Woman on the Beast

[for_his_glory]

Oh, okay. I was trying to have an actual conversation with YOU. Not with the words of your book, nor the words of the book. No wonder it is so confusing trying to figure out what your response has to do with the question I asked. Please stop quoting your own book without indicating you are doing so. I've been told my words can be rude and demeaning, but I find it just as rude and belittling that you are not actually replying to my questions as I try to probe your understanding, but rather you give me the words of your books, trying to instruct me in something I did not ask to be instructed on.

I do not believe you actually read my posts, and get to the heart of the question. You see a word or a phrase, then ask why, skip the rest, then presume to teach. That is not listening. That is not having a discussion.

Sorry, but what I quote from my book are my own writings concerning our conversations as my words are my replies just like yours's are. If you have a problem with that then I don't know what to tell you. I have read all your posts and answered your questions, but apparently they are not the answers you are looking for.

I never ask anyone to agree with me, but to take the scriptures and history I give and go study for themselves. I know you have a problem with me so why do you even bother trying to have conversations with me if you do not like my replies to you. You have taught me nothing so far and would rather come against me in your "I'm right you are wrong" attitude. If you have such a problem with me take it to TWTS and we can have the staff, that will not include me for the most as I am to invested in this thread.

 

[ezrider]

Sorry, but what I quote from my book are my own writings concerning our conversations as my words are my replies just like yours's are. If you have a problem with that then I don't know what to tell you. I have read all your posts and answered your questions, but apparently they are not the answers you are looking for.

Is it too much for you to actually say you are quoting from your own book. Thats all I'm asking.

I never ask anyone to agree with me, but to take the scriptures and history I give and go study for themselves. I know you have a problem with me so why do you even bother trying to have conversations with me if you do not like my replies to you. You have taught me nothing so far and would rather come against me in your "I'm right you are wrong" attitude. If you have such a problem with me take it to TWTS and we can have the staff, that will not include me for the most as I am to invested in this thread.

I'm not here to teach you anything, nor are my responses solely for your benefit. It is a public forum open for any to read. I will leave it to them to decide if the spirit of Jezebel teaches concerning the deep things of Satan, and the
Luciferian kingdoms of this world.

As it is for the the Woman who sit upon the waters, I'd consider being careful when it comes to your condemnation of her, She was the Lords Wife after all.


Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

 

[Quantrill]

There is a difference between astrology/Zodiac, which is an abomination to the Lord, and astronomy, which deals with celestial objects, space, and the physical universe that God created and set forth in the heavens.

In Job 38:31-32 Mazzaroth deals with the celestial of God's glory in creation. God asks Job various questions in chapter 38 and in vs. 31-32 God is asking Job if he can change the pattern of the constellations that God has already set in place.

Man has taken the word mazzaroth and interpreted into the Zodiac signs as in astrology that deals with mediums and psychics naming various religious gods after some planets like Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Venus and Mercury as they became their gods and goddesses throughout the four Empires with the last revived Roman Empire that still worships these gods.


Babylonian Empire gods - Shamash and Marduk

Medo-Persian gods - Angra Mainyu, Mithra, Vrthraghna

Grecian Empire - Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Ares, Aphrodite, Apollo, Artemis, Hephaestus, Hermes, Dionysus

Roman Empire gods - Sol, Ra, Jupiter, Juno, Minerva, Venus, Diana, Vulcan, Neptune, Apollo, Ceres, Mercury, Vesta, Janus, Saturn, Hercules, Fortuna, Victoria, Quirinus, Flora, Bellona, Terra, Liber, Silvanus

I believe I made the distinction between the Zodiac and astrology. Not you.

No. Mazzaroth is the Zodiac.

To say it is just God's glory in creation is nothing but smoke. That is like saying the Bible is all about God's love. True, but inadequate to the discussion.

Who is 'Pleiades' or the 'bands of Orion' in (Job 38:31)? Who is 'Archturus with his sons' in (Job 38:32)?

What does it mean in (Job 26:13)? "By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent."?

Quantrill

 

[PaulChristensen]

Please do not speak for another member as they are capable to speak for themselves. This only leads to confusion.

Quantrill asked me in his post # 3: Why not give the Scripture reference for the woman on the beast?

I had no idea what he was asking for as I gave many scriptures in the OP. After asking me this question I also gave him more reference by reading Rev 17-18.

I read Dave Hunt's book of the same title, and he gives a compelling view of the topic, from the writings of those in the RCC past and present. His revealing of the thoughts and opinions of those in the RCC give a chilling view of the definite link between Papal rule, the beast and the Antichrist. What comforts me is that I believe in the Pretrib Rapture, and so if I live that long, I won't be around to see it all happen.

 

[for_his_glory]

I read Dave Hunt's book of the same title, and he gives a compelling view of the topic, from the writings of those in the RCC past and present. His revealing of the thoughts and opinions of those in the RCC give a chilling view of the definite link between Papal rule, the beast and the Antichrist. What comforts me is that I believe in the Pretrib Rapture, and so if I live that long, I won't be around to see it all happen.

Won't get into the pretrib thing as that is a thread of it's own, but whether there is or isn't Jesus said their is much tribulation that must come before He returns for His Bride as we even now can see history repeating itself.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe I made the distinction between the Zodiac and astrology. Not you.

No. Mazzaroth is the Zodiac.

Mazzaroth is a Hebrew word found in the book of Job and literally means a Garland of Crowns, but its context is that of Astronomical Constellations. It is often interpreted as a term for the Zodiac or the Constellations thereof. It was man, not God that named the different Zodiacs and changed the glory of God in the heavens making other gods of that which He created. It is God's glory in creation, Psalms 19:1-4, but man has made gods of Gods creation.

To say it is just God's glory in creation is nothing but smoke. That is like saying the Bible is all about God's love. True, but inadequate to the discussion.

Psalms 19:1-4, no smoke there.

Who is 'Pleiades' or the 'bands of Orion' in (Job 38:31)? Who is 'Archturus with his sons' in (Job 38:32)?

Look it up in Greek mythology as it has to do with Atlas and Zeus who are Greek gods.

What does it mean in (Job 26:13)? "By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent."?

As I understand the crooked serpent is that of what is named by man, not God. The practice of forming pictures of the heavens with a somewhat fanciful resemblance to animals was one of the early devices in astronomy that was known in the day of Job as he would know this constellation as being a crooked serpent also found in Isaiah27:1.

I would think these signs of animals started with Babylon as many more were added throughout the four major Empires as they made many gods out of the consteallations shaming that of the glory of Gods beautiful creation. This was and still is used in pagan religions today as being pagan gods.

 

[Quantrill]

Mazzaroth is a Hebrew word found in the book of Job and literally means a Garland of Crowns, but its context is that of Astronomical Constellations. It is often interpreted as a term for the Zodiac or the Constellations thereof. It was man, not God that named the different Zodiacs and changed the glory of God in the heavens making other gods of that which He created. It is God's glory in creation, Psalms 19:1-4, but man has made gods of Gods creation.

Psalms 19:1-4, no smoke there.

Look it up in Greek mythology as it has to do with Atlas and Zeus who are Greek gods.

As I understand the crooked serpent is that of what is named by man, not God. The practice of forming pictures of the heavens with a somewhat fanciful resemblance to animals was one of the early devices in astronomy that was known in the day of Job as he would know this constellation as being a crooked serpent also found in Isaiah27:1.

I would think these signs of animals started with Babylon as many more were added throughout the four major Empires as they made many gods out of the consteallations shaming that of the glory of Gods beautiful creation. This was and still is used in pagan religions today as being pagan gods.

Show me where man named the various signs of the Zodiac.

See Strongs Concordance for the definition of Mazzaroth. #(4216) "The Zodiac"

"Canst thou bring forth (into the sky) the signs of the Zodiac at their respective seasons--the twelve lodgings...in which the sun successively stays or appears in the sky." (A Commentary, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Eerdmans Printing Co., 1990, Vol. II, p.94)

(Ps. 19:1-6) proves what you say is smoke. (Ps. 19:1-6) is describing the Zodiac. "Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun" (4) The line is that ecliptic that shows the apparent yearly path of the sun. The Zodiac.

I'm looking at the Bible where God is telling Job that it is God, not Greek mythology, that created the signs of the Zodiac and will accomplish them in their season.

"Can you tie cord to Pleides Or undo the reins of Orian? Can you lead out Mazzaroth in its season, Conduct the Bear with her sons?" (The TANAKH, The Jewish Publication Society, 1985, Job 38:32)

Footnote from the above cited TANAKH concerning Mazzaroth. "Evidently a constellation" (p. 1396)

When God says "Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season?" It is clear that it is God that is accomplishing bringing forth Mazzaroth at a certain time appointed.

As you understand it? Please. God says in (Job 26:13), "By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent." It is God Who formed the crooked serpent for His purpose. And it's name speaks to the purpose. (Is. 27:1) is speaking to the fulfilling of that purpose.

As you would think? Please. Do you think God is using the Babylonian cult to show His purpose in the heavens? How utterly ridiculous. It is God Who formed these for His purpose as He told Job in (38:32).

It doesn't matter what paganism has done to the Zodiac. What I am addressing is what God was doing when He created it.

Quantrill

 

[PaulChristensen]

Won't get into the pretrib thing as that is a thread of it's own, but whether there is or isn't Jesus said their is much tribulation that must come before He returns for His Bride as we even now can see history repeating itself.

I guess the Christians in Afganistan will say that their period of tribulation is happening right now!

 

[for_his_glory]

I guess the Christians in Afganistan will say that their period of tribulation is happening right now!

That is defiantly a time of tribulation like any war, but so much more to come on all Christians that will face persecutions, even to death before the Lord returns on the last day.

 

[for_his_glory]

Show me where man named the various signs of the Zodiac.

See Strongs Concordance for the definition of Mazzaroth. #(4216) "The Zodiac"

"Canst thou bring forth (into the sky) the signs of the Zodiac at their respective seasons--the twelve lodgings...in which the sun successively stays or appears in the sky." (A Commentary, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Eerdmans Printing Co., 1990, Vol. II, p.94)

(Ps. 19:1-6) proves what you say is smoke. (Ps. 19:1-6) is describing the Zodiac. "Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun" (4) The line is that ecliptic that shows the apparent yearly path of the sun. The Zodiac.

I'm looking at the Bible where God is telling Job that it is God, not Greek mythology, that created the signs of the Zodiac and will accomplish them in their season.

"Can you tie cord to Pleides Or undo the reins of Orian? Can you lead out Mazzaroth in its season, Conduct the Bear with her sons?" (The TANAKH, The Jewish Publication Society, 1985, Job 38:32)

Footnote from the above cited TANAKH concerning Mazzaroth. "Evidently a constellation" (p. 1396)

When God says "Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season?" It is clear that it is God that is accomplishing bringing forth Mazzaroth at a certain time appointed.

As you understand it? Please. God says in (Job 26:13), "By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent." It is God Who formed the crooked serpent for His purpose. And it's name speaks to the purpose. (Is. 27:1) is speaking to the fulfilling of that purpose.

As you would think? Please. Do you think God is using the Babylonian cult to show His purpose in the heavens? How utterly ridiculous. It is God Who formed these for His purpose as He told Job in (38:32).

It doesn't matter what paganism has done to the Zodiac. What I am addressing is what God was doing when He created it.

Quantrill

I will repeat this once again.

It is often interpreted as a term for the Zodiac or the Constellations thereof. It was man, not God that named the different Zodiacs and changed the glory of God in the heavens making other gods of that which He created. It is God's glory in creation, Psalms 19:1-4, but man has made gods of Gods creation.

You listed this:
Babylon--Mylitta or Semiramis is the mother. Tammuz is her son.
Egypt--Isis is the mother. Horus is her son.
India--Devaki is the mother. Crishna is her son.
India--Indrani is the mother holding a child.
Asia--Cybele is the mother. Deoius is her son.
Pagan Rome--Fortuna is the mother. Jupiter is her son.

I added to your list:
Babylonian Empire gods - Shamash and Marduk

Medo-Persian gods - Angra Mainyu, Mithra, Vrthraghna

Grecian Empire - Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Ares, Aphrodite, Apollo, Artemis, Hephaestus, Hermes, Dionysus

Roman Empire gods - Sol, Ra, Jupiter, Juno, Minerva, Venus, Diana, Vulcan, Neptune, Apollo, Ceres, Mercury, Vesta, Janus, Saturn, Hercules, Fortuna, Victoria, Quirinus, Flora, Bellona, Terra, Liber, Silvanus

Was it God that game names to the grouping of the stars, called it the Zodiac and made gods and goddesses, or was it man that did that beginning in Babylon?

Quantrill said

 

[PaulChristensen]

That is defiantly a time of tribulation like any war, but so much more to come on all Christians that will face persecutions, even to death before the Lord returns on the last day.

The latest is that the Taliban are going to door to door seeking out Christians to kill them.

 

[for_his_glory]

The latest is that the Taliban are going to door to door seeking out Christians to kill them.

Actually this is already happening in some countries as many are being taken and dying a martyr's death for the sake of their witness of Christ.

Jesus already gave us warning of this, especially when the son of perdition takes his set in Jerusalem before the return of Christ.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Quantrill]

I will repeat this once again.

It is often interpreted as a term for the Zodiac or the Constellations thereof. It was man, not God that named the different Zodiacs and changed the glory of God in the heavens making other gods of that which He created. It is God's glory in creation, Psalms 19:1-4, but man has made gods of Gods creation.

You listed this:
Babylon--Mylitta or Semiramis is the mother. Tammuz is her son.
Egypt--Isis is the mother. Horus is her son.
India--Devaki is the mother. Crishna is her son.
India--Indrani is the mother holding a child.
Asia--Cybele is the mother. Deoius is her son.
Pagan Rome--Fortuna is the mother. Jupiter is her son.

I added to your list:
Babylonian Empire gods - Shamash and Marduk

Medo-Persian gods - Angra Mainyu, Mithra, Vrthraghna

Grecian Empire - Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Ares, Aphrodite, Apollo, Artemis, Hephaestus, Hermes, Dionysus

Roman Empire gods - Sol, Ra, Jupiter, Juno, Minerva, Venus, Diana, Vulcan, Neptune, Apollo, Ceres, Mercury, Vesta, Janus, Saturn, Hercules, Fortuna, Victoria, Quirinus, Flora, Bellona, Terra, Liber, Silvanus

Was it God that game names to the grouping of the stars, called it the Zodiac and made gods and goddesses, or was it man that did that beginning in Babylon?

It was God that identified them and gave the original names to the Zodiac. I have showed you that in Scripture. You, however are focusing on satan's and man's perversion of that revelation.

Here is more Scripture. (Genesis 1:14) "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years."

Compare that to (Job 38:32). "Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season."

And (Ps. 19:1-6) is describing this very Zodiac. "night unto night sheweth knowledge" (2)

The ecliptic charting the suns path annually is given in (Ps. 19:4) Then in (19:5) it says, "Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race."

Does that remind you of Anyone?

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

It was God that identified them and gave the original names to the Zodiac. I have showed you that in Scripture. You, however are focusing on satan's and man's perversion of that revelation.

Of course I am focusing on mans perversion taking that of the glory of God in the heavens and making gods and goddesses out of the beauty of God's creation in the constellations.

Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their name

By these verses it does seem like God gave names to the constellations.

It is also said in theory that Adam and Seth gave names to the constellations like Adam did with the animals. It is also said that the gospel message is in the stars like Virgo represents the virgin who would give birth to the promised Messiah, Capricornus represents the goat of atonement, slain for the redeemed, Orion represents Christ, the heavenly light of the world, and Leo is the lion of the tribe of Judah.

I really do not know much about this as I never studied the constellation or their meanings other then the dark side of paganism within the four Empires.

I will admit I have no knowledge within Job 38 other than God asking many questions of Job

 

[Quantrill]

Of course I am focusing on mans perversion taking that of the glory of God in the heavens and making gods and goddesses out of the beauty of God's creation in the constellations.

Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their name

By these verses it does seem like God gave names to the constellations.

It is also said in theory that Adam and Seth gave names to the constellations like Adam did with the animals. It is also said that the gospel message is in the stars like Virgo represents the virgin who would give birth to the promised Messiah, Capricornus represents the goat of atonement, slain for the redeemed, Orion represents Christ, the heavenly light of the world, and Leo is the lion of the tribe of Judah.

I really do not know much about this as I never studied the constellation or their meanings other then the dark side of paganism within the four Empires.

I will admit I have no knowledge within Job 38 other than God asking many questions of Job

It's a fascinating study and I encourage you and anyone to pursue it. Again, "The Gospel In The Stars" by Joseph Seiss, is a good place to start.

Quantrill