Bible Study WHY!

[Deborah13]

Hi Deborah13, The Lord wrote the whole Bible for a reason. There is more to it than just salvation. If you did not understand what I wrote, I can not help it, it is Spiritual from beginning to end. The health of the body is dependent upon all it's parts. The things that you are concerned about are not of value to the hearer. In Luke 24: 13-31, Jesus quotes most of the OT so that they would know He was the Savior.

In Christ
Douglas Summers

Hi Deborah13, I know this question was to Bill, but i will answer what Salvation I gained. First, I gleaned what sin is to God, that God left it up to men to obey or disobey, that Satan can impostor himself as God, that he is sly (disguising himself)., that the first promise of a savior is in Gen. 3:15. The power of God to deliver. How God's Grace and promises are irrevocable, That He chastises those whom He loves. That all sinners are condemned to death. That in the beginning Adam and Eve were co-rulers of the earth. After sin, Adam lost dominion of the earth and Satan became ruler, and lots more.

After understanding how man, by pride (the first sin of man) had caused the curse upon the earth and the pain that it causes. I realized that I was Adam. My spirit was grieved. Man can not save himself. Moses prophiced of a man that was to come that we should do all that He says. (The Christ) Acts 26: 22-23

This is the post from you answering my question to Bill, which is fine that you answered it, too.The question that I asked and you gave this answer to, was about salvation and only salvation. I apologize if my post appeared rude that was not my intent. Your post left me with questions, so I asked. Specifically, you said that Moses told you what sin is to God. You said that once you understood Adam, you understood you were like him. I'm wasn't criticizing you for learning the way you did. I could have asked one question then and should have to clarify my understanding of what you said. Is the question below what you said?

So you are saying that you were saved until after you read at least a good part of the first books of Moses and understood what you read?

 

[Douglas Summers]

This is the post from you answering my question to Bill, which is fine that you answered it, too.The question that I asked and you gave this answer to, was about salvation and only salvation. I apologize if my post appeared rude that was not my intent. Your post left me with questions, so I asked. Specifically, you said that Moses told you what sin is to God. You said that once you understood Adam, you understood you were like him. I'm wasn't criticizing you for learning the way you did. I could have asked one question then and should have to clarify my understanding of what you said. Is the question below what you said?

So you are saying that you were saved until after you read at least a good part of the first books of Moses and understood what you read?

Hi Deborah13,, The answer is yes. Men in the flesh do not think they are that bad. By nature we think like Cain, that our good works out way the bad. We naturally judge our self by thinking we are not as bad as other people, even giving advice to other on how they ought to live. Rom.2:1-6 is a good example of what we are. These people that Paul is writing to were people that claimed they were moral (by their standards) but judging others as immoral.
Christ came for sinners, but I'm not that bad thinks the natural man. I'm not going to follow after a bunch simple people. I'm a man and I will stand my ground. Besides I'm as good as any one else. I ministered to a man I worked with for 32 years and that was his reply. He is got about 3 month to live and his wife asked me to preach his funeral. There will be no wake, just a grave side memorial. She could not find a minister for there will be no service. How do you memorialize a man who refuses God. Preach God's grace to those at the grave site that they might hear. So as I began to read Genesis and ponder on it and the promises of a redeemer it began to to say as I read the NT, this is the one they said would come. There is a lot more in the OT that pointed to the proof He was the Christ as the Son of David. This post could get lengthy. But I will admit, I always knew there was a God from a very young age....I just did not know Him.

In Christ
Douglas Summers

 

[Chopper]

Why would you say that it would mean that the new covenant had not yet been written? Not sure what you are driving at with that statement. You are awaiting the return of Jesus. If he should return and you were able to ask Him a question, would you listen for His answer or would you look for His answer in the Bible?


When I was young and had just left home and went off into the military I would participate in the lost art of letter writing. My mother would send me letters, and I would from time to time write one back as well. All these years later, my mother still writes me the occasional letter, though much more dialog occurs in a weekly phone call. Anyway, when I was young and alone out in the world for the first time, I found comfort in those letters and her words of encouragement carried me through. But when I talk on the phone with her, or when I go home to visit, or when she comes to visit me, I do not spend my time perusing through her old letters: We have a conversation. Now in the coarse of that conversation a topic from one of her letters may come up, and we might discuss what she wrote in that letter. If I didn't understand what she had meant or what she had intended with what she had written me, then in the coarse of our conversation I might ask her to clarify her thoughts so that I might understand. How could I gain the understanding from her letter when I did not understand what she meant in the letter in the first place?

.

When you asked me the question, "what I would ask Jesus", I assumed you were speaking of prior to the cross, not after. If Jesus should appear to me after the cross, I would ask Him "how much of the Old Covenant is binding on me? And, How much of the New Covenant is binding on me. In other words, How much of the whole Word of God is directly for me? How much of the Word of God is for only the Jew and only for the Church. How much is for only the Apostles, Prophets and other individuals?

 

[Chopper]

Would he? Or would he say you have wasted your time? What of the disciples, do you think they understood the old testament; the law and the prophets? They walked with Jesus for more than three years, and yet they did not understand the scriptures nor what was happening before their very eyes, but it was not for them to understand at that time. Theirs was to walk by faith and be a witness to the things they beheld and to testify of those things that they saw and heard.

Even after Jesus had risen and appeared unto the men along the way, and they presumed him to be a stranger in Jerusalem, he talked with them along the way asking why they were so sad. They explained to the man their hopes for their kingdom and what had happened to their Lord and how they presumed that He would be their King and the kingdom should be restored. Then the stranger expounded unto to them of all the things written from Moses to the prophets concerning Himself. And later when their eyes were opened and they knew who He was, vanishing from their sight, they reflected on how their hearts burned within themselves as He opened unto them the scriptures.

What is it that the Lord would expect you should already know? Are we to live by knowledge or live by faith. Of all the trees in the garden thou may eat, but of the tree of knowledge you shall not eat.

.

I'll lead off with this quote from 2 Peter Chapter 1.
2Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

I believe that, now that we have the completed canon of Scriptures, God expects me to order my life according to knowledge. How else am I going to activate His precious promises? Faith comes in believing what He has promised will take place. Your quote from Genesis 2:17 applied only to Adam and Eve, and not to me.

 

[Chopper]

Good to see you back Chopper, now I'll get out of the way.

Oh please, I depend on you to have my back, just like in a battle! Come to think about it, we are in a battle. Thanks!

 

[Deborah13]

But I will admit, I always knew there was a God from a very young age....I just did not know Him.

This is the same with me.

 

[Deborah13]

Oh please, I depend on you to have my back, just like in a battle! Come to think about it, we are in a battle. Thanks!

We are in a battle, just not with each other.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Oh please, I depend on you to have my back, just like in a battle! Come to think about it, we are in a battle. Thanks!

My service is my pleasure, friend.

 

[Chopper]

well in our adult s.s class we are in 1st Corinthians from about chapter 5 on it describes whats going on in the church land today especially chapter 7 its very much for us today.

Look at 7:1 1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: (KJV)
1Co 7:1 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: (ESV)

I hear what you're saying (writing) The Apostle Paul is writing this in answer to what the leaders of the Corinthian Church wrote to Paul for an answer....Where does it say that this is for me?

Ezra, our traditions have always been that the whole Word of God is for us. I just want some Scriptural proof of that. Otherwise What Jesus said to the disciples/Apostles were for them only. Letters to the churches were for the churches only, etc. etc.Since the Scripture points out that Israel and New Covenant saints are one, and since the Old Covenant commands not only effect Israel, they effect me as well. The only difference is, how we become righteous. Old Covenant ISRAEL,thru the Law then, now, same as us by Grace, faith, and believing in Jesus as their Messiah.

I'm very tired now, I'd better stop now.

 

[Chopper]

Oh Wow Chopper, your life is going to change. God bless you and your wife for giving this young boy a good Christian home to grow up in.

Thanks Deb. pray for us when you think of us.

 

[Chopper]

I believe, what I'm attempting to do in this thread, is to point out the absolute necessity of including the Old Covenant teaching on a level as the New Covenant. We need the whole counsel of God which includes both Old and New Covenants, just not to favor the New. We simply need to see how God dealt with His favored people Israel, and take heed to those examples.

 

[Deborah13]

I believe, what I'm attempting to do in this thread, is to point out the absolute necessity of including the Old Covenant teaching on a level as the New Covenant. We need the whole counsel of God which includes both Old and New Covenants, just not to favor the New. We simply need to see how God dealt with His favored people Israel, and take heed to those examples.

Do you mean the old covenant, as in the Law of Moses, or do you mean the whole old testament?

 

[eddif]

Corinthians is pretty much a book to Gentile pagans. The way to apply it to us? Were you the offspring of un believers ( I do not mean just Chopper)?

Very carefully Paul gives instructions to a pagan culture. The spiritual gifts and culture are new covenant Jewish. What? Well it is not circumcision and keeping the law of Moses. The kingdom message is internal hearts and mind rather than external ceremony.

You might even see the prophets doing spiritual gifts. Since the one new man is started you might get:

I Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Now this is a Jew explaining what a Jew got and it applying / sharing it by writing to Gentiles . So a Jew today could see the value.

Hebrews is to Jews that need to see their righteousness in Christ. Sort of the same righteousness as Gentiles, but without having to lay all the groundwork. The Jews sins were worse than the Gentiles around them, but they had the oracles of God. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.



eddif

 

[Obadiah]

Corinthians is pretty much a book to Gentile pagans.

I don't think so. The "church of God that is in Corinth" (1 Cor 1:1a ESV) was a Christian church, not a group of pagans. They were "those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours". (1 Cor 1:1b ESV) They, like myself, had their issues and problems, but they were not pagans.

 

[ezra]

Look at 7:1 1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: (KJV)
1Co 7:1 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: (ESV)

I hear what you're saying (writing) The Apostle Paul is writing this in answer to what the leaders of the Corinthian Church wrote to Paul for an answer....Where does it say that this is for me?

Ezra, our traditions have always been that the whole Word of God is for us. I just want some Scriptural proof of that. Otherwise What Jesus said to the disciples/Apostles were for them only. Letters to the churches were for the churches only, etc. etc.Since the Scripture points out that Israel and New Covenant saints are one, and since the Old Covenant commands not only effect Israel, they effect me as well. The only difference is, how we become righteous. Old Covenant ISRAEL,thru the Law then, now, same as us by Grace, faith, and believing in Jesus as their Messiah.

I'm very tired now, I'd better stop now.

i would challenge as to show that they are not.. i understand what your saying . as we read the N.T .i see the repeat of some of the very things the Church is dealing with today. i use this term we are spiritual Israel for as we have been grafted into the vine. thats my point my post was not so much as a big major disagreement. but as a comment . maybe you will find your scripture. personally i don't think you will.

 

[ezra]

I believe, what I'm attempting to do in this thread, is to point out the absolute necessity of including the Old Covenant teaching on a level as the New Covenant. We need the whole counsel of God which includes both Old and New Covenants, just not to favor the New. We simply need to see how God dealt with His favored people Israel, and take heed to those examples.

i can agree with that

 

[eddif]

I don't think so. The "church of God that is in Corinth" (1 Cor 1:1a ESV) was a Christian church, not a group of pagans. They were "those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours". (1 Cor 1:1b ESV) They, like myself, had their issues and problems, but they were not pagans.

I Corinthians 12:2
Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Sorry.

My intent was to contrast Jewish from Gentile books.


We are all changed no matter what our family or individual history.

eddif

 

[Obadiah]

I Corinthians 12:2
Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Sorry.

My intent was to contrast Jewish from Gentile books.


We are all changed no matter what our family or individual history.

eddif

Oh, I see. I think you were saying that the people of the church of Corinth used to be pagans then? As opposed to Jews? I get that. I took it you were saying that they still were pagans when Paul was writing to them.

 

[eddif]

Oh, I see. I think you were saying that the people of the church of Corinth used to be pagans then? As opposed to Jews? I get that. I took it you were saying that they still were pagans when Paul was writing to them.

I should have been more careful.

Yes they were changed. Paul just had to be honest about the dual nature (for lack of a better term) when he wrote Romans 7:25

Mind of Christ wise the Corinthians are good to go. Their flesh is still being addressed though. I sure look forward to the final changes at the last trump. The Gentiles did the the things the law said (the lawful saying - an ox is a bishop).


eddif

 

[ezrider]

When you asked me the question, "what I would ask Jesus", I assumed you were speaking of prior to the cross, not after. If Jesus should appear to me after the cross, I would ask Him "how much of the Old Covenant is binding on me? And, How much of the New Covenant is binding on me. In other words, How much of the whole Word of God is directly for me? How much of the Word of God is for only the Jew and only for the Church. How much is for only the Apostles, Prophets and other individuals?

Chopper my friend, I did not ask you "what you would ask Jesus."

So now that we are both on the same page, understanding that this is a rhetorical question: I am asking if Jesus were present with you in the here and now, and you could ask all the questions that you wanted, would you then go the scripture to look for his answer?

OR

Would you wait upon His answer and then let Him show you what was written in the scriptures?

.