Will all born-again Christians make it to heaven?

[Guest]

It is a misnomer, because we aren't born again spiritually, we never WERE born spiritually the first time to be "born again" spiritually.

The flesh doesn't matter, in this case, so fleshy birth is inconsequential to the context. Being born from above suggests it is God's doing, and that is the important point.

Very good, i just have to clear some things up. We are born again spiritually, but the first birth from your mothers womb is not spiritual. Well, how are you born twice. You are first born of water in your mothers womb as a baby. However, later in life, I believe after reaching the age of 20 you now have the ability to be born again. Well, you might ask how can you be born again when you already exist. The second birth is in fact spiritual. Do you know why?

 

[francisdesales]

Actually, the proper term is "born from above". The root word means both "above" and "again", but Jesus corrects Nicodemus' "again" with "above"...

Well, what Jesus said could mean "again" or "above", but even if scholars unanimously concluded that it meant "above", "again" would still be automatically implied. I would have to say that an "again" interpretation is a win/win situation.

It is a misnomer, because we aren't born again spiritually, we never WERE born spiritually the first time to be "born again" spiritually.

The flesh doesn't matter, in this case, so fleshy birth is inconsequential to the context. Being born from above suggests it is God's doing, and that is the important point.

Regards

Yes, Francis, I can possibly subscribe to that.

I will concede the point that I thought was rock-solid.

Unbelievable!

The funny thing is that after I hit "Submit Reply", I realized that "from above" could exist entirely without the "again" baggage that I initially thought was unavoidable, if one subscribes to the Calvinistic view, and believes that God chooses who is born "from above" and who isn't(I don't subscribe to that, but the somewhat popular belief exists, nevertheless).

However, I never suspected that you, Francis, would come unsuspectedly from left field, and turn my prematurely-cocky world upside down!


Having said that, I am only conceding to being closed-minded, and not allowing for any other dissenting possibilities. I am not conceding that our natural earthly birthday is insignificant enough to not even qualify as one of our births. In other words, I am only conceding that it is still up for debate. :crazy

Well, I must say your humility is refreshing - I wish I was able to so easily admit that I was wrong when provided a bit of correction! :p

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

It is a misnomer, because we aren't born again spiritually, we never WERE born spiritually the first time to be "born again" spiritually.

The flesh doesn't matter, in this case, so fleshy birth is inconsequential to the context. Being born from above suggests it is God's doing, and that is the important point.

Very good, i just have to clear some things up. We are born again spiritually, but the first birth from your mothers womb is not spiritual. Well, how are you born twice. You are first born of water in your mothers womb as a baby. However, later in life, I believe after reaching the age of 20 you now have the ability to be born again. Well, you might ask how can you be born again when you already exist. The second birth is in fact spiritual. Do you know why?

Well, there is rightly no point in mentioning the first birth here. It is quite obvious that one must be born physically - without existence, is there any point about talking about spiritual birth?

I don't think that age has any factor in whether a person is born from ABOVE. Think about it. WHO is providing the birth? Isn't it FROM ABOVE? I agree that one must be of a mature age for that seed planted to begin to grow to Christian maturity. But to ME, baptism is not dependent upon age or ability. That overturns the entire point of being born from ABOVE.

Regards

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Well, I must say your humility is refreshing - I wish I was able to so easily admit that I was wrong when provided a bit of correction! :p

Regards

:toofunny

 

[francisdesales]

Well, I must say your humility is refreshing - I wish I was able to so easily admit that I was wrong when provided a bit of correction! :p

Regards

:toofunny

My job here is done. I have made someone laugh!

 

[John Zain]

Whoopie! ... now, maybe we can get back to the OP!

 

[Guest]

I agree that one must be of a mature age for that seed planted to begin to grow to Christian maturity. But to ME, baptism is not dependent upon age or ability. That overturns the entire point of being born from ABOVE.Regards

Isn't there an age of accountability in the Bible. I always thought it said 20. I think this topic might be a mystery in itself.

 

[francisdesales]

I agree that one must be of a mature age for that seed planted to begin to grow to Christian maturity. But to ME, baptism is not dependent upon age or ability. That overturns the entire point of being born from ABOVE.Regards

Isn't there an age of accountability in the Bible. I always thought it said 20. I think this topic might be a mystery in itself.

I don't know, but I do know that the Jews circumcised infants into the Covenant, and since Baptism replaces circumcision as the rite of entrance into the New Covenant, why would one need to wait, if it is a gift from above...?

Now, back to the topic...

How can someone tell that they won't be an apostate in the FUTURE, thus (according to some) making their "born again status" in 1980 a sham???

This doesn't seem to offer security, in my mind, if my entire life in Christ was fake and I thought it was real...

Regards

 

[John 8:32]

I don't know, but I do know that the Jews circumcised infants into the Covenant, and since Baptism replaces circumcision as the rite of entrance into the New Covenant, why would one need to wait, if it is a gift from above...?

Regards

Not sure about that...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Since eternal life was not promised under the Old Covenant, I don't see circumcision as the O.C. baptism. N.C. circumcision seems to be the method of entering into the Covenant with Abraham...

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[berk60]

I don't know, but I do know that the Jews circumcised infants into the Covenant, and since Baptism replaces circumcision as the rite of entrance into the New Covenant, why would one need to wait, if it is a gift from above...?

My mom doesn't believe she needs to be born again because as an infant she was baptized. She says that she knows why Jesus died. Does that mean she is saved?

 

[Guest]

I don't know, but I do know that the Jews circumcised infants into the Covenant, and since Baptism replaces circumcision as the rite of entrance into the New Covenant, why would one need to wait, if it is a gift from above...?

Now, back to the topic...

How can someone tell that they won't be an apostate in the FUTURE, thus (according to some) making their "born again status" in 1980 a sham???

This doesn't seem to offer security, in my mind, if my entire life in Christ was fake and I thought it was real...

Regards

Yes salvation is a gift, but are we asking, seeking and knocking for it. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: A true born again christian is washed in the blood of Christ. Once you are converted, that's it. You are sealed in the Holy Spirit until death. That's his promise to you. You will know them by their fruits. These fruits are from a heavenly order. These fruits are not done by your works, but by the works of Jesus and what he did on the cross.

 

[Guest]

My mom doesn't believe she needs to be born again because as an infant she was baptized. She says that she knows why Jesus died. Does that mean she is saved?

No, she was baptized in water when she was an infant, but scripture says that you must be baptized in the Holy Spirit also. You must be born a second time. John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Confessing your sins every sunday, going to church and doing good deeds your whole life will not get you into heaven. She would have to accept Jesus into her heart by believing and confessing. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[Guest]

What are we believing and confessing in Romans 10:9.

 

[Jamesone5]

Lord, thank you that this question is not something that I get to decide.

Amen

 

[berk60]

What are we believing and confessing in Romans 10:9.

We are confessing that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead and believing that we have received the gift of grace in that Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross. Jesus' resurrection was the crowning moment that what he prophesied came true. He would rise on the third day. This is the proof that He is everything that He said He was.

 

[Guest]

Lord, thank you that this question is not something that I get to decide.

No, you do get to decide. Are you asking, seeking and knocking for his salvation? Accepting Jesus into your heart is your choice based upon free will, and also the best choice you will ever make. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

What are we believing and confessing in Romans 10:9.

We are confessing that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead and believing that we have received the gift of grace in that Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross. Jesus' resurrection was the crowning moment that what he prophesied came true. He would rise on the third day. This is the proof that He is everything that He said He was.

Yes! Very good berk60, now go tell your mom that Jesus is alive.

 

[berk60]

Yes! Very good berk60, now go tell your mom that Jesus is alive.

I have many times but it is her believe that she must also keep the sacraments of her faith in addition to what Jesus has done. Almost like Jesus opened the door to grace but she must participate in certain things to have them administered to her in order for grace to be effective.

 

[Guest]

Yes! Very good berk60, now go tell your mom that Jesus is alive.

I have many times but it is her believe that she must also keep the sacraments of her faith in addition to what Jesus has done. Almost like Jesus opened the door to grace but she must participate in certain things to have them administered to her in order for grace to be effective.

Participate in certain things? No berk, that's religious nonsense and also an excuse to keep walking in sin. Salvation for your mom is available at anytime. It's her faith in who Jesus Christ is that will convert her. FAITH!

 

[berk60]

Participate in certain things? No berk, that's religious nonsense and also an excuse to keep walking in sin. Salvation for your mom is available at anytime. It's her faith in who Jesus Christ is that will convert her. FAITH!

I totally agree with you but somethings missing because she is unwilling to let go of what's hindering her from fully accepting the Bible as the authority in her life.

 

[Guest]

Participate in certain things? No berk, that's religious nonsense and also an excuse to keep walking in sin. Salvation for your mom is available at anytime. It's her faith in who Jesus Christ is that will convert her. FAITH!

I totally agree with you but somethings missing because she is unwilling to let go of what's hindering her from fully accepting the Bible as the authority in her life.

Accepting Jesus into your heart is the best choice you will ever make in this lifetime, but at the same time the hardest choice. Sin is what's hindering her. Going to church every sunday and doing good deeds is good and all, but then there's the real thing. Pray for her, and talk to her about Jesus. Tell her that Jesus isn't just a name in a book or a picture on google. Jesus is ALIVE! Ask her what that means to her. Once she accepts Jesus into her heart, the words in the Bible also become alive in her heart. Blessings.