Reiterate it ? I have already !Yes, I understand that.
Perhaps you should reiterate what point you are trying to make, in a short sentence or two?
Get us back to the basic theme?
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
Reiterate it ? I have already !Yes, I understand that.
Perhaps you should reiterate what point you are trying to make, in a short sentence or two?
Get us back to the basic theme?
I guess I joined too late to get back on the track.Reiterate it ? I have already !
Jesus was addressing OT men who still walked in the flesh.
Had Jesus died and been raised from the dead at this point in the narrative?This is where your “indoctrination” gets exposed.
You have to twist the plain truth of the scriptures to explain away whatever doesn’t fit into your “indoctrination mold”.
It is also written..."He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
- And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church
Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18;15-17
Jesus is teaching His disciples, how to deal with a brother, a brother in Christ who sins, and His disciples continue to pass on His teaching to their disciples, even to this day.
These instructions are for the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ.
You have deceived yourself, as the scriptures themselves testify.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10
The blood of Jesus was shed to be the final sacrifice for sins, both for the Church and for the whole world.
As we can all see, “ours” refers not to the world but is a reference to Christians; the Church
- And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2
Warning:
No longer will you be allowed to promote your false “sinless perfection” doctrine in this Forum.
If you do, your privileges will be suspended.
You are welcome here and you are loved. Please engage in discussions in the Forum freely, as I believe you have a lot to share and I agree with much of your posts.
However, do not post elements of the “sinless perfection“ doctrine which include, but are not limited to the following:
JLB
- Insinuating a person was never saved if they commit a sin.
- Promoting the idea that the confession and forgives of sin is not for born again Christians. (1 John 1:9)
- Claiming that that our physical body “literally dies” and is physically resurrected from the dead as a sinless body at water baptism.
for_his_glory
stovebolts
Serving Zion
Truthfrees
Had Jesus died and been raised from the dead at this point in the narrative?
No.
He lived according to Laws that were eclipsed after His resurrection.
The audience were OT men.
It is also written..."He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:4)
Doesn't that mean no sinner "knows Him"?
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)
If I were an Israeli forgiving another Israeli, like whom Jesus is speaking to...yes.A brother who lives his life breaking His commandments is a liar, if he says I know Him.
A brother who sins and repents when confronted continues in fellowship with his brethren and the Lord.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. Matthew 18:15
A brother who sins, and then repents remain a brother in Christ.
- If he hears you, you have gained your brother
Only if he refuses to repent after being confronted by two or three brothers and then the Church, is he considered to be a heathen and tax collector.
This is the teaching of the New Testament, and are the words of Jesus Christ; instructions for His disciples to practice and to teach to the Church.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:19-20
- teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;
Do you believe the teachings of Christ in the Gospels is for the Church?
Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. Matthew 18:21-22
Do you believe we are to forgive a brother who sins against us?
If I were an Israeli forgiving another Israeli, like whom Jesus is speaking to...yes.
As my Father is now God almighty, I have no brothers that commit sin.
If an unbeliever sins against me, I will forgive him.
If I were an Israeli forgiving another Israeli, like whom Jesus is speaking to...yes.
I'm listening to you. I'm just telling you that you're using the passage out of context. You're saying that anyone who isn't a believer is blinded. That isn't what Paul said. Firstly, there are three types of people regarding the Gospel. There are those who have heard and believe. There are those who have heard and don't believe. And, there are those who have never heard. Those who have never heard the Gospel don't disbelieve the Gospel. One has to hear it in order to disbelieve it. So, these people haven't been blinded. The ones who have been blinded are those who have disbelieved the Gospel, they heard it. Here is who was blinded.I know what it says, and understand what it means, apparently you dont, and you not listening to me.
I'm listening to you. I'm just telling you that you're using the passage out of context. You're saying that anyone who isn't a believer is blinded. That isn't what Paul said. Firstly, there are three types of people regarding the Gospel. There are those who have heard and believe. There are those who have heard and don't believe. And, there are those who have never heard. Those who have never heard the Gospel don't disbelieve the Gospel. One has to hear it in order to disbelieve it. So, these people haven't been blinded. The ones who have been blinded are those who have disbelieved the Gospel, they heard it. Here is who was blinded.
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (2 Cor. 3:5-17 KJV),
They were blinded. The veil was upon their hearts. It's pretty clear who Paul is saying was blinded as long as we keep the passage in context. We can't just take passages of Scripture, rip them from their context and say they mean what we want them to mean.
Paul says that them which are lost, to them the Gospel is hidden, its hidden to them that are lost which results in unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4I'm listening to you. I'm just telling you that you're using the passage out of context. You're saying that anyone who isn't a believer is blinded. That isn't what Paul said. Firstly, there are three types of people regarding the Gospel. There are those who have heard and believe. There are those who have heard and don't believe. And, there are those who have never heard. Those who have never heard the Gospel don't disbelieve the Gospel. One has to hear it in order to disbelieve it. So, these people haven't been blinded. The ones who have been blinded are those who have disbelieved the Gospel, they heard it. Here is who was blinded.
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (2 Cor. 3:5-17 KJV),
They were blinded. The veil was upon their hearts. It's pretty clear who Paul is saying was blinded as long as we keep the passage in context. We can't just take passages of Scripture, rip them from their context and say they mean what we want them to mean.
And in chapter three he said who they were.Paul says that them which are lost, to them the Gospel is hidden, its hidden to them that are lost which results in unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The god of this world has blinded,,,present tense,,,the minds of them which believe not?Yes thats what it says 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
As long as a person is in a lost state, the Gospel is hidden, their minds are blinded resulting in unbelief !
Paul says that them which are lost, to them the Gospel is hidden, its hidden to them that are lost which results in unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
I once attended a church that taught that a person has the ability not to sin.Sinless perfection
Sinless perfection came from the teachings of John Wesley, Charles Wesley, John Fletcher of the 18th century in whom founded the "Holiness movement". What they teach about sinless perfection are only taught in their own theology as they take scripture out of context to support their theories and man made doctrines.
This website above explains this massive stumbling block that is place before others that yet have little knowledge and are easily deceived into believing a lie.
Of course I do. Everyone was a sinner in the OT...with a few holy exceptions.Do you even realize what you are implying by this statement?
As you don't even believe there are non-sinners in the OT, why are you so amazed those of the OT were all sinners?You are implying that Jesus is instructing sinners, people who walk in the flesh, to go and tell another sinner to turn away from his sin.
Careful there...calling a work of God a result of "spirit error" and "not of the Holy Ghost" is blasphemy.Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church...
Like I said, this is where your indoctrination gets exposed (the stronghold that is entrenched in your mind), so that you only see the knowledge of God, the scripture, through the “lense” of your indoctrination.
Your ”theology“ is driven by a spirit of error, not the Holy Spirit.
You are "praying" I go back into sin and start manifesting I am still of Adam's seed?I am praying for you, that the Lord will remove this stronghold that was constructed in your mind, when you first came to the Lord as a young Christian, hungry for the truth. I believe the Spirit of truth will deliver you from this indoctrination.
You "heard of" it, about Jesus.I once attended a church that taught that a person has the ability not to sin.
If they did, they lost their salvation.
This sounded very wrong to me even though I was not familiar with the bible at all.
I left that church.
Later, I came to find out that the pastor was stealing monies belonging to the church fund.
The Pope goes to confession once a week.
I very much agree with your statement that the statements of Hopeful could be very discouraging to others.
I like his posts and other doctrines. It's my hope that he can stop statements regarding sinless perfection,,,which I have not witnessed in any human ...
The only one that was sinless in the whole Bible was Jesus. All the Prophets and Apostles struggled with sin like all of us today. Go read the Bible and you will see this for yourself since you do not believe us.As you don't even believe there are non-sinners in the OT, why are you so amazed those of the OT were all sinners?