Works for Salvation: Humility

[donadams]

TRUST JESUS

WHO SAID THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS BABYLON?

I am catholic and you said I was in Babylon, natural choice conclusion

Jesus does not exist in a vacuum!

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Must be in the new covenant church by faith and baptism
1 cor 13:12 1 pet 3:21

Thanks

 

[Corinth77777]

I am catholic and you said I was in Babylon, natural choice conclusion

I don't go by your denomination, but by what you, yourself believe to be true. You believe if you are not baptized in water you are not saved.

Therfore you need to come out of babylon. You can't see, you have knowledge but it's not in accords with truth. And you have been given knowledge that you yourself reject.

Jesus does not exist in a vacuum!

By your own words you put Him in one. Especially when you reject revelation by not reading your own scriptures in context of the passage and of many here who have rightly interpreted them. YOUR rejection of truth is shown after you, yourself parrot scriptures through the lens of your formulated doctrine that: "if one is not water baptized they are not saved." You have never written out a full sentence in the bible that proves your formula. Nor can you.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Yes, those that are called out of captivity and are free to serve God by the Spirit, and not by the letter. The letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life.
But you are still in a system. System of what You must do to be saved.
That you have not recognized that usually the reason people are moved to get baptized is because they have received the Holy Spirit. [(Sprit of God )A.J. ] Therefore as James says in so many words faith without works is dead. Not works to be saved, but works because you have been saved by receiving the Holy Spirit.

From one passage I know I don't think one can act in faith unless they come alive, by having God reveal Jesus to them. We see one acts in faith usually after receiving the Spirit, having been given revelation from God who Jesus is.


That is why the Holy Ghost ( The power of the resurrected Christ-my words) of our Lord, our God, the Holy Ghost, marked or sealed those who were born of God( the Spirit) It shows to the world that prophecy is coming true. That is what Peter talked about when He said those men are not drunk with wine. And as it is written, the kingdom comes with Power.







As God revealed His son through His voice and the dove to John that He may be revealed to Israel.

So also does the Holy Ghost reveal us as sons who have received the Holy Spirit by the resurrected power of Jesus -my words (trying this on)

See to only hear of John's Baptism was to say you did not yet believe on Christ. Who He is. And my inkling would be they preached Christ by His death, resurrection, who seen him, and where He now sits. And so I asked you, have you believed who Jesus is?
For this is foundational of being quickened together with Christ. A dead person does not move toward God until He is first made alive. (my thought)

I do believe as I write this out that there is a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and the Holy GHOST falling upon you.(not sure yet but trying it on to ses if scriptures in context validates this)

Jesus was already the son of God, and God confirmed Him at His baptism.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Now God has not revealed to me the meaning, but the heavens opening up could mean The kingdom of the Heavens is available for those who do the will of the father, or that Jesus was going to be the intermediator between earth and heaven, Father God and Man
When the heavens opened up to me it shows Jesus had /has access to the power from on high
Then Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon him. COULD THIS MEAN THE ANNOITING FOR A PARTICULAR SERVICE? IDK as Priest???

Must be in the new covenant church by faith and baptism

You say all this, but have you even believed on Christ?
Have you received the Holy Spirit sense you believed?

Should our act of faith be willingly? Or Is our will forced upon us?
Or do people act in faith because they believe something to be true. That God will deliver them when they live by His word.

1 cor 13:12 1 pet 3:21

Why should I look these up? You type or copy these scriptures and people give you the interpretation and you reject it. You do not humble yourself and open your mind to what can free you, which is true knowledge.
99.999 percent of the time you are reading them through your unproved formula. Which is why you interpret wrong.

Thanks

You are welcome, but do you mean that, when you don't read anything posted to you that could help you untangle the web you been weaved in.

Some of this is for discussion where you see that symbol. wondering

Mr. G Lee

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't go by your denomination, but by what you, yourself believe to be true. You believe if you are not baptized in water you are not saved.

Therfore you need to come out of babylon. You can't see, you have knowledge but it's not in accords with truth. And you have been given knowledge that you yourself reject.

By your own words you put Him in one. Especially when you reject revelation by not reading your own scriptures in context of the passage and of many here who have rightly interpreted them. YOUR rejection of truth is shown after you, yourself parrot scriptures through the lens of your formulated doctrine that: "if one is not water baptized they are not saved." You have never written out a full sentence in the bible that proves your formula. Nor can you.

I must admit, as I always do, that I don't quite understand how or why baptism saves us.
But I know that Jesus said to do this. He said to teach and baptize. Does anyone here really understand why other than the theology we could post from scripture?

I know that the early church also baptized infants so that they could have this grace and be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, one church Father said that they should not be denied. This is a different topic and deserves its own thread.

The NT clearly shows that baptism is necessary:
Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Repentance AND baptism are necessary for salvation.

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience,


There are just too many verses to list.
Somehow baptism is necessary.

Yes, those that are called out of captivity and are free to serve God by the Spirit, and not by the letter. The letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life.
But you are still in a system. System of what You must do to be saved.

I agree with this.
It's one of the first things I learned.
Trying to follow a lot of rules dulls the spirit.
Loving God and doing what we do for Him, livens the spirit.
What some catholics and protestants don't understand is that some commands were made by God and some were made by the church. It's important to know the difference.

That you have not recognized that usually the reason people are moved to get baptized is because they have received the Holy Spirit. [(Sprit of God )A.J. ] Therefore as James says in so many words faith without works is dead. Not works to be saved, but works because you have been saved by receiving the Holy Spirit.

Agreed.

From one passage I know I don't think one can act in faith unless they come alive, by having God reveal Jesus to them. We see one acts in faith usually after receiving the Spirit, having been given revelation from God who Jesus is.


That is why the Holy Ghost ( The power of the resurrected Christ-my words) of our Lord, our God, the Holy Ghost, marked or sealed those who were born of God( the Spirit) It shows to the world that prophecy is coming true. That is what Peter talked about when He said those men are not drunk with wine. And as it is written, the kingdom comes with Power.

Being sealed, in the early church, meant being baptized.
The seal of baptism.
today its meaning has changed.
(I think the early church was correct).
God does not change.

As God revealed His son through His voice and the dove to John that He may be revealed to Israel.

So also does the Holy Ghost reveal us as sons who have received the Holy Spirit by the resurrected power of Jesus -my words (trying this on)

Answered above.

See to only hear of John's Baptism was to say you did not yet believe on Christ. Who He is. And my inkling would be they preached Christ by His death, resurrection, who seen him, and where He now sits. And so I asked you, have you believed who Jesus is?
For this is foundational of being quickened together with Christ. A dead person does not move toward God until He is first made alive. (my thought)

Oh goodness. You're sounding reformed here.
You said a person has to be made alive first and then moves toward God?
Don't you believe it's the other way around?

Also, John's baptism was for the forgiveness of sins.
Jesus' baptism forgives sins but also includes the fire of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

I do believe as I write this out that there is a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and the Holy GHOST falling upon you.(not sure yet but trying it on to ses if scriptures in context validates this)

The term used to be HOLY GHOST.
Now we say HOLY SPIRIT.
It's the same.

Jesus was already the son of God, and God confirmed Him at His baptism.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Now God has not revealed to me the meaning, but the heavens opening up could mean The kingdom of the Heavens is available for those who do the will of the father, or that Jesus was going to be the intermediator between earth and heaven, Father God and Man
When the heavens opened up to me it shows Jesus had /has access to the power from on high
Then Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon him. COULD THIS MEAN THE ANNOITING FOR A PARTICULAR SERVICE? IDK as Priest???

Agreed. It was God Father confirming that Jesus was sent by Him and that this was the beginning of Jesus' ministry.

Also, Jesus was a Priest, He was a Prophet and He was a King.

I believe this is the only time in the NT when Father, Son and Holy Spirit are together at one time.

It must also be said that Jesus had no sin and did not need baptizing. But He wanted to fulfill all righteousness...what is right before God.

If Jesus felt He should be baptized....all the more should we.

You say all this, but have you even believed on Christ?
Have you received the Holy Spirit sense you believed?

We're just talking here but be careful, we're not allowed to question the faith of another member.
Anyway, only God can do that.
Catholics believe the Holy Spirit is received at baptism.
donadams is catholic.

Should our act of faith be willingly? Or Is our will forced upon us?
Or do people act in faith because they believe something to be true. That God will deliver them when they live by His word.

God forces nothing on us.
If we don't love Him willingly, the love is of no value.

Why should I look these up? You type or copy these scriptures and people give you the interpretation and you reject it. You do not humble yourself and open your mind to what can free you, which is true knowledge.
99.999 percent of the time you are reading them through your unproved formula. Which is why you interpret wrong.

You are welcome, but do you mean that, when you don't read anything posted to you that could help you untangle the web you been weaved in.

Some of this is for discussion where you see that symbol. wondering

Mr. G Lee

Done.

 

[donadams]

I don't go by your denomination, but by what you, yourself believe to be true. You believe if you are not baptized in water you are not saved.

Therfore you need to come out of babylon. You can't see, you have knowledge but it's not in accords with truth. And you have been given knowledge that you yourself reject.

By your own words you put Him in one. Especially when you reject revelation by not reading your own scriptures in context of the passage and of many here who have rightly interpreted them. YOUR rejection of truth is shown after you, yourself parrot scriptures through the lens of your formulated doctrine that: "if one is not water baptized they are not saved." You have never written out a full sentence in the bible that proves your formula. Nor can you.

Yes, those that are called out of captivity and are free to serve God by the Spirit, and not by the letter. The letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life.
But you are still in a system. System of what You must do to be saved.
That you have not recognized that usually the reason people are moved to get baptized is because they have received the Holy Spirit. [(Sprit of God )A.J. ] Therefore as James says in so many words faith without works is dead. Not works to be saved, but works because you have been saved by receiving the Holy Spirit.

From one passage I know I don't think one can act in faith unless they come alive, by having God reveal Jesus to them. We see one acts in faith usually after receiving the Spirit, having been given revelation from God who Jesus is.


That is why the Holy Ghost ( The power of the resurrected Christ-my words) of our Lord, our God, the Holy Ghost, marked or sealed those who were born of God( the Spirit) It shows to the world that prophecy is coming true. That is what Peter talked about when He said those men are not drunk with wine. And as it is written, the kingdom comes with Power.







As God revealed His son through His voice and the dove to John that He may be revealed to Israel.

So also does the Holy Ghost reveal us as sons who have received the Holy Spirit by the resurrected power of Jesus -my words (trying this on)

See to only hear of John's Baptism was to say you did not yet believe on Christ. Who He is. And my inkling would be they preached Christ by His death, resurrection, who seen him, and where He now sits. And so I asked you, have you believed who Jesus is?
For this is foundational of being quickened together with Christ. A dead person does not move toward God until He is first made alive. (my thought)

I do believe as I write this out that there is a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and the Holy GHOST falling upon you.(not sure yet but trying it on to ses if scriptures in context validates this)

Jesus was already the son of God, and God confirmed Him at His baptism.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Now God has not revealed to me the meaning, but the heavens opening up could mean The kingdom of the Heavens is available for those who do the will of the father, or that Jesus was going to be the intermediator between earth and heaven, Father God and Man
When the heavens opened up to me it shows Jesus had /has access to the power from on high
Then Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon him. COULD THIS MEAN THE ANNOITING FOR A PARTICULAR SERVICE? IDK as Priest???


You say all this, but have you even believed on Christ?
Have you received the Holy Spirit sense you believed?

Should our act of faith be willingly? Or Is our will forced upon us?
Or do people act in faith because they believe something to be true. That God will deliver them when they live by His word.





Why should I look these up? You type or copy these scriptures and people give you the interpretation and you reject it. You do not humble yourself and open your mind to what can free you, which is true knowledge.
99.999 percent of the time you are reading them through your unproved formula. Which is why you interpret wrong.

You are welcome, but do you mean that, when you don't read anything posted to you that could help you untangle the web you been weaved in.

Some of this is for discussion where you see that symbol. wondering

Mr. G Lee

Can a man be saved without a priest?

 

[Corinth77777]

Can a man be saved without a priest?

Please reply to all that was said

 

[donadams]

Please reply to all that was said

Meet with your approval?

Most sweet Jesus, Redeemer of the human race, look down upon us humbly prostrate before Thy altar. We are Thine, and Thine we wish to be; but, to be more surely united with Thee, behold each one of us freely consecrates himself today to Thy Most Sacred Heart. Many indeed have never known Thee; many too, despising Thy precepts, have rejected Thee. Have mercy on them all, most merciful Jesus, and draw them to Thy Sacred Heart.

Be Thou King, O Lord, not only of the faithful who have never forsaken Thee, but also of the prodigal children who have abandoned Thee; grant that they may quickly return to their Father's house lest they die of wretchedness and hunger.

Be Thou King of those who are deceived by erroneous opinions, or whom discord keeps aloof; call them back to the harbor of truth and unity of faith, so that soon there may be but one flock and one Shepherd.

Be Thou King of all those who are still involved in the darkness of idolatry or of Islamism; refuse not to draw them all into the light and kingdom of God. Turn Thine eyes of mercy toward the children of that race, once Thy chosen people: of old they called down upon themselves the Blood of the Savior; may it now descend upon them a laver of redemption and of life.

Grant, O Lord, to Thy Church assurance of freedom and immunity from harm; give peace and order to all nations, and make the earth resound from pole to pole with one cry: Praise to the Divine Heart that wrought our salvation; to It be glory and Honor forever. Amen

 

[Randy]

Please reply to all that was said

It's his trick question because Jesus was declared a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

 

[donadams]

It's his trick question because Jesus was declared a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

I take off my humble hat to you!

 

[Corinth77777]

Meet with your approval?

Most sweet Jesus, Redeemer of the human race, look down upon us humbly prostrate before Thy altar. We are Thine, and Thine we wish to be; but, to be more surely united with Thee, behold each one of us freely consecrates himself today to Thy Most Sacred Heart. Many indeed have never known Thee; many too, despising Thy precepts, have rejected Thee. Have mercy on them all, most merciful Jesus, and draw them to Thy Sacred Heart.

Be Thou King, O Lord, not only of the faithful who have never forsaken Thee, but also of the prodigal children who have abandoned Thee; grant that they may quickly return to their Father's house lest they die of wretchedness and hunger.

Be Thou King of those who are deceived by erroneous opinions, or whom discord keeps aloof; call them back to the harbor of truth and unity of faith, so that soon there may be but one flock and one Shepherd.

Be Thou King of all those who are still involved in the darkness of idolatry or of Islamism; refuse not to draw them all into the light and kingdom of God. Turn Thine eyes of mercy toward the children of that race, once Thy chosen people: of old they called down upon themselves the Blood of the Savior; may it now descend upon them a laver of redemption and of life.

Grant, O Lord, to Thy Church assurance of freedom and immunity from harm; give peace and order to all nations, and make the earth resound from pole to pole with one cry: Praise to the Divine Heart that wrought our salvation; to It be glory and Honor forever. Amen

Still wont reply..its like asking a child if He has done his homework? And His answer is What's for dinner.
So basically you know all the answers and are here only to tell people water baptism saves them.

 

[Corinth77777]

It's his trick question because Jesus was declared a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

Well Randy She or He has not ever responded to what He/she puts out. So what more is there really to say.

Faith toward God is elementry. And I myself would teach water Baptism and what 4 things it means to me. But never will I say if you are not water Baptized God can't save you. Nor if you are water baptized that you have been saved.

People follow for different reasons, And there is a video where I'm confident that this preacher was Baptized, and I am sure He even Baptized. And He dies and meets God, and God tells Him He never Knew Him. And He list all the things He did for Him. But God said He did them for Himself.

My Spouse sent it to me I may post it. He was caught up in a different formula, but they both amount to the same thing.
Legalism.

 

[Corinth77777]

Can a man be saved without a priest?

As 1 Timothy 2:5 states, “there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

 

[Corinth77777]

.

 

[GodsGrace]

Still wont reply..its like asking a child if He has done his homework? And His answer is What's for dinner.
So basically you know all the answers and are here only to tell people water baptism saves them.

Jesus said to be baptized.
It is for the forgiveness of sin.
Why do you think the NT teaches this?

 

[donadams]

Still wont reply..its like asking a child if He has done his homework? And His answer is What's for dinner.
So basically you know all the answers and are here only to tell people water baptism saves them.

Scripture says it 1 pet 3:21

 

[donadams]

As 1 Timothy 2:5 states, “there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

I’ll take it as a yes you can be saved without a priest but that would be incorrect!

You cannot be saved without a priest cos the savior is a priest heb 7:17

I asked to illustrate just how wrong we can be!

 

[GodsGrace]

I’ll take it as a yes you can be saved without a priest but that would be incorrect!

You cannot be saved without a priest cos the savior is a priest heb 7:17

I asked to illustrate just how wrong we can be!

Jesus was a Priest.
He offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice.

 

[donadams]

As 1 Timothy 2:5 states, “there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

Then how can sola scriptura ever work?

A blind man or illiterate man needs a mediator!

Jesus was a Priest.
He offered HIMSELF as the sacrifice.

priest and victim! Amen!

 

[Randy]

I take off my humble hat to you!

I guess the question is can that priest save you apart from water baptism?
If you believe and are baptized is shown for salvation. I believe in that protocol.
Yet it is also shown. The common theme in both is faith in Jesus.
Romans 10
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.
... for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Paul is speaking of the prophecy given through Joel.
And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

 

[Corinth77777]

Then how can sola scriptura ever work?

A blind man or illiterate man needs a mediator!

priest and victim! Amen!

You lost me

 

[electedbyHim]

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


William MacDonald on meaning of be baptized - At first glance, this verse seems to teach salvation by baptism, and many people insist that this is precisely what it does mean. Such an interpretation is impossible for the following reasons:

1. In dozens of NT passages, salvation is said to be by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:12; 3:16, 36; 6:47; Acts 16:31; Ro 10:9). No verse or two could conceivably contradict such overwhelming testimony.
2. The thief on the cross had the assurance of salvation apart from baptism (Lk 23:43).
3. The Savior is not stated to have baptized anyone, a strange omission if baptism is essential to salvation.
4. The Apostle Paul was thankful that he baptized only a few of the Corinthians—a strange cause for thankfulness if baptism has saving merit (1 Cor. 1:14–16).(Borrow Believer's Bible Commentary)

Warren Wiersbe points out that "the people in the home of Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized (Acts 10:44-48)." (Bible Exposition Commentary)

Paul Apple - Account of Philip preaching Christ (His crucifixion and resurrection) to the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:26-40; Response -- “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God” – let’s move on to take the next step of water baptism. Paul evangelizing the Philippian jailer – Acts 16:30-31 “What must I do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household” – baptism immediately follows. (The Spread of the Gospel)

Stott: What the gospel demands is a radical turn from sin to Christ, which takes the form inwardly of repentance and faith, and outwardly of baptism. For submission to baptism in the name of the Christ we have formerly repudiated gives public evidence of penitent faith in him. (The Message of Acts)

Ryrie has an interesting note on baptism in the name of Jesus Christ - Since baptism signifies association (ED: BAPTISM = IDENTIFICATION WITH) with the message, group, or person involved in authorizing it, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ meant for these people a severing of their ties with Judaism and an association with the messages of Jesus and His people. Baptism was the line of demarcation. Even today for a Jew it is not his profession of Christianity nor his attendance at Christian services nor his acceptance of the New Testament, but his submission to water baptism that definitely and finally excludes him from the Jewish community and marks him off as a Christian. This explains the insistence on the ordinance. (Acts of the Apostles)

Be baptized for...the forgiveness of your sins - I am fully aware that some use Peter's words to justify their belief that baptism is necessary for salvation. Obviously this is a huge topic and this commentary will avoid going into detail except for a few comments. The related resources below go into more detail. Suffice it to say I strongly refute the teaching that unless one is baptized in water they will not be saved. Such a baptism is clearly a work and Paul is crystal clear in Ephesians 2 writing

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works (INCLUDING BAPTISM), so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works (WORKS ARE THE EXPECTED FRUIT OF GENUINE SALVATION, BUT NOT THE ROOT OF THAT SALVATION!), which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

As alluded to in these notes, the teaching that one must be baptized to be saved counters multiple other NT passages that clearly teach salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Anything added to this is damnable heresy (IMO)! In support of this basic refutation John MacArthur writes "such teaching (THAT BAPTISM IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION) violates the important hermeneutical principle known as analogia Scriptura (the analogy of Scripture). That principle states that no passage, when correctly interpreted, will teach something contradictory to the rest of Scripture. And the rest of Scripture unmistakably teaches that salvation is solely by faith (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 16:31; Rom. 3:21-30; 4:5; 10:9-10; Phil. 3:9; Gal. 2:16)."

To quote from Gotquestions.org - Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Baptism does not save from sin but from a bad conscience. In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter clearly taught that baptism was not a ceremonial act of physical purification, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. Baptism is the symbol of what has already occurred in the heart and life of one who has trusted Christ as Savior (Romans 6:3-5; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12). Baptism is an important step of obedience that every Christian should take. Baptism cannot be a requirement for salvation. To make it such is an attack on the sufficiency of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ