You can be ONCE SAVED and ALWAYS SAVED!

[FrustratedForumer]

Don't take it from me, take it from God's word---Read II Pet. 1.

By the way, God doesn't "run and hide" either!

Taking scripture out of context and relying on it without the rest of the bible is quite the illogical fallacy.

or so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Sounds like always to me.

Is it possible for someone to continue in their walk, to persevere, from the time of their commitment until they "get to heaven"? Yes. Will everyone who makes a commitment to Christ as their Lord and Savior end up persevering to the end? No.

So therefore the following is a lie?

“I have already told you, and you don’t believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father’s name. 26 But you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else.[d] No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

 

[Saltwater]

Hello FrustratedForumer,

re your comment so the following is a lie?

Here's a repeat of an earlier reply to a post from TruthSeeker2012 in response to comments made about John10:26-29.

The verse 28 promises are for those who are following Christ.

Question - can a believer cease to follow Christ?

Yes - here is one example where Christians lose their salvation by following false teaching:
2Tim2:15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.

Note v18 where the false teaching overthrows the faith of some. By grace we are saved thru faith so if your faith is overthrown you have fallen from grace (Gal5:4 another example).

For you to continue to hold to your belief that a Christian can never fall away you will have to explain how you interpret v18 above.

Looking forward to your explanation of v18.

Note that v28 is only commenting on what impact third parties can have on a person's salvation. Other verses in the NT such as the one mentioned above deal with the ways by which a Christian may by their own beliefs eg. 1Tim4:1 and/or behaviour lose their salvation.

 

[Stormcrow]

is it really IMPOSSIBLE for me to be once saved and always saved?

I really don't like trying to address negative questions or declarations, so let's rephrase this in the affirmative:

"Is it really possible to be 'once saved and always saved?'" The obvious answer is yes, of course it is!

But then we must also address the question (again, phrased in the affirmative), "is it equally possible for someone to be 'once saved and lose their salvation?'"

I believe that answer - likewise - is yes. Most of the epistles written in the NT describe apostates and backsliders who had turned their back on the faith to do harm to those still in it.

So this begs the question: were such people ever really saved in the first place?

I think Christ's explanation of the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:18-23) suggests at least some were.

Others, as John points out in his letter (I John 2:18-19), were not.

Personally, I think this whole debate about eternal security is silly. The only salvation any of us can truly be responsible for is our own, and it's absurd on its face to try to judge the heart of another in relation to God.

Those who are saved and have no intention of walking away from the faith are eternally secure. As to anyone else's salvation? It's between them and God and none of my business unless they ask.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

...What will happen to a Christian who does not continue in the faith?

In reading these verses I see that v22 will be fulfilled in our lives if we remain grounded & steadfast in the faith.That is we meet the 'IF"condition mentioned in v23.

A person is saved by FAITH not by WORKS!

Once a person is sincerely born again, they will continue to trust in Jesus 24/7 and as long as they trust in the merits of Christ they cannot be lost!!!

If a person doesn't have faith in Jesus, they never did in the first place.

Now please answer my question.. is it impossible for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

...Will everyone who makes a commitment to Christ as their Lord and Savior end up persevering to the end? No.

1. Please show me in Bible where a sincerely born again Christian sealed with the Holy Spirit will renounce Jesus at a later date and reject Jesus.

2. Did Jesus lie in John 10:28 when He said they shall never perish and nobody can snatch them out of His hands?

3. Is 1 John 5:13 a deceptive verse which says we can KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE NOW? Yes or No?

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Here's a high five and pat on the back! Preach it! AMEN

Thank you for your comments and support.

I find it interesting..those people who tell me that "Once Saved Always Saved" is a lie from the Devil will always refuse to answer my question when I ask them, "Is it impossible for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED?

They refuse to answer that question and run and hide from it and sidestep it. Surprise surprise

 

[FrustratedForumer]

They have no answer. Fallacies only go so far.

 

[Webb]

You did not answer! I did not run! I did not hide! The answere is as told you before in II Pet. 1.

 

[francisdesales]

Thank you for your comments and support.

I find it interesting..those people who tell me that "Once Saved Always Saved" is a lie from the Devil will always refuse to answer my question when I ask them, "Is it impossible for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED?

They refuse to answer that question and run and hide from it and sidestep it. Surprise surprise

Your question has been answered. It is no.

However, it is impossible for one to know whether THEY are "once saved, always saved", since no one can no whether they will continue in their walk of faith. Thus, the question is a non sequitar and pointless in discussion.

Jesus says as much in Luke's version of the parable of the sower and the seed. He says:

Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. Luke 8:13.

Do you think that those who "believed for awhile" thought that they would later fall away? The entire point of "once saved always saved" is ridiculous, since it works only theoretically, not practically. Those who CLAIM they are "OSAS" and later fall away brings about derision from the "OSAS Community", that "they never were saved...! What good was the claim, then??? Worthless.

In addition, Peter makes it crystal clear that people HAVE lost their "salvation"...

If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 2 Peter 2:20-21

It is obvious that Peter is speaking of formerly saved people, since only the saved can "escape the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ". They become entangled AGAIN. Making them WORSE OFF then if they NEVER were saved - meaning they WERE saved once...

There are a number of other indications that the writers of Scriptures realized that Christians could fall away from the Gospel message after 'being saved'. This is clearly the reason why they constantly exhort readers to PERSEVERE...

Regards

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Your question has been answered. It is no....

So you now openly and honestly admit that the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED DOCTRINE is NOT a LIE FROM THE DEVIL? Yes or No?

And do you also now admit that it's POSSIBLE FOR A CHRISTIAN TO BE ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

 

[jasoncran]

my bible says that if the christian wont live right and doesnt produce fruit somehow God will still let him over that sinner who never knew god and live in the flesh.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

my bible says that if the christian wont live right and doesnt produce fruit somehow God will still let him over that sinner who never knew god and live in the flesh.

What do you mean when you say, "God will still let him over that sinner who never knew god and live in the flesh?"

And do you believe a Christian who has sincere faith in Jesus cannot be saved by faith and grace alone, if they do not live a very "right life"? And define "right life". What exactly would a person do for you to classify them as having lived a "right life"? How many hours per week must they "live right" to be saved? 100% and be sinless? 90%? 75%?

And did you know that the FRUIT IS LOVE, Gal 5:22. Notice carefully, the FRUIT is singular, not plural, so the FRUIT of the Holy Spirit IS LOVE.. Now ask yourself.. does a born again Christian have LOVE in their heart for God and others? The answer is YES, so they indeed produce FRUIT. If a person doesn't have sincere love for God and others, then they were never born again in the first place.

Did the thief on the Cross "live right" to be saved? Or was the thief saved by a DIFFERENT GOSPEL than you and I have to be saved by? The thiefs last works and actions were STEALING, yet he still made it into heaven by FAITH ALONE! Are we saved by the same gospel the thief was? Yes or No?

 

[jasoncran]

sigh,

so you dont believe in once saved always saved? too. that if a christian backslides and turns from going to church, reading the bible he is lost?

 

[Saltwater]

A person is saved by FAITH not by WORKS!

Once a person is sincerely born again, they will continue to trust in Jesus 24/7 and as long as they trust in the merits of Christ they cannot be lost!!!

If a person doesn't have faith in Jesus, they never did in the first place.

Now please answer my question.. is it impossible for a Christian to be ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

Oh my goodness!!! How many times must different readers here answer your question? Francidesales, Webb & myself have answered your question in clear simple easy to understand English!!

Oh just a reminder, I am still waiting for you to explain your interpretation of v18 from my earlier post re 2Tim2:15-18 which as it reads in plain simple easy to understand Englisg refutes your claim re OSAS. Come on, have a go & give us your reply!!

You keep wanting answers to your question while not answering anyone elses!

 

[jasoncran]

he wants us to buy his that if one is saved by faith that somehow one is cured of all sinful lusts and desires. that we are perfected to the point that we can walk on water.

when its the process of(if one is gonna preach and teach eternal security) then at least explain or know what that entails.

upon repentance we are saved from the penalty of sin. we are being saved from the power of sin and in the future we will be saved from the physical death.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Oh my goodness!!! How many times must different readers here answer your question? Francidesales, Webb & myself have answered your question in clear simple easy to understand English!!

Oh just a reminder, I am still waiting for you to explain your interpretation of v18 from my earlier post re 2Tim2:15-18 which as it reads in plain simple easy to understand Englisg refutes your claim re OSAS. Come on, have a go & give us your reply!!

You keep wanting answers to your question while not answering anyone elses!

I already answered your question. Read your messages. Post #34 is a good start. So read my replies.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

...upon repentance...

1. Define "repentance".

2. Have you perfectly repented? Yes or No?

3. Are you lost until you can perfectly repent of all your sins? Yes or No?

 

[jasoncran]

1. Define "repentance".

2. Have you perfectly repented? Yes or No?

3. Are you lost until you can perfectly repent of all your sins? Yes or No?

sigh, you dont get it do you. when one repents at the cross does he have repent for that sin of today?if i get saved then sin tommorow then i dont have to repent or avoid it?

you say that you dont say that osas is a license to sin but yet i have failed to see preach what actual doctrinal eternal security is. i know it i have listened to many a pastors say on it.

your doctrine says that upon repentance one is justified once and for all. but your types deny the idea of free will . if we are "locked in" then we have no will or power to reject christ and yet there are examples of christians lost

i believe that a person can sincerly repent and the next day walk away from christ. how its said clearly how it happens. you cant just ignore where and when it stated.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

sigh, you dont get it do you..

Instead of insulting me, why don't you focus on the topic at hand and answer my questions honestly and maturely. Thank you

1. Define "repentance".

2. Have you perfectly repented? Yes or No?

3. Are you lost until you can perfectly repent of all your sins? Yes or No?

4. Do you still admit that a Christian can be ONCE SAVED AND ALWAYS SAVED? Yes or No?

 

[jasoncran]

i find equality insulting when you presume those that disagree with your position and post the bible verse in context to support and have superior arguments are pushers of works based salvation.

one can vomit the very thing that you repented off and picke that back up. that means one can return to that sin nature.

repentance of the sort you say doenst guarantee we wont walk away. we can and do that. we can walk away from christ. he doesnt make us serve him or do his will.

we let him work in us.