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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Women and their role in the church
- Thread starter mharold
- Start date
handy
Member
So then...
What is the role of women in the church?
Well, God created us as man's "helper"...and we are "helpers" within the Body of Christ as well.
Mary Magdalene, the "other" Mary, Phoebe, Priscilla, the daughters of Philip, Lydia, Junias, Tryphena and Tryphosa...only some of the women who labored in the early church.
It seems as if there are two common errors in regards to women in ministry today:
1: Women have no barrier of any kind to any role whatsoever, up to and including Senior Pastor of the biggest mega-church on the Planet!!!
2: Women are to sit down and keep their mouths shut.
Neither idea is biblical.
Women are called to have male leadership in the Church...that text in 1 Timothy does indeed place a limit on how a woman serves in the body. But, we need to be careful in how we interpret it.
Paul could hardly tell Timothy that no woman, at anytime, anywhere or under any circumstances can teach or lead a man....then turn around and praise Priscilla, a woman who taught Apollos, or tell the Romans to do whatever Phoebe needed of them.
Also, when Paul admonished the Corinthian women to be silent in the church...he didn't include praying as part of the silence...and obviously, since the daughters of Philip were prophets, they could hardly keep quiet and fulfill their God given role.
Women are vital members of the congregation...and if they are expected to just sit still and be quiet, I believe the congregation will not be blessed.
What is the role of women in the church?
Well, God created us as man's "helper"...and we are "helpers" within the Body of Christ as well.
Mary Magdalene, the "other" Mary, Phoebe, Priscilla, the daughters of Philip, Lydia, Junias, Tryphena and Tryphosa...only some of the women who labored in the early church.
It seems as if there are two common errors in regards to women in ministry today:
1: Women have no barrier of any kind to any role whatsoever, up to and including Senior Pastor of the biggest mega-church on the Planet!!!
2: Women are to sit down and keep their mouths shut.
Neither idea is biblical.
Women are called to have male leadership in the Church...that text in 1 Timothy does indeed place a limit on how a woman serves in the body. But, we need to be careful in how we interpret it.
Paul could hardly tell Timothy that no woman, at anytime, anywhere or under any circumstances can teach or lead a man....then turn around and praise Priscilla, a woman who taught Apollos, or tell the Romans to do whatever Phoebe needed of them.
Also, when Paul admonished the Corinthian women to be silent in the church...he didn't include praying as part of the silence...and obviously, since the daughters of Philip were prophets, they could hardly keep quiet and fulfill their God given role.
Women are vital members of the congregation...and if they are expected to just sit still and be quiet, I believe the congregation will not be blessed.
jasoncran
Member
well heres two things for that are reality. most men dont go to church and in most churches women are in the roles that men should do.
sadly, therefore either if the church say has one or two men that are there that can lead what then. they teach sunday school and lead elsewhere?
are you aware then in the days of the early church many a jewish customs . the actualy torah wasnt taught in the synagouge. it was at home to the children was place they learned.
and as handy said women prophecied etc so how was that done in silence or the workings of the gifts that required speech, say tounges.
and ere this was that prophetess that prophecied over jesus.
if one wants to be that technical then if one was to follow jewish customs as the early churches did if they had jewish kids in it. the men were men at the age of 13 not 18. a bar and or bat mitzvah were done way back then. that idea is nearly date by talmudic oral traditions to moses. women shouldn't even sing or be in church but to hear. they cant teach kids in sunday school over the age of 13.
it makes no sense to say teach only at home. odd when the torah itsself says teach the law and lessons of god when rising up or going to bed, in the path etc..
so if a kid acts up or ask in service the mother if single shouldnt answer? not all churches have sunday schools. i know a few of them. they are often that large and start out like that.
sadly, therefore either if the church say has one or two men that are there that can lead what then. they teach sunday school and lead elsewhere?
are you aware then in the days of the early church many a jewish customs . the actualy torah wasnt taught in the synagouge. it was at home to the children was place they learned.
and as handy said women prophecied etc so how was that done in silence or the workings of the gifts that required speech, say tounges.
and ere this was that prophetess that prophecied over jesus.
if one wants to be that technical then if one was to follow jewish customs as the early churches did if they had jewish kids in it. the men were men at the age of 13 not 18. a bar and or bat mitzvah were done way back then. that idea is nearly date by talmudic oral traditions to moses. women shouldn't even sing or be in church but to hear. they cant teach kids in sunday school over the age of 13.
it makes no sense to say teach only at home. odd when the torah itsself says teach the law and lessons of god when rising up or going to bed, in the path etc..
so if a kid acts up or ask in service the mother if single shouldnt answer? not all churches have sunday schools. i know a few of them. they are often that large and start out like that.
bellevoix
Member
I was actually just wondering about this passage the other day, and a friend of mine who is going into seminary did some research on it. While it is always going to be a controversial subject, he came to find that the word "silent" is not a literal translation, and the verse actually means that women should have a respect for the leadership of the man and be modest, but it doesn't mean she can't teach at all.
To be sure, women can teach, but not in the assembly I Cor.14:34,35. Priscilla with her husband took Apollos aside and taught him, Acts 18:26. Older women are to teach the younger women, Tit.2:4. She is (as you pointed out) to respect the authority of the man, I Tim. 2:11,12. We have the example of the grandmother and mother of Timothy teaching him the faith, II Tim.1:5.
It is always the case when we stray from the instruction of the Word we are on dangerous territory and create religious division and confusion, Jn.17:20,21; I Cor.1:10.
It is always the case when we stray from the instruction of the Word we are on dangerous territory and create religious division and confusion, Jn.17:20,21; I Cor.1:10.
handy
Member
Yes, it was Adam's sin that caused the Fall...
...but Eve was deceived.
And, (I'll know I'll be unpopular for this, but...) I do believe that the reason why women do have the limitation of needing male authority is because we are more prone to deception.
I say this because:
a: It was the reason why Paul told Timothy that women weren't to be the authority and teachers in the church.
b: The personal experiences that I've had in churches that allow women at the top authority...those churches seem very prone to all kinds of deception.
For example, one of the biggest arguments during the ELCA's discussions about ordaining openly gay and lesbian ministers came from women who made it a "civil rights" issue.
Now, I don't believe all women are prone to deception...and I do think a case can be made that if men fail to do their job as leaders in the church, God may very well send a woman to do the job.
But, God did place man over the woman. I think that women who are gifted as teachers can most definitely share their knowledge...but I do believe that this should be done under the authority of the men.
The denomination I'm in does not ordain women...nor (at least in my church) do women take any active role in during the worship service (reading, preaching, communion assistant, etc.)...but that's not to say that we don't have any voice at all. I've shared many times during the adult Sunday School and have had the Pastor and others thank me for my insights. Have men "learned" a thing or two from me? Yes, I think so. But, I'm not the leader of the class...nor would I wish to be.
Webb, right after my post you posted:
Read the text again, it gives her limits.
I'm a little confused...was that in response to me?
...but Eve was deceived.
And, (I'll know I'll be unpopular for this, but...) I do believe that the reason why women do have the limitation of needing male authority is because we are more prone to deception.
I say this because:
a: It was the reason why Paul told Timothy that women weren't to be the authority and teachers in the church.
b: The personal experiences that I've had in churches that allow women at the top authority...those churches seem very prone to all kinds of deception.
For example, one of the biggest arguments during the ELCA's discussions about ordaining openly gay and lesbian ministers came from women who made it a "civil rights" issue.
Now, I don't believe all women are prone to deception...and I do think a case can be made that if men fail to do their job as leaders in the church, God may very well send a woman to do the job.
But, God did place man over the woman. I think that women who are gifted as teachers can most definitely share their knowledge...but I do believe that this should be done under the authority of the men.
The denomination I'm in does not ordain women...nor (at least in my church) do women take any active role in during the worship service (reading, preaching, communion assistant, etc.)...but that's not to say that we don't have any voice at all. I've shared many times during the adult Sunday School and have had the Pastor and others thank me for my insights. Have men "learned" a thing or two from me? Yes, I think so. But, I'm not the leader of the class...nor would I wish to be.
Webb, right after my post you posted:
Read the text again, it gives her limits.
I'm a little confused...was that in response to me?
jasoncran
Member
lol, its the other way around. i am of jewish decent, and according to my dad( iw asnt temple raised he was). the jews sing and also read the law.hmm what to do christians do? sing first then read the word or teach from it.
so, you are saying God is wrong for using women or any willing vessel to do his will? look i am not for lowering standards but someone has to do it.
"Someone has to do it". My faith in God and his word is: He will provide. Its not up to me to improvise His Word.
The synagogue came into existence somewhere in the period between the testaments. Because synagogues may have had women perform in their services and because they read and sing and therefore me may do so in the church today is in my view a weak argument to say the least. The church has its pattern set forth in the NT, not something that originated between the testaments, and that without any instruction from OT scriptures. At ALL times I'd rather as much as within me is try to be on the safe side in God's word.
The synagogue came into existence somewhere in the period between the testaments. Because synagogues may have had women perform in their services and because they read and sing and therefore me may do so in the church today is in my view a weak argument to say the least. The church has its pattern set forth in the NT, not something that originated between the testaments, and that without any instruction from OT scriptures. At ALL times I'd rather as much as within me is try to be on the safe side in God's word.
jasoncran
Member
so then these men and women dont pray? really? you really want to ask me to whip out the mighty deeds of a white country women in small church that has done great things that most of the white. male only leadership here wouldnt do?
invite blacks to the church and also try to reach the homeless.
the purpose of the talmud is for the decisions of the judges and priests, why jesus celebrated a talmudic tradition.
but that is another topic and also i hate to bust your little bubble the christian churches do the same. they are traditions that they follow that arent in the bible that arent sin.
You're getting emotional and subjective. What has this subject got to do with "mighty deeds", inviting "blacks" and the "homeless" etc.? But I guess such is the case when one does not remain with scripture. Doesn't faith come by hearing the word of God, Rom.10:17. Present scripture for your idea of the woman's role in the church and I'll join you. I don't mean to belittle you in any way but as for me I'll stay with the Word.
More about the synagogue when I have time to get back.
More about the synagogue when I have time to get back.
Hi the Lords
Misogyny is distrust and hatred for women. Christianity, the NT, exalts women to their higihest of anything else the world has ever known, yet I Cor.14:34,35 continues to read "let your women keep silence in the churches" and "for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." Consider please Who inspired Paul to write this.
Misogyny is distrust and hatred for women. Christianity, the NT, exalts women to their higihest of anything else the world has ever known, yet I Cor.14:34,35 continues to read "let your women keep silence in the churches" and "for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." Consider please Who inspired Paul to write this.
theLords
Member
I know the proper context of those verses. I know who inspired Paul, and I know who invented that misogynistic view that women should not dare make a peep while in church. It's man's doctrine, not God's Word. ;)
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