Works for Salvation: Humility

[donadams]

I guess the question is can that priest save you apart from water baptism?
If you believe and are baptized is shown for salvation. I believe in that protocol.
Yet it is also shown. The common theme in both is faith in Jesus.
Romans 10
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.
... for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Paul is speaking of the prophecy given through Joel.
And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Baptism is part of what we believe

 

[donadams]

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


William MacDonald on meaning of be baptized - At first glance, this verse seems to teach salvation by baptism, and many people insist that this is precisely what it does mean. Such an interpretation is impossible for the following reasons:

1. In dozens of NT passages, salvation is said to be by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:12; 3:16, 36; 6:47; Acts 16:31; Ro 10:9). No verse or two could conceivably contradict such overwhelming testimony.
2. The thief on the cross had the assurance of salvation apart from baptism (Lk 23:43).
3. The Savior is not stated to have baptized anyone, a strange omission if baptism is essential to salvation.
4. The Apostle Paul was thankful that he baptized only a few of the Corinthians—a strange cause for thankfulness if baptism has saving merit (1 Cor. 1:14–16).(Borrow Believer's Bible Commentary)

Warren Wiersbe points out that "the people in the home of Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized (Acts 10:44-48)." (Bible Exposition Commentary)

Paul Apple - Account of Philip preaching Christ (His crucifixion and resurrection) to the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:26-40; Response -- “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God” – let’s move on to take the next step of water baptism. Paul evangelizing the Philippian jailer – Acts 16:30-31 “What must I do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household” – baptism immediately follows. (The Spread of the Gospel)

Stott: What the gospel demands is a radical turn from sin to Christ, which takes the form inwardly of repentance and faith, and outwardly of baptism. For submission to baptism in the name of the Christ we have formerly repudiated gives public evidence of penitent faith in him. (The Message of Acts)

Ryrie has an interesting note on baptism in the name of Jesus Christ - Since baptism signifies association (ED: BAPTISM = IDENTIFICATION WITH) with the message, group, or person involved in authorizing it, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ meant for these people a severing of their ties with Judaism and an association with the messages of Jesus and His people. Baptism was the line of demarcation. Even today for a Jew it is not his profession of Christianity nor his attendance at Christian services nor his acceptance of the New Testament, but his submission to water baptism that definitely and finally excludes him from the Jewish community and marks him off as a Christian. This explains the insistence on the ordinance. (Acts of the Apostles)

Be baptized for...the forgiveness of your sins - I am fully aware that some use Peter's words to justify their belief that baptism is necessary for salvation. Obviously this is a huge topic and this commentary will avoid going into detail except for a few comments. The related resources below go into more detail. Suffice it to say I strongly refute the teaching that unless one is baptized in water they will not be saved. Such a baptism is clearly a work and Paul is crystal clear in Ephesians 2 writing

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works (INCLUDING BAPTISM), so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works (WORKS ARE THE EXPECTED FRUIT OF GENUINE SALVATION, BUT NOT THE ROOT OF THAT SALVATION!), which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

As alluded to in these notes, the teaching that one must be baptized to be saved counters multiple other NT passages that clearly teach salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Anything added to this is damnable heresy (IMO)! In support of this basic refutation John MacArthur writes "such teaching (THAT BAPTISM IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION) violates the important hermeneutical principle known as analogia Scriptura (the analogy of Scripture). That principle states that no passage, when correctly interpreted, will teach something contradictory to the rest of Scripture. And the rest of Scripture unmistakably teaches that salvation is solely by faith (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 16:31; Rom. 3:21-30; 4:5; 10:9-10; Phil. 3:9; Gal. 2:16)."

To quote from Gotquestions.org - Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Baptism does not save from sin but from a bad conscience. In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter clearly taught that baptism was not a ceremonial act of physical purification, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. Baptism is the symbol of what has already occurred in the heart and life of one who has trusted Christ as Savior (Romans 6:3-5; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12). Baptism is an important step of obedience that every Christian should take. Baptism cannot be a requirement for salvation. To make it such is an attack on the sufficiency of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ

Faith yes but baptism is part of what we believe

The thief heb 9:17
The other thief asked Jesus to save him, was he saved?

All four in the parable of the sower had faith, why only one unto the bearing fruit of salvation?

 

[donadams]

You lost me?

It’s not a verse, only a partial verse, just two words “the way” Jesus is the way but there can be no context for it!

If a verse is not context how can two words be context?

Yet all Christians believe Jesus is “the way”! Jn 14:6

N

 

[electedbyHim]

Faith yes but baptism is part of what we believe

The thief heb 9:17
The other thief asked Jesus to save him, was he saved?

All four in the parable of the sower had faith, why only one unto the bearing fruit of salvation?

donadams​

The thief heb 9:17
The other thief asked Jesus to save him, was he saved?

Nothing in there about the thief.

donadams​

The other thief asked Jesus to save him, was he saved?

The first criminal was not saved, the second one was saved, without Baptism.

Luke 23:42-43 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

 

[donadams]

Nothing in there about the thief.


The first criminal was not saved, the second one was saved, without Baptism.

Luke 23:42-43 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

The first thief asked to be saved?

Neither apply to baptism cos it’s not yet required heb 9:17

 

[electedbyHim]

The first thief asked to be saved?

Neither apply to baptism cos it’s not yet required heb 9:17

Baptism is not required for salvation.

Others have also confirmed that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

But you keep believing what you think the Bible says.

 

[donadams]

Baptism is not required for salvation.

Others have also confirmed that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

But you keep believing what you think the Bible says.

Baptism is required for salvation but not until the death of Christ, Pentecost and the proclamation of the public gospel

 

[electedbyHim]

Baptism is required for salvation but not until the death of Christ, Pentecost and the proclamation of the public gospel

That is your interpretation of the Bible.

Pentecostals/charismaniacs also believe that false doctrine.

 

[donadams]

That is your interpretation of the Bible.

Pentecostals/charismaniacs also believe that false doctrine.

So does christvsnd scripture Mk 16:16

it’s not a Bible study, it’s a covenant with an outward sign
So can you enter the covenant on your own effort?

We’re you saved the first moment you believed

 

[electedbyHim]

So does christvsnd scripture Mk 16:16

it’s not a Bible study, it’s a covenant with an outward sign
So can you enter the covenant on your own effort?

We’re you saved the first moment you believed

I was regenerated, only then could I believe. The Lord chose me, I did not choose Him.

 

[Corinth77777]

Jesus said to be baptized.
It is for the forgiveness of sin.
Why do you think the NT teaches this?

Respectfully, I spent a lot of time in detail writing on this.
Please refer back to earlier post where I may have went into more details if you wish.


One, we are coming off from under and Old stytem to being Govern by the new.

These are Elementary teachings repentence from dead works- Faith toward God

Two, it's a ceremony of initiation into the body of believers under one Spirit.

Three, It reveals God's Spirit in many through miricles of the Holy Spirit coming upon us that fulfills prophecy. And Usually when you see miracles we know the kingdom is coming or it shows prophecy being fullfilled. It shows to the next generations coming what took place. Where one can't necessarily see spiritual things or know they have taken place outward signs represent that, what is inward.

Four, It contrast the Baptisms (ritual washings) that was under the law with the Baptism that saves us now. 1 peter 3.
What I found the contrast to be is the Holy Spirit coming upon those that believed Jesus and received the Spirit of God.

Five, It helps to teach through the initiation by showing symbolically how we are to present our bodies dead, and alive to Christ.

It's always God who delivers, and He can deliver us in any act of faith.
As we know Jesus delivered many, casting out deamons, the woman with the issue of blood, lame etc when they exercised faith.
It shows the other members (Jews)that all are accepted as brothers having received the Spirit in the same way they had, through faith. Because the Holy Spirit gave them the same sign.

If no one seeks after God, from my view of that scripture, no one acts until they are born of the Spirit. To me our born attribute of belief, is not the same as being given the gift of the faith of Christ. But that is the place where God meets us, in our belief towards His son.

I saw where you said I was reformed, yet I don't know what they believe. Just speaking from the scriptures I know about. And there is slways a chance I could be wrong but that's my understanding from the scriptures I know.

As this one: being dead in trespasses and sin that we were quickened together with Christ. "By grace are we saved through faith", whose faith? But this is not of ourselves but a gift of God, not by ,(my words added>) any works of righteousness in our own abilty to earn or merit salvation that we have done, but a gift from God that we receive what God has revealed to us about His son when we believed; trusted in our hearts who His son is, Jesus the Son of the living God.

Upon this rock I will build my church.
Peter received knowledge from God who Jesus is. Peter is a piece of the rock. The receiving of Jesus with intent to follow is how we are born with new Life.

But recall we are to evaluate ourselves to see if we are in the faith. Do you know that Jesus Christ is in you, otherwise we be reprobates, or failed the test.

So my outlook on that passage is you do not know what you have until you walk in it. As make your call and elect sure.
Another words faith that saves is a faith that acts. So my definition of the faith that saves is walking in what you say you believe.
This is the faith whereby Jesus went to the cross for us.
He could have believed but belief without His action would not have redeemed us.

Therefore when I was water baptized I heard what you heard,
But it's when I truly walked in faith God forgave my sins and I knew it. So does that mean I should go get rebaptized?
No I am not convicted in my heart because I understand.
I had peace and joy which is part of what scripture says the kingdom is.
I did not get that because I was water baptized. But because I exercised faith later. Although it could have bern given at my Water Baptism if I had the knowledge I know now.
Also, I have peace now, just need to continue in His Love.

People need to know what baptism means today, otherwise if their sins have yet to be forgiven. They may go in the water dirty and come out dirty.

But here's the primary baptism that when one comes out of the water they are in the presence of the Holy trinity, true Reality of Life.Those who are present would have already been in the presence of God, and the one being baptized was surrounded by a community of believers.

If you go back and read How the red sea baptism was God was there. They were baptized into Moses? Why? because they followed his lead. Who was the rock, what did the clouds and lightning signify? When they came through they had a new start and rejoiced.

Therefore, however a person gets to life Im glad they got there.
And if someone came to believe through God in me, I'd tell them about what water baptism means to me. They would then have to decide first from their faith they receiced to make their commitment.

But one thing I must note is they asked Peter and the others what should "they do."

This one is different-


And Jesus's in the so called "Great Commission " in my view of scriptures said this I believe in.Matthew 28, and in Mark



16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.



So how were they to baptize (or surrounded in the presence of God >my words)? Answer by teaching them to observe all the things I commanded you

So read Gal 2:16
And you will find they believed in Jesus in order to be justified by the faith of Jesus.
Meaning they were redeem back to God in order that they could have fellowship with Him by living according to the Spirt they received.

So it's about Life.... Jesus in 1 Peter 3 was quickened.
Eternal life is to know the Father and son that Jesus sent.
An intimate relationship.

The answer to my clear conscience is Life, and being in Christ living by His word, is what puts me in the presence of the one who is the source of all life.

For God is not the God of the dead but the living.

 

[Randy]

Baptism is part of what we believe

Thats OK. My own parents had me baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit

But the point is the method of salvation. Not by works of the law but grace through faith.

The message of faith they are proclaiming to all nations.
The deliverer will come out of Zion, (and everyone), religious Jew or Pagan gentiles, rich or poor, male or female, will be saved by calling,(not by works of the law), on Him. Grace through faith.

One might make a case that baptism is a form of outward confession as well and I think that it is. But it doesn't take away what Paul defined the calling on the Lord is for us.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

I also believe those who believe in their heart and call on the one they believe in ,though not being baptized in water, will be saved because the Lord is not bound with anything other than love and mercy. The core of His being.

 

[donadams]

I was regenerated, only then could I believe. The Lord chose me, I did not choose Him.

Yes God’s grace must proceed everything and every salutary deed

Faith first then regeneration acts 8:36/38

 

[electedbyHim]

Yes God’s grace must proceed everything and every salutary deed

Faith first then regeneration acts 8:36/38

Right, but baptism does not save, that is an outside work.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God-- not the result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[Corinth77777]

Baptism is required for salvation but not until the death of Christ, Pentecost and the proclamation of the public gospell

Faith yes but baptism is part of what we believe

The thief heb 9:17
The other thief asked Jesus to save him, was he saved?

All four in the parable of the sower had faith, why only one unto the bearing fruit of salvation?

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Corinth77777]

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If one has not yet believed who Jesus is by God.
Then we can probably say that one has not received the Spirit.

 

[Corinth77777]

If one has not yet believed who Jesus is by God.
Then we can probably say that one has not received the Spirit.

Jesus would baptized with the holy Spirit ....
And I believe when the Spirit fell it confirmed that you have received the Holy Spirit. Now if one parrots -be baptized and they do not have life then how many times are you going to get dunked in water..
So the question we need to asked ourselves is have we come alive in reality, not something you think to be true, but know?

So no matter how many times you parrot that if you did not receive life one will never know if they are saved.

You can parrot it 100,000,000 times and if you have not received life then ???????

 

[Corinth77777]

Yes God’s grace must proceed everything and every salutary deed

Faith first then regeneration acts 8:36/38

I’ll take it as a yes you can be saved without a priest but that would be incorrect!

You cannot be saved without a priest cos the savior is a priest heb 7:17

I asked to illustrate just how wrong we can be!

To say everyone that is water Baptize is saved too, would be incorrect. Especially if they are trusting in Water and not the God that can sanctify the water.

 

[donadams]

Right, but baptism does not save, that is an outside work.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God-- not the result of works, so that no one may boast.

But it is the means of grace and salvation Mk 16:16 1 pet 3:20

 

[donadams]

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!
No union with God and His saints thru Christ the mediator!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone! Jn 3:5

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Matt 28:19