Yes the New Testament is the blood of Jesus, baptism is the initiation into the new covenant
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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OK. I see what you mean, but we might be saying two different things - not sure.
In Acts it does say to baptize in the name of Jesus.
Acts 2:38-41
I do believe it means water baptism.
When John the Baptists was baptizing it was for the forgiveness of sins.
He said: Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand.
Matthew 3:2
He also said that after him would come One greater that would baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 3:11
We also find in the NT:
Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins.
Acts 22:16
So when we read Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
It's understood that when one is baptized in the name of Jesus, using the formula
IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT (Matthew 28:19)
a person is somehow washed clean of their sins and receives the Holy Spirit.
I say SOMEHOW because I believe a person is saved at the point of belief and I've never really understood why we should be baptized except that Jesus said we should be.
I don't think we're derailing this thread because some believe that baptism is a work.
I stick to the KJV cos that’s what most Protestants accept
The apostolic church administers the sacraments Matt 28:19
The sacraments are the means of grace. Thanks
OK Baptism is the INITIATION
The Eucharist is the SIGN
Each Covenant has a sign - which is different from inititation.
What about the cross?
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
No we can receive grace by prayer etc. but we must be in Christ by faith and baptism, the sacraments are the primary source of grace
Without baptism a person cannot enter the kingdom cos they are devoid of grace.
Thanks
Is the above a verse?
Could you post it.
And you said: This baptism that now saves you ALSO...
we do get the idea throughout the NT that we are to believe and be baptized.
Mark 16:16
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
So it would seem that first we must believe....
AND we must be baptized.
Agreed.
But as to conscience, It seems to be apart from the grace you've received from God through faith.
This does not mean that we don't receive grace to strengthen us to do what is right, but does it mean we always obey?
1 Timothy 1:19
18Timothy, my son, I am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well,
19holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.
Acts 24:16
So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward both God and man.
It just seems to me that obedience does not come all by itself, but that we cooperate in some important manner.
Right...but NOW baptism is spoken of as being necessary.
Did I already post this:
Mark 16:15-16
15He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
The He is Jesus.
Why fight what He has plainly stated?
Not only the hearers of the word will be saved...
but the doers of the word.
Do not deceive yourselves...
James 1:22
OK C, here are two verses stating that baptism is necessary:
Matthew 28:19
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Another verse where Jesus gives this command is:
Mark 16:16
16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
The first one Is speaking of immersing them in reality. Through teaching them to do all that He commanded.
Recall this passage:
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
The second one, one may take into account that this was customary
to the culture of the day. So example if a school teacher gives a sticker to those students who behaved. And she says those who behaved and got stickers may go to recess first, but those who didnt behave will go late. Plus the latter part never says those who are not baptized in water are not saved but those who did not believe.
Now when we symbolically get baptized we are making a committment to follow, And my reason would be I know He is the way to meaningful life and of abundance so I am committing myself under His rule and giving up my life by dying to the flesh.
I believe that if you truly believe that at the time of baptism unless God had already forgiven your sin, then God will show up. And some may even speak in tongues..For my spouse who has never been baptized when He made a decision to follow the scriptures open up to Him.
I also see water Baptism as a sign to the world that shows what is taking place on the inside.
And it's away we enter community relations with Jesus as the head. LIKE THE BOY SCOUT PLEDGE.
I do believe God can use any occasion as baptism to make Himself known. But it's not the water its God that saves.
And in this case He used the occasion of baptism of what was practiced in that time.
If we go back to the Law when one was made clean they were to go to the priest and the priest would present a sacrifice. Like in the leper. It was definitely a process! But the priest had to show Him as clean before He could enter the community. The other day I believe God gave me this revelation. WHAT I JUST WROTE TGAT IS.
Recall this was outward. Right (lepORSYy)
As I think I discussed earlier, and I could be wrong,
Belief in Jesus with the intent to follow is How we receive the Spirit. So as Ephesians 2, 4-9 states we were saved by being dead in trespasses and sin but quicken together with Christ.
So here you believed the word and received the Spirit. (Saved from being dead tresspass and sin) Now this is my thought-
Can a dead person seek God with the right Spirit until He is given the Spirit and made alive..My thought right now is no.
So when one believes they are given a new heart, but now what about the outside? Remember the leper, If I racall correctly He also had an outward washing. But look at this passage:
Then Jesus said to him, “Don't tell anyone about this. Instead, go to the priest and let him examine you. Take along the offering required in the law of Moses for those who have been healed of leprosy. This will be a public testimony that you have been cleansed.”
So at Baptism I believe we now are the Sacrifice or offering symbolically in the sense figuratively we are mimicking Christ.
But these are my thoughts until I learn more to confirm.
When Jesus was Baptized the Heavens opened God confirms His son so what should have taken place possibly for any one with true Faith at their Baptism is more likely the pouring out of His Spirit. But these are things I still need to look into. For God confirmed Jesus with the doves too and His words.
But look who He pours out His Spirit on:
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.
Adding but read acts the holy Spirit fell on those who heard the message. All types of flesh like poor, homeless gentiles..etc
Correct me where Im wrong
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The Kingdom Is righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holyghost.
And God can use any sitation based on faith
Where does scripure ever say that water baptism is the only way to have your sins forgiven. When Jesus forgave sin early on.
I would more be concerened about if I had righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holyghost. BECAUSE FAITH AND FEAR ARE OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER.
good to see this
THis is interesting because ....what baptism was being done here if they are called on to Repent. Was Peter here doing the Baptism of John onto repentance.
I think we need to distinguish between the
1. holy Spirit coming upon a believer
AND
2. Indwelling in a believer
For look at Jesus when He was Baptized.
He obviously believed God
The confirmation for the world was the Holy Spirit Coming upon and God announcing, this is my son in whom I am well pleased.
I agree, for God looks at the heart.
Is Baptism the work of God or the work of men.
Would you be baptized if you didn't believe?
I think James talks about the true faith that accomplishes salvation.
Jesus demonstrated
If Jesus merely believed God (mentally) none of us would be saved
He believed God was in controll.
He has the faith that works
Because He acted on what He believed.
We were given the capacity to believe, that is how we connect Spiritually. But then there is the Faith that works by love. If I am interpreting correctly that is what I see here in Gal 2:16. But could be wrong because pistis can also mean faithfulness. But best to try both on. But thank God that even the faithfulness of Christ is a result of His obedience to God the Father.
Galatians 2:16 kjv
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Regeneration seems to come before justification; forgiveness of sin.
God is the cause
Lets compare the faith of Jesus with works of the law
The Faith of Jesus comes by being caught up in God's work through ovedience and it seems to be worked in us by continually believing God. On the other hand, works of the law from man's natural ability alone that make man the Source of Salvation
The faith of Jesus
Question what is the Faith of Jesus?
One, We can say it's a faith that works by love and not fear. Because God keeps one in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him.
If one sees over and over that God protects those who love Him, then faith is being worked in Him that God can be counted on to keep His word. Which teaches us to remain in Him.
It entails obedience or faithfullness to God. Remaing in His Love.
How did Jesus learn obedience through the things He suffered?
I wonder if it's because it made Him totally depend on His father.
Anyway back to baptism. Baptism is a work but the cause is not from man's natural ability. It's from being made alive by God.
Recall that passage what must we do to do the works of God.
The work of God is that you believe on the one who was sent.
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Its stated those who don't believe will be condemned not those who believe and confess with their mouth but are not baptized in water. As we know those who don't believe take the weight of the guilt from their own sin to the grave. As I have already shown its also stated "whosoever calls on the Lord will be saved as in believing in their heart and confessing with their mouth. So I find its a matter of debate in regard to believing and being saved only through water baptism which by the way states "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" and a good will pledge towards God. But this thread is not about water baptism but about being saved through faith or works of salvation that is humility. I maintain grace through faith. A righteousness that is credited from first to last by faith. We are made clean by the grace of God received through our faith in Christ. Not any of are own works. I am not against water baptism.
1 Peter 3:21-22 New International Version (NIV)
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!
It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?
So don’t negate the word of God or the eternal words of Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.
Why is baptism include with the Lord and the faith? Eph 4:5
Jn 3:5 what’s the water for?
Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration! Not salvation proper but the beginning of salvation, union with God and the communion of saints by the grace of Jesus Christ the mediator of the new covenant!
Jn 15:4 Matt 24:13
baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!
Thanks
It also says flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit...
Jesus came by water did He not?
a baby comes after the water burst
The second birth is a Spiritual birth, And that is right there in
EPHESIANS 2 KJV
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;
What does scripture say that grace is? The quickening ....
And what does scripture say one is saved from? being " Dead in sin"...
what were they formerly? DEAD in sin
Salvation is a life, and to be born again, or from above with new life is the kick start for reformation and spiritual growth.
As being born out of a mothers begins a physical life.
And what baptism were they performing?
Did Jesus Baptize with water?
What does scripture say:
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;
What does scripture say that grace is? The quickening ....
And what does scripture say one is saved from? being " Dead
So you are saying they got baptized with no previous teaching?
so that means they would have went down a dirty sinner and came up a wet one. But we know they were given knowledge before they were baptized. Because:
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples),
It’s thru baptism that he quickens us or brings us to the life of grace!
Gal 3:27
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5
Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5
Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2