Will all born-again Christians make it to heaven?

[iLOVE]

False Teaching

4 For certain men have crept in stealthily [[c]gaining entrance secretly by a side door]. Their doom was predicted long ago, ungodly (impious, profane) persons who pervert the grace (the spiritual blessing and favor) of our God into lawlessness and wantonness and immorality, and disown and deny our sole Master and Lord, Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). Jude 1:4 AMP

11 Woe to them! For they have run riotously in the way of Cain, and have abandoned themselves for the sake of gain [it offers them, following] the error of Balaam, and have perished in rebellion [like that] of Korah! Jude 1:11 AMP

 

[francisdesales]

Being sealed only denotes "ownership". It does not guarantee inheritance. Saul of the OT was also "sealed" with God's Spirit. Being sealed doesn't mean we no longer have to live out our faith in love.

Regards

Jesus said all that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never cast out. Sounds like a done deal to me....well at least for me it does i can't speak for any of you guys....sure hope it is a done deal for you all to.

We cast ourselves out by returning to the vomit of our former lives. Jesus doesn't push us into that....

Regards

I haven't vomited in a long time....and i didn't enjoy it very much. You may cast yourself out dude but Jesus said he will never cast me out. Paul said that God chose me before the foundation of the world....like i said...done deal.

I hope that is not your argument to convince me that I need to change my mind about this...

I am not saying you are vomiting. I am not saying you are casting yourself out. Nor am I, "dude". I am just saying that the BIBLE says it can be and HAS been done. Denying that is pointless.

Live in the world of reality. Know that it can happen. Keep abiding in Christ, and you'll be fine.

Regards

 

[Grappler]

We cast ourselves out by returning to the vomit of our former lives. Jesus doesn't push us into that....

Regards

I haven't vomited in a long time....and i didn't enjoy it very much. You may cast yourself out dude but Jesus said he will never cast me out. Paul said that God chose me before the foundation of the world....like i said...done deal.

I hope that is not your argument to convince me that I need to change my mind about this...

I am not saying you are vomiting. I am not saying you are casting yourself out. Nor am I, "dude". I am just saying that the BIBLE says it can be and HAS been done. Denying that is pointless.

Live in the world of reality. Know that it can happen. Keep abiding in Christ, and you'll be fine.

Regards

If you are not a dude then you must be a dudette.lol Anyways... dude don't take yourself so serious...Jesus said that he would never cast me out...so yeah you are correct i will be fine. But you?? i don't know...you seem to be basing your salvation on your own works and merit....not a good idea dude. Put your trust in Jesus and you will be fine.

 

[francisdesales]

We cast ourselves out by returning to the vomit of our former lives. Jesus doesn't push us into that....

Regards

I haven't vomited in a long time....and i didn't enjoy it very much. You may cast yourself out dude but Jesus said he will never cast me out. Paul said that God chose me before the foundation of the world....like i said...done deal.

I hope that is not your argument to convince me that I need to change my mind about this...

I am not saying you are vomiting. I am not saying you are casting yourself out. Nor am I, "dude". I am just saying that the BIBLE says it can be and HAS been done. Denying that is pointless.

Live in the world of reality. Know that it can happen. Keep abiding in Christ, and you'll be fine.

Regards

If you are not a dude then you must be a dudette.lol Anyways... dude don't take yourself so serious...Jesus said that he would never cast me out...so yeah you are correct i will be fine. But you?? i don't know...you seem to be basing your salvation on your own works and merit....not a good idea dude. Put your trust in Jesus and you will be fine.

OK, I'm a dude...

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

You will be fine if you remain in Jesus. If you don't, you won't be fine.

As to "work", my good deeds are proof that Christ is working in me. I can't do anything good without Him. If you don't have them, He is not there, and you are not "fine", no matter what you think. Haven't you read 1 John? When you obey the commandments, you are abiding in Christ. It is not based upon what you SAY, but what you are DOING. DO the will of the Father, not just say "Lord, Lord"... Let God's Spirit work in you, Grappler.

What do you think of my signature line?

Regards

 

[Guest]

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

Fortunately, you're wrong and thank the Lord for that.

 

[Grappler]

I hope that is not your argument to convince me that I need to change my mind about this...

I am not saying you are vomiting. I am not saying you are casting yourself out. Nor am I, "dude". I am just saying that the BIBLE says it can be and HAS been done. Denying that is pointless.

Live in the world of reality. Know that it can happen. Keep abiding in Christ, and you'll be fine.

Regards

If you are not a dude then you must be a dudette.lol Anyways... dude don't take yourself so serious...Jesus said that he would never cast me out...so yeah you are correct i will be fine. But you?? i don't know...you seem to be basing your salvation on your own works and merit....not a good idea dude. Put your trust in Jesus and you will be fine.

OK, I'm a dude...

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

You will be fine if you remain in Jesus. If you don't, you won't be fine.

As to "work", my good deeds are proof that Christ is working in me. I can't do anything good without Him. If you don't have them, He is not there, and you are not "fine", no matter what you think. Haven't you read 1 John? When you obey the commandments, you are abiding in Christ. It is not based upon what you SAY, but what you are DOING. DO the will of the Father, not just say "Lord, Lord"... Let God's Spirit work in you, Grappler.

What do you think of my signature line?

Regards

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:37. Now listen francis...it is okay to argue your points using scripture, but when you blatantly deny scripture how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

 

[John Zain]

Let us consider what He has done for us... There is no fear that a perception of what He has given you
will puff you up, so long as you keep steadily in mind that whatever is good in you is not of yourself.

This certainly is a sales job, if I ever heard one!

 

[Deborah13]

Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. 1 Cor 3:16-17

Paul is talking about Christians stirring the pot and causing trouble...

What I see Paul teaching here is how he and Apollos has built a firm foundation built on the gospel of Christ and that if anyone, especially those in the position of authority (as they were) that teaching anything else they are defiling the temple of God. The very hearts of the people.

The temple of God is in each of our hearts and we need to be careful to build everything on the gospel of Christ.

Verses 14 - 15v. just before what you quoted says this...

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If our work's are built on the gospel, Jesus, died, buried, and arose.....there is reward.
But if our work's are not built on Christ's work at the cross and His resurrection, they will be burnt up, he will lose rewards, but still is saved.

I can agree that the seal of the Holy Spirit can be seen as a seal of "ownership". Even under OT law a child was owned by the parent. We are owned by God, we are His children.

It reminds me of the woman a few yrs. ago who adopted a little boy from Russia. She got him here and decided she didn't like him and tried to send him back on an airplane. That woman had taken responsibility for that boy, he was hers. Just what kind of a parent would do that!

God is not like this woman. He doesn't adopt and send back. He will keep us.
We may not receives rewards in heaven or blessings on earth but we will be saved.

These verses are so clear I don't see how they can be disputed.

Blessings

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

Fortunately, you're wrong and thank the Lord for that.

Should be easy for you to prove it with a verse from Scripture???

 

[Guest]

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

Fortunately, you're wrong and thank the Lord for that.

Should be easy for you to prove it with a verse from Scripture???

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[francisdesales]

I hope that is not your argument to convince me that I need to change my mind about this...

I am not saying you are vomiting. I am not saying you are casting yourself out. Nor am I, "dude". I am just saying that the BIBLE says it can be and HAS been done. Denying that is pointless.

Live in the world of reality. Know that it can happen. Keep abiding in Christ, and you'll be fine.

Regards

If you are not a dude then you must be a dudette.lol Anyways... dude don't take yourself so serious...Jesus said that he would never cast me out...so yeah you are correct i will be fine. But you?? i don't know...you seem to be basing your salvation on your own works and merit....not a good idea dude. Put your trust in Jesus and you will be fine.

OK, I'm a dude...

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

You will be fine if you remain in Jesus. If you don't, you won't be fine.

As to "work", my good deeds are proof that Christ is working in me. I can't do anything good without Him. If you don't have them, He is not there, and you are not "fine", no matter what you think. Haven't you read 1 John? When you obey the commandments, you are abiding in Christ. It is not based upon what you SAY, but what you are DOING. DO the will of the Father, not just say "Lord, Lord"... Let God's Spirit work in you, Grappler.

What do you think of my signature line?

Regards

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:37. Now listen francis...it is okay to argue your points using scripture, but when you blatantly deny scripture how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

I am not "blatantly denying Scriptures", I just don't agree with your INTERPRETATION of them.

Clearly, this is about whether Jesus would reject a sinner who comes to Him for forgiveness. It is not even on the topic we are speaking about - perseverance UNTIL THE END.

This expression does not refer to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, but to the fact that Jesus will not reject or refuse any sinner who comes to him and be forgiven.

"Him who comes": Ps 102:17; Is 1:18; Is 55:7; Mt 11:28; Lk 23:42-43; 1 Tim 1:15,16; Rev 22:17

persevere until the end. What does that mean to YOU?

 

[francisdesales]

Let us consider what He has done for us... There is no fear that a perception of what He has given you
will puff you up, so long as you keep steadily in mind that whatever is good in you is not of yourself.

This certainly is a sales job, if I ever heard one!

I'll allow you to use it for free

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

Fortunately, you're wrong and thank the Lord for that.

Should be easy for you to prove it with a verse from Scripture???

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Yes, we have an inheritance awaiting us, a promise given to us by the Spirit. Again, nothing about whether an individual would still receive this inheritance if they disown it.

A prince can be born into a family and inherit a kingdom. At a certain time, he becomes king, not because anything he did.

However, the prince can disown his father and leave, refusing to accept his inheritance.

We do that when we return to the ways of the flesh.

Work out your salvation in fear and trembling - because you already received it and nothing can be done to take it away... Yea, OK...

 

[francisdesales]

Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. 1 Cor 3:16-17

Paul is talking about Christians stirring the pot and causing trouble...

What I see Paul teaching here is how he and Apollos has built a firm foundation built on the gospel of Christ and that if anyone, especially those in the position of authority (as they were) that teaching anything else they are defiling the temple of God. The very hearts of the people.

The temple of God is in each of our hearts and we need to be careful to build everything on the gospel of Christ.

Verses 14 - 15v. just before what you quoted says this...

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If our work's are built on the gospel, Jesus, died, buried, and arose.....there is reward.
But if our work's are not built on Christ's work at the cross and His resurrection, they will be burnt up, he will lose rewards, but still is saved.

I can agree that the seal of the Holy Spirit can be seen as a seal of "ownership". Even under OT law a child was owned by the parent. We are owned by God, we are His children.

It reminds me of the woman a few yrs. ago who adopted a little boy from Russia. She got him here and decided she didn't like him and tried to send him back on an airplane. That woman had taken responsibility for that boy, he was hers. Just what kind of a parent would do that!

God is not like this woman. He doesn't adopt and send back. He will keep us.
We may not receives rewards in heaven or blessings on earth but we will be saved.

These verses are so clear I don't see how they can be disputed.

Blessings

Continue reading 1 Cor 3. Up to verse 17.

Destroyed does not indicate a "lesser reward" does it???

 

[Deborah13]

Let us consider what He has done for us... There is no fear that a perception of what He has given you
will puff you up, so long as you keep steadily in mind that whatever is good in you is not of yourself.

This certainly is a sales job, if I ever heard one!

I totally agree with [MENTION=3354]francisdesales[/MENTION] signature.

 

[Guest]

Should be easy for you to prove it with a verse from Scripture???

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Yes, we have an inheritance awaiting us, a promise given to us by the Spirit. Again, nothing about whether an individual would still receive this inheritance if they disown it.

A prince can be born into a family and inherit a kingdom. At a certain time, he becomes king, not because anything he did.

However, the prince can disown his father and leave, refusing to accept his inheritance.

We do that when we return to the ways of the flesh.

Work out your salvation in fear and trembling - because you already received it and nothing can be done to take it away... Yea, OK...

No sir, if they disown it, they were never born again to begin with. These people are called apostates, false prophets. The only difference between the king, prince, kingdom and inheritance that you speak of is that the king isn't God the Father, the prince isn't a born again christian, the kingdom is not of heaven and the inheritance is not from heaven. You're underestimating the power and love of God the Father, that's not good.

 

[Deborah13]

Continue reading 1 Cor 3. Up to verse 17.

I did, I read it the first time you wrote it. But it's a continuing teaching. We can't pull it out of context.

1Co 3:17: Taken in context, this verse is continuing the same thought that was expressed in the illustration of the different building materials (1Co 3:12-15). Remember that Paul said those who were guilty of using the wrong building materials (works of the flesh - see note 3 at 1Co 3:13) would suffer loss, but they themselves would be saved (see note 6 at 1Co 3:15). Therefore, Paul was not speaking of utter destruction when he used the word "destroy."
The Greek word that was translated "destroy" here is "PHTHEIRO." It was only used in seven scriptures in the New Testament, and six of those times, it was translated "corrupt" or "corrupted" (1Co 15:33; 2Co 7:2, 11:3; Eph 4:22; Jude 10; and Re 19:2). The only two other translations are here in 1Co 3:17. This same Greek word that was translated "destroy" was also translated "defile" here.
http://www.awmi.net/bible/1co_03_17

The commentary goes on to speak of how in the OT the temple being defiled, etc.

 

[Grappler]

OK, I'm a dude...

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

You will be fine if you remain in Jesus. If you don't, you won't be fine.

As to "work", my good deeds are proof that Christ is working in me. I can't do anything good without Him. If you don't have them, He is not there, and you are not "fine", no matter what you think. Haven't you read 1 John? When you obey the commandments, you are abiding in Christ. It is not based upon what you SAY, but what you are DOING. DO the will of the Father, not just say "Lord, Lord"... Let God's Spirit work in you, Grappler.

What do you think of my signature line?

Regards

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:37. Now listen francis...it is okay to argue your points using scripture, but when you blatantly deny scripture how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

I am not "blatantly denying Scriptures", I just don't agree with your INTERPRETATION of them.

Clearly, this is about whether Jesus would reject a sinner who comes to Him for forgiveness. It is not even on the topic we are speaking about - perseverance UNTIL THE END.

This expression does not refer to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, but to the fact that Jesus will not reject or refuse any sinner who comes to him and be forgiven.

"Him who comes": Ps 102:17; Is 1:18; Is 55:7; Mt 11:28; Lk 23:42-43; 1 Tim 1:15,16; Rev 22:17
persevere until the end. What does that mean to YOU?

Your opinion....Lets try this scripture out shall we? " No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:44 Now we see here that you or I couldn't even choose Jesus to begin with on our own much less our works having any meaning on whether we perservere or not. You really need to let go of your pride in your works and focus on what Jesus did for you and be thankful and celebrate....those who sit around worrying about losing their salvation probably don't have it to lose to begin with.

 

[Deborah13]

Work out your salvation in fear and trembling - because you already received it and nothing can be done to take it away... Yea, OK...

This is my understanding of "work out your own salvation"
Psalm 2:11
Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Strongs H3374 - fear (of God), respect, reverence, piety

My paraphrase would be " Serve the Lord with reverence and tremble with joy.

Mark 5:33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

This was the woman with the issue of blood. Why was she fearing and trembling, because she knew "what was done in her".

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (knowing what was done in you) the gift of salvation, the gift of righteousness

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

 

[francisdesales]

OK, I'm a dude...

Jesus did not say that He would never cast you out.

You will be fine if you remain in Jesus. If you don't, you won't be fine.

As to "work", my good deeds are proof that Christ is working in me. I can't do anything good without Him. If you don't have them, He is not there, and you are not "fine", no matter what you think. Haven't you read 1 John? When you obey the commandments, you are abiding in Christ. It is not based upon what you SAY, but what you are DOING. DO the will of the Father, not just say "Lord, Lord"... Let God's Spirit work in you, Grappler.

What do you think of my signature line?

Regards

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:37. Now listen francis...it is okay to argue your points using scripture, but when you blatantly deny scripture how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

I am not "blatantly denying Scriptures", I just don't agree with your INTERPRETATION of them.

Clearly, this is about whether Jesus would reject a sinner who comes to Him for forgiveness. It is not even on the topic we are speaking about - perseverance UNTIL THE END.

This expression does not refer to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, but to the fact that Jesus will not reject or refuse any sinner who comes to him and be forgiven.

"Him who comes": Ps 102:17; Is 1:18; Is 55:7; Mt 11:28; Lk 23:42-43; 1 Tim 1:15,16; Rev 22:17
persevere until the end. What does that mean to YOU?

Your opinion....Lets try this scripture out shall we? " No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:44 Now we see here that you or I couldn't even choose Jesus to begin with on our own much less our works having any meaning on whether we perservere or not. You really need to let go of your pride in your works and focus on what Jesus did for you and be thankful and celebrate....those who sit around worrying about losing their salvation probably don't have it to lose to begin with.

I don't know anyone "sitting around worried about losing their salvation". Dude...

Those who are in Christ crucify the desires of the flesh. I hope you are working on that and not thinking some little 15 minute emotional experience grants you eternal bliss in heaven!

I pray that God grants me the persevance to remain in Him until the end. You should, too.

Have to go, I am going to go to Mass right now and offer myself to the Father in union with Christ. With Christ, I will say "This is my body" and "This is my blood". "Take it and do what you will with it, Heavenly Father"

Regards