Works for Salvation: Humility

[Iconoclast]

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Cor

Which Jesus? The Mormon one, The JW one.

"The problem with denominations are the doctrines that are are created. When one takes a passage out of context, historical setting, or culture etc or its truth. And bounds others together without understanding. And says you must believe this are you are not saved."

Are cults saved?They mention Jesus.

 

[Corinth77777]

Which Jesus? The Mormon one, The JW one.

I only know of one

Are cults saved?They mention Jesus.

Saved from what?
Man looks on the outter appearance God looks at the heart.


One can be delivered from fear
One Can be delivered from being dead in sin
One can be delivered from present sin
One can be delivered from illness
One can be delivered from being in an accident
One can be delivered from child bearing

Moreover salvation is a Life, not just one moment in time as The late Willard quotes

" Salvation is not an event — it is a life. It is not just forgiveness and a “ticket to heaven” — it is an interactive life with God, participating now in what Jesus is doing on earth. The Biblical word for salvation is deliverance."

The question we must all asked ourselves is this passage:

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?."

In Regards to Salvation what I do know is this:

The word tells us this in Acts 10: 35 but in every nation the person who fears Him and does righteousness is acceptable to Him.
"The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
1 John

To add some understanding to the word "know"
Look at this passage:

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


"The knowledge of God is life-giving. "The knowledge of God brings grace and peace in abundance " NET
That know is in the sense of Adam knew Eve, an intimate relationship.

If you can see John 17:3 clearly as an interactive relationship..
Then you might see the meaning of Baptism in the so called great commission.

Why immerse them in the presence of The holy trinity teaching them to do all that I have commnded...? because there lies our life and help.

Then we can actually see the words come to life in us that Paul states: its no longer I, but Christ who lives in me.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2

With that Back to the argument of Dona
Whose faith In Gal 2 does he live by now in the world? By the faith of the Son of God.

What was the Faith of the son? Obedience/His Trust in God /God is in Controll? Hence the passage, There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus that walk not after the flesh but the Spirit. For the law of the life giving Spirit has set us free from the law of sin and death.

The fruit of the Spirit

is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.





.

 

[Randy]

The above used to make a lot of sense to me many years ago.
I used to say that baptism is an outward expression of an inner change.

I believe one is saved before being baptized,,,as you said, the faith in one's heart and the confession of that faith is what saves us. Romans 10: 9-11

But Jesus said to be baptized.
We have to go with what Jesus said whenever there's any doubt about something.
I've come to understand this and not to debate it.

Jesus purchased us back, redeemed us, from the evil one by His sacrifice...
His blood washes all of humanity because He died for everyone and those that accept this sacrifice will be saved.
However, and I don't really understand why, He DID say that we are to be baptized.
So it can't be just a sign of something - it has to be real.
Everything Jesus did was real. Even miracles were a sign - but they were real in that they worked.

The importance is in bold.
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

I don't count a pledge of a clear conscience towards God as something apart or in addition to the grace of God received through faith. Those that are condemned are those that don't believe. It has also been stated elsewhere we were baptized into Christ's death and we will be raised in His resurrection.

However, the words of the Lord as spoken through the prophet Joel were also testified to, "whosoever calls on the Lord will be saved" and Paul tied that prophecy to the salvation of those who believe in their hearts and confess with their mouth Christ Jesus as Lord and savior. The absence of water baptism here for being saved is noted but not faith and confession such faith.

“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

 

[Corinth77777]

@TimRoss Upsetthegram | Prayer room | Prayer room · Original audio

@TimRoss Upsetthegram. Prayer room · Original audio

www.facebook.com

 

[Corinth77777]

The above used to make a lot of sense to me many years ago.
I used to say that baptism is an outward expression of an inner change.

I believe one is saved before being baptized,,,as you said, the faith in one's heart and the confession of that faith is what saves us. Romans 10: 9-11

Yes, saved because they were made alive, born again quicken together with Christ

I believe it is an outward expression especially when you been born again. Knowing that in order to live you must die.
So its a committment to who you are following.
The King Jesus - therefore in the name of the king. Jesus

But Jesus said to be baptized.

Give the scriptures so we can look at them..tks

We have to go with what Jesus said whenever there's any doubt about something.

True

I've come to understand this and not to debate it.

Jesus purchased us back, redeemed us, from the evil one by His sacrifice...
His blood washes all of humanity because He died for everyone and those that accept this sacrifice will be saved.
However, and I don't really understand why, He DID say that we are to be baptized.

So it can't be just a sign of something - it has to be real.
Everything Jesus did was real. Even miracles were a sign - but they were real in that they worked.

 

[Corinth77777]

The importance is in bold.
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

I don't count a pledge of a clear conscience towards God as something apart or in addition to the grace of God received through faith. Those that are condemned are those that don't believe. It has also been stated elsewhere we were baptized into Christ's death and we will be raised in His resurrection.

True Randy because You are not going to make a pledge to something you dont believe.

and if you believe you already received the Spirit and were regenerated. And that definitely was grace because a dead person can't make themselves alive. But they can use what God gave them naturally, a mind to believe.

And no one earns or merits anything because they mentally believe Jesus is who God said He was. To trust Him for His finished work.

However, the words of the Lord as spoken through the prophet Joel were also testified to, "whosoever calls on the Lord will be saved"

And those who call upon Him are those that have already believed.
For how can you call upon the one you have not believed
Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?”

and Paul tied that prophecy to the salvation of those who believe in their hearts and confess with their mouth Christ Jesus as Lord and savior. The absence of water baptism here for being saved is noted but not faith and confession such faith.

“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Amen

 

[Corinth77777]

The importance is in bold.
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

How does water symbolize baptisms that saves us now?
I think there is a better version that is more in alignment

My thoughts
If baptism is a committment to being a sevant to God then we must be committed to dying to the flesh; what we can do in our natural abilities out of alignment with God's.

The interesting thing could be if I'm interpreting correctly is that
We are Baptize into Christ where He has conquered death so our allegiance is to our king. We also must conquer through Him. As a matter of fact scripture says we are more than conquerers through Him that loved us; don't quote me off my head.



When Jesus was baptized did not heaven and earth testify of Him...if so how?

These are just some things we all can look into...Im enjoying you guy's honest delightful conversation.

And this prefigured baptism, which now saves you – not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience to God – through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


It's Christ's Baptism that saves us -When we believe we are baptized into His Baptism. His death. Oh! that why we are seated in heavenly places with Christ.

Yes so definitely an outward expression of what has happen in the inside. But not just for us for the world to know what actually happens.

Because man looks at the outter appearance, God looks at the heart.

I don't count a pledge of a clear conscience towards God as something apart or in addition to the grace of God received through faith. Those that are condemned are those that don't believe. It has also been stated elsewhere we were baptized into Christ's death and we will be raised in His resurrection.

However, the words of the Lord as spoken through the prophet Joel were also testified to, "whosoever calls on the Lord will be saved" and Paul tied that prophecy to the salvation of those who believe in their hearts and confess with their mouth Christ Jesus as Lord and savior. The absence of water baptism here for being saved is noted but not faith and confession such faith.

“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

God is not served by the dying hands as a will of mankind

Yes, hear the call of the living word. . "near". . not in. Those who hear the gospel not having the power to hear the understanding coming from the faith of Christ.

Yoked with the believer He performs in us both the hearing and power to do it to his good pleasure Some murmur and desire to die like Jonah. Jesus the son of man did the will of the father with delight empowered by the Father to do the first works (again empower them to both hear and do the eternal will of the Father.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

The key is both to hear and do ,Being near provids no salvation.

 

[Corinth77777]

One more thing
When Jesus in the so called great commission
Said go make disciples of all nations

I think it is good to look at what happened in John the Baptist's Baptism.

I believe they heard a teaching, and when they choosed to follow they were water baptized, meaning they made a committment to follow. See how obedience to the word saves.

Therefore as I said early
To Baptise in the :
Name of the father
Name of the son
Name of the Holyghost

Were teachings they were to be immersed in, so they would obey.

So an example might be/ but may be wrong :It was God that sent John the Baptist to teach repentance. And remember John telling the pharasees He would not baptize them, that they needed to bring forth fruit of repentance?

And then Recall A passage that says have you received the holy Spirit sense you believed? And they answered that they only knew of Johns Baptism. And then they taught Christ.

Also the statement that a man was making more followers than Jesus.
........
Because now they had to believe upon Christ.

Okay this is relevant but does not make sense, because the immersion as in the red sea would be to be surrounded or immersed in the trinity's presence. AND it was Jesus that commanded them to teach or make followers by all that He had taught them.


What did Jesus teach them?- basically how to live in the kingdom
So even though the above Is relevent I think its may be how we are to operate in means of the Father, son, and Holy ghost.

But again something to meditate on by means of how the disciples went out teaching.

 

[Corinth77777]

God is not served by the dying hands as a will of mankind

Yes, hear the call of the living word. . "near". . not in. Those who hear the gospel not having the power to hear the understanding coming from the faith of Christ.

Yoked with the believer He performs in us both the hearing and power to do it to his good pleasure Some murmur and desire to die like Jonah. Jesus the son of man did the will of the father with delight empowered by the Father to do the first works (again empower them to both hear and do the eternal will of the Father.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

The key is both to hear and do ,Being near provids no salvation.

One can't do until they have received the Spirit. One must be born again first. THEN ONE IS JUSTIFIED BEFORE MAN BY WHAT THEY DO.

 

[Corinth77777]

How did heaven and earth testify of Christ?

 

[Corinth77777]

How did heaven and earth testify of Christ?

God proclaimed who He was at His public BAPTISM, AND PEOPLE SAW HIS WORKS.

 

[Iconoclast]

I only know of one

You miss the point totally

Saved from what?
Man looks on the outter appearance God looks at the heart.


One can be delivered from fear
One Can be delivered from being dead in sin
One can be delivered from present sin
One can be delivered from illness
One can be delivered from being in an accident
One can be delivered from child bearing

Moreover salvation is a Life, not just one moment in time as The late Willard quotes

" Salvation is not an event — it is a life. It is not just forgiveness and a “ticket to heaven” — it is an interactive life with God, participating now in what Jesus is doing on earth. The Biblical word for salvation is deliverance."

The question we must all asked ourselves is this passage:

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?."

In Regards to Salvation what I do know is this:

The word tells us this in Acts 10: 35 but in every nation the person who fears Him and does righteousness is acceptable to Him.
"The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
1 John

To add some understanding to the word "know"
Look at this passage:

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


"The knowledge of God is life-giving. "The knowledge of God brings grace and peace in abundance " NET
That know is in the sense of Adam knew Eve, an intimate relationship.

If you can see John 17:3 clearly as an interactive relationship..
Then you might see the meaning of Baptism in the so called great commission.

Why immerse them in the presence of The holy trinity teaching them to do all that I have commnded...? because there lies our life and help.

Then we can actually see the words come to life in us that Paul states: its no longer I, but Christ who lives in me.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2

With that Back to the argument of Dona
Whose faith In Gal 2 does he live by now in the world? By the faith of the Son of God.

What was the Faith of the son? Obedience/His Trust in God /God is in Controll? Hence the passage, There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus that walk not after the flesh but the Spirit. For the law of the life giving Spirit has set us free from the law of sin and death.

The fruit of the Spirit

is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

So after saying doctrine is the problem, you are now offering your version of doctrine, and not really responding to the things you are asked.

.

 

[Iconoclast]

God proclaimed who He was at His public BAPTISM, AND PEOPLE SAW HIS WORKS.

Did you see His works? Or do you have to appeal to the doctrine of Christology to explain it to us?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I do believe the sign of the New Covenant is the Eucharist or Communion.
It can't be baptism (although some theologians believe it is) IMHO because of the reasons you stated above ---
"baptism" always existed in one way or another.
Even the persons in the Ark were saved by the water.
And the Israelites....and what you posted above.

The ark, a representation of faith. The hidden unseen things (glory) of God the golden measure

The persons in the ark were saved by the will of God. They remained dry water on the outside . H20 cannot save a soul .H20 in parables represent the doctrines of God that fall from above. also called the water of the word. God pouring out His Holy Spirit on dying flesh . Not earthly inspired from Rome.

The sign of the new covenant is seen in the new ceremonial law (1 Corinthian 11). a two fold sign that as a shadow looks ahead to the wedding supper, bread and blood of grapes or wine .

It looks ahead to our new incorruptible bodies as a sign to the world (not a sign to themselves) no sign gifts .

H20 represents of his eternal unseen glory. The old testament shadows in cerinimoinal laws (they do nothing to the user. al of the shadows became sight during the first century reformation (Hebrews)

The new Corinthians 11. A Beautiful gospel picture as a sign to the unbelieving world .

The hair covering. Hair represent the glory of God . Man is not to cover hair or head .He represents Christ unseen . The mans representational glory is the woman . .She is signified the whole church as the bride of Christ . God did not leave her without a representative glory of her own . Her hair it must be covered so that the only glory seen is the signified not seen with human eyes. If not covered shave it off to represent shame as one that that is not born again from above

It's all about the unseen glory of God used in parables.

1 Corinthians 11: 1-7 King James Version Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head (Christ) But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, (hair) forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

 

[Corinth77777]

Did you see His works? Or do you have to appeal to the doctrine of Christology to explain it to us?

Making a statement as to learn to see if it can be validated is not the same as lumping scriptues together without correct contextual, historical, cultural, dispensational and other similar situations, and then viewing through that lens.

And to add, trusting in that doctrine itself rather than trusting in Christ.

ANYTHING THAT IS NOT OF/FROM FAITH IS SIN

I did not say all doctrine was false. But if it does not lead to life of righteousness, peace, and joy and to love from a pure heart but to judging others when you are not God and acts that come from fear, then one may want to recheck that doctrine.

And for many when you try to add works to Faith when it comes to being born again, then you are saying you and God saved you. That can't be the foundation. When it's the faith/faithfulness of Christ alone that saves.

The effect of that is legalism. That is why in the video " Why I left the Church of Christ" the man calls himself a Pharisee.
Legalisms deals with things you must do. But Faith in Christ is who you will become as a result of your relationship.

Legalism means you can Judge because you do this and others don't. That is why salvation is not found in any other name but Jesus. Because it would boast that one is better than the other when all good things are from the Lord.

 

[Randy]

God is not served by the dying hands as a will of mankind

Yes, hear the call of the living word. . "near". . not in. Those who hear the gospel not having the power to hear the understanding coming from the faith of Christ.

Yoked with the believer He performs in us both the hearing and power to do it to his good pleasure Some murmur and desire to die like Jonah. Jesus the son of man did the will of the father with delight empowered by the Father to do the first works (again empower them to both hear and do the eternal will of the Father.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

The key is both to hear and do ,Being near provids no salvation.

Those who belong to God hear what God says.
They shall all be taught by God.
How did Jesus define this: Those who listen and learn from the Father come to Him.

About such believing people.
“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

 

[Randy]

The above used to make a lot of sense to me many years ago.
I used to say that baptism is an outward expression of an inner change.

I believe one is saved before being baptized,,,as you said, the faith in one's heart and the confession of that faith is what saves us. Romans 10: 9-11

But Jesus said to be baptized.
We have to go with what Jesus said whenever there's any doubt about something.
I've come to understand this and not to debate it.

Jesus purchased us back, redeemed us, from the evil one by His sacrifice...
His blood washes all of humanity because He died for everyone and those that accept this sacrifice will be saved.
However, and I don't really understand why, He DID say that we are to be baptized.
So it can't be just a sign of something - it has to be real.
Everything Jesus did was real. Even miracles were a sign - but they were real in that they worked.

I'll expect if someone who doesn't believe gets baptized all that will happen is they get wet. Because its grace through "Faith" that we are saved.

 

[Corinth77777]

Making a statement as to learn to see if it can be validated is not the same as lumping scriptues together without correct contextual, historical, cultural, dispensational and other similar situations, and then viewing through that lens.

And to add, trusting in that doctrine itself rather than trusting in Christ.

ANYTHING THAT IS NOT OF/FROM FAITH IS SIN

I did not say all doctrine was false. But if it does not lead to life of righteousness, peace, and joy and to love from a pure heart but to judging others when you are not God and acts that come from fear, then one may want to recheck that doctrine.

And for many when you try to add works to Faith when it comes to being born again, then you are saying you and God saved you. That can't be the foundation. When it's the faith/faithfulness of Christ alone that saves.

The effect of that is legalism. That is why in the video " Why I left the Church of Christ" the man calls himself a Pharisee.
Legalisms deals with things you must do. But Faith in Christ is who you will become as a result of your relationship.

Legalism means you can Judge because you do this and others don't. That is why salvation is not found in any other name but Jesus. Because it would boast that one is better than the other when all good things are from the Lord.

The ark, a representation of faith. The hidden unseen things (glory) of God the golden measure

The persons in the ark were saved by the will of God. They remained dry water on the outside . H20 cannot save a soul .H20 in parables represent the doctrines of God that fall from above. also called the water of the word. God pouring out His Holy Spirit on dying flesh . Not earthly inspired from Rome.

Saved through the water. Makes you wonder if Even His Glory is set apart/holy . I wonder if only what is made of the same substance could exist in it? The ark went through the water, and the water was not just underneath. It surrounded it from the rain pouring down. WHICH IMPLIES TO ME THAT the ONLY THING/person that could withold is what was made for that purpose. It withstood the test.

Therefore the Baptism that saves is immersion into Christ's/ God's teaching through belief/faith. So was Noah already saved even before He entered the ark? My answer is Yes and that is why God made away to continue to protect Him.
Plus it says :

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Correct me where I am wrong

The sign of the new covenant is seen in the new ceremonial law (1 Corinthian 11). a two fold sign that as a shadow looks ahead to the wedding supper, bread and blood of grapes or wine .

I had communion yesterday and thought about that...

It looks ahead to our new incorruptible bodies as a sign to the world (not a sign to themselves) no sign gifts .

Interesting my spouse and I just had a conversation last night about if Baptism and the Eucharist were signs to the world, or for us in a specific way or both.

H20 represents of his eternal unseen glory. The old testament shadows in cerinimoinal laws (they do nothing to the user. al of the shadows became sight during the first century reformation (Hebrews)

Please share scripture that expresses this so we can understand better. Tks

The new Corinthians 11. A Beautiful gospel picture as a sign to the unbelieving world .

The hair covering. Hair represent the glory of God . Man is not to cover hair or head .He represents Christ unseen . The mans representational glory is the woman . .She is signified the whole church as the bride of Christ . God did not leave her without a representative glory of her own . Her hair it must be covered so that the only glory seen is the signified not seen with human eyes. If not covered shave it off to represent shame as one that that is not born again from above

It's all about the unseen glory of God used in parables.

Elaborate please As to the meaning of Glory. Does it mean image or light? Would love to know more and I'll probably read this again.

1 Corinthians 11: 1-7 King James Version Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head (Christ) But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, (hair) forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

deep

 

[GodsGrace]

Cannot enter the kingdom (new covenant)

Jn 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

God provides an entrance into the kingdom.

2 pet 1:11

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Grace is administered by the apostles

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Thanks

Hi Don,
I don't know what bible version you're using.
Two comments because, as you might know by now, I'm trying to narrow the differences between the Catholic and Protestant church - not that they'll ever agree on some things, but versions sometimes translate something differently which doesn't help much.

2 Corinthians 8:19 in the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, which even Scott Hahn (I really like and respect him) worked on or edited states the following:

And not only that, but he (probably Luke or Barnabas) has been appointed by the churches to travel with us in this GRACIOUS work which we are carrying on for the glory of the Lord to show our good will.

The difference is important because in your version it sounds like the "he" is going to administer the grace.
I can't find any version that states it this way.

Of course I agree that sacraments administer God's grace....
But we can't make it sound like that is the ONLY way a person can receive grace.
God freely gives His grace to all that desire it. Many verses, I'll only post them if you want me to.

That's my only point here.