chessman
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Eternal Life
- Thread starter netchaplain
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Ok so you now agree that some will depart from the faith.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1
Good. Case Closed.
OSAS
JLB
The faith!
Not some "other" faith.
The faith in Christ that Paul wrote and taught about.
The faith in Christ that Paul was sent by Christ to preach.
Words of Christ in red.
I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:17-18
JLB
ezrider
Member
How mighty kind of you, letting me just going on believing what I believe. But that wasn't the point of my question. Maybe you just didn't comprehend my actual question. I do not understand where this idea of what I will call renewed innocence comes from. I understand forgiveness, I understand Grace; what I don't understand is the where the notion of our innocence comes from. This is the question that I asked, and you jumped up and said "yuppers."
So it was my misunderstanding by your "yuppers" statement that you could actually explain your belief to me. It was my misunderstanding by your "yuppers" statement that you might have been kind enough to point to a scripture reference or two that might describe our innocence. But you could do neither. Instead you grew hostile, so if I am left to just assuming, then I might assume that this might be a doctrine you believe in, but can not defend or describe. I might assume the question drives to deep into your heart, and so you resist answering it.
Can you simply explain how we are made innocent again? Or when you said "yuppers" am I to assume that you might be one of those who stands up and says amen when they don't even understand what what said?
Once one has tasted the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, how can they then be made innocent again? When the knowledge of the Law of sin and death has been consumed, you may find forgiveness and Grace, but where do we again find our innocence? If you are made once again innocent, what becomes of the knowledge of the law, the fruit of good and evil that you have eaten. Can you then say I have not eaten it?
dirtfarmer
Member
dirtfarmer here
Those that hold the doctrine of loss of salvation, did your children make a commitment to be your children? or were they your children by birth? If by birth, what did they have to do with their birth.
Romans 8:16 " The Spirit itself beareth witness to our spirit, that we are the children of God."
Does God withdraw his Spirit from us when we commit sins, or is our fellowship broken but not our relationship? We first have to have a vertical relationship before we can have a horizontal fellowship.
Those that hold the doctrine of loss of salvation, did your children make a commitment to be your children? or were they your children by birth? If by birth, what did they have to do with their birth.
Romans 8:16 " The Spirit itself beareth witness to our spirit, that we are the children of God."
Does God withdraw his Spirit from us when we commit sins, or is our fellowship broken but not our relationship? We first have to have a vertical relationship before we can have a horizontal fellowship.
chessman
Member
Faith In Christ is not mentioned by Paul in 1 Tim 4:1-4. A faith in everything created by God [marraige, food, etc,] being good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thankfulness is mentioned in this passage as the faith that demons will deceive some into departing from.
It is people that have been deceived into thinking that only some things created by God are good that's being discussed in the Text. People that have been deceived into thinking Godly marraige is not Godly and/or some foods are not Godly and/or other things created good by God are not really good after all is the issue he speaks of in this passage as a departure from the faith.
I guess demons are wanting people to depart from some "other" faith... other than faith in Christ.
That is correct. And it's not funny. And you shouldn't have to guess about it. Do you think demons are not very apt at deceiving people into departing from their faith in Godly sanctioned marraige? Or tempting people with money or food?
Heck before you know it there will evidently be people claiming that a marraige between one man and one women is not what we've been created for by God. I know,I know, it sounds way far fetched, but just remember, Paul said it would happen that way. So don't be surprised if one day society starts to re-define marraige on their terms, not God's.
Oh wait.... isn't that already happening? I guess you haven't heard about it.
Mike
Member
I deleted a handful of posts over the last few pages based on the following concerns.
Let's do better, please.
- Scoffing or laughing at the interpretation of scripture others present.
- Openly refusing to present scriptural evidence based on the perception that the other member does not believe or understand said scripture.
Let's do better, please.
I see, so Paul is teaching His people to have faith in food, and warning that some in the latter days will depart from faith in food, because they will give heed to doctrines of demons; a teaching from demons that entices people to depart from faith in food.
Here all this time, I always though that faith came from...16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2
JLB
Please tell that to the angels who sinned in the days of Noah.
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
Being a son of God, does not mean that we are exempt from being cast into hell,
JLB
The way a person comes to know and understand what is right before God [righteousness], is they have been enlightened by the Holy Spirit when they are born again, through hearing the Gospel message, and are taught the word of God.
Faith in Jesus Christ is the faith.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2
The only faith there is, comes from God.
Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16
JLB
chessman
Member
I did not say Paul was teaching His people to have faith in food.
That's not the complete sentence. Paul continues his sentence by explaining exactly what he means here by "departing from the faith" and lists two different doctrines of demons that lead people to do just that (exactly that, depart the faith). All in one big long sentence. The part you keep leaving out.
Here, in this very sentence, to depart the faith means to:
1) forbid marrying and
2) insist on abstaining from foods that God created for sharing
Bull. Did not Eve and Adam have faith that the forbidden fruit was good to eat and desiriable? Yes. Did that faith come from God? No.
Genesis 3:6 (LEB) When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the eyes, and the tree was desirable to make one wise, then she took from its fruit and she ate. And she gave it also to her husband with her, and he ate.
Genesis 3:17 (LEB) And to Adam he said, “Because you listened to the voice of your wife and you ate from the tree from which I forbade you to eat, the ground shall be cursed on your account. In pain you shall eat from it all the days of your life.
1 Timothy 4:7 (LEB) But reject those worthless myths told by elderly women, and train yourself for godliness.
Oh, almost forgot. Please post the Scripture that says:"The only faith there is, comes from God."Genesis 3:17 (LEB) And to Adam he said, “Because you listened to the voice of your wife and you ate from the tree from which I forbade you to eat, the ground shall be cursed on your account. In pain you shall eat from it all the days of your life.
1 Timothy 4:7 (LEB) But reject those worthless myths told by elderly women, and train yourself for godliness.
I see now. So your teaching that faith can come from other sources, than from God.
Maybe this will help.
There isone body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6
JLB
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6
And again
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:16-17
Please show the scriptures that teaches us, faith comes from Satan or food or marriage.....
JLB
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netchaplain
Member
Amen DF, and good instructional post! Relationship with God can involve a union with Him without fellowship (often seen with Israel, which is always temporary because He eventually reestablishes fellowship) but there must be first union with Him. Once God establishes union (never with those He knows will remain in unbelief) it's permanent and He ensures that the knowledge and application of fellowship eventually occurs.
God's blessings to your Family!
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1
Do you believe that "the faith" mentioned here is the "One faith" above all others, that the Holt Spirit is warning that some will depart from, or is this some "other faith"?
JLB