Works for Salvation: Humility

[donadams]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

 

[donadams]

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union (by faith and baptism / water and the spirit) with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ! Must be in Christ born again by faith and baptism, Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 united to God and His communion of saints thru Christ the mediator and the grace of God!


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[donadams]

Every scripture about water is not directly referring to your doctrine: of the only way you can be saved is through water baptism, and therefore your belief: if you are not water baptized you are not saved. And there lies your boasting. And in Christ there is no boasting. Boasting shows you are a part of your salvation- and based on scriptures love does not boast and there is no boasting in Christ.

No boast
Christ instituted the sacraments for the salvation of all men! Matt 28:19
Sacrament is a sacred oath or promise from God the fruit of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, all the graces He obtained for us
Acts 2:38-39 this promise
From ez 36:25-27

Christ commanded baptism Matt 28:19
Christ requires baptism Mk 1:16

Christ says born again as the initiation into the new covenant to enter the kingdom Jn 3:5
Thanks

 

[donadams]

In the Person of the Holy Spirit. Read Titus 3:3-8, and Romans 8:9-16.



And as I showed you, Jesus is very careful to explain exactly what he meant:

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh [water]; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [Holy Spirit].

Jesus is employing here a very common Jewish literary device called a parallelism. The water and spirit of verse 5 are in a parallel with the flesh and Spirit of verse 6, the latter verse delineating the meaning of the former.

But you are teaching “the spirit alone”?

Where is the water?

 

[donadams]

Faith alone excludes the spirit!

Faith alone excludes the love of God!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

 

[donadams]

The Pharisees arrogantly thought they were right with God because of their legalism. They were not aware of their self-imposed blindness toward God. Jesus said that they were exposed to the light of His revelation but rejected it. This was a deplorable condition—to know the truth and reject it.Aug 5, 2017
https://versebyversecommentary.com › ...

Recall I told you its not your church's doctrine that you are to trust in. It's Jesus.

You are trusting in that doctrine for salvation. Not in Jesus.
That becomes something you have to trust in to be saved. Which then makes trust in something other than Christ your salvation.

So if you don't trust " it" you are not saved. Compare to if you don't trust in Christ you are not saved.

Christ is the foundation, not your church's doctrine.

Trust in Him alone. Believe that He is the savior.

You see legalism is something you must do to be saved.
and you are a legalist based on that definition. Because you must believe in your doctrine to be saved. Therefore it makes belief in your doctrine something you must do.

Its not belief in your doctrine that is the faith one is saved through. It's belief in who Jesus is (<<< just came to me)
Omgosh simply amazing - son of the living God
God is the faith

God reveals God- that is the faith
God's revelation of Himself through His Son

So feeling in the puzzle

For Grace are you saved though God and God is not of yourself but the Gift of God
 
God is God
I am that I am

You sound as if you can read scripture for yourself,
and and make your own faith or doctrine?

One faith eph 4:5
Deposit of faith from Christ to the apostolic church Jude 1:3
The revelation of Jesus
Verbal (tradition)
and epistle (scripture)

Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

 

[Corinth77777]

Do you believe justification by faith alone?

I believe one is quicken to life by the faith of Jesus, and it is his faith alone, which is God that saves.





God is the beginning and end of our faith. Because God is God.

If yes

Are you justified the first moment you believe?

I think righteousness is imputed as well as imparted

I did read this but maybe it will gave some scriptures on it.

9c93ab72-b0cb-4706-96bf-9f5be09e507a

www.canonglenn.com

You sound as if you can read scripture for yourself,
and and make your own faith or doctrine?

Sorry you feel that way.
I said it was imputed and imparted. I DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE YOU THE SITE SO YOU COULD SEE SCRIPTURES FOR IT.
I COULD HAVE LET YOU LOOK IT UP. JUST AFTER YOU CALL ME A FRIEND- DID U MEAN IT?

One faith eph 4:5
Deposit of faith from Christ to the apostolic church Jude 1:3
The revelation of Jesus
Verbal (tradition)
and epistle (scripture)

Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

I

 

[donadams]

I believe one is quicken to life by the faith of Jesus, and it is his faith alone, which is God that saves.

It is God who saves and God who baptizes ez 36:25-27 I (God) shall sprinkle you with water and a new heart and the spirit

God is the beginning and end of our faith. Because God is God.

I think righteousness is imputed as well as imparted

I did read this but maybe it will gave some scriptures on it.

9c93ab72-b0cb-4706-96bf-9f5be09e507a

www.canonglenn.com

Sorry you feel that way.
I said it was imputed and imparted. I DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE YOU THE SITE SO YOU COULD SEE SCRIPTURES FOR IT.
I COULD HAVE LET YOU LOOK IT UP. JUST AFTER YOU CALL ME A FRIEND- DID U MEAN IT?

I believe one is quicken to life by the faith of Jesus, and it is his faith alone, which is God that saves.





God is the beginning and end of our faith. Because God is God.

I think righteousness is imputed as well as imparted

I did read this but maybe it will gave some scriptures on it.

9c93ab72-b0cb-4706-96bf-9f5be09e507a

www.canonglenn.com

Sorry you feel that way.
I said it was imputed and imparted. I DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE YOU THE SITE SO YOU COULD SEE SCRIPTURES FOR IT.
I COULD HAVE LET YOU LOOK IT UP. JUST AFTER YOU CALL ME A FRIEND- DID U MEAN IT?

I

Then you do not believe Jesus Christ and his revelation! Mk 16:16

 

[donadams]

I believe one is quicken to life by the faith of Jesus, and it is his faith alone, which is God that saves.





God is the beginning and end of our faith. Because God is God.

I think righteousness is imputed as well as imparted

I did read this but maybe it will gave some scriptures on it.

9c93ab72-b0cb-4706-96bf-9f5be09e507a

www.canonglenn.com

Sorry you feel that way.
I said it was imputed and imparted. I DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE YOU THE SITE SO YOU COULD SEE SCRIPTURES FOR IT.
I COULD HAVE LET YOU LOOK IT UP. JUST AFTER YOU CALL ME A FRIEND- DID U MEAN IT?

I

It is God who saves ez 36:25-27

 

[Tenchi]

But you are teaching “the spirit alone”?

Where is the water?

I'm simply pointing out what the Bible teaches.

Where is the water in, or for, what?

 

[donadams]

I'm simply pointing out what the Bible teaches.

Where is the water in, or for, what?

Ez 36:25-27
Jn 3:5
Acts 8:36
Acts 22:16
Eph 4:5
Titus 3:5
Water and the spirit not spirit alone

 

[Tenchi]

Ez 36:25-27
Jn 3:5
Acts 8:36
Acts 22:16
Eph 4:5
Titus 3:5
Water and the spirit not spirit alone

I already dealt with these in earlier posts, showing that they don't teach that water baptism is necessary to salvation. Please re-read those posts.

 

[Corinth77777]

It is God who saves ez 36:25-27

Amen we agree God saves

 

[donadams]

Amen we agree God saves

But grace s administered by the apostolic church

Jn 3:5
cannot enter the kingdom on your own.

2 pet 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

But this Lord s justification not salvation

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union (by faith and baptism / water and the spirit) with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ! Must be in Christ born again by faith and baptism, Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 united to God and His communion of saints thru Christ the mediator and the grace of God!


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I’ve long admired some aspects of Catholicism…
But I don’t think much of it is supported by scripture.


God cultivates humility in us as part of His ongoing work of sanctification. Abide in me and ye shall bear much fruit..
Outside of Jesus Christ we’re cut off and cast off for destruction.

 

[Corinth77777]

But grace s administered by the apostolic church

Jn 3:5
cannot enter the kingdom on your own.

2 pet 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

But this Lord s justification not salvation

No

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union (by faith and baptism / water and the spirit) with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ! Must be in Christ born again by faith and baptism, Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 united to God and His communion of saints thru Christ the mediator and the grace of God!

I don’t have a problem with true doctrine!
It's when you believe you must be water baptize to be saved.
For if you believe that then you also believe if a person is not baptized in water they are not saved.

Give proof that if you are not water baptized you are not saved.
Type out the words of the scripture that say that.

What I know is
It's impossible to please God without faith

So question:
If a person walks by the Spirit even if they have not been water baptized are you saying that Jesus's blood does not cleanse them from all unrighteousness?

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

sorry but you will have to type out the actual scriptures so we can read them. Because I see you have a habit of not seeing many in context.

And why? Because you are still stuck in your doctrine.
that " if you are not water baptized you are not saved"
Therefore you read into some scripture what they are not saying. Like having a puzzle piece and trying to force it where it does not fit.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3 kjv

You can't help to see scriptures from your box of doctrine.
faith and "baptism" as in water
Mark 16:16 New International Version 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
This does not say who ever is not baptized is mot saved but "the one who believes not."
For a person can get baptized in water and still not believe.


John 3:5 KJV: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This is not talking about water baptism. As already shown to you. Read the context.
Acts 2:38 King James Version 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Did Peter say that was the only way to receive the Holy Ghost? CAN ONE WHO CALLS UP ON THE NAME OF THE LORD ALSO BE SAVED?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
So here the washing of regeneration is the New birth Born with New life from above. The second comes by faith towards God. And Yes to believe God you have the faith of Jesus. The belief that acts. And in many cases it may have been water baptism. But it's the faith of Jesus that saves.

But what scripture says is this: Hebrews 11:6 King James Version 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

What is doesn't say is without water baptism its impossible to please Him.
You don't think God knows that men are confused with water Baptism? God does not have to wait until we understand everything to bless someone, for His kingdom, without all I could say about it, is where what God wants done is done.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Hebrews 6

So this is how one was to learn, and even how we who weren't there in their time come to understand the basic teachings. There I believe God used what was of their culture to teach them. But it's true, how can one move on if they have yet to understand the basic teachings.
Again, the primary baptism is to be immersed in reality God's presence. The so called : great commission .
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1Peter 3
 Amen Thank you God
Its coming through the storms of life:
What I mean by that is As Noah was saved through the water He is quicken, renewed, or regenerated. Another words one has to die to live. God has got your back. As Jesus "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"
Therefore obedience to God is key, the faith that works through love. The faith of Christ.


Water Baptism is a way to teach "the principles of the doctrine of Christ"

So again Salvation is Life - to know the only true God and Jesus Christ.....
Life in His presence
The Answer of a clear conscience before God is
Literally dying to the flesh it comes by the intentions of the heart. Therefore water baptism as said earlier a committment to a particular teaching. The true doctrine of Christ. In order to live one must die. And from that others eat you, you are the fruit in Christ; attached to the vine, co- laborers with Christ.

Thank you God for that!

YOUR DOCTRINE RESULTS IN LEGALISM WHICH MAY KILL "WHICH IS IF YOU ARE NOT BAPTIZED YOU ARE NOT SAVED"

wondering - I Explain some here of what I was going to respond to but never took the time.

Sanctification:

Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[donadams]

I’ve long admired some aspects of Catholicism…
But I don’t think much of it is supported by scripture.


God cultivates humility in us as part of His ongoing work of sanctification. Abide in me and ye shall bear much fruit..
Outside of Jesus Christ we’re cut off and cast off for destruction.

Amen! So how do we get in Christ?

 

[donadams]

I’ve long admired some aspects of Catholicism…
But I don’t think much of it is supported by scripture.


God cultivates humility in us as part of His ongoing work of sanctification. Abide in me and ye shall bear much fruit..
Outside of Jesus Christ we’re cut off and cast off for destruction.

Hope this helps

Sacred tradition:

(Note: teaching authority of Christ in His apostolic church, not traditions, habits, customs etc.)

Sacred Tradition / apostolic tradition

Every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and were commanded to teach to all men!

The truths revealed by Christ and commanded by Christ to be taught by the apostles to all men!

Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!

Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!

Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5

The Authority of the apostolic church is binds the conscience of every Christian to believe the Christian faith or the truths revealed by Christ and found in the creeds, didache, dogma’s and Decree’s of apostolic councils.

The apostles are commanded by Christ to teach tradition.

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Word (Verbal)
and
Epistle (scripture)
2 thes 2:15



We are commanded by Christ to obey tradition. Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.

Obedience of faith! Rom 16:26

And scripture supports tradition.

Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Only Christ has authority to establish the one true church and to send the apostles to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation, all sects are full of errors and the tradition of men devoid of grace, truth, and authority.


One mediator:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

On the level of justice Christ is the only mediator, obtaining atonement, grace, mercy, and salvation.

Anyone in the communion of saints can pray and intercede for those in need, and the apostles mediate between Christ and the church, the communion of saints. Matt 28:20

And the angels minister to those who will inherit salvation. Heb 1:14


Verses supporting Sacred tradition

Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15
(Partial)

Tradition is divine revelation from Christ
Both verbal and scripture
Both are tradition!
2 thes 2:15
Tradition / revelation
Either by word (verbal) or epistle (scripture)
So one cannot have more importance or be superior to the other

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Tradition
Verbal or scripture


Revelation ended with the ascension of Christ. Jn 1:3

Only one faith (revelation) eph 4:5

Jn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Jn 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Sola scriptura says:
Christ and most of the apostles wrote nothing, so they had No authority, no teaching!
Only those who wrote had authority!

Even if there was no scripture we would still have the truths revealed by God with Christ in His church with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit!

The apostolic church does not require scripture to know the truth, they were instructed by Christ (God) the truth itself (Jn 14:6) in person for three years, the church existed before the New Testament (not cannon til 381) the church exercised Her mission, power, and authority without scripture, to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19


Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

 

[donadams]

No

I don’t have a problem with true doctrine!
It's when you believe you must be water baptize to be saved.
For if you believe that then you also believe if a person is not baptized in water they are not saved.

Give proof that if you are not water baptized you are not saved.
Type out the words of the scripture that say that.

What I know is
It's impossible to please God without faith

So question:
If a person walks by the Spirit even if they have not been water baptized are you saying that Jesus's blood does not cleanse them from all unrighteousness?




sorry but you will have to type out the actual scriptures so we can read them. Because I see you have a habit of not seeing many in context.

And why? Because you are still stuck in your doctrine.
that " if you are not water baptized you are not saved"
Therefore you read into some scripture what they are not saying. Like having a puzzle piece and trying to force it where it does not fit.

You can't help to see scriptures from your box of doctrine.
faith and "baptism" as in water
Mark 16:16 New International Version 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
This does not say who ever is not baptized is mot saved but "the one who believes not."
For a person can get baptized in water and still not believe.


John 3:5 KJV: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This is not talking about water baptism. As already shown to you. Read the context.
Acts 2:38 King James Version 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Did Peter say that was the only way to receive the Holy Ghost? CAN ONE WHO CALLS UP ON THE NAME OF THE LORD ALSO BE SAVED?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
So here the washing of regeneration is the New birth Born with New life from above. The second comes by faith towards God. And Yes to believe God you have the faith of Jesus. The belief that acts. And in many cases it may have been water baptism. But it's the faith of Jesus that saves.

But what scripture says is this: Hebrews 11:6 King James Version 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

What is doesn't say is without water baptism its impossible to please Him.
You don't think God knows that men are confused with water Baptism? God does not have to wait until we understand everything to bless someone, for His kingdom, without all I could say about it, is where what God wants done is done.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Hebrews 6

So this is how one was to learn, and even how we who weren't there in their time come to understand the basic teachings. There I believe God used what was of their culture to teach them. But it's true, how can one move on if they have yet to understand the basic teachings.
Again, the primary baptism is to be immersed in reality God's presence. The so called : great commission .
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1Peter 3
 Amen Thank you God
Its coming through the storms of life:
What I mean by that is As Noah was saved through the water He is quicken, renewed, or regenerated. Another words one has to die to live. God has got your back. As Jesus "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"
Therefore obedience to God is key, the faith that works through love. The faith of Christ.


Water Baptism is a way to teach "the principles of the doctrine of Christ"

So again Salvation is Life - to know the only true God and Jesus Christ.....
Life in His presence
The Answer of a clear conscience before God is
Literally dying to the flesh it comes by the intentions of the heart. Therefore water baptism as said earlier a committment to a particular teaching. The true doctrine of Christ. In order to live one must die. And from that others eat you, you are the fruit in Christ; attached to the vine, co- laborers with Christ.

Thank you God for that!

YOUR DOCTRINE RESULTS IN LEGALISM WHICH MAY KILL "WHICH IS IF YOU ARE NOT BAPTIZED YOU ARE NOT SAVED"

wondering - I Explain some here of what I was going to respond to but never took the time.

Then you don’t believe Jesus is “the way”? Jn 14:6 cos there’s no context only two words in scripture

 

[donadams]

We don’t believe any of the solas

Faith alone is never taught by the apostolic church!

Sacred tradition:

(Note: teaching authority of Christ in His apostolic church, not traditions, habits, customs etc.)

Sacred Tradition / apostolic tradition

Every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and were commanded to teach to all men!

The truths revealed by Christ and commanded by Christ to be taught by the apostles to all men!

Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!

Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!

Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5

The Authority of the apostolic church is binds the conscience of every Christian to believe the Christian faith or the truths revealed by Christ and found in the creeds, didache, dogma’s and Decree’s of apostolic councils.

The apostles are commanded by Christ to teach tradition.

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Word (Verbal)
and
Epistle (scripture)
2 thes 2:15



We are commanded by Christ to obey tradition. Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.

Obedience of faith! Rom 16:26

And scripture supports tradition.

Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Only Christ has authority to establish the one true church and to send the apostles to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation, all sects are full of errors and the tradition of men devoid of grace, truth, and authority.


One mediator:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

On the level of justice Christ is the only mediator, obtaining atonement, grace, mercy, and salvation.

Anyone in the communion of saints can pray and intercede for those in need, and the apostles mediate between Christ and the church, the communion of saints. Matt 28:20

And the angels minister to those who will inherit salvation. Heb 1:14


Verses supporting Sacred tradition

Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15
(Partial)

Tradition is divine revelation from Christ
Both verbal and scripture
Both are tradition!
2 thes 2:15
Tradition / revelation
Either by word (verbal) or epistle (scripture)
So one cannot have more importance or be superior to the other

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Tradition
Verbal or scripture


Revelation ended with the ascension of Christ. Jn 1:3

Only one faith (revelation) eph 4:5

Jn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Jn 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Sola scriptura says:
Christ and most of the apostles wrote nothing, so they had No authority, no teaching!
Only those who wrote had authority!

Even if there was no scripture we would still have the truths revealed by God with Christ in His church with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit!

The apostolic church does not require scripture to know the truth, they were instructed by Christ (God) the truth itself (Jn 14:6) in person for three years, the church existed before the New Testament (not cannon til 381) the church exercised Her mission, power, and authority without scripture, to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19


Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15