Woman on the Beast

[for_his_glory]

Concerning (Rev. 17-18), I believe ch. 17 deals with the woman, the Babel religious system. And, ch. 18, deals with the beast on which the woman rides, the Babel political system.

I would say first, because it is that which is usually believed in Christianity, that the 7 mountains that the woman sits on are not literal mountains, and do not represent the city of Rome.

She, the great whore, sits on many waters, or nations. (Rev. 17:7) The waters are interpreted for us in (Rev. 17:15) as peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

The information I give now comes from (Joseph A Seiss, The Apocalypse, p. 391-394) as quoted in (The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, John Walvoord, Moody Press, 1978, p. 251-254)

(Rev. 17:9) "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings...." This verse is not describing the woman. It is describing the beast, the political Babylon.

A mountain is often used in Scripture to represent a kingdom. David said, (Ps. 30:7) "LORD, by thy favor thou hast made my mountain to stand strong...." And speaking of Babylon we are told in (Jer. 51:25) "Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain...and will make thee a burnt mountain." And of course, (Dan. 2:35) "...the stone that smote the image became a great mountain that filled the whole earth."

As there are 7 imperial powers, so there are 7 Kings representing those powers. Rome will certainly be one of those powers and will represent the 6th. (Rev. 17:10) "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come...." The 'one is' is the Roman empire in Johns day. The one future is that of the Tribulation period.

The 5 that are fallen would be Greece, Persia, Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt. And you can find the Mystery Babylon religion in all of them. The Great whore has been around that long as she has sat on all of them. In my and others opinion.

Quantrill

I agree with all you post here and will take it further.

Rev 17:1-6
John is once more caught up in the Spirit as this angel shows him the future judgment of Mystery Babylon who is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Mystery Babylon is described first as a great whore that sits on many waters. She is a mystery to John when the vision was given to him, but now made very clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the Roman Catholic Church. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The woman was drunk with power the beast (Satan) gave her as she made martyrs of the saints and prophets of God as their blood was shed for their faith in Christ Jesus as they refused to denounce Christ in order to take the mark of this beast and bow down to this one world political, economic, educational and religious system.

Rev 17:7-8
The mystery of the woman is now revealed to John as being the Babylonian Empire (was, and is not). The same Empire that in time became the Roman Empire that has captured John and sent him to the isle of Patmos as a prisoner for preaching the word of God to the seven Churches in Asia. The same Empire that have always persecuted, even to death, the saints, the Prophets, the Apostles and even Christ.

The beast, being Satan, has always controlled the seven heads and ten nations as he works through those to kill, steal and destroy that which is God’s. We read back in Chapter 13 about the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth and who the son of perdition is as being Satan who works through the Luciferians religious system with their Jesuit Militant Priesthood and their false prophet being the Pontifex Maximus.

The beast that was and is not and yet is had its beginning with Nimrod and continuing with all the imperial kings, pharaohs and Roman Caesars that claimed to be priest/god/kings and held the official office and title of Pontifex Maximus who commands worship from their subjects.

The Pope, being the end of days son of perdition revealed, claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin.

Rev 17:9-11
The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.

The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.

One is: is that of the Roman Papal government up till 1798 when it received it deadly wound when General Berthier and Napoleon had abolished the papal government back in 1798 and established a secular one.

And the other not yet come and when he cometh, he must continue a short space is the reestablished Roman Catholic Church given back in 1929 when the Lateran Treaty had been signed between the Roman Catholic Church and Mussolini’s fascist Italian government. The treaty was signed by Benito Mussolini on behalf of King Victor Emmanuel III and by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Gasparri for Pope Pius XI. The Lateran Treaty and the Concordat unilaterally established the independent State of the Vatican City on February 11, 1929 and granted Roman Catholicism special status in Italy.

The beast that was: was Pope Pius VI (25 December 1717 – 29 August 1799) born Count Giovanni Angelo Braschi reigned as Pope from 15 February 1775 to his death in 1799. There were no other Popes until 1929 when Pope Pius XI ruled over Vatican City as he exercised principal legislative, executive and judicial power as all the other Popes have since that time.

There have been eight Popes starting with Pope Pius XI up to the seventh and eight Pope being Pope Francis. The reason Pope Francis is the seventh and eight is that Pope Benedict XVI being the seventh king (Pope) resigned. A new Pope is not selected until the former one dies.

The beast out of the earth that Satan gives power to, Rev 13, is this seventh and eight king (Pope) that will go into perdition causing a falling away before the return of Christ, 2Thessalonians 2:2, 3, as he sits on the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north taking his seat on the same mount that use to be the Temple of God as he deceives the nations claiming to be like God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

​

 

[for_his_glory]

What is the Image of the Beast, the beast that this woman rides upon?

Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


What is this image, do you know?

Rev 13:11-18

Daniel 7:24, 25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. The strength in Papal Rome is that of deceit and evil heresies that Satan works through to destroy everything that God has already established in His timing and Laws. Jesus upheld the laws demanding that the spirit as well as the legal aspects of the laws be observed. Jesus did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law, Matthew 5:17-20. The chief tendency of the priesthood was to keep the gospels away from people and keep them under Roman Catholicism doctrine as being the full authority as the rule of life and belief.

The Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church has desecrated the ten commandments of God by changing the Sabbath to the first day of the week in support of Luciferians sun worship. The Pope claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin, Matthew 23:9. Rome’s catechism leaves out Gods second commandment as they worship many idols making various gods unto themselves as they bow down and worship them.

The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth.

Another beast comes up out of the earth that looks like a lamb (false Christ) with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire Priesthood that received its deadly wound back in 1798 that caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (horns). The wound was healed in 1929 which has allowed the Jesuit Priesthood whom the Pope holds all power and authority over Papal Rome to make formal diplomatic relationships with many nations around the world as they prepare their tyranny against Gods anointed once again.

 

[ezrider]

Rev 13:11-18

Daniel 7:24, 25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. The strength in Papal Rome is that of deceit and evil heresies that Satan works through to destroy everything that God has already established in His timing and Laws. Jesus upheld the laws demanding that the spirit as well as the legal aspects of the laws be observed. Jesus did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law, Matthew 5:17-20. The chief tendency of the priesthood was to keep the gospels away from people and keep them under Roman Catholicism doctrine as being the full authority as the rule of life and belief.

The Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church has desecrated the ten commandments of God by changing the Sabbath to the first day of the week in support of Luciferians sun worship. The Pope claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin, Matthew 23:9. Rome’s catechism leaves out Gods second commandment as they worship many idols making various gods unto themselves as they bow down and worship them.

The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth.

Another beast comes up out of the earth that looks like a lamb (false Christ) with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire Priesthood that received its deadly wound back in 1798 that caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (horns). The wound was healed in 1929 which has allowed the Jesuit Priesthood whom the Pope holds all power and authority over Papal Rome to make formal diplomatic relationships with many nations around the world as they prepare their tyranny against Gods anointed once again.

Reading through all of this, I can't see where you actually identified the "image" of the beast. What is the image he causes them to worship as stated in Rev 13:15?

 

[Quantrill]

This is not about denomination/nondominations as God does not recognize them or any organized religion, but only knows His own by what is in their heart.

There will be many Roman and Protestant church's here on the earth when Christ returns that even they will be destroyed for following after the harlot that is leading them astray.

Per 2Thessalonians 2:7 you have to read vs. 1-12, cross referencing it with Rev 13, 17, 18 and 19 to understand that the mystery to some people will remain a mystery until it's to late as they have not studied about who this mystery Babylon is that started with the Babylonian Empire clear through the last Empire being the Roman Empire that still exist today as all seven have always persecuted God's people making many of them die a martyr's death that included many Prophets and Apostles.

All seven Empires are a false religious group that has always exalted themselves above God.

It's about the woman on the beast. I am giving my understanding. What are you so upset about?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I agree with all you post here and will take it further.

Rev 17:1-6
John is once more caught up in the Spirit as this angel shows him the future judgment of Mystery Babylon who is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Mystery Babylon is described first as a great whore that sits on many waters. She is a mystery to John when the vision was given to him, but now made very clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the Roman Catholic Church. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The woman was drunk with power the beast (Satan) gave her as she made martyrs of the saints and prophets of God as their blood was shed for their faith in Christ Jesus as they refused to denounce Christ in order to take the mark of this beast and bow down to this one world political, economic, educational and religious system.

Rev 17:7-8
The mystery of the woman is now revealed to John as being the Babylonian Empire (was, and is not). The same Empire that in time became the Roman Empire that has captured John and sent him to the isle of Patmos as a prisoner for preaching the word of God to the seven Churches in Asia. The same Empire that have always persecuted, even to death, the saints, the Prophets, the Apostles and even Christ.

The beast, being Satan, has always controlled the seven heads and ten nations as he works through those to kill, steal and destroy that which is God’s. We read back in Chapter 13 about the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth and who the son of perdition is as being Satan who works through the Luciferians religious system with their Jesuit Militant Priesthood and their false prophet being the Pontifex Maximus.

The beast that was and is not and yet is had its beginning with Nimrod and continuing with all the imperial kings, pharaohs and Roman Caesars that claimed to be priest/god/kings and held the official office and title of Pontifex Maximus who commands worship from their subjects.

The Pope, being the end of days son of perdition revealed, claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin.

Rev 17:9-11
The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.

The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.

One is: is that of the Roman Papal government up till 1798 when it received it deadly wound when General Berthier and Napoleon had abolished the papal government back in 1798 and established a secular one.

And the other not yet come and when he cometh, he must continue a short space is the reestablished Roman Catholic Church given back in 1929 when the Lateran Treaty had been signed between the Roman Catholic Church and Mussolini’s fascist Italian government. The treaty was signed by Benito Mussolini on behalf of King Victor Emmanuel III and by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Gasparri for Pope Pius XI. The Lateran Treaty and the Concordat unilaterally established the independent State of the Vatican City on February 11, 1929 and granted Roman Catholicism special status in Italy.

The beast that was: was Pope Pius VI (25 December 1717 – 29 August 1799) born Count Giovanni Angelo Braschi reigned as Pope from 15 February 1775 to his death in 1799. There were no other Popes until 1929 when Pope Pius XI ruled over Vatican City as he exercised principal legislative, executive and judicial power as all the other Popes have since that time.

There have been eight Popes starting with Pope Pius XI up to the seventh and eight Pope being Pope Francis. The reason Pope Francis is the seventh and eight is that Pope Benedict XVI being the seventh king (Pope) resigned. A new Pope is not selected until the former one dies.

The beast out of the earth that Satan gives power to, Rev 13, is this seventh and eight king (Pope) that will go into perdition causing a falling away before the return of Christ, 2Thessalonians 2:2, 3, as he sits on the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north taking his seat on the same mount that use to be the Temple of God as he deceives the nations claiming to be like God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

​

No. We don't agree and don't try and presume we do. I don't mind that we don't agree. I do mind that you present it as we do agree when we don't.

Why do you feel the need to do that?

When you want to say you want to take it further, then you change what I believe and have said.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Reading through all of this, I can't see where you actually identified the "image" of the beast. What is the image he causes them to worship as stated in Rev 13:15?

Rev 13

The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is the Jesuit Luciferians with their headquarters in the Church of Gesu in Rome that is in close proximity to the Vatican. The Pontifex Maximus (Pope) god king religious system is who Satan gives his seat and authority to. Rome had total control from 538 AD to 1798 which equals 1260 years that equal time, times and a half time as once again history will repeat itself in the annihilation of Gods anointed during the end of days.


​

 

[for_his_glory]

It's about the woman on the beast. I am giving my understanding. What are you so upset about?

Quantrill

I'm not upset about anything. If you go back you will see that I agree with you in your post # 19 as it does go way back to Babel and Nimrod clear up to present day Roman Empire.

 

[for_his_glory]

No. We don't agree and don't try and presume we do. I don't mind that we don't agree. I do mind that you present it as we do agree when we don't.

Why do you feel the need to do that?

When you want to say you want to take it further, then you change what I believe and have said.

Quantrill

If you do not agree with me so be it as it's no big deal as I don't expect others to always agree with me. Sometimes when people give me their understanding, which I agreed with yours in post #19, I like to take that and go further in order to show the full context. If you have a problem with that then maybe you are not opened to a full discussion on the topic. I am never one sided and always opened to learn.

 

[ezrider]

Rev 13

The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is the Jesuit Luciferians with their headquarters in the Church of Gesu in Rome that is in close proximity to the Vatican. The Pontifex Maximus (Pope) god king religious system is who Satan gives his seat and authority to. Rome had total control from 538 AD to 1798 which equals 1260 years that equal time, times and a half time as once again history will repeat itself in the annihilation of Gods anointed during the end of days.


​

Again, you are not answering the specific question I asked. You keep trying to tell me about the beast. I am not asking about the beast. I am asking about the IMAGE the beast and the false prophet set up. The IMAGE that people are drawn to worship. Do you know what that IMAGE is? If you don't, it okay to say so.

 

[for_his_glory]

Again, you are not answering the specific question I asked. You keep trying to tell me about the beast. I am not asking about the beast. I am asking about the IMAGE the beast and the false prophet set up. The IMAGE that people are drawn to worship. Do you know what that IMAGE is? If you don't, it okay to say so.

Everything I wrote there is about the beast and the image of the beast. I don't know how to make it any clearer who the beast is and it's image. The beast is Satan who works through the Luciferian Jesuit one world political, economic, educational and religious system who gives it's power to the image of the beast being the Pontifex Maximus who has political relations with every nation in the world.

If that is not what you are looking for then I don't know what you are looking for. Why not give us your understanding of the beast and the image of the beast and please use scripture.

 

[ezrider]

Everything I wrote there is about the beast and the image of the beast. I don't know how to make it any clearer who the beast is and it's image. The beast is Satan who works through the Luciferian Jesuit one world political, economic, educational and religious system who gives it's power to the image of the beast being the Pontifex Maximus who has political relations with every nation in the world.

If that is not what you are looking for then I don't know what you are looking for. Why not give us your understanding of the beast and the image of the beast and please use scripture.

The IMAGE the beast and the false prophet cause you to worship is the IMAGE of a MAN hanging upon a Cross.

 

[Quantrill]

I'm not upset about anything. If you go back you will see that I agree with you in your post # 19 as it does go way back to Babel and Nimrod clear up to present day Roman Empire.

At the very beginning of your opening post and my post #(19), we clearly disagreed on Rome being the city on 7 hills. Why you want to say we agree is beyond me.

And I'm certainly not in agreement with your 'going further' view of the Papal government. The 6th head, or kingdom, was Rome the political power. Not the religious power of the papacy. You are confusing the Woman and the Beast.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

(Rev. 17:8-13) is very difficult to interpret. I know I said in post #(19) that (Rev. 17) deals with the woman, the religious aspect of Babylon. I drew that line too quickly. It also deals with the political aspect, the beast. And (Rev. 17:8-13) is describing the beast upon which the woman sits.

But it is clear, to me anyway, that distinction must be kept between the woman and the beast.

So, the description given of the beast in (17:8-13) applies only to the beast, in my opinion. Only to that political kingdom. Not in anyway is it to apply to the religious aspect.

In (Rev. 17:8) the beast in the first part of the verse is described as, "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not". But in the latter part of the verse the beast is described as, "...behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

So we know the beast John saw was not around in Johns day as it is said that it 'is not'. But we know the Roman empire is the 6th head of the beast, and was around in John's day. (Rev. 17:10) "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come."

To further add confusion, enter (Rev. 17:11) "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." So the eighth beast is of the seven but is 'another' beast.

Here I am just thinking outloud. Does it not appear that the beast described in (Rev. 17:8) as was and is not is not the same beast described as was, and is not, and yet is even though both are in the same verse?

And, the woman, the religious aspect of Babel, rides the 7 headed beast. But perhaps she doesn't ride the 8th. The 8th comes into power after her destruction.

If this is so, then there are two beasts yet future. That of the revision of the Roman empire upon which the woman will still ride. And then there is the beast after the woman is destroyed.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Concerning (Rev. 17-18), I believe ch. 17 deals with the woman, the Babel religious system. And, ch. 18, deals with the beast on which the woman rides, the Babel political system.

I agree

I would say first, because it is that which is usually believed in Christianity, that the 7 mountains that the woman sits on are not literal mountains, and do not represent the city of Rome.

I agree they are not literal mountains, but yet Rome is the last ruling Empire that was, was not and is once again.

She, the great whore, sits on many waters, or nations. (Rev. 17:7) The waters are interpreted for us in (Rev. 17:15) as peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

I agree

(Rev. 17:9) "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings...." This verse is not describing the woman. It is describing the beast, the political Babylon.

This verse is describing the woman who has always controlled the seven nations that still exist today. The woman is the Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational and false religious system given its power by Satan who has always controlled the ten nations as the last one that has revived from it's deadly wound will go into perdition.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.​

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

A mountain is often used in Scripture to represent a kingdom. David said, (Ps. 30:7) "LORD, by thy favor thou hast made my mountain to stand strong...." And speaking of Babylon we are told in (Jer. 51:25) "Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain...and will make thee a burnt mountain." And of course, (Dan. 2:35) "...the stone that smote the image became a great mountain that filled the whole earth."

I agree

As there are 7 imperial powers, so there are 7 Kings representing those powers. Rome will certainly be one of those powers and will represent the 6th. (Rev. 17:10) "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come...." The 'one is' is the Roman empire in Johns day. The one future is that of the Tribulation period.

I disagree as the Roman Empire is the 6th and 7th as her deadly wound was healed and even now works her iniquity leading up to the end of days when the son of perdition will cause all to bow down and take it's mark of this beast, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4; Rev 13. Described in Rev 17-18.

The 5 that are fallen would be Greece, Persia, Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt. And you can find the Mystery Babylon religion in all of them. The Great whore has been around that long as she has sat on all of them. In my and others opinion.

I agree

 

[for_his_glory]

The IMAGE the beast and the false prophet cause you to worship is the IMAGE of a MAN hanging upon a Cross.

Can you elaborate a little more on this?

It reads like you are saying the image of the beast wants us to worship Christ hanging on a cross, but He no longer hangs there as He is risen.

 

[Quantrill]

I agree

I agree they are not literal mountains, but yet Rome is the last ruling Empire that was, was not and is once again.

I agree

This verse is describing the woman who has always controlled the seven nations that still exist today. The woman is the Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational and false religious system given its power by Satan who has always controlled the ten nations as the last one that has revived from it's deadly wound will go into perdition.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.​

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

I agree

I disagree as the Roman Empire is the 6th and 7th as her deadly wound was healed and even now works her iniquity leading up to the end of days when the son of perdition will cause all to bow down and take it's mark of this beast, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4; Rev 13. Described in Rev 17-18.

I agree

The woman, religious Babel, is addressed in (Rev. 17). But I later admitted in post #(33) that the beast is also addressed in (Rev. 17). In (Rev. 18) it is the beast, political Babylon that is being addressed and destroyed. This is my understanding up to this point.

I agree that the 6th head is the Roman empire existing in John's day. And I believe that the 7th head is yet future. And I agree that the 7th head will be the revised Roman empire. But, (Rev. 17:11) is clear that there is an 8th. The beast that was and is not. See post #(33). So, though it is of the 7th, it is another. At this point, I am inclined to believe that this is the beast after it destroys the woman. It takes on a totally different nature.

I disagree with you that the Mystery of Iniquity, Mystery Babylon, is the beast. She is the woman, the religious aspect of Babylon. She is not the 6th kingdom or head. She is not political Babylon. See my post #(33). For my own clarity, I must keep these distinct. Thus, at this point, I disagree with any interpretation that combines the two. And I think you are doing that in trying to make the Papal church the beast. The papal church is certainly part of Mystery Babylon, but I do not identify it with the 6th beast.

As for the 10 horns, they are part of the beast, the political Babylon. So it is my understanding that they should not be used to define the woman. Mystery Babylon should not be used to define them. They will eventually destroy the woman. (Rev. 17:12,16)

Quantrill

 

[rstrats]

You still didn't answer my question.

,
In your post #3, you asked for_his_glory why she didn't give the scripture for the woman on the beast. She replied by referencing Revelation chapter 17-18 which wasn't responsive to your question.

You responded in your post # 5 with "About time." which suggests that you thought that she was responsive to your question.

But then in you're post #7 you said to for_his_glory that she hadn't answered your question. Seems maybe you should have started your post #5 off with that comment.

Incidentally, she still hasn't answered it.

 

[rstrats]

But then in you're post #7

You're should be changed to your.

 

[Quantrill]

,
In your post #3, you asked for_his_glory why she didn't give the scripture for the woman on the beast. She replied by referencing Revelation chapter 17-18 which wasn't responsive to your question.

You responded in your post # 5 with "About time." which suggests that you thought that she was responsive to your question.

But then in you're post #7 you said to for_his_glory that she hadn't answered your question. Seems maybe you should have started your post #5 off with that comment.

Incidentally, she still hasn't answered it.

It's not that big a deal with me at this time. I'm more concerned now with how we define the beast and the woman. It is a difficult part of Scripture. Just as difficult as defining the number of the beast. (Rev. 13:18) It is no coincidence that both are preceded with the requirement of wisdom. (Rev. 17:9)

Iv'e had questions on this passage for quite some time. And every time I fight my way through it, a little something extra is revealed in it. And I am amazed at the insight many of the saints in the past had. Many were way ahead of their time.

Concerning 'your' and 'you're', it is an easy mistake to make. When I first got on the forums I didn't care and only used 'your' for both. Then on an atheist forum I got chastised for it and figured I better do it right.

Quantrill

 

[ezrider]

Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

This is the same woman from Rev 12.

Revelation 12:1
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Galatians 4:21-27
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.



The woman is Jerusalem.

Revelation 18:7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her:
for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen,
and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.