just for my own enjoyment, I am finding that the Old Testament with all its history and Commands, Statues, and Rules show me a side of Yahweh that I hadn't seen in the New Testament.

Again, please forgive me, for my own pet peeve linked to the idea of one studying the scriptures to obtain knowledge for themselves where they fall under the spell of trying to work out their own salvation by trying to live by the works of the law has blinded me to the question that you asked, and for that I am truly sorry. For the question that you ask is such a tremendous question. But you have answered yourself with your own question, though you probably do not realize it yet. Praise be to the Lord, for by the wording of your comment, He has shown me with clarity the answer to your question.

When you said that you study for your enjoyment, I knew you were not seeking the knowledge of the Law, and when you said that you had seen a different side of the Lord that you hadn't seen before, the word "show me" suddenly caused me to understand.

The books of the New Testament reveal to the believer the Son of Man, the man known as Jesus after the manner of His Flesh. The books are recorded as a witness and a testimony of the things that were said and beheld, so that we might believe in the Son of God, Jesus Christ, that it should be known that this was he whom the law and the prophet said would come. The Books of the New Testament reveal the man known as Jesus, His death and resurrection, as well as the works and testimony of his Apostles. This is what you find in the New Testament. The Word of the Law as it came forth from Zion, and the revelation of the man known has Jesus.

The books of the Old Testament are quite different though, because it contains things seen and yet unseen. And it comes with a Vail that keeps the reader blind to that which is written. And in our blindness, we create for ourselves the traditions of men. But when our heart is set upon Christ, then the vail shall be taken away. But if your heart is not upon Christ when you shall read it, then you will remain blinded to it, until the Spirit of the Lord should reveal it to you.

Only when your heart shall turn to Christ shall the vail be taken away when reading the old testament. But when that vail shall be taken away, then through that which remains hidden to our eyes shall the Spirit of the Lord reveal so that we might begin to understand not just what was written about the man we call Jesus, but about His Spirit. Through the writings of the Law and the Prophets by the leading of the Holy Spirit, then he shall show you the Righteousness of Christ, and He shall reveal to your hearts the Glory of the Lord in the risen Christ. With out the knowledge of the glory of the Lord revealed by the Holy Spirit, and if we only stuck to what is written in the new testament, then our temptation would be to worship for a God the image of a man.

The Old Testament pointed to the coming of the savior, Jesus Christ.
The New Testament makes known to you the man known as Jesus, the Word that He spoke and the Works that He performed.
If you believe upon the Word the he spoke, and you seek after Him with all of your heart, then by the power of the Holy Spirit He shall show you all that Christ accomplished that He might be Glorified.
The Old Testament will reveal the Glory of Christ in the new Covenant.

Since I strive to love Yahweh with all my heart, I desire to know all He has allowed me to learn of Him, and to pray that I might know more of His thoughts and ways....I want to know what New Testament Words are for me and what Words were for particular churches and people, not me, or is it?

Bottom line? Why disregard the Old Testament, except the way of Salvation, as something that doesn't pertain to me when I believe that it does because the Holy Spirit, it seems to me, delights in my studies of the Old Testament.

I have reference the disciples a number of times as the men who knew Jesus after the manner of a his flesh. They ate with him and drank with him. The learned from the very lips of the master himself. They witnessed his miracles, they saw Lazarus come forth from the grave. But as you find as recorded in Luke 24, they did not know him after that he had risen. They thought him to be a stranger, and he did not reveal himself to them. But he explained all the thing written in the law and the prophet concerning himself. The Glory of the risen Lord is revealed within the Old Testament if your heart be set upon Christ. But if you should look to the books to study some prophecy of man about an antichrist, then know that your eyes will remain blinded to the truth.

John 14:15-19
If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless:I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me:because I live, ye shall live also.

John 14:25-26
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26-27
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-14
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


Why do you suppose the many things that he had yet to say to them had to wait until the Spirit of the Lord showed it unto them. What was it that they could not bear while he was yet present with them in the flesh?

I hope after all of the misunderstanding and assumptions, after all of the clutter of comments, that this helps to shine a light on the questions that you have asked. May you receive it as a blessing.

.

 

[ezrider]

I do, actually, know and I suspected you would be offended before I said it. Just as an arrogant fool that I had stopped would drive on in spite of my having stopped him and told him the bridge he was about to cross was unsafe. I have not compared you to them but your teaching to theirs.

Bill, I understand that you think that you are warning me of something that you do not understand. I am not trying to be critical of you, and I hope you can receive this with all sincerity, but in your protestations toward me, you are acting more like the man called Saul rather than the man we know as Paul.

I can appreciate your attempt to try and warn me that you think the bridge ahead is unsafe to cross, or that the bridge is out and I can not pass. But truthfully, I think you have been caught off guard that I have arrived at a point were you feel the need to try and stop me because you think it is unsafe to continue down the path that the Lord has led me down. But what you don't know is that my eyes are not upon the bridge, nor do you know anything about my Faith. You do not realize that to arrive at the point where you feel the need to caution me, I have already come upon that mountain that has stood in my way, and I have said unto that mountain, be removed out of my way, and it was moved and no longer hinders may path.

My eyes are not upon the bridge that it should hold me back. If the bridge should happen to be out, then by Faith if the Spirit of the Lord should bid me to come forth and walk upon the water, then should I doubt? When Peter stepped forth from the boat, his faith carried him forth upon the waters while his eyes remained fixed upon Christ. But as soon as Peter turned his eyes to look upon his condition, he was filled with doubt and began to sink. The lesson in Peter is to keep mine eyes fixed upon the Lord.

While you think that you are warning me according to your own fears and doubts, know that your efforts are nothing but an attempt to cause me to look away from the Lord so that I might be filled with your doubt.

.

 

[ezrider]

ez,
You can hide behind your keyboard and make accusations and try to steer the conversation, just as you are doing now but One of us will answer for our vanity before God and all I am doing here has two proofs and those proofs I'll live by until the end. One, whom you've convinced to regard you as the King's own prophet has already climbed all over my rear end for being so mean to you but the truth is you misquote scripture, a life and death matter, you refuse to answer questions by attempting to flip some sort of guilt on the person asking and you, speaking mildly, are dishonoring God every time you add to or subtract from the scriptures, a matter we are warned three times never to do. The first warning from God is in Deuteronomy, the last is in the end of t
The Revelation of Jesus and the third I long ago have forgotten the address.

Your only prayer for not ticking God off so bad that He will not hear you is that pretend to be super spiritual and never give an address but you err in presenting them to me and to others that understand and have studied the Bible because you present them as Personal God Given Revelation in spite of Mal. 3:6a. Worry?

You view it as a life and death matter because you have still bound yourself to the covenant of the Law. For it was written to those who were under the Law that they should not add unto or subtract from the scriptures. But I am not under the covenant of law and the covenant with death that I should hide for fear from the voice of my Lord. I am bound to His covenant of Grace. And being dead to the law through His death and resurrection, what more power shall death hold over me?

He hath promised that by His Spirit that He would write His Laws into our hearts and minds. He hath promised that by His Spirit we should be the living gospel, not written in stone or on the pages of a book, but the expression of the gospel as it is written upon the fleshy tables of our heart. The true expression of the Word of God comes from the heart. The imposter has nothing but the scripture to quote.

You believe in the Bible, and you believe in Jesus Christ. The question is do you believe that He is able to perform that which was written?
You believe in Jesus, but have you heard His Words?

I have heard the Word of Jesus, He testified to me of the Father, and He demonstrated to me the power of the Holy Spirit that I might believe. I have heard the Father, he testified to me of His Son, and He has asked me to listen to the Voice of His Son.

Worry? Yes, I worry that short of repenting that you are in eternal trouble and I would give much to see you repent and grow close to the Spirit that has no issue with any of us checking Him against His recorded Word. Still praying for you.

Bill, I do not know who has placed this burden upon you that you should think my salvation is your responsibility: It is not. My salvation has not been given into your hands that you should overly concern yourself with such matters. My salvation rests in the hands of Christ and Christ alone. Whom ever has placed this burden upon you; I release you from this burden so that you might return again to check upon your own house, for the thief is at the door.

.

 

[Chopper]

Please, Please, EZ & Bill. Stop this bantering back and forth. If it should continue, I'll ask Reba or AirDancer to close this thread. Your statements are not in line with my thread. please,

 

[ezra]

i have lost all interest in the thread .it turned into my belief is better than yours...