What is knowing?

[Papa Zoom]

I think this is a good question for anyone but particularly a good one for Christians to consider. It's deeply philosophical and can get rather muddy at times, but it's important to try to get clarity on what exactly is the nature of knowing.

I believe we can know things but only in a finite sense. That is to say, we actually don't know them in the same way God knows. We simply are convinced, for whatever reasons, that a particular thing is true.

The best explanation of knowing I've found is this: "being personally convinced of the truth of something."

There have been many times throughout my life where someone I was talking to wanted to convince me of the truth of something. Often I would hear that the Holy Spirit guided them to their conclusion. I've always wondered about that. How can two people, guided by the same HS, come to two different conclusions?

I often hear quoted John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.

It is of course taken out of context since it can't possibly mean "all truth" that can possibly be known (since we don't know everything and never will).

So when we speak of knowing, aren't we simply saying that we are convinced of the truth of a proposition but not saying that we know with the same certainty as God knows?

 

[Nathan]

Knowledge and truth are separate things, knowing the truth something different also.

If God wants you to know something is true or false, you either believe He is telling you the truth or you don't.

Since God cannot lie, there is no reason to doubt that He will not tell you the truth about whatever it is He wants you to know.

There are a lot of things that cannot be known, so it cannot be known if they are true or not. However, that which is made known to us can be known to be true or not true.

The person who is in Christ has the Spirit of God in them. They need not believe another person based on what the other person says is true or not, rather, we should rely on the Spirit of God in us to tell us if something is true or false.

I have found that generally when someone is trying to tell someone else that this or that is true, it is usually because in convincing someone else we often find comfort in what we believe. Doubt breeds the need for conformation from outside sources.

Those who know the truth of something do not need to have others confirm it for them. There are many times I have doubted certain things in life, and I always go to others in order to get an opinion. This is not wrong, iron sharpens iron, however it should never be rested on as absolute truth.

There is one thing, and one thing alone that every person in Christ has in common. That is the Spirit of God in them. The Spirit of God is living - not a thing, but God Himself in us. We might often 'think' we know the truth, and the only thing we have to do to make sure what we believe is truth is to come to God Himself and have Him shine the light on us.

What happens is we do not want to come to the light. If there is any darkness in what we believe, there will be doubt. This is how a person can know for their selves - not someone else trying to tell them or convince them - if something is absolute truth or not. Absolute truth has no darkness and no doubt - none.

Are there things I 'know' that I have some doubt about? Most certainly. I know that we will be in heaven, but I do not know what its going to be like. I know I will see God, but I have no idea what He looks like. I know there are angels around us, but I do not know who they are.

However, there are other things I know that I have zero doubt about. Those things I know are true because the Spirit of God in me led me to the truth - no one else. Here is the point, when you absolutely know the truth, you are set free from all doubt that it is not true. You no longer desire to know it, but you find satisfaction in knowing it. It is the most peaceful feeling I know of.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Couldn't knowing simply be that your both convinced of something as well as right about it? Knowing from the Holy Spirit though who can say? If a person says they know because of the spirit then disagreeing might be disagree with the Holy Spirit. I've met at least one person who said they knew something from the Spirit because of being told in a dream or some such thing. I didn't believe them but tried to guard my doubt to a wait and see stance. Then when the pridiction was untrue I disregarded the person altogether.

In this way we can hold people to their own reliability, and if they go above themselves, above their yes be yes and their no be no, in either promises or unseen knowledge, then that above and beyond themselves aspect needs to be cautioned with the trustworthiness of that person.

 

[th1b.taylor]

deleted by the dummy

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Knowledge and truth are separate things, knowing the truth something different also.

If God wants you to know something is true or false, you either believe He is telling you the truth or you don't.

Since God cannot lie, there is no reason to doubt that He will not tell you the truth about whatever it is He wants you to know.

There are a lot of things that cannot be known, so it cannot be known if they are true or not. However, that which is made known to us can be known to be true or not true.

The person who is in Christ has the Spirit of God in them. They need not believe another person based on what the other person says is true or not, rather, we should rely on the Spirit of God in us to tell us if something is true or false.

I have found that generally when someone is trying to tell someone else that this or that is true, it is usually because in convincing someone else we often find comfort in what we believe. Doubt breeds the need for conformation from outside sources.

Those who know the truth of something do not need to have others confirm it for them. There are many times I have doubted certain things in life, and I always go to others in order to get an opinion. This is not wrong, iron sharpens iron, however it should never be rested on as absolute truth.

There is one thing, and one thing alone that every person in Christ has in common. That is the Spirit of God in them. The Spirit of God is living - not a thing, but God Himself in us. We might often 'think' we know the truth, and the only thing we have to do to make sure what we believe is truth is to come to God Himself and have Him shine the light on us.

What happens is we do not want to come to the light. If there is any darkness in what we believe, there will be doubt. This is how a person can know for their selves - not someone else trying to tell them or convince them - if something is absolute truth or not. Absolute truth has no darkness and no doubt - none.

Are there things I 'know' that I have some doubt about? Most certainly. I know that we will be in heaven, but I do not know what its going to be like. I know I will see God, but I have no idea what He looks like. I know there are angels around us, but I do not know who they are.

However, there are other things I know that I have zero doubt about. Those things I know are true because the Spirit of God in me led me to the truth - no one else. Here is the point, when you absolutely know the truth, you are set free from all doubt that it is not true. You no longer desire to know it, but you find satisfaction in knowing it. It is the most peaceful feeling I know of.

In arguments over the fate of Israel and Babylonian exile prophesied. I read at least one prophet argue with other false prophets. Until God's hand is revealed both arguments from the people can seem equally convincing.

Talking to people now a days I see people with great conviction in something I know from God to be wrong. I know this from reading the bible and am confidant from personal conviction. But the other person is convicted of their being right as well. I don't think they have any doubt. Or they have strengthened their stance until they removed all doubt from themselves.

....I hope what you say is true Nathan. But you must understand. The world is deceitful and many people don't even know that what they say is in error or is growing deceitful even to themselves. If they error in their judgment for what is from God, even those you trust to be closer to God then you are, then you begin to question the reliability of the idea that this is from God or that is from God. They could be from God, or they could be playing on our hopes, or our other philosophies. It's sad but I doubt I'm the only one who's seen these observations play out in the real world.

 

[th1b.taylor]

A vital subject crying for exposure by close to 98% of the Membership Roll. I have good reason to believe in what I do not see, touch nor smell. God has seen fit to speak seven words to me that were not of a prophetic nature, rather they led to the opening of my Spiritual Eyes and Ears unto Salvation. So it is that I honestly hold tight to my faith, willing to die what defending what is of God. It is very difficult to express that type of knowing but I knew before I was saved that God lived over twenty-three years before the Holy Spirit overcame me, not making me any more certain, no, but the Holy is building a jewel out of a wreck, much like unto a grain of sand in an oyster shell becomes a beautiful Pearl, of great value.

 

[Nathan]

In arguments over the fate of Israel and Babylonian exile prophesied. I read at least one prophet argue with other false prophets. Until God's hand is revealed both arguments from the people can seem equally convincing.

Talking to people now a days I see people with great conviction in something I know from God to be wrong. I know this from reading the bible and am confidant from personal conviction. But the other person is convicted of their being right as well. I don't think they have any doubt. Or they have strengthened their stance until they removed all doubt from themselves.

....I hope what you say is true Nathan. But you must understand. The world is deceitful and many people don't even know that what they say is in error or is growing deceitful even to themselves. If they error in their judgment for what is from God, even those you trust to be closer to God then you are, then you begin to question the reliability of the idea that this is from God or that is from God. They could be from God, or they could be playing on our hopes, or our other philosophies. It's sad but I doubt I'm the only one who's seen these observations play out in the real world.

I know the world is deceitful - which is why we should always look to God. Before the Spirit was given at the day of Pentecost, people had to rely on others for the truth. Now we do not have to rely on others for the truth. I believe there is a reason for this, but its not really apart of this topic.

Point is, there is NO ONE who is closer to God than yourself if you are in Christ. Being in Christ, and the Spirit of God in us, puts everyone on the same level. We should no doubt learn from each other, but NEVER rely on another person for truth.

Satan projects himself as an angel of light. So to try and rely on someone else for truth, based on their outward conviction, could be very misleading and dangerous.

Do we automatically reject someone because they state they are telling the truth? No. I have found some people to state such, and the Spirit of God confirms it in me.

What you point out is true though - and actually quite scary/sad. A person can become so hardened by a lie, rejecting the truth by convincing themselves what they know is true, that eventually God gives them over to their own desires. Paul warns of a great falling away/deception that is a result of this.

I do not think that the Spirit of God lets us believe a lie without great awareness that it is a lie. In other words, believing a lie is not going to be comfortable for the person in Christ - because it is the work of the Spirit to bring us into all truth.

 

[childeye]

I think this is a good question for anyone but particularly a good one for Christians to consider. It's deeply philosophical and can get rather muddy at times, but it's important to try to get clarity on what exactly is the nature of knowing.

I believe we can know things but only in a finite sense. That is to say, we actually don't know them in the same way God knows. We simply are convinced, for whatever reasons, that a particular thing is true.

The best explanation of knowing I've found is this: "being personally convinced of the truth of something."

There have been many times throughout my life where someone I was talking to wanted to convince me of the truth of something. Often I would hear that the Holy Spirit guided them to their conclusion. I've always wondered about that. How can two people, guided by the same HS, come to two different conclusions?

I often hear quoted John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.

It is of course taken out of context since it can't possibly mean "all truth" that can possibly be known (since we don't know everything and never will).

So when we speak of knowing, aren't we simply saying that we are convinced of the truth of a proposition but not saying that we know with the same certainty as God knows?

Great choice of topic Papa Zoom.
Do I know that 1+1 =2? I say yes.
Truth is a term implying an absolute. Therefore I can say with all surety, that if it were true that there were no truth, that would still be the truth.

To say I can know some truth, but I can never know all that is true, is problematic because never is also an absolute. Therefore to say that I do not actually know that I can never know all that is true, might be more true than saying I know I can never know all that is true.


To cut to the chase: That which is Eternal can never be proven to not be Eternal. So any attempt to prove that it is not Eternal would go on for eternity. Nor therefore can anyone disprove the negative claim that that which is Eternal is not Eternal.

Hence all things are built upon faith, and therefore the only true interpretation of faith is that God is Eternal. We therefore can never prove or know that God is Eternal. But we can prove and know that it is more right to believe that He is Eternal than right to believe that He is not. And this is the foundation of all Truth that can be known. Since lies are an afterthought to what is true, every lie ever invented serves to change faith into unfaith.

 

[Nathan]

Great choice of topic.
Do I know that 1+1 =2? I say yes.
Truth is a term implying an absolute. Therefore I can say with all surety, that if it were true that there were no truth, that would still be the truth.

To say I can know some truth, but I can never know all that is true, is problematic because never is also an absolute. Therefore to say that I do not actually know that I can never know all that is true, might be more true than saying I know I can never know all that is true.


To cut to the chase: That which is Eternal can never be proven to not be Eternal. So any attempt to prove that it is not Eternal would go on for eternity. Nor therefore can anyone disprove the negative claim that something is not Eternal. Hence all things are built upon faith, and therefore the only true interpretation of faith is that God is Eternal. We therefore can never prove or know that God is Eternal. But we can prove and know that it is more right to believe that He is Eternal than right to believe that He is not. And this is the foundation of all Truth that can be known.

I can appreciate this approach. Truth - False = no in-between, no partial truths, no partial lies.

The foundation I base 'truth' on is that God is 100% truth - and not one bit of Him is not. Therefore, because Christ was God among us, He also was 100% truth. So, when I read something that is written what He said, I can know it is 100% true - therefore, when something 'seems' to be contradictory(which breeds doubt), I look to how it could be known(understood) in a way that would not contradict - therefore be 100% true.

 

[childeye]

I can appreciate this approach. Truth - False = no in-between, no partial truths, no partial lies.

The foundation I base 'truth' on is that God is 100% truth - and not one bit of Him is not. Therefore, because Christ was God among us, He also was 100% truth. So, when I read something that is written what He said, I can know it is 100% true - therefore, when something 'seems' to be contradictory(which breeds doubt), I look to how it could be known(understood) in a way that would not contradict - therefore be 100% true.

I Like to reason upon only what is self-evident, lest I blaspheme God. Truth is not subjective, but authoritative. Honesty is a pre-requisite to seeing Truth and faith is the substance of things hoped for.

God is Spirit, (He can live in all men). God is Love/empathy. Love/empathy is Eternal. Faith is that God/Love/Empathy is Eternal. The crucifixion of the Christ is the revelation of an Eternal Divine Love displayed in a temporal setting. Righteousness is by grace through faith. Proof: If a person had no Love/empathy, they would not even care that they didn't.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

God is Spirit, (He can live in all men). God is Love/empathy. Love/empathy is Eternal. Faith is that God/Love/Empathy is Eternal. The crucifixion of the Christ is the revelation of an Eternal Divine Love displayed in a temporal setting. Righteousness is by grace through faith. Proof: If a person had no Love/empathy, they would not even care that they didn't.

Be careful Childeye. This sounds like a very philosophically heavy reasoning. Those can be the easiest to lead us away from the truth, even to say what is right in front of our eyes as not true.

Therefore ai want to give you a way to temper these kinds of thoughts. The best way to hold an idea to a reliable standard it to hold it in line with scriptures. The more scripture that help shape the reasoning (as well as no counter verses to say otherwise) the less likely the ideas are unreliable or purely out of our rational imaginations. The second best standard (in my opinion) is to go off of experience. Yours or someone elses it doesn't matter as long as it's reliable that the experience is true. After that philosophies chase after each other in their reasoning and their wording, and nany can confuse or lead people astray.

I don't mean to say this to disagree with what you've said, but more to caution you against a philosophical or logical kind of reasoning as the most influential.

 

[Nathan]

Honesty is a pre-requisite to seeing Truth and faith is the substance of things hoped for.

This is the truth. You will not know what is true until you agree with the Spirit of God that only He knows what is true.

It is no small thing to disregard the origin of sin - and what it was founded on. Pride and self-deception(thinking it is possible to know the truth apart from God).

Honesty is being open about something - not closing it up.

Luk 8:16-18
“No one after lighting a lamp covers it with a jar or puts it under a bed, but puts it on a stand, so that those who enter may see the light. For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light. Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away.”

Jhn 3:19-21
And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I know the world is deceitful - which is why we should always look to God. Before the Spirit was given at the day of Pentecost, people had to rely on others for the truth. Now we do not have to rely on others for the truth. I believe there is a reason for this, but its not really apart of this topic.

Point is, there is NO ONE who is closer to God than yourself if you are in Christ. Being in Christ, and the Spirit of God in us, puts everyone on the same level. We should no doubt learn from each other, but NEVER rely on another person for truth.

Satan projects himself as an angel of light. So to try and rely on someone else for truth, based on their outward conviction, could be very misleading and dangerous.

Do we automatically reject someone because they state they are telling the truth? No. I have found some people to state such, and the Spirit of God confirms it in me.

What you point out is true though - and actually quite scary/sad. A person can become so hardened by a lie, rejecting the truth by convincing themselves what they know is true, that eventually God gives them over to their own desires. Paul warns of a great falling away/deception that is a result of this.

I do not think that the Spirit of God lets us believe a lie without great awareness that it is a lie. In other words, believing a lie is not going to be comfortable for the person in Christ - because it is the work of the Spirit to bring us into all truth.

If one of us can be decieved that something is from God. And that person has had God in their life; then any of the rest of us can as well. This was an observation from watching my grandmother in her later years before she died. In those years she was in a great amount of pain and held tightly to the hope of being healed. She hope wnd believed God would heal her for her sake and for her family to finally believe in God and have their proof. The hope was strong. The pain was strong and the need and desire for it to be true can not be questioned. She got worse and eventually passed on. If the deception to believe what we want to hear can happen to her who had a great deal of faith and love for God, then it can happen to me, it can happen to you. And we might believe and hold out that what we believe is from God.

I don't want to tip your hope away for favoring doubt too much, but I have reasonon to doubt the logic that if we understand it's true strong enough then it must be true and from God's Spirit of truth.

 

[Nathan]

If one of us can be decieved that something is from God. And that person has had God in their life; then any of the rest of us can as well. This was an observation from watching my grandmother in her later years before she died. In those years she was in a great amount of pain and held tightly to the hope of being healed. She hope wnd believed God would heal her for her sake and for her family to finally believe in God and have their proof. The hope was strong. The pain was strong and the need and desire for it to be true can not be questioned. She got worse and eventually passed on. If the deception to believe what we want to hear can happen to her who had a great deal of faith and love for God, then it can happen to me, it can happen to you. And we might believe and hold out that what we believe is from God.

I don't want to tip your hope away for favoring doubt too much, but I have reasonon to doubt the logic that if we understand it's true strong enough then it must be true and from God's Spirit of truth.

Here is the the thing. When someone knows the truth, there is no doubt. If something is true it means there is no falsehood to it. Therefore, when someone knows the truth - its not a matter of doubt, but it transitions over to a matter of acceptance or rejection.

Believing something strong enough does not make it true - and not believing something does not make it untrue.

In the case of your grandmother, it was true that God could heal her - and just because it did not happen does not mean it is untrue that He could. We hope for things we do not have. When we have them, we no longer hope for them. When we have the truth of something, we no longer hope for it.

It was good that your grandmother hoped for healing and believed it would happen. The 'truth' of that situation is she knew it was true that God could do it. Sometimes God works in ways we do not understand. Just because she was not healed does not mean God did not work through her showing your family how she kept faith in God even when He did not work in the way she desired. To me, that shows the absolute understanding of her knowing the truth of God's power.

Truth is not based on what we know or believe. Truth stands alone. However, when it is combined with what we know, and it is believed - then at that point it is what the Bible calls faith.

 

[childeye]

Be careful Childeye. This sounds like a very philosophically heavy reasoning. Those can be the easiest to lead us away from the truth, even to say what is right in front of our eyes as not true.

Therefore ai want to give you a way to temper these kinds of thoughts. The best way to hold an idea to a reliable standard it to hold it in line with scriptures. The more scripture that help shape the reasoning (as well as no counter verses to say otherwise) the less likely the ideas are unreliable or purely out of our rational imaginations. The second best standard (in my opinion) is to go off of experience. Yours or someone elses it doesn't matter as long as it's reliable that the experience is true. After that philosophies chase after each other in their reasoning and their wording, and nany can confuse or lead people astray.

I don't mean to say this to disagree with what you've said, but more to caution you against a philosophical or logical kind of reasoning as the most influential.

I appreciate your concern. I already have declared what is self-evident Truth in #8. In #10 are some of the following implications built upon that Truth. Scripture testifies to everyone of them even claiming that they are knowable.

 

[childeye]

This is the truth. You will not know what is true until you agree with the Spirit of God that only He knows what is true.

It is no small thing to disregard the origin of sin - and what it was founded on. Pride and self-deception(thinking it is possible to know the truth apart from God).

Honesty is being open about something - not closing it up.

Luk 8:16-18
“No one after lighting a lamp covers it with a jar or puts it under a bed, but puts it on a stand, so that those who enter may see the light. For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light. Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away.”

Jhn 3:19-21
And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.

Excellent post!

 

[childeye]

If one of us can be decieved that something is from God. And that person has had God in their life; then any of the rest of us can as well. This was an observation from watching my grandmother in her later years before she died. In those years she was in a great amount of pain and held tightly to the hope of being healed. She hope wnd believed God would heal her for her sake and for her family to finally believe in God and have their proof. The hope was strong. The pain was strong and the need and desire for it to be true can not be questioned. She got worse and eventually passed on. If the deception to believe what we want to hear can happen to her who had a great deal of faith and love for God, then it can happen to me, it can happen to you. And we might believe and hold out that what we believe is from God.

I don't want to tip your hope away for favoring doubt too much, but I have reasonon to doubt the logic that if we understand it's true strong enough then it must be true and from God's Spirit of truth.

I'm sorry about your Grandmother. My parents had a similar belief system.

I have written concerning this topic because Truth is not impotent and I wanted to prove why. Perhaps I should have mentioned that the term "God" itself denotes an absolute, synonymous with Truth, or that which is and cannot not be.

Consequently, anyone who understands that this is what the term God implies, should never ask if someone believes in God or not. It would be a trick question with a false premise implying a possibility that Truth may or may not exist. Hence if it were possible that Truth did not exist, then knowledge would not exist, and neither would ignorance exist. Such terms would become incoherent. Seeing that God can only exist, is the beginning of the renewing of the mind.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I'm sorry about your Grandmother. My parents had a similar belief system.

I have written concerning this topic because Truth is not impotent and I wanted to prove why. Perhaps I should have mentioned that the term "God" itself denotes an absolute, synonymous with Truth, or that which is and cannot not be.

Consequently, anyone who understands that this is what the term God implies, should never ask if someone believes in God or not. It would be a trick question with a false premise implying a possibility that Truth may or may not exist. Hence if it were possible that Truth did not exist, then knowledge would not exist, and neither would ignorance exist. Such terms would become incoherent. Seeing that God can only exist, is the beginning of the renewing of the mind.

Thank you for the sympathy, but she's in a better place now. I bring her up though for the observation that I saw from her experiences. She believed she would be healed and she believed that to come from God. I think this was both from outside encouragement from other people and from her own experiences that she believed God had promised this for her. Who can say her beliefs are wrong? Who can say they wouldn't fall into a simular hope? When we are in pain we seek hope, strength, reassurance. If anyone finds it, even if it isn't true, how many hold on to that hope, and strengthen that hope so as to not fall into a despair? She was a woman who loved God and held a lot of faith. My point is that if this can happen to her, it can happen to any of us.

The truth is not always known, nor is it always obvious to see. I'll take your examples Childeye. 1+1= 2. This is true with regard to math and simple equations. But two is not always greater then one and a pair of one's don't automatically make a two. For instance if you have one rock. A large rock you can break it apart and have a larger number of rocks without actually changing the amount of rock you have. In this example two or three or seven or eight are really just pieces broken apart of the first rock. Then if you have one pound and one foot, you can not say you have two of either. All you can say is that you have one of one thing and one of another. The logic behind 1+1=2 is true if there is nothing else to consider into the equation.

As for God being Truth, I don't disagree with you, but I disagree with whether God can be disbelieved. The truth is rejected many times by many people, and simularily God is rejected by people as well. To those people it's not that the truth doesn't exist, it's that they don't recoginize that it is the truth. The fact that God does exist,doesn't meant they accept God, or that they recoginize Him to be there.

This is why I say be careful about philosophical stances. Our observations can thwart our philosophies, and our philosophies can lead us to wrong conclusions. Consider Job's three friends who came to consol Job in his grief. We as the readers know behind the scene what was occurring and why Job was suffering. But the three friends did not. By their logic they came to the conclusion that Job was at fault for his suffering, and his repentance would bring it all back. In the mist of Job losing his children (10 of them I think?) and losing his health to the degree of having sores cover his entire body, his friends offer little comfort in his suffering.

 

[Edward]

A vital subject crying for exposure by close to 98% of the Membership Roll. I have good reason to believe in what I do not see, touch nor smell. God has seen fit to speak seven words to me that were not of a prophetic nature, rather they led to the opening of my Spiritual Eyes and Ears unto Salvation. So it is that I honestly hold tight to my faith, willing to die what defending what is of God. It is very difficult to express that type of knowing but I knew before I was saved that God lived over twenty-three years before the Holy Spirit overcame me, not making me any more certain, no, but the Holy is building a jewel out of a wreck, much like unto a grain of sand in an oyster shell becomes a beautiful Pearl, of great value.

Or a shattered vessel being made into a beautiful tiffany lamp...

 

[Papa Zoom]

Thank you for the sympathy, but she's in a better place now. I bring her up though for the observation that I saw from her experiences. She believed she would be healed and she believed that to come from God. I think this was both from outside encouragement from other people and from her own experiences that she believed God had promised this for her. Who can say her beliefs are wrong? Who can say they wouldn't fall into a simular hope? When we are in pain we seek hope, strength, reassurance. If anyone finds it, even if it isn't true, how many hold on to that hope, and strengthen that hope so as to not fall into a despair? She was a woman who loved God and held a lot of faith. My point is that if this can happen to her, it can happen to any of us.

The truth is not always known, nor is it always obvious to see. I'll take your examples Childeye. 1+1= 2. This is true with regard to math and simple equations. But two is not always greater then one and a pair of one's don't automatically make a two. For instance if you have one rock. A large rock you can break it apart and have a larger number of rocks without actually changing the amount of rock you have. In this example two or three or seven or eight are really just pieces broken apart of the first rock. Then if you have one pound and one foot, you can not say you have two of either. All you can say is that you have one of one thing and one of another. The logic behind 1+1=2 is true if there is nothing else to consider into the equation.

As for God being Truth, I don't disagree with you, but I disagree with whether God can be disbelieved. The truth is rejected many times by many people, and simularily God is rejected by people as well. To those people it's not that the truth doesn't exist, it's that they don't recoginize that it is the truth. The fact that God does exist,doesn't meant they accept God, or that they recoginize Him to be there.

This is why I say be careful about philosophical stances. Our observations can thwart our philosophies, and our philosophies can lead us to wrong conclusions. Consider Job's three friends who came to consol Job in his grief. We as the readers know behind the scene what was occurring and why Job was suffering. But the three friends did not. By their logic they came to the conclusion that Job was at fault for his suffering, and his repentance would bring it all back. In the mist of Job losing his children (10 of them I think?) and losing his health to the degree of having sores cover his entire body, his friends offer little comfort in his suffering.