Works for Salvation: Humility

[GodsGrace]

Where does it say...catholic church???? lol...Catholic means universal....No where does it say...Roman Catholic...no where does it say...POPE...no where. Peter was not the 1st POPE......you say that, false RC. church makes that claim...the Bible does not teach it.

Calvinism was not mentioned till you suggested the term W , and we know you do not understand it at all. So , park your bias, and allow for open honest discussion.

Not here.

 

[GodsGrace]

I noticed that you did not actually answer randy, but side stepped his fine post.



The bible does not say or teach that anywhere.



Not in scripture, but only in the RC. imagination



water baptism does not cause new birth, not found in scripture.

water does not cause new creation

Complete fabrication

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[GodsGrace]

Why I left the church of Christ

The videos are not available everywhere.
Maybe you could post what they stated?
Just a suggestion...

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Your opinion or scripture?

I’ll choose scripture

1 pet 3:21 baptism now saves you!

1 pet 3:21 baptism now saves you!

I will chose the meaning of scripture. Water baptism can save a fish. The baptism of the Holy Spirt saves those given a new spirit .

 

[Mr. G Lee]

The merits of the blood of Jesus are applied to our souls by the church in the administration of the sacraments! 2 pet 1:11

Literal spiritless blood must be poured out so it can return to dust. Blood like water represent the work of the unseen Holy Spirit pouring out His Spirit on dying flesh and blood in jeopardy of his own powerful Spirit.

 

[Randy]

Hi Randy,
There's a FORM that must be followed in order to be baptized.
Jesus stated what this form is in Matthew 28:19....
He said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

When acts speaks of being baptized in the name of Jesus, it's just differentiating between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus.

The FORM remains as Jesus stated it should be.

Apparently it was more commonly done in those days. That is baptize in the name of Jesus.

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when a you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

 

[Iconoclast]

We’re not trusting the Baptists for anything!

Where does the Bible say the “Bible is the only authority”?

The answer is Christ and His church! Matt 28:19

Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

And if “the Bible is the only authority” then there can be no authentic interpretation!

This list of off topic verses does not address the issue.

 

[Corinth77777]

Apparently it was more commonly done in those days. That is baptize in the name of Jesus.

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when a you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Apparently it was more commonly done in those days. That is baptize in the name of Jesus.

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when a you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

I think for different teachings there were different baptisms.
One was the Baptism of repentance

So maybe John’s teaching? Rethink your thinking about how you been living.

And now another teaching where they hear about Jesus that He has come and died and Rose- how salvation is found in Him.

So maybe this is part of what it means to Baptize in the name of the Trinity.

REPENT, Believe, Receive

Repentence of the Father - bring forth fruit of repentance

Belief in the Son- Learn about who He is what He did with intent to follow

Receive the Holy Ghost -will lead you and guide you into all truth, is your Help....etc

The resurrected power of Christ coming upon those operating by the Spirit.

Recall the so called great comission : Baptize by doing what? teaching them to do all that I have commanded.

One Baptism in the Water of the word/ Christ Jesus. Those that call upon the name of the Lord- as those who looked up at the serpent and were delivered.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. ACTS 22:16

It seems like He is equating water baptisn ( what they knew about) with calling on the name of the Lord.

And remember the scripture that goes like: how can they call upon the one they have not heard... and how beautiful are the feet of the one that brings good news. Those who call upon the name are those who have believed.

As unity of believers are brothers by the same Spirit



Has it been revealed to one who Christ is and what He did that proved it.
Son of the living God, Peter answered, and Jesus said the Father revealed that to Him.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God And the word was God

So reverse this and you see how one is redeemed

Jesus is the living word. His life demonstrated how He lived on the earth. One believes Jesus they have the Father,
Redeemed. Now how you are Justified. Is a different matter but close.

And one has to go back to How God dealt with His chosen.
Therefore Justification does not have to be a one time event in my opinion. For Sometimes they strayed away- For if my people who were called by my name shall humble themselves, pray and seek my face then shall I hear from heaven and forgive their sins.

So that beggs the question of what comes first. Justification or born from above, quicken together with Christ.

Because many people believe your sins are forgiven before you receive the Spirit. But I don't think so ooo. Not to say they both can't happen close together.

These were just some of my thoughts that could change with knowledge. Please dont quote my scripture because I was just remembering off my head and they may not be complete.

 

[Corinth77777]

I think for different teachings there were different baptisms.
One was the Baptism of repentance

So maybe John’s teaching? Rethink your thinking about how you been living.

And now another teaching where they hear about Jesus that He has come and died and Rose- how salvation is found in Him.

So maybe this is part of what it means to Baptize in the name of the Trinity.

REPENT, Believe, Receive

Repentence of the Father - bring forth fruit of repentance

Belief in the Son- Learn about who He is what He did with intent to follow

Receive the Holy Ghost -will lead you and guide you into all truth, is your Help....etc

The resurrected power of Christ coming upon those operating by the Spirit.

Recall the so called great comission : Baptize by doing what? teaching them to do all that I have commanded.

One Baptism in the Water of the word/ Christ Jesus. Those that call upon the name of the Lord- as those who looked up at the serpent and were delivered.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. ACTS 22:16

It seems like He is equating water baptisn ( what they knew about) with calling on the name of the Lord.

And remember the scripture that goes like: how can they call upon the one they have not heard... and how beautiful are the feet of the one that brings good news. Those who call upon the name are those who have believed.

As unity of believers are brothers by the same Spirit



Has it been revealed to one who Christ is and what He did that proved it.
Son of the living God, Peter answered, and Jesus said the Father revealed that to Him.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God And the word was God

So reverse this and you see how one is redeemed

Jesus is the living word. His life demonstrated how He lived on the earth. One believes Jesus they have the Father,
Redeemed. Now how you are Justified. Is a different matter but close.

And one has to go back to How God dealt with His chosen.
Therefore Justification does not have to be a one time event in my opinion. For Sometimes they strayed away- For if my people who were called by my name shall humble themselves, pray and seek my face then shall I hear from heaven and forgive their sins.

So that beggs the question of what comes first. Justification or born from above, quicken together with Christ.

Because many people believe your sins are forgiven before you receive the Spirit. But I don't think so ooo. Not to say they both can't happen close together.

These were just some of my thoughts that could change with knowledge. Please dont quote my scripture because I was just remembering off my head and they may not be complete.

The problem with denominations are the doctrines that are are created. When one takes a passage out of context, historical setting, or culture etc or its truth. And bounds others together without understanding. And says you must believe this are you are not saved.

In reality your beginning is your end. So we must have the correct foundation and build on it. The rock that the builders rejected.

The foundation is Christ, not a system of doctrines

Not realizing that it's Jesus we are to believe and put our trust in, not belief in a system of knowledge. FOR belief in Him is how one is born from above.

Because eternal life is that they may know the only true God and Jesus Christ who He has sent.

Putting trust in a system of Denominational knowledge leads to Pharisees behavior.

Its religiosity - for it becomes something you must believe to be saved, Which is something you must Do for Salvation.

And not Christ you are to believe in. which really is what they say they are against but do without noticing they are doing it.

The Church of Christ is not the only one that does that.

So one can have knowledge but not according to truth.
And it's the truth that sets you free.

AS Jesus said you must be born again, Trust Jesus so that you can be born from above. For faith works by Love not fear.

Recall the statement that niether circumcision nor non circumcision avails for anything, the only thing that matter is faith working by love.

Think about what He is saying.

KJV​

​

​

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Ask why the fear? Trusting in our abilities instead of Jesus's finished work. Labor to inter his rest and we cease from our own works.

It says we who have believed have entered that rest...

I think if we operate from fear we must believe something incorrectly.
 

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Hi Randy,
There's a FORM that must be followed in order to be baptized.
Jesus stated what this form is in Matthew 28:19....
He said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

When acts speaks of being baptized in the name of Jesus, it's just differentiating between the baptism of John and the baptism of Jesus.

The FORM remains as Jesus stated it should be.

The foundation for all doctrines is found in the Old Testament like all ceremonial laws used as shadows that used water the temporal seen to represent the unseen eternal work of the Holy Spirit , pouring out his Spirit life on dying flesh of mankind as if it was water.

No sign outward gifts neither getting wet or pronouncing words without meaning called tongues.

The form of baptism was needed when a new member desired personality to be part of the priesthood of believers and desired to give a testimony to the world. It is founded in the Old Testament under the family of levite .When Jesus came from the tribe of Judah men and women priest from all the nations of the world Sends them out two by two .

Aarons two sons on the first day having been baptised as a ceremonial law or shadow .They added the own personal touch I did it it proves something. Both were consumed by fire not a hint of smoke on their priestly ceremonial attire.

Can't worship shadows of the eternal

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I think for different teachings there were different baptisms.
One was the Baptism of repentance

They are all baptisms of repenting. God's Holy Spirit turning mankind to God not seen.To both will and do the god pleasure of God not seen .

Repentence of the Father - bring forth fruit of repentance

Belief in the Son- Learn about who He is what He did with intent to follow

Receive the Holy Ghost -will lead you and guide you into all truth, is your Help....etc

God the faithful Creator is not a dying man in any way shape or form. He created them."Let there be" and "it was good",

The wrath of God comes to those who worship the flesh of dying mankind and not the unseen holy Spirt of the Holy Father

Romans 1: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Repentance a work or labor of love of the Father the Holy Spirit or power of God . The Son of man Jesus living in a earthen body of death has no power of his own. The Father working in him turning the Son of man Jesus to hear and do his will

.Jesus did the will of the father with delight. Some like Jonah murmured choosing to rather die and than see the outcome of his hatred to those he was moved to preach the gospel. The mark of the word .What God says comes to pass .

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we (TO INCLUDE OUR BROTHER IN THE lORD, JESUS) have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Iconoclast]

The problem with denominations are the doctrines that are are created. When one takes a passage out of context, historical setting, or culture etc or its truth. And bounds others together without understanding. And says you must believe this are you are not saved.

In reality your beginning is your end. So we must have the correct foundation and build on it. The rock that the builders rejected.

The foundation is Christ, not a system of doctrines

This sounds nice and pious until you are called upon to explain it.

Not realizing that it's Jesus we are to believe and put our trust in, not belief in a system of knowledge.

You cannot escape doctrine. You think you can, but you cannot. "It's Jesus" we need to believe in?
Which Jesus?4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

FOR belief in Him is how one is born from above.

Because eternal life is that they may know the only true God and Jesus Christ who He has sent.

Putting trust in a system of Denominational knowledge leads to Pharisees behavior.

Its religiosity - for it becomes something you must believe to be saved, Which is something you must Do for Salvation.

And not Christ you are to believe in. which really is what they say they are against but do without noticing they are doing it.

The Church of Christ is not the only one that does that.

So one can have knowledge but not according to truth.
And it's the truth that sets you free.

AS Jesus said you must be born again, Trust Jesus so that you can be born from above. For faith works by Love not fear.

Recall the statement that niether circumcision nor non circumcision avails for anything, the only thing that matter is faith working by love.

Think about what He is saying.

KJV​

​

​

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Ask why the fear? Trusting in our abilities instead of Jesus's finished work. Labor to inter his rest and we cease from our own works.

It says we who have believed have entered that rest...

I think if we operate from fear we must believe something incorrectly.
 

 

[GodsGrace]

Ez 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And they immediately went to the river and baptized

And Mk 16:16 faith and baptism

Cannot enter the kingdom with being born again so it’s the initiation into the new covenant
Administered by the apostolic church 2 pet 1:11

Thanks

I do believe the sign of the New Covenant is the Eucharist or Communion.
It can't be baptism (although some theologians believe it is) IMHO because of the reasons you stated above ---
"baptism" always existed in one way or another.
Even the persons in the Ark were saved by the water.
And the Israelites....and what you posted above.

 

[Corinth77777]

The most important thing in your life is not what you do; it’s who you become. That’s what you will take into eternity.” Dallas Willard.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes its shown as becoming saved by accepting Christ by who He is and what He did.
But the washing is by the Spirit of God not the water. The inward not the outward. The faith in ones heart and confession of that faith in Christ during that baptism is the importance. Jesus purchased us for God "by His blood" not anything we do. We are merely believing in that and acknowledging acceptance of that "invite" as in receiving Him as our Lord and savior.

Those who state such baptism should still be able to hold to grace through faith.

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

The above used to make a lot of sense to me many years ago.
I used to say that baptism is an outward expression of an inner change.

I believe one is saved before being baptized,,,as you said, the faith in one's heart and the confession of that faith is what saves us. Romans 10: 9-11

But Jesus said to be baptized.
We have to go with what Jesus said whenever there's any doubt about something.
I've come to understand this and not to debate it.

Jesus purchased us back, redeemed us, from the evil one by His sacrifice...
His blood washes all of humanity because He died for everyone and those that accept this sacrifice will be saved.
However, and I don't really understand why, He DID say that we are to be baptized.
So it can't be just a sign of something - it has to be real.
Everything Jesus did was real. Even miracles were a sign - but they were real in that they worked.

 

[GodsGrace]

The hymn says...what can wash away your sins, nothing but the blood of Jesus. It says that, because the bible teaches it.

Could you post some scripture instead of hymns?
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

The most important thing in your life is not what you do; it’s who you become. That’s what you will take into eternity.” Dallas Willard.

Agreed.
But if you become what God wants you to become...
you will also DO.

 

[Corinth77777]

This sounds nice and pious until you are called upon to explain it.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Cor

You cannot escape doctrine. You think you can, but you cannot. "It's Jesus" we need to believe in?

"The problem with denominations are the doctrines that are are created. When one takes a passage out of context, historical setting, or culture etc or its truth. And bounds others together without understanding. And says you must believe this are you are not saved."

Which Jesus?4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[Corinth77777]

They are all baptisms of repenting. God's Holy Spirit turning mankind to God not seen.To both will and do the god pleasure of God not seen .

God the faithful Creator is not a dying man in any way shape or form. He created them."Let there be" and "it was good",

Instead of "of" a better word "from"

synonyms for "of" are about, appertaining to, appropriate to, as concerns, as regards, and attributed to.

The wrath of God comes to those who worship the flesh of dying mankind and not the unseen holy Spirt of the Holy Father

Romans 1: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Repentance a work or labor of love of the Father the Holy Spirit or power of God . The Son of man Jesus living in a earthen body of death has no power of his own. The Father working in him turning the Son of man Jesus to hear and do his will

.Jesus did the will of the father with delight. Some like Jonah murmured choosing to rather die and than see the outcome of his hatred to those he was moved to preach the gospel. The mark of the word .What God says comes to pass .

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we (TO INCLUDE OUR BROTHER IN THE lORD, JESUS) have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Corinth77777]

The most important thing in your life is not what you do; it’s who you become. That’s what you will take into eternity.” Dallas Willard.

That's why He tells the Pharisees:
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.