Will all born-again Christians make it to heaven?

[Guest]

Actually, it's not sin that's hindering her. It's her unbelief in who Jesus Christ is.

 

[francisdesales]

I don't know, but I do know that the Jews circumcised infants into the Covenant, and since Baptism replaces circumcision as the rite of entrance into the New Covenant, why would one need to wait, if it is a gift from above...?

Regards

Not sure about that...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Since eternal life was not promised under the Old Covenant, I don't see circumcision as the O.C. baptism. N.C. circumcision seems to be the method of entering into the Covenant with Abraham...

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Fair enough. This is off topic, so we can discuss that later, I guess.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I don't know, but I do know that the Jews circumcised infants into the Covenant, and since Baptism replaces circumcision as the rite of entrance into the New Covenant, why would one need to wait, if it is a gift from above...?

Now, back to the topic...

How can someone tell that they won't be an apostate in the FUTURE, thus (according to some) making their "born again status" in 1980 a sham???

This doesn't seem to offer security, in my mind, if my entire life in Christ was fake and I thought it was real...

Regards

Yes salvation is a gift, but are we asking, seeking and knocking for it. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: A true born again christian is washed in the blood of Christ. Once you are converted, that's it. You are sealed in the Holy Spirit until death. That's his promise to you. You will know them by their fruits. These fruits are from a heavenly order. These fruits are not done by your works, but by the works of Jesus and what he did on the cross.

Being sealed only denotes "ownership". It does not guarantee inheritance. Saul of the OT was also "sealed" with God's Spirit. Being sealed doesn't mean we no longer have to live out our faith in love.

Regards

 

[Guest]

Being sealed only denotes "ownership". It does not guarantee inheritance. Saul of the OT was also "sealed" with God's Spirit. Being sealed doesn't mean we no longer have to live out our faith in love.

It does guarantee our inheritance, our faith in love will never cease. It's impossible to no longer live without it, as you put it. It's impossible because Jesus will never stop loving us. Our faith is continually active in him, because Jesus is alive in heaven and will never die. 1 Peter 1:4-5 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Notice is says fadeth not away, reserved and kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

 

[Grappler]

I don't know, but I do know that the Jews circumcised infants into the Covenant, and since Baptism replaces circumcision as the rite of entrance into the New Covenant, why would one need to wait, if it is a gift from above...?

Now, back to the topic...

How can someone tell that they won't be an apostate in the FUTURE, thus (according to some) making their "born again status" in 1980 a sham???

This doesn't seem to offer security, in my mind, if my entire life in Christ was fake and I thought it was real...

Regards

Yes salvation is a gift, but are we asking, seeking and knocking for it. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: A true born again christian is washed in the blood of Christ. Once you are converted, that's it. You are sealed in the Holy Spirit until death. That's his promise to you. You will know them by their fruits. These fruits are from a heavenly order. These fruits are not done by your works, but by the works of Jesus and what he did on the cross.

Being sealed only denotes "ownership". It does not guarantee inheritance. Saul of the OT was also "sealed" with God's Spirit. Being sealed doesn't mean we no longer have to live out our faith in love.

Regards

Jesus said all that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never cast out. Sounds like a done deal to me....well at least for me it does i can't speak for any of you guys....sure hope it is a done deal for you all to.

 

[Guest]

Jesus said all that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never cast out. Sounds like a done deal to me....well at least for me it does i can't speak for any of you guys....sure hope it is a done deal for you all to.

Yes, it's a done deal.

 

[Grappler]

Jesus said all that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never cast out. Sounds like a done deal to me....well at least for me it does i can't speak for any of you guys....sure hope it is a done deal for you all to.

Yes, it's a done deal.

good...we may disagree on some things but we can agree on this can't we?

 

[Guest]

Absolutely, we need to tell Butch5 about the good news too.

 

[francisdesales]

I don't know, but I do know that the Jews circumcised infants into the Covenant, and since Baptism replaces circumcision as the rite of entrance into the New Covenant, why would one need to wait, if it is a gift from above...?

Now, back to the topic...

How can someone tell that they won't be an apostate in the FUTURE, thus (according to some) making their "born again status" in 1980 a sham???

This doesn't seem to offer security, in my mind, if my entire life in Christ was fake and I thought it was real...

Regards

Yes salvation is a gift, but are we asking, seeking and knocking for it. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: A true born again christian is washed in the blood of Christ. Once you are converted, that's it. You are sealed in the Holy Spirit until death. That's his promise to you. You will know them by their fruits. These fruits are from a heavenly order. These fruits are not done by your works, but by the works of Jesus and what he did on the cross.

Being sealed only denotes "ownership". It does not guarantee inheritance. Saul of the OT was also "sealed" with God's Spirit. Being sealed doesn't mean we no longer have to live out our faith in love.

Regards

Jesus said all that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never cast out. Sounds like a done deal to me....well at least for me it does i can't speak for any of you guys....sure hope it is a done deal for you all to.

We cast ourselves out by returning to the vomit of our former lives. Jesus doesn't push us into that....

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Being sealed only denotes "ownership". It does not guarantee inheritance. Saul of the OT was also "sealed" with God's Spirit. Being sealed doesn't mean we no longer have to live out our faith in love.

It does guarantee our inheritance, our faith in love will never cease. It's impossible to no longer live without it, as you put it. It's impossible because Jesus will never stop loving us. Our faith is continually active in him, because Jesus is alive in heaven and will never die. 1 Peter 1:4-5 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Notice is says fadeth not away, reserved and kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

The Holy Spirit is only given to those who obey God. Acts 5:32.

There seems to be a cause/effect in our life. If we are following Christ and obeying the commandments, we are assured that Christ is abiding in us. While initial justification is utterly dependent upon God, there is some participation/interaction as we continue - the parable of the sower and the seed is an example... The "soil" is part of the "formula" that decides the fruit.

Regards

 

[Guest]

We cast ourselves out by returning to the vomit of our former lives. Jesus doesn't push us into that....

Do you understand what the power of God is? It's impossible to cast ourselves out, that would mean that Jesus gives up on us whenever we make mistakes. The only person that was perfect was Jesus.

The Holy Spirit is only given to those who obey God. Acts 5:32.

If this is true, then nobody would be baptized. Why do you think unbelievers are called sinners, because they've been obeying God? Acts 5:32 is speaking about not quenching the Holy Spirit. If you obey, the Holy Spirit will flow inside of you like a river of love. Acts has nothing to do with salvation and baptism. The Holy Spirit is given to those who repent of their sins and accept Jesus into their hearts.

 

[Jamesone5]

Quote Originally Posted by Jamnesone5 View Post Lord, thank you that this question is not something that I get to decide. No, you do get to decide. Are you asking, seeking and knocking for his salvation? Accepting Jesus into your heart is your choice based upon free will, and also the best choice you will ever make. Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you

Granted I do eessentially get to decide for myself, but I think the premise of this thread was "Will all born-again Christians make it to heaven?" I simply cannot make that call for others or the "all" in this question, nor do I want to make that call.

 

[francisdesales]

We cast ourselves out by returning to the vomit of our former lives. Jesus doesn't push us into that....

Do you understand what the power of God is? It's impossible to cast ourselves out, that would mean that Jesus gives up on us whenever we make mistakes. The only person that was perfect was Jesus.

If so, then all men are going to heaven, since Christ died for ALL men and God desires all men to be saved, according to Paul's letter to Timothy. The question is not about "God's Power", who is powerful "enough" to "save" Satan. It is man's free will response that determines whether we will continue.

We don't have to be perfect. I still have not found any Scripture citation that requires men to be absolutely perfect (unless they are trying to earn heaven, as a wage - Romans 4:4), whether Jesus was perfect or not.

The only thing I find on that subject is that God is merciful and will forgive us WHEN (not if) we fail. Why be scrupulous about perfection when God is merciful? We zealously pursue God and follow His ways, but when we fail, we beg for His mercy, having faith that He will grant it.

The Holy Spirit is only given to those who obey God. Acts 5:32.

If this is true, then nobody would be baptized. Why do you think unbelievers are called sinners, because they've been obeying God? Acts 5:32 is speaking about not quenching the Holy Spirit. If you obey, the Holy Spirit will flow inside of you like a river of love. Acts has nothing to do with salvation and baptism. The Holy Spirit is given to those who repent of their sins and accept Jesus into their hearts.

Agreed, Acts 5 is not about baptism - but I am not citing it for that reason. We are talking about STAYING in Christ, aren't we? The Spirit is given to those who obey - of course He has been already given at baptism freely - born from above. The thread is about whether all CONTINUE in Christ and go to heaven.

It would seem that once we are born from above, we participate in the Spirit's action and whether or not that "river of love" that you mention dries up or not. There are way too many Scripture verses that speak of this "river of love" as not automatically self-sustaining. Too many verses that speak of exhortations to REMAIN faithful. WHY would the Bible tells Christians of such things if we cannot fall away???

Regards

 

[John Zain]

It's impossible to cast ourselves out, that would mean that Jesus gives up on us
whenever we make mistakes. The only person that was perfect was Jesus.

Francis is talking to you about another "somewhat hidden" truth,
which is too troublesome, negative, etc. for most to handle.

The Lord prefers to reveal His deeper spiritual Truths via His Spirit.

Take it easy on him ... he's just trying to give people a warning.

Many Scriptures say that man can choose to disqualify himself,
i.e. actually reject God's grace and salvation.

 

[francisdesales]

It's impossible to cast ourselves out, that would mean that Jesus gives up on us
whenever we make mistakes. The only person that was perfect was Jesus.

Francis is talking to you about another "somewhat hidden" truth,
which is too troublesome, negative, etc. for most to handle.

The Lord prefers to reveal His deeper spiritual Truths via His Spirit.

Take it easy on him ... he's just trying to give people a warning.

Many Scriptures say that man can choose to disqualify himself,
i.e. actually reject God's grace and salvation.

Yes, I am not stating that any particular person will falter, but the Scriptures clearly say it is POSSIBLE. Too many to ignore...

People confuse the "what ought to be" with the reality of "what is".

"We" "ought to be holy" because of the Spirit of God. But are "we"? Even while stealing and causing hate and discontent, as Paul tells the Corinthians? God will destroy such people who tear down the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Destroy. Not "lessen your 'reward'".

Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. 1 Cor 3:16-17

Paul is talking about Christians stirring the pot and causing trouble...

Regards

 

[Elijah674]

First off. There are seen 5 wise & 5 foolish in the Matt. 25 parable. These all had oil in there lamps. So we find some who had been Born Again who the Lord knew the end from the START. (as not making the grade)

And surely there are a whole bunch (as in whole united folds) who never are serious about much as is seen in there ending of Rev. 18:4. And these ones will unite behind satan to in/force 666. (see Matt. 6:24)
But as Christ stated, these ones were as lost in the End.

OK: All of these are not these in the parables vision! (got that!) To have the Holy Spirit given In the first place they must 'SURRENDER' THEIR WILL!

(No more I can do as did Cain)
And in John 5:15-18 we see a full picture of Salvation presented. It is not the one time sin that is the problem, but it is the thing being done over & over again KNOWING that it is sin. (try a hundred years of known sin!) Also check Psalms 19:13 for what leads one astray.

--Elijah

 

[John Zain]

Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. 1 Cor 3:16-17
Paul is talking about Christians stirring the pot and causing trouble...

Yes, there are many on Christian forums who vehemently fight against the truth.
Either they are totally brainwashed with erroneous doctrine learned at church,
or they are tares placed there by Satan.

 

[Grappler]

Being sealed only denotes "ownership". It does not guarantee inheritance. Saul of the OT was also "sealed" with God's Spirit. Being sealed doesn't mean we no longer have to live out our faith in love.

Regards

Jesus said all that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never cast out. Sounds like a done deal to me....well at least for me it does i can't speak for any of you guys....sure hope it is a done deal for you all to.

We cast ourselves out by returning to the vomit of our former lives. Jesus doesn't push us into that....

Regards

I haven't vomited in a long time....and i didn't enjoy it very much. You may cast yourself out dude but Jesus said he will never cast me out. Paul said that God chose me before the foundation of the world....like i said...done deal.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Geez, lighten up on the man, there's ways to discuss without being contentious. Anyway, I disagree with that the Christians will suffer the wrath of God or satan. To suffer tribulations is one thing, but to suffer the wrath that is being spoken of would contradict scripture.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ./ (KJV)

Revelation 3:10

10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth./ (KJV)

Hi, Edward!

Good verses! However, I'm not sure that they are KJV(I could be wrong, since there have been updated versions of KJV over the years).

 

[iLOVE]

Galatians 1:6-10

Amplified Bible (AMP)

6 I am surprised and astonished that you are so quickly [a]turning renegade and deserting Him Who invited and called you [b]by the grace (unmerited favor) of Christ (the Messiah) [and that you are transferring your allegiance] to a different [even an opposition] gospel.
7 Not that there is [or could be] any other [genuine Gospel], but there are [obviously] some who are troubling and disturbing and bewildering you [[c]with a different kind of teaching which they offer as a gospel] and want to pervert and distort the Gospel of Christ (the Messiah) [into something which it absolutely is not].
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!
9 As we said before, so I now say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us], let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!
10 Now am I trying to win the favor of men, or of God? Do I seek to please men? If I were still seeking popularity with men, I should not be a bond servant of Christ (the Messiah).