Works for Salvation: Humility

[donadams]

Jn

We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit, not by water baptism which is merely symbolic of what the Holy Spirit does in spiritually regenerating the person "dead in trespasses and sins."

Romans 8:9-11
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Mark 1:7-8
7 And he was preaching, and saying, "After me One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to stoop down and untie the thong of His sandals.
8 "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Acts 1:4-5
4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me;
5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Acts 2:1-4
1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Were the first born-again believers, the first people permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit and made spiritually alive by him, baptized in water in order to receive the Holy Spirit? No. The "baptism of the Spirit" was an entirely spiritual event, requiring no sprinkling or dunking in water.



In context:

Ezekiel 36:23-28
23 "I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD," declares the Lord GOD, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight.
24 "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land.
25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
28 "You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.

God, through the prophet Ezekiel, is speaking to the Israelite people, not to New Testament Christians, saying that He will make clean His Chosen People, not by water-baptism, but by giving them a new heart and spirit, by putting within them His Spirit who will cause them to walk in all of His statutes. The "sprinkling of clean water" is figurative of the giving of the Holy Spirit; it is not a literal sprinkling of water by which the Jews would be made clean. The physical nature of water-baptism cannot, being entirely a physical thing, attain a spiritual effect. And so, in the quotation above, God spoke, not of the spiritually-cleansing power of water, but of the spiritually-cleansing power of His Spirit.



Matthew 28:16-20
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.
17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Nothing in this passage indicates a spiritually-regenerating effect derived from water-baptism. Baptism is simply symbolic of the Spirit baptizing repentant, believing sinners into Jesus Christ. And it connects saving belief to immediate, concrete, corresponding action.



In context:

John 3:5-7
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Did Jesus say in this passage anything about being "born again in water-baptism"? No. Nothing.

Instead, Jesus pointed out two kinds of birth: "born of flesh" and "born of the Spirit." "Born of flesh" corresponds to "born of water" which is, obviously, the placental "water" accompanying physical birth, and "born of the Spirit" which corresponds to the spiritual "birth" the Holy Spirit effects when he comes to dwell within a person. Jesus, then, is careful in verse 6 not to leave Nicodemus with the impression that water and the Spirit are the means to the "second birth," but distinguishes "born of water" from "born of the Spirit."



Mark 16:15-16
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

What is the emphasis upon in these verses concerning salvation? Baptism or belief? Clearly, it is belief that is the crucial thing, not baptism. As Jesus said, belief precedes baptism, giving rise to it, and it is the absence of belief that condemns, not the absence of baptism. This is not, then, a passage that well-supports a "baptism saves" doctrine. Far from it, actually.



Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!"
41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Was it baptism that Peter indicated was the crucial means of obtaining God's forgiveness of sins? No. Before baptism, Peter spoke of repentance. It was a change of mind (repentance), of belief, about Christ and his atoning work at Calvary, trusting in the truth about him, that was the first and vital feature of salvation, not baptism. Being dunked in water was merely a manifestation of a changed mind concerning the Gospel, symbolic of the "gift of the Holy Spirit" coming to live within those who had believed the Gospel and trusted in Christ as their Savior, baptizing them spiritually into him. Here, again, your baptismal regeneration proof-text fails.

The same holds true for all of the other proof-texts you've offered for the false doctrine of salvation through water baptism. I'm not going to exegete all of them, however, since it should be clear by this point how illegitimately you're handling Scripture in connection with water baptism.

Jn 3:5 what is the water for?

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[Corinth77777]

But it says born again by water AND the spirit

The cos is water and the spirit not the spirit alone!

Anyone righteous is acceptable
Jesus said you cannot enter unless you are born again no matter how righteous you

Yes the Spirit gives birth to what is Spiritual
And the flesh gives birth to what is flesh

the process of bring life into the word throgh water bursting

I agree with you.
So we'll stop talking about baptism....
Catholic baptism is a little complicated, but I do believe the Holy Spirit is received.
He just won't be used unless we want Him to be used...

!

 

[Tenchi]

Jn 3:5 what is the water for?

I've already explained this. Please see my earlier post. Also, none of my observations have yet been addressed by you.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Where is baptism spoken of in this verse? The term "baptism" isn't used at all. How is one's heart (the seat of one's deepest beliefs, desires and decision-making) "sprinkled from an evil conscience"? Literal water cannot touch - let alone cleanse - one's immaterial "heart." The "sprinkling" phrase hearkens back to chapter 9 of Hebrews:

Hebrews 9:19-22
19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you."
21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood.
22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

The high priest, in a ritual of purification, using wool and hyssop dipped in blood mixed with water, would sprinkle various things with the mixture. The high priest's "purifying" actions were a foreshadowing of the purifying act of Jesus, our eternal High Priest, the Ultimate Sacrifice for sin, who shed his blood once for all in cleansing of any who, by faith, trust in him as their Savior and Lord. This is the "sprinkling" to which the writer of Hebrews is referring in Hebrews 10:22, not baptism.

OT Jewish purification rituals were also in view when the writer of Hebrews referred to "bodies washed with pure water." He intended to reinforce the idea that, through the shed blood of Christ, the person under the New Covenant is made clean of the stain of their sin permanently and thus no longer needed the Old Covenant rituals of purification by washing that were always only temporary in their effect.

Hebrews 9:21-26
22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
23 Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Hebrews 10:10-14
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,
13 waiting from that time onward until his enemies be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

When the writer of Hebrews wrote of "bodies washed with pure water" he meant the "water" of Christ's shed blood by which every born-again person has been sanctified and cleansed, their "bodies washed" not by baptism but by their spiritual union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:1-10) which baptism merely signifies.

 

[Corinth77777]

Jn

Jn 3:5 what is the water for?

As I was saying earlier. Nicodemus was Thinking naturally.

When a baby is born it has went through a process
The semen come into the water, etc and when a baby is actually born the water burst before it comes out.
so that which is born of flesh is flesh.

in the Spiritual birth We also get new life in us that comes from above.
So that which is born of Spirit is Spirit
And that's what it means to me to be born of water and of spirit.


therefore you cannot see the kingdom until you have been born from the one who came from God. Born again. regenerated with new life. That is how the law of the spirit of life sets us free from the law of sin and death.

Because now we have a new way of life that is in us.

That is first why you need to believe who He is.
When Jesus ask Peter about who did He think He was. He said the son of the living God. Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to you but my father in Heaven. And it was upon that rock He would build the church.
...................................................................



Just my thoughts here:

Remember the word was made flesh. And also remember Jesus after dying was ressurrected and went back to the father.

Well put that in reverse, when we receive the living, walking word Jesus as the son of God what do we receive? His Spirit. Then when you live by the Spirit the blood cleanses, and if you remain in His teachings it continues to cleanse. And the resurrected power of Christ (the Holy Ghost) You can operate now by the power of the resurrected Son. Like when Paul says its no longer I but Christ who lives in me. He uses the word Christ (the annoited)

Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Note: faith of the Son- obedience to the Father, faith that acts with the right Spirit-attitude)


Galatians 2

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me
Important note- faith in Christ and faith of Christ are different

There is receiving His Spirit, and then having the resurrected power of the Holy ghost.

And this is how I describe: We are given Christ's Spirit that He came in the world with. He was Spirit and man. But when He rose from the dead now the the Holy Ghost. He has all power and back where He was before. Because Jesus said to the father restore the glory while I was yet with you.

And so when we die to the flesh as we live by Spirit, (He has set His seal<<< that came to me)we can operate in the resurrected power of Christ. Where is He said to be at the right hand of the Father. I bet they rule together. And where are we seated? In heavenly places with Christ,? So we rule with Him too.

This also may show some that the primary baptism is being in the presence of God, reality. Quick note: I have been water baptized. However :

Some of my words-
make Followers by Baptizing them in the Holy Trinity, surrounded by them, by teaching them to Do all I have commanded you.


Anyway that's my interpretation from what I have learned, and don't quote the scripture I used because some were off my head.




 

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Whose pure water? What was heart sprinkled with?

 

[Corinth77777]

I judge no one, sorry

We are not enemies friend

You can ask me anything

Yes you did, you told me to be baptized then.
Why did you judge that I was not Bsptized?
Because you believe I had to believe what you believe to be saved.
You judge me from your box of doctrines

But yes I do have to be more thoughtful as Trinchi said in how I come accross. So please forgive me. If I offended you, that is not my purpose...

Delivery is important so pray for me. That God teaches me to wait on Him in how I say things. Thanks Trinchi for the rebuke.

 

[donadams]

Yes the Spirit gives birth to what is Spiritual
And the flesh gives birth to what is flesh

the process of bring life into the word throgh water bursting

!

Jn 3:5 says born again by both water & the spirit!

The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!

Water and the spirit!

First creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(water and the spirit)

Noah:

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…

(Water and the spirit)

Red Sea:

Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

(Water and the spirit)

Josuha

Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

(Water and the spirit)

Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise”

(Water and the Spirit)

Baptism of Jesus

Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

(Water and the spirit)

New creation by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Water and the spirit)

Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!


No one is born again by:

“the spirit alone”!
Or
“Faith alone”!

Water AND the spirit is the biblical mandate!

 

[donadams]

John prepared the way by “water baptism”!
Jesus says “water baptism” Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 apostles say “water baptism” acts 2:38-39 acts 22:16 1 pet 3:20-21 God says “water baptism” ez 36:25-27
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river (water) and they baptized!


No one is saved (objectively) without baptism if it is available, it is the initiation into the new covenant ark of salvation sealed by God thru baptism!

Jn 3:5
cannot enter the kingdom on your own.

2 pet 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

 

[donadams]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration! Not salvation proper but the beginning of salvation, union with God and the communion of saints by the grace of Jesus Christ the mediator of the new covenant!
Jn 15:4 Matt 24:13


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!

 

[Corinth77777]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

Yes because of the question of Nicodemus.

He is already born of water- his physical birth
Now He had to be born of the Spirit.

See:

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

He was only thinking naturally, that's why He did not understand.

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration! Not salvation proper but the beginning of salvation, union with God and the communion of saints by the grace of Jesus Christ the mediator of the new covenant!
Jn 15:4 Matt 24:13


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!

 

[donadams]

I've already explained this. Please see my earlier post. Also, none of my observations have yet been addressed by you.



Where is baptism spoken of in this verse? The term "baptism" isn't used at all. How is one's heart (the seat of one's deepest beliefs, desires and decision-making) "sprinkled from an evil conscience"? Literal water cannot touch - let alone cleanse - one's immaterial "heart." The "sprinkling" phrase hearkens back to chapter 9 of Hebrews:

Hebrews 9:19-22
19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you."
21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood.
22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

The high priest, in a ritual of purification, using wool and hyssop dipped in blood mixed with water, would sprinkle various things with the mixture. The high priest's "purifying" actions were a foreshadowing of the purifying act of Jesus, our eternal High Priest, the Ultimate Sacrifice for sin, who shed his blood once for all in cleansing of any who, by faith, trust in him as their Savior and Lord. This is the "sprinkling" to which the writer of Hebrews is referring in Hebrews 10:22, not baptism.

OT Jewish purification rituals were also in view when the writer of Hebrews referred to "bodies washed with pure water." He intended to reinforce the idea that, through the shed blood of Christ, the person under the New Covenant is made clean of the stain of their sin permanently and thus no longer needed the Old Covenant rituals of purification by washing that were always only temporary in their effect.

Hebrews 9:21-26
22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
23 Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Hebrews 10:10-14
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,
13 waiting from that time onward until his enemies be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

When the writer of Hebrews wrote of "bodies washed with pure water" he meant the "water" of Christ's shed blood by which every born-again person has been sanctified and cleansed, their "bodies washed" not by baptism but by their spiritual union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:1-10) which baptism merely signifies.

Yes it s baptism!

The merits of the blood of Jesus are graces applied to our souls by faith and baptism!

Baptism is the initiation into the new covenant unless you are “born again” by faith and baptism you cannot enter (initiation) the kingdom Jn 3:5


Thanks

 

[Corinth77777]

Yes because of the question of Nicodemus.

He is already born of water- his physical birth
Now He had to be born of the Spirit.

See:

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

He was only thinking naturally, that's why He did not understand.

Do you see that in having a formula for salvation, that you can't see the meaning of other scripture because of that?

And sense you seemed to profess an understanding that every one does not have to know everything correctly before God deals with them or blesses them with life. Then once you drop that formula I think you will see.

Peace and blessing - why were their eyes blinded?

 

[donadams]

As I was saying earlier. Nicodemus was Thinking naturally.

When a baby is born it has went through a process
The semen come into the water, etc and when a baby is actually born the water burst before it comes out.
so that which is born of flesh is flesh.

in the Spiritual birth We also get new life in us that comes from above.
So that which is born of Spirit is Spirit
And that's what it means to me to be born of water and of spirit.


therefore you cannot see the kingdom until you have been born from the one who came from God. Born again. regenerated with new life. That is how the law of the spirit of life sets us free from the law of sin and death.

Because now we have a new way of life that is in us.

That is first why you need to believe who He is.
When Jesus ask Peter about who did He think He was. He said the son of the living God. Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to you but my father in Heaven. And it was upon that rock He would build the church.
...................................................................



Just my thoughts here:

Remember the word was made flesh. And also remember Jesus after dying was ressurrected and went back to the father.

Well put that in reverse, when we receive the living, walking word Jesus as the son of God what do we receive? His Spirit. Then when you live by the Spirit the blood cleanses, and if you remain in His teachings it continues to cleanse. And the resurrected power of Christ (the Holy Ghost) You can operate now by the power of the resurrected Son. Like when Paul says its no longer I but Christ who lives in me. He uses the word Christ (the annoited)

Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Note: faith of the Son- obedience to the Father, faith that acts with the right Spirit-attitude)


Galatians 2

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me
Important note- faith in Christ and faith of Christ are different

There is receiving His Spirit, and then having the resurrected power of the Holy ghost.

And this is how I describe: We are given Christ's Spirit that He came in the world with. He was Spirit and man. But when He rose from the dead now the the Holy Ghost. He has all power and back where He was before. Because Jesus said to the father restore the glory while I was yet with you.

And so when we die to the flesh as we live by Spirit, (He has set His seal<<< that came to me)we can operate in the resurrected power of Christ. Where is He said to be at the right hand of the Father. I bet they rule together. And where are we seated? In heavenly places with Christ,? So we rule with Him too.

This also may show some that the primary baptism is being in the presence of God, reality. Quick note: I have been water baptized. However :

Some of my words-
make Followers by Baptizing them in the Holy Trinity, surrounded by them, by teaching them to Do all I have commanded you.


Anyway that's my interpretation from what I have learned, and don't quote the scripture I used because some were off my head.




 

Whose pure water? What was heart sprinkled with?

Pure water: fresh not salt water

Jn 3:5 says born of water born again of the spirit?

Jn 3:5 born again of water and the spirit

Not spirit alone
Cos by both water and the spirit

Vs 22 the went to Jerusalem to preach “accept Christ as your savior by faith alone?

Vs 22 no they went to the river (water) and they baptized

Thanks

 

[Tenchi]

Yes it s baptism!

The merits of the blood of Jesus are graces applied to our souls by faith and baptism!

Baptism is the initiation into the new covenant unless you are “born again” by faith and baptism you cannot enter (initiation) the kingdom Jn 3:5


Thanks

Well, I showed you from the context of Hebrews 10:22 what the verse actually means. Merely declaring your view, as though it is self-evident, doesn't at all counter or refute what I showed from the text of Hebrews. Nowhere in chapter 9 or chapter 10 of Hebrews does what you've written above appear. Nowhere does the writer of Hebrews ever say, "The merits of the blood of Jesus are graces applied to our souls by faith and baptism." As I showed from the text of Hebrews 9, not from some external religious doctrine, what is in view in Hebrews 10:22 is the cleansing of sin by the shed blood of Jesus, not by baptism.

And, again, I've already showed why John 3:5 doesn't say what you assert that it does. Merely repeating your assertion - especially after a counter-view has been offered from the context of John 3:5 - doesn't do anything to refute mine or establish yours. All you're doing is issuing dogma, not an actual exegetical treatment of John 3:5.

 

[donadams]

Yes you did, you told me to be baptized then.
Why did you judge that I was not Bsptized?
Because you believe I had to believe what you believe to be saved.
You judge me from your box of doctrines

But yes I do have to be more thoughtful as Trinchi said in how I come accross. So please forgive me. If I offended you, that is not my purpose...

Delivery is important so pray for me. That God teaches me to wait on Him in how I say things. Thanks Trinchi for the rebuke.

It’s all good!

Just remember we are to practice the virtues our savior!

 

[donadams]

Do you see that in having a formula for salvation, that you can't see the meaning of other scripture because of that?

And sense you seemed to profess an understanding that every one does not have to know everything correctly before God deals with them or blesses them with life. Then once you drop that formula I think you will see.

Peace and blessing - why were their eyes blinded?

Do you believe justification by faith alone?

If yes

Are you justified the first moment you believe?

 

[donadams]

Well, I showed you from the context of Hebrews 10:22 what the verse actually means. Merely declaring your view, as though it is self-evident, doesn't at all counter or refute what I showed from the text of Hebrews. Nowhere in chapter 9 or chapter 10 of Hebrews does what you've written above appear. Nowhere does the writer of Hebrews ever say, "The merits of the blood of Jesus are graces applied to our souls by faith and baptism." As I showed from the text of Hebrews 9, not from some external religious doctrine, what is in view in Hebrews 10:22 is the cleansing of sin by the shed blood of Jesus, not by baptism.

If not baptism then how is the grace applied to our souls?

And, again, I've already showed why John 3:5 doesn't say what you assert that it does. Merely repeating your assertion - especially after a counter-view has been offered from the context of John 3:5 - doesn't do anything to refute mine or establish yours. All you're doing is issuing dogma, not an actual exegetical treatment of John 3:5.

It does say born again of both (water) and and and the (spirit) not the spirit alone
Vs 22 says the went to the river (water) baptized

 

[Corinth77777]

Jn 3:5 says born again by both water & the spirit!

The Pharisees arrogantly thought they were right with God because of their legalism. They were not aware of their self-imposed blindness toward God. Jesus said that they were exposed to the light of His revelation but rejected it. This was a deplorable condition—to know the truth and reject it.Aug 5, 2017
https://versebyversecommentary.com › ...

Recall I told you its not your church's doctrine that you are to trust in. It's Jesus.

You are trusting in that doctrine for salvation. Not in Jesus.
That becomes something you have to trust in to be saved. Which then makes trust in something other than Christ your salvation.

So if you don't trust " it" you are not saved. Compare to if you don't trust in Christ you are not saved.

Christ is the foundation, not your church's doctrine.

Trust in Him alone. Believe that He is the savior.

You see legalism is something you must do to be saved.
and you are a legalist based on that definition. Because you must believe in your doctrine to be saved. Therefore it makes belief in your doctrine something you must do.

Its not belief in your doctrine that is the faith one is saved through. It's belief in who Jesus is (<<< just came to me)
Omgosh simply amazing - son of the living God
God is the faith

God reveals God- that is the faith
God's revelation of Himself through His Son

So feeling in the puzzle

For Grace are you saved though God and God is not of yourself but the Gift of God
 
God is God
I am that I am

The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!

Water and the spirit!

First creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(water and the spirit)

Noah:

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…

(Water and the spirit)

Red Sea:

Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

(Water and the spirit)

Josuha

Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

(Water and the spirit)

Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise”

(Water and the Spirit)

Baptism of Jesus

Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

(Water and the spirit)

New creation by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Water and the spirit)

Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!


No one is born again by:

“the spirit alone”!
Or
“Faith alone”!

Water AND the spirit is the biblical mandate!

 

[Corinth77777]

Pure water: fresh not salt water

Jn 3:5 says born of water born again of the spirit?

Jn 3:5 born again of water and the spirit

Not spirit alone
Cos by both water and the spirit

Vs 22 the went to Jerusalem to preach “accept Christ as your savior by faith alone?

Vs 22 no they went to the river (water) and they baptized

Thanks

Every scripture about water is not directly referring to your doctrine: of the only way you can be saved is through water baptism, and therefore your belief: if you are not water baptized you are not saved. And there lies your boasting. And in Christ there is no boasting. Boasting shows you are a part of your salvation- and based on scriptures love does not boast and there is no boasting in Christ.

 

[Tenchi]

If not baptism then how is the grace applied to our souls?

In the Person of the Holy Spirit. Read Titus 3:3-8, and Romans 8:9-16.

It does say born again of both (water) and and and the (spirit) not the spirit alone

And as I showed you, Jesus is very careful to explain exactly what he meant:

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh [water]; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [Holy Spirit].

Jesus is employing here a very common Jewish literary device called a parallelism. The water and spirit of verse 5 are in a parallel with the flesh and Spirit of verse 6, the latter verse delineating the meaning of the former.

 

[donadams]

The Pharisees arrogantly thought they were right with God because of their legalism. They were not aware of their self-imposed blindness toward God. Jesus said that they were exposed to the light of His revelation but rejected it. This was a deplorable condition—to know the truth and reject it.Aug 5, 2017
https://versebyversecommentary.com › ...

Recall I told you its not your church's doctrine that you are to trust in. It's Jesus.

You are trusting in that doctrine for salvation. Not in Jesus.
That becomes something you have to trust in to be saved. Which then makes trust in something other than Christ your salvation.

So if you don't trust " it" you are not saved. Compare to if you don't trust in Christ you are not saved.

Christ is the foundation, not your church's doctrine.

Trust in Him alone. Believe that He is the savior.

You see legalism is something you must do to be saved.
and you are a legalist based on that definition. Because you must believe in your doctrine to be saved. Therefore it makes belief in your doctrine something you must do.

Its not belief in your doctrine that is the faith one is saved through. It's belief in who Jesus is (<<< just came to me)
Omgosh simply amazing - son of the living God
God is the faith

God reveals God- that is the faith
God's revelation of Himself through His Son

So feeling in the puzzle

For Grace are you saved though God and God is not of yourself but the Gift of God
 
God is God
I am that I am

1st its not my church, it’s Jesus’s church Matt 16:18-19 Jn 10:16

Only Jesus has authority to establish the church all others are the tradition of men.

2nd Christ gave the fullness of revelation Jude 1:3 one faith eph 4:5 Thee faith or doctrine or dogma is the truths revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church Matt 28:19

3rd Christ is the way the truth and the life Jn 14:6 (see below Christ and His church are one)

4th yes only one savior, but I don’t see legalism to be saved, we don’t believe we are saved (see below)

5th so it’s not faith alone?

Thanks