Church Throughout Revelations

[crossnote]

I'm sorry you feel I am criticizing the other side as that is not my intention. My intention is to get others to see what has already been written in the scriptures. I too at one time believed in a pretrib Rapture, but noting in scripture was lining up with what these teachers teach.

So you think the GT (aka Jacob's Trouble) is designed for today's believer's rather than chastising unbelieving Israel unto saving faith?

 

[eddif]

So you think the GT (aka Jacob's Trouble) is designed for today's believer's rather than chastising unbelieving Israel unto saving faith?

Romans 11:22 kjv
22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in hisgoodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rod of discipline staff of rescue.

eddif

 

[choir loft]

A lot of you might scoff and think this is foolishness, especially those of you that are not in the Lord or allow man to teach you instead of the Holy Spirit, but God said in Daniel 12:4 and Proverbs 10:14 that knowledge would increase more towards the end of days and what God has been revealing to me through the Holy Spirit has been a warning to not be afraid of what must come, but to prepare ourselves to learn how to endure what we are going to have to go through before the return of Christ. Hosea 4:6 says my people perish for lack of knowledge.

Most pastors teach a pretrib rapture, but this is false teaching and not according to what God has already taught us.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ,

People that participate in these pages don't scoff at foolishness.

They're too busy promoting their own brand of off-the-rails ideology to pay any attention to Biblical intent or context or the sad history of others who've done the same. Priests and pastors are the chief offenders in this game for it is profit not prophecy that motivates them all. Few spiritual leaders are concerned with spiritual responsibility. Those that do concern themselves with spiritual responsibility speak with muted voices for American Christians do not want to hear their words. People simply do not want to be told what to do.

One of the chief heresies of American Protestantism is the idea that one learns from the Holy Spirit in a perverse form of spiritual osmosis. By the time most of us reached the third grade level of elementary school we'd been taught that knowledge doesn't come by osmosis. One cannot press a book upon one's brow and expect a mystical transference of knowledge to be absorbed directly from paper to brain. 2 Timothy 2:15 advises the reader to "study to show yourself approved".

Study means work in the form of reading, humble acceptance of guidance from a qualified instructor, consideration of circumstances, and acquisition of skills to acquire knowledge from a variety of sources. The Holy Spirit acts as guide to good instruction, to proofs of God's Word in the physical world, and devices by which one may learn discernment of truth from propaganda, buzz words and religious slogans. Unfortunately the American protestant church has substituted the latter two forms as truth for the honest labor of scholarship. In other words, we've become too lazy to bother with learning something solid. Consequently anyone with a hair brained idea can pass it off as divine revelation or prophecy by osmosis. Do I need to remind the reader the Bible warns against FALSE PROPHETS? Do I need to remind the reader the Bible chronicles times when the devil USED SCRIPTURE for its purposes? How shall we discern the difference? We do so by study, by working at learning - not by osmosis. Does it hurt to think? If so, then studied exercise is a prescription best suited to cure the malady of Biblical illiteracy.

There is no such thing as RAPTURE.

Five hundred years ago the Protestant Reformation swept over Europe. It promised a fresh approach to learning and teaching God's plan of Redemption. The Roman Catholic Church, fearing a loss of revenue and control over its members, began several programs to reverse the trend. One was the publication of a work called FUTURISM by Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera. In this work, approved by the Vatican, Biblical statements indicating the RCC was the anti-christ religious system were redefined and recreated. A series of fantastic future events were substituted so as to mask the true involvement of the Vatican in the suppression of God's Word and redemptive work. One of these false doctrines of the devil was the idea that the church, not Israel, was God's gift to the world. The RCC went on to certify it by continuing to murder as many Jews as possible and to claim the Pope is God, not Jesus Christ.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. - Daniel 7:25

In the mid-19th century, American false prophet and consort of witches John Nelson Darby published RCC FUTURISM and gave it a new coat of paint by naming his version DISPENSATIONALISM. Most of his tome marched in lock step with Vatican assertions and was fully accepted by the American Protestant church with all due fanaticism and ardor. It didn't matter to anyone in the western hemisphere that no other branch of protestantism on earth bought the idea. In the USA it became unquestioned gospel as it is to this day. The doctrine of the rapture as well as Replacement Theology/Supersessionism are two primary examples.

Lastly I am compelled to point out that it isn't the church that represents the Bride of Christ, it's ISRAEL. "God did not reject His people..." - Paul as quoted in Romans 11:2a. When one accepts Christ one becomes a Jew (Romans 2:29), not a member of a church dedicated to anti-Semitism and doctrines of demons.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

One of the chief SINs of the American Protestant church is rejection of the LAW and the God who gave it. Jesus did NOT abolish or destroy the LAW and is quoted as saying so by Matthew 5:17. In truth most American churches are so confused about the Son of Man that they don't even know who He IS. Why was it necessary for God to die on the cross? Most do not know because their spiritual leaders are too busy promoting their latest real estate improvements or additions to their staff (few of whom are actually educated in Biblical studies). TV evangelist Jimmie Baker never read the Bible until he was sentenced to prison for real estate fraud. The Baker case is emblematic of the current situation in America of our leadership. As recently as a month ago I asked an ordained leader of a Methodist church in upstate New York about the meaning and importance of repentance. She did not know.

The work of scholarship needs to progress in ways never before observed else what remains of the church will be swept away. Our games of trivia may one day include memories of a religious organization that was once respected and honored. Today its place has been usurped by the untouchable respected and honored LGBTQ community.

How far have we fallen, yet how sincerely we continue to cling to doctrines of the devil and scholastic laziness. It is time to repent for the sake of ourselves, our families and our communities. God might appreciate the attention too.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS
Please to not reply to this post with another nauseating list of scriptures to prove rapture dogma. We've all heard and read that jazz before. It's as false now as it was five hundred years ago when Ribera first concocted the scheme. We don't need to be punished with reiterations of it today. "All effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand." - Adolph Hitler.

RAPTURE dogma erodes faith in God to save. It was, is, and will always be A LIE.

 

[Quantrill]

People that participate in these pages don't scoff at foolishness.

They're too busy promoting their own brand of off-the-rails ideology to pay any attention to Biblical intent or context or the sad history of others who've done the same. Priests and pastors are the chief offenders in this game for it is profit not prophecy that motivates them all. Few spiritual leaders are concerned with spiritual responsibility. Those that do concern themselves with spiritual responsibility speak with muted voices for American Christians do not want to hear their words. People simply do not want to be told what to do.

One of the chief heresies of American Protestantism is the idea that one learns from the Holy Spirit in a perverse form of spiritual osmosis. By the time most of us reached the third grade level of elementary school we'd been taught that knowledge doesn't come by osmosis. One cannot press a book upon one's brow and expect a mystical transference of knowledge to be absorbed directly from paper to brain. 2 Timothy 2:15 advises the reader to "study to show yourself approved".

Study means work in the form of reading, humble acceptance of guidance from a qualified instructor, consideration of circumstances, and acquisition of skills to acquire knowledge from a variety of sources. The Holy Spirit acts as guide to good instruction, to proofs of God's Word in the physical world, and devices by which one may learn discernment of truth from propaganda, buzz words and religious slogans. Unfortunately the American protestant church has substituted the latter two forms as truth for the honest labor of scholarship. In other words, we've become too lazy to bother with learning something solid. Consequently anyone with a hair brained idea can pass it off as divine revelation or prophecy by osmosis. Do I need to remind the reader the Bible warns against FALSE PROPHETS? Do I need to remind the reader the Bible chronicles times when the devil USED SCRIPTURE for its purposes? How shall we discern the difference? We do so by study, by working at learning - not by osmosis. Does it hurt to think? If so, then studied exercise is a prescription best suited to cure the malady of Biblical illiteracy.

There is no such thing as RAPTURE.

Five hundred years ago the Protestant Reformation swept over Europe. It promised a fresh approach to learning and teaching God's plan of Redemption. The Roman Catholic Church, fearing a loss of revenue and control over its members, began several programs to reverse the trend. One was the publication of a work called FUTURISM by Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera. In this work, approved by the Vatican, Biblical statements indicating the RCC was the anti-christ religious system were redefined and recreated. A series of fantastic future events were substituted so as to mask the true involvement of the Vatican in the suppression of God's Word and redemptive work. One of these false doctrines of the devil was the idea that the church, not Israel, was God's gift to the world. The RCC went on to certify it by continuing to murder as many Jews as possible and to claim the Pope is God, not Jesus Christ.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. - Daniel 7:25

In the mid-19th century, American false prophet and consort of witches John Nelson Darby published RCC FUTURISM and gave it a new coat of paint by naming his version DISPENSATIONALISM. Most of his tome marched in lock step with Vatican assertions and was fully accepted by the American Protestant church with all due fanaticism and ardor. It didn't matter to anyone in the western hemisphere that no other branch of protestantism on earth bought the idea. In the USA it became unquestioned gospel as it is to this day. The doctrine of the rapture as well as Replacement Theology/Supersessionism are two primary examples.

Lastly I am compelled to point out that it isn't the church that represents the Bride of Christ, it's ISRAEL. "God did not reject His people..." - Paul as quoted in Romans 11:2a. When one accepts Christ one becomes a Jew (Romans 2:29), not a member of a church dedicated to anti-Semitism and doctrines of demons.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

One of the chief SINs of the American Protestant church is rejection of the LAW and the God who gave it. Jesus did NOT abolish or destroy the LAW and is quoted as saying so by Matthew 5:17. In truth most American churches are so confused about the Son of Man that they don't even know who He IS. Why was it necessary for God to die on the cross? Most do not know because their spiritual leaders are too busy promoting their latest real estate improvements or additions to their staff (few of whom are actually educated in Biblical studies). TV evangelist Jimmie Baker never read the Bible until he was sentenced to prison for real estate fraud. The Baker case is emblematic of the current situation in America of our leadership. As recently as a month ago I asked an ordained leader of a Methodist church in upstate New York about the meaning and importance of repentance. She did not know.

The work of scholarship needs to progress in ways never before observed else what remains of the church will be swept away. Our games of trivia may one day include memories of a religious organization that was once respected and honored. Today its place has been usurped by the untouchable respected and honored LGBTQ community.

How far have we fallen, yet how sincerely we continue to cling to doctrines of the devil and scholastic laziness. It is time to repent for the sake of ourselves, our families and our communities. God might appreciate the attention too.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS
Please to not reply to this post with another nauseating list of scriptures to prove rapture dogma. We've all heard and read that jazz before. It's as false now as it was five hundred years ago when Ribera first concocted the scheme. We don't need to be punished with reiterations of it today. "All effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand." - Adolph Hitler.

RAPTURE dogma erodes faith in God to save. It was, is, and will always be A LIE.

Now, had I said the same things you said, of those of us who believe the Rapture is a true Scriptural doctrine, I would have been banned, or at least threatened with a ban.

You and for_his_glory brand the teaching of the Rapture as false teaching and those who teach it as false prophets. That is quite an accusation. And far fetched.

I disagree with your views on eschatology. That doesn't make them false. It doesn't make you a false teacher.

To those who want to ignore the Rapture as though it doesn't exist, or who want to place the Rapture at the Second Coming of Christ, then you are not anticipating the 2nd Coming of Christ that could occur at any moment. You can only be watching for the anti-christ and the tribulation. Of course there will be some who don't believe the Tribulation either.

Quantrill

 

[eddif]

People that participate in these pages don't scoff at foolishness.

They're too busy promoting their own brand of off-the-rails ideology to pay any attention to Biblical intent or context or the sad history of others who've done the same. Priests and pastors are the chief offenders in this game for it is profit not prophecy that motivates them all. Few spiritual leaders are concerned with spiritual responsibility. Those that do concern themselves with spiritual responsibility speak with muted voices for American Christians do not want to hear their words. People simply do not want to be told what to do.

One of the chief heresies of American Protestantism is the idea that one learns from the Holy Spirit in a perverse form of spiritual osmosis. By the time most of us reached the third grade level of elementary school we'd been taught that knowledge doesn't come by osmosis. One cannot press a book upon one's brow and expect a mystical transference of knowledge to be absorbed directly from paper to brain. 2 Timothy 2:15 advises the reader to "study to show yourself approved".

Study means work in the form of reading, humble acceptance of guidance from a qualified instructor, consideration of circumstances, and acquisition of skills to acquire knowledge from a variety of sources. The Holy Spirit acts as guide to good instruction, to proofs of God's Word in the physical world, and devices by which one may learn discernment of truth from propaganda, buzz words and religious slogans. Unfortunately the American protestant church has substituted the latter two forms as truth for the honest labor of scholarship. In other words, we've become too lazy to bother with learning something solid. Consequently anyone with a hair brained idea can pass it off as divine revelation or prophecy by osmosis. Do I need to remind the reader the Bible warns against FALSE PROPHETS? Do I need to remind the reader the Bible chronicles times when the devil USED SCRIPTURE for its purposes? How shall we discern the difference? We do so by study, by working at learning - not by osmosis. Does it hurt to think? If so, then studied exercise is a prescription best suited to cure the malady of Biblical illiteracy.

There is no such thing as RAPTURE.

Five hundred years ago the Protestant Reformation swept over Europe. It promised a fresh approach to learning and teaching God's plan of Redemption. The Roman Catholic Church, fearing a loss of revenue and control over its members, began several programs to reverse the trend. One was the publication of a work called FUTURISM by Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera. In this work, approved by the Vatican, Biblical statements indicating the RCC was the anti-christ religious system were redefined and recreated. A series of fantastic future events were substituted so as to mask the true involvement of the Vatican in the suppression of God's Word and redemptive work. One of these false doctrines of the devil was the idea that the church, not Israel, was God's gift to the world. The RCC went on to certify it by continuing to murder as many Jews as possible and to claim the Pope is God, not Jesus Christ.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. - Daniel 7:25

In the mid-19th century, American false prophet and consort of witches John Nelson Darby published RCC FUTURISM and gave it a new coat of paint by naming his version DISPENSATIONALISM. Most of his tome marched in lock step with Vatican assertions and was fully accepted by the American Protestant church with all due fanaticism and ardor. It didn't matter to anyone in the western hemisphere that no other branch of protestantism on earth bought the idea. In the USA it became unquestioned gospel as it is to this day. The doctrine of the rapture as well as Replacement Theology/Supersessionism are two primary examples.

Lastly I am compelled to point out that it isn't the church that represents the Bride of Christ, it's ISRAEL. "God did not reject His people..." - Paul as quoted in Romans 11:2a. When one accepts Christ one becomes a Jew (Romans 2:29), not a member of a church dedicated to anti-Semitism and doctrines of demons.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

One of the chief SINs of the American Protestant church is rejection of the LAW and the God who gave it. Jesus did NOT abolish or destroy the LAW and is quoted as saying so by Matthew 5:17. In truth most American churches are so confused about the Son of Man that they don't even know who He IS. Why was it necessary for God to die on the cross? Most do not know because their spiritual leaders are too busy promoting their latest real estate improvements or additions to their staff (few of whom are actually educated in Biblical studies). TV evangelist Jimmie Baker never read the Bible until he was sentenced to prison for real estate fraud. The Baker case is emblematic of the current situation in America of our leadership. As recently as a month ago I asked an ordained leader of a Methodist church in upstate New York about the meaning and importance of repentance. She did not know.

The work of scholarship needs to progress in ways never before observed else what remains of the church will be swept away. Our games of trivia may one day include memories of a religious organization that was once respected and honored. Today its place has been usurped by the untouchable respected and honored LGBTQ community.

How far have we fallen, yet how sincerely we continue to cling to doctrines of the devil and scholastic laziness. It is time to repent for the sake of ourselves, our families and our communities. God might appreciate the attention too.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS
Please to not reply to this post with another nauseating list of scriptures to prove rapture dogma. We've all heard and read that jazz before. It's as false now as it was five hundred years ago when Ribera first concocted the scheme. We don't need to be punished with reiterations of it today. "All effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand." - Adolph Hitler.

RAPTURE dogma erodes faith in God to save. It was, is, and will always be A LIE.

Could you tell me what you think about the one new man theology?

I have no problem with the Romans 3 advantage of the Jewish Christian.

The Acts proclamation that sent Paul to the gentiles seems to acknowledge the one new man.

Thanks

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

People that participate in these pages don't scoff at foolishness.

They're too busy promoting their own brand of off-the-rails ideology to pay any attention to Biblical intent or context or the sad history of others who've done the same. Priests and pastors are the chief offenders in this game for it is profit not prophecy that motivates them all. Few spiritual leaders are concerned with spiritual responsibility. Those that do concern themselves with spiritual responsibility speak with muted voices for American Christians do not want to hear their words. People simply do not want to be told what to do.

One of the chief heresies of American Protestantism is the idea that one learns from the Holy Spirit in a perverse form of spiritual osmosis. By the time most of us reached the third grade level of elementary school we'd been taught that knowledge doesn't come by osmosis. One cannot press a book upon one's brow and expect a mystical transference of knowledge to be absorbed directly from paper to brain. 2 Timothy 2:15 advises the reader to "study to show yourself approved".

Study means work in the form of reading, humble acceptance of guidance from a qualified instructor, consideration of circumstances, and acquisition of skills to acquire knowledge from a variety of sources. The Holy Spirit acts as guide to good instruction, to proofs of God's Word in the physical world, and devices by which one may learn discernment of truth from propaganda, buzz words and religious slogans. Unfortunately the American protestant church has substituted the latter two forms as truth for the honest labor of scholarship. In other words, we've become too lazy to bother with learning something solid. Consequently anyone with a hair brained idea can pass it off as divine revelation or prophecy by osmosis. Do I need to remind the reader the Bible warns against FALSE PROPHETS? Do I need to remind the reader the Bible chronicles times when the devil USED SCRIPTURE for its purposes? How shall we discern the difference? We do so by study, by working at learning - not by osmosis. Does it hurt to think? If so, then studied exercise is a prescription best suited to cure the malady of Biblical illiteracy.

There is no such thing as RAPTURE.

Five hundred years ago the Protestant Reformation swept over Europe. It promised a fresh approach to learning and teaching God's plan of Redemption. The Roman Catholic Church, fearing a loss of revenue and control over its members, began several programs to reverse the trend. One was the publication of a work called FUTURISM by Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera. In this work, approved by the Vatican, Biblical statements indicating the RCC was the anti-christ religious system were redefined and recreated. A series of fantastic future events were substituted so as to mask the true involvement of the Vatican in the suppression of God's Word and redemptive work. One of these false doctrines of the devil was the idea that the church, not Israel, was God's gift to the world. The RCC went on to certify it by continuing to murder as many Jews as possible and to claim the Pope is God, not Jesus Christ.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. - Daniel 7:25

In the mid-19th century, American false prophet and consort of witches John Nelson Darby published RCC FUTURISM and gave it a new coat of paint by naming his version DISPENSATIONALISM. Most of his tome marched in lock step with Vatican assertions and was fully accepted by the American Protestant church with all due fanaticism and ardor. It didn't matter to anyone in the western hemisphere that no other branch of protestantism on earth bought the idea. In the USA it became unquestioned gospel as it is to this day. The doctrine of the rapture as well as Replacement Theology/Supersessionism are two primary examples.

Lastly I am compelled to point out that it isn't the church that represents the Bride of Christ, it's ISRAEL. "God did not reject His people..." - Paul as quoted in Romans 11:2a. When one accepts Christ one becomes a Jew (Romans 2:29), not a member of a church dedicated to anti-Semitism and doctrines of demons.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

One of the chief SINs of the American Protestant church is rejection of the LAW and the God who gave it. Jesus did NOT abolish or destroy the LAW and is quoted as saying so by Matthew 5:17. In truth most American churches are so confused about the Son of Man that they don't even know who He IS. Why was it necessary for God to die on the cross? Most do not know because their spiritual leaders are too busy promoting their latest real estate improvements or additions to their staff (few of whom are actually educated in Biblical studies). TV evangelist Jimmie Baker never read the Bible until he was sentenced to prison for real estate fraud. The Baker case is emblematic of the current situation in America of our leadership. As recently as a month ago I asked an ordained leader of a Methodist church in upstate New York about the meaning and importance of repentance. She did not know.

The work of scholarship needs to progress in ways never before observed else what remains of the church will be swept away. Our games of trivia may one day include memories of a religious organization that was once respected and honored. Today its place has been usurped by the untouchable respected and honored LGBTQ community.

How far have we fallen, yet how sincerely we continue to cling to doctrines of the devil and scholastic laziness. It is time to repent for the sake of ourselves, our families and our communities. God might appreciate the attention too.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS
Please to not reply to this post with another nauseating list of scriptures to prove rapture dogma. We've all heard and read that jazz before. It's as false now as it was five hundred years ago when Ribera first concocted the scheme. We don't need to be punished with reiterations of it today. "All effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand." - Adolph Hitler.

RAPTURE dogma erodes faith in God to save. It was, is, and will always be A LIE.

I agree and also have the evidence of Ribera. I have always asked others if we are Raptured out of here before the seven trumpets of tribulation, then what is the purpose of God's wrath, the son of perdition, the mark of the beast or even a 1000 year if all us are are already caught up tp Christ. It would make no sense.

 

[for_his_glory]

You and @for_his_glory brand the teaching of the Rapture as false teaching and those who teach it as false prophets. That is quite an accusation. And far fetched.

You have yet to show any scripture that supports this theory, but I have given many many scriptures that say we are caught up to Christ on the last day when Christ returns. What I present below is my own study on pretrib as I wrote this myself.

There is a lot of talk, teachings and even movies about a Pre-trib rapture coming before a Great Tribulation and these are false teachings straight from antichrist (Satan) as I want to show you how false these teachings are. He who has ears to hear and eyes to see the Spiritual things of God are those who will know the mysteries of the word of God. I too use to believe these teachings, but something in my Spirit never set well with them until I started reading all the scriptures that were given to support this theory or false teachings.

These pre-trib theories started with Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland who first told others of a vision she had in 1830. She admitted the vision seemed evil and dark, but many preachers of that time ran with it and eventually was handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something. First I want to show you what the seven year tribulation was. (Actually the Bible never talks about seven years, but 3½ only) Yes was as we will always have tribulations and persecutions until the day Jesus returns in the clouds to take us home.

There is no mention in scripture of a seven year tribulation period as in Revelations God speaks to us in scripture of the seven trumpets sounding in the end of days throughout the world, but yet no one knows how long the first six trumpets will last. The sounding of the seventh trumpet will usher in the 3 ½ years of tribulation when the reign of the son of perdition that Satan works through begins, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12. The first six trumpets of God’s great wrath will bring much devastation to those who are still alive at this time as chaos will run rampant. There is no mention of a seven year tribulation period as we will always have tribulations until Christ returns.

Scripture only teaches of 3 ½ years starting with the seventh trumpet as time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years. The seventh trumpet is more devastating then the ones before it as this is the time when the son of perdition takes his literal seat in Jerusalem causing all through deceiving signs and wonders to bow down to him and take his mark, 1 Thessalonians 2:3-9; Rev 13.

[Scripture reference]

Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7

1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6

42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

The abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 was 1260 years (a year is as a day with the Lord) of Papal Rome rule from 538AD with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius and the beast (Pope) until the deadly wound came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the papal government and established a secular one. This is also confirmed in Revelation 12:6 the church of Jesus would hide in the wilderness for exactly 1260 days (years) or 3 ½ years. This was the time when Rome persecuted the Christians and killed them which were around 500 million saints slain for the cause of their faith in Jesus. 1798 – 538 = 1260 days/years. Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy, its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican (a church), has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world.

Matthew 24:13 but he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved. This means the end of Papal rule in 1798. Vs. 14 and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the entire world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come. This means that now the gospel can be preached through out the world as we have been set free from Papal authority even though Papal Rome will try to take its seat in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, which is also an abomination to God as Satan said “I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (other ruling powers) I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congregation in the sides of the north (Jerusalem). I will ascend above the clouds, I will be like the Most High,” Isaiah 14:12-14. The seven year trib (3½ years) has already passed and is not a certain future event although much tribulation is to come through Papal Rome.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:17, Vs. 16 says Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it, and Rev 1:7 says every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. Second of all John 14:17 shows us that the Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air. For this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, 2Corinthians 1:21,22, and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.​

 

[for_his_glory]

Dustin Blystone instead of putting your full teaching in here can you just summarize the scriptures you want to use as I only want to discuss the scriptures on this subject. Thank you.

 

[for_his_glory]

To those who want to ignore the Rapture as though it doesn't exist, or who want to place the Rapture at the Second Coming of Christ, then you are not anticipating the 2nd Coming of Christ that could occur at any moment. You can only be watching for the anti-christ and the tribulation. Of course there will be some who don't believe the Tribulation either.

How do you explain what Jesus gave us to watch for in these three verses?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Dustin Blystone]

@Dustin Blystone instead of putting your full teaching in here can you just summarize the scriptures you want to use as I only want to discuss the scriptures on this subject. Thank you.

I think you have no interest in legitimate discussion and debate. You don't answer questions and points, only always do you redirect to your firmly held beliefs and disrespect the people who are trying to engage in friendly and respectful discourse.

You say you just want Scriptures summarized and don't want my "full teaching" then you expound on how you interpret the Scriptures you post with massive commentary which is highly speculative and not Scripturally based at all, for instance:

The abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 was 1260 years (a year is as a day with the Lord) of Papal Rome rule from 538AD with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius and the beast (Pope) until the deadly wound came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the papal government and established a secular one. This is also confirmed in Revelation 12:6 the church of Jesus would hide in the wilderness for exactly 1260 days (years) or 3 ½ years. This was the time when Rome persecuted the Christians and killed them which were around 500 million saints slain for the cause of their faith in Jesus. 1798 – 538 = 1260 days/years. Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy, its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican (a church), has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world.

You also once again posted the proven erroneous claim after I demonstrated that your claim on 1800's was false in your recent post here:

These pre-trib theories started with Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland who first told others of a vision she had in 1830. She admitted the vision seemed evil and dark, but many preachers of that time ran with it and eventually was handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something. First I want to show you what the seven year tribulation was. (Actually the Bible never talks about seven years, but 3½ only) Yes was as we will always have tribulations and persecutions until the day Jesus returns in the clouds to take us home.

Based on this behavior, I will cease and desist from engaging with discussion with you here.

It saddens me that you have proven yourself to be a bad actor and someone who is only out to bully and insist and demean and belittle anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint. Very, very sad.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not sure . . . You are asking an awful lot of me.

As I previously mentioned . . . you seem steeped in your belief . . . I likewise am steeped in mine.

You attack pre-trib Scriptures in advance to insist they are not teaching what pre-trib believers believe about them.

Therefore, it seems you are more interested in this:

Since you mentioned 23 years, I assume you are more steeped in your beliefs than I think I'm willing to deal with.

You seem to also be on a mission to attack the pre-trib view in order to help "prepare" people . . .

I find that absurd . . . there is no preparing for the Tribulation . . . that is my opinion . . . if you think you can "prepare" for it . . . then good luck.

I think you are one that has all of your contradictions ready to go, so that you can engage in the automatic gainsaying of anything I might say as per the video above and have no interest in hearing what I have to say other than to immediately come back with a copy/paste answer you have in your arsenal.

I've written two Bible Study books . . . and teach on them on my YouTube channel.

When you say you are a teacher, what does that mean? You teach Sunday School? Bible Studies? etc.?

I'm from the Chuck Missler school of thought . . . so you can easily see my viewpoints and the Scripture references thereof by watching his videos or listening to his audio teachings, but you obviously won't do that since you are only here to argue, and to be on your "mission" of "preparing" people for the Tribulation . . . a fruitless errand in my opinion.


Why do you think I don't believe what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31? You make a lot of assumptions.

I think it is best we don't waste any more of each other's time?

What say you?

For many years I sat under all these pretrib teachings believing everything that was taught. When I started studying it for myself going over all the scriptures they use, I could not see how they made those scriptures fit their teachings. I thought maybe I just can not see it, so I decided to do a deeper study with the full context of both OT and NT and nothing in those scriptures taught anything about a pretrib, but only taught Jesus would return on the very last day sending His angels out to gather us all together to meet Him in the air as He then would make an end to all abominations here on earth.

I really do not care if people believe me or not as they even rejected the very teachings of the Prophets and Christ as they make the word of God line up with their theories instead of lining up with what has already been written.

I have been asking for 20 years that someone would show me in the scriptures where it says anything about a pretrib Rapture of the church, but no one has ever shown me these scriptures so we can discuss them as rational adults.

Yes, I am steeped in the scriptures, not the hand me down bandwagon teachings of man. I for one want to know what must come first before Christ returns so I am prepared not to be deceived by Satan who works through others to deceive us.

Believe me, don't believe me, but God has called and prepared me to teach on end times.

 

[for_his_glory]

What would an at trib 1000 year day be called?
A day of separating sheep from goats
A day of glory for those listed in the Lambs book of life
A day of damnation for the lost

Would the sun and moon and stars be gone and time is no more?

Would we rule and reign for that 1000 year day?

Just a thought

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Sorry about the length so just take your time reading what I have written here.

Right after the seven vial judgments have been poured out on those who took the mark of the beast mystery Babylon will have been revealed and destroyed with fire as the kings of all the nations who took part in her will flee and bewail her destruction as well as those merchants who were made rich by her. Heaven and all those souls that have gone back to God while their physical bodies returned to the ground/grave will then rejoice as their blood will be avenged by God as the great city Babylon that has been revealed will be destroyed and the preaching of the Gospel will end as the door of Salvation will be closed forever as in Jesus was life and life was the light of men, but the darkness could not comprehend it, Rev 16-18, John 1:1-5.

Rev 19:1-6 begins with all those in heaven as they are rejoicing as God will have judged the great whore and destroys her in the end of days as even now she is corrupting the earth an causes much blood shed as she persecutes the saints of God to death. Rev 19:7-10 comes the timing of the marriage of the Lamb as the whore of Babylon and her city will have been destroyed and all those who are Christ asleep in the grave and alive at His coming have prepared themselves for the marriage of the Lamb as they being His Bride will sup with Him for eternity. Rev 19:7-9 mentions nothing of us being caught up to Him yet, but to us it will be granted that we being the Bride should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.

The events that follow after heaven rejoices starting with Rev 19:11-21 is that Jesus returns with his army of warring angels (not the saints of God) from heaven that follow Him, as Jesus will then destroy the beast and fasle prophet casting them into the lake of fire and then will strike dead the remnant by the words of His mouth as the remnant are those who the beast uses to rule evil over the nations. Christ then sends an angel to bind Satan for a 1000 years so he can no longer deceive the nations (people) anymore until he is set loose for a time. A 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture other than Rev 20 does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

Rev 20:4-15 during this time of Satan being bound comes the resurrection of all, (as all means saints and those who are not of faith in God), who are asleep in the ground will hear the voice of Christ calling them to come forth as some will be resurrected to eternal life with the Father and others to damnation, John 5:28,29, 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 1:1-10; 4:13-18. When we are given our new glorified bodies Jesus will gather us to Him like a mother hen gathers her chicks under her wings for protection, Matthew 23:34-39. Satan will be loosed for a short time to go out and deceive the nations by gathering all those who are his own and then sends them to attack the camp of the saints, but God sends fire down from heaven to devour them. Satan is then cast into the lake of fire followed by those who stand in Gods Great White Throne judgment and as their names are not written in the book of life will then be cast into the lake of fire and remembered no more.

Many teach that there are two resurrections, but that is not what scriptures says.There is only one resurrection, but two judgments of those who sleep in the grave, John 5:28,29. Everyone was created by God, but not all are found faithful to Him as many refused to Hear the word of God and turned away from Him and will continue to do so until the coming of the Lord. Then there are those like that of the parable Jesus gave in Matthew 25:14-30 and the judgment of the Gentiles in Matthew 25:31-46. We know Jesus comes with rewards as the rewards are different for each one.

Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4 were only visions John was being shown as it is only the souls that are reigning with Christ in heaven as John 3:13 says no one other than Christ has ever ascended up to heaven. The only thing that goes back to God when this physical body dies and goes back to the dust of the ground is the very breath/spirit that made us a living soul as the soul can never die, Genesis 22:7; Ecc 12:7; Matthew 10:28. Those souls John was being shown are reigning with Christ in Heaven for a time until all of God's enemies become His footstool as Christ who sits at the right hand of the Father reigns with Him in heaven until the end comes on the last day, John 6:40, when Christ returns and establishes His kingdom here on earth and takes His seat on the throne of David in the New Jerusalem, Isaiah 66:1; Matthew 5:33-37; Hebrews 10:12,13.

Many look for a physical kingdom here on earth and read into Rev 20 that Christ will reign for a thousand years here on earth with His saints, but truth is that Christ has always reigned with God from before the foundation of the world and for all eternity, John 1:1-4; 1Peter 1:18-23. It was Satan's pride that caused the nations to sin against God as Satan ruled evil over the nations, Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:13-17, but yet the nations have always been Gods kingdoms as in the end of days He will separate the sheep from the goats/wheat from the tares. In Rev 11:14-19 the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever. What this means is that Gods longsuffering and patience will come to an end, 2 Peter 3:9, 10, as His great wrath is poured out on the earth. All His enemies will become His footstool, then will He send Christ and His army of angels to destroy all that is an abomination to Him casting it all into the lake of fire. Jesus will at that time establish His kingdom here on earth as God makes new the heaven and earth ushering down the new Jerusalem as we will then be with the Lord forever, Luke 19:12; 1Corinthians 15:20-26; 2 Peter 3:10; Colossians 1:13; John 18:36, Rev 21:1.

Everything from Rev 11:14 that starts the third woe with the seventh trumpet sounding and continues through Rev 20:15 comes quickly in Gods timing, even though man tries to put a certain timing to the beginning and end of Gods great wrath. We inherit the kingdoms of God from the day of our Spiritual rebirth, John 3:3-6; Romans 10:9,10 as they have been prepared for us from the foundation of the world, Matthew 25:34. We reign with Christ here on this present earth as Gods grace gives us all power and authority through that of Christ Jesus for it is not our power and authority, but is Christ's that works in us and through us as a faithful servant as He is in us and we in Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

So you think the GT (aka Jacob's Trouble) is designed for today's believer's rather than chastising unbelieving Israel unto saving faith?

Times of Jacob's Trouble

Jeremiah 30 vs. 1, 2 starts out with the Lord speaking to Jeremiah about Judah an Israel. Vs 3 the Lord promises that one day in the future as the day will come that He will bring Judah and Israel back to the land He had promised to their forefathers. Vs. 5 describes a time of great fear and trembling. Vs. 6 describes this time in a way that pictures men going through the pains of childbirth, meaning great agony. Vs. 7 For that day is great so that no other day will ever be like it. This is a reference to Matthew 24:21; Rev 7:1-8. But, there is hope for Judah and Israel for though this is called the time of Jacob's trouble the Lord promises He will save Jacob (referring to Judah and Israel, not literally Jacob) out of this time of great trouble, Rev 19:11-21. Vs. 8 It shall come to pass in that day (in that day means a future day) says the Lord that He will break his yoke from off their necks and will burst thy bonds and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him. His yoke is that of Satan who for now controls the evil principalities of this world that even today, until Christ returns, persecutes God's people. Vs. 9 But they shall serve the Lord their God and David their King, meaning Jesus whom God will raise up (resurrection) unto them. Vs 10, 11 the Lord says, I will surely save you out of a distant place, your descendants from the land of their exile. Jacob will again have peace and security and no one will make him afraid. I am with you and will save you declares the Lord.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think you have no interest in legitimate discussion and debate. You don't answer questions and points, only always do you redirect to your firmly held beliefs and disrespect the people who are trying to engage in friendly and respectful discourse.

You say you just want Scriptures summarized and don't want my "full teaching" then you expound on how you interpret the Scriptures you post with massive commentary which is highly speculative and not Scripturally based at all, for instance:



You also once again posted the proven erroneous claim after I demonstrated that your claim on 1800's was false in your recent post here:



Based on this behavior, I will cease and desist from engaging with discussion with you here.

It saddens me that you have proven yourself to be a bad actor and someone who is only out to bully and insist and demean and belittle anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint. Very, very sad.

Sorry you have read me wrong and have taken such an attitude towards me when all I want from you was to show me the scriptures and how you understand them without going into page after page of what you more than likely are copy and pasting from others who teach this. I have read the pretrib books and watched all these pretrib Pastors for years as I once believed in these teachings so I already know what they teach.

I only wanted your own perspective, but if this is to much to ask of you then it is your choice not to engage with me. Like I have said, I do not force the teachings I have written on anyone as we all have to come to our own understanding. Just giving mine.

 

[Quantrill]

You have yet to show any scripture that supports this theory, but I have given many many scriptures that say we are caught up to Christ on the last day when Christ returns. What I present below is my own study on pretrib as I wrote this myself.

There is a lot of talk, teachings and even movies about a Pre-trib rapture coming before a Great Tribulation and these are false teachings straight from antichrist (Satan) as I want to show you how false these teachings are. He who has ears to hear and eyes to see the Spiritual things of God are those who will know the mysteries of the word of God. I too use to believe these teachings, but something in my Spirit never set well with them until I started reading all the scriptures that were given to support this theory or false teachings.

These pre-trib theories started with Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland who first told others of a vision she had in 1830. She admitted the vision seemed evil and dark, but many preachers of that time ran with it and eventually was handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something. First I want to show you what the seven year tribulation was. (Actually the Bible never talks about seven years, but 3½ only) Yes was as we will always have tribulations and persecutions until the day Jesus returns in the clouds to take us home.

There is no mention in scripture of a seven year tribulation period as in Revelations God speaks to us in scripture of the seven trumpets sounding in the end of days throughout the world, but yet no one knows how long the first six trumpets will last. The sounding of the seventh trumpet will usher in the 3 ½ years of tribulation when the reign of the son of perdition that Satan works through begins, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12. The first six trumpets of God’s great wrath will bring much devastation to those who are still alive at this time as chaos will run rampant. There is no mention of a seven year tribulation period as we will always have tribulations until Christ returns.

Scripture only teaches of 3 ½ years starting with the seventh trumpet as time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years. The seventh trumpet is more devastating then the ones before it as this is the time when the son of perdition takes his literal seat in Jerusalem causing all through deceiving signs and wonders to bow down to him and take his mark, 1 Thessalonians 2:3-9; Rev 13.

[Scripture reference]

Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7

1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6

42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

The abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 was 1260 years (a year is as a day with the Lord) of Papal Rome rule from 538AD with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius and the beast (Pope) until the deadly wound came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the papal government and established a secular one. This is also confirmed in Revelation 12:6 the church of Jesus would hide in the wilderness for exactly 1260 days (years) or 3 ½ years. This was the time when Rome persecuted the Christians and killed them which were around 500 million saints slain for the cause of their faith in Jesus. 1798 – 538 = 1260 days/years. Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy, its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican (a church), has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world.

Matthew 24:13 but he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved. This means the end of Papal rule in 1798. Vs. 14 and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the entire world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come. This means that now the gospel can be preached through out the world as we have been set free from Papal authority even though Papal Rome will try to take its seat in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, which is also an abomination to God as Satan said “I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (other ruling powers) I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congregation in the sides of the north (Jerusalem). I will ascend above the clouds, I will be like the Most High,” Isaiah 14:12-14. The seven year trib (3½ years) has already passed and is not a certain future event although much tribulation is to come through Papal Rome.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:17, Vs. 16 says Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it, and Rev 1:7 says every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. Second of all John 14:17 shows us that the Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air. For this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, 2Corinthians 1:21,22, and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.​

Nice speech. Yet you ignored everything I said. Instead, you go on with your mantra about how no one can prove any Rapture.

My point in the last post is that you arn't looking for Christ's 2nd Coming. You're looking for the the anti-christ and the Tribulation.

So, please address what I said instead of your 'mantra'.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

How do you explain what Jesus gave us to watch for in these three verses?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You refuse to answer my questions given in post#(41). And now, concerning my post #(65), you don't deny you are not looking for Christ's 2nd Coming. Instead you are looking for the anti-christ and the Tribulation.

And, as usual...you want me to answer your questions, while ignoring mine.

Typical.

Why ask me how I explain certain verses? I thought you knew. Why not just say? I mean, I am the 'false teacher' here...correct? I am teaching a lie...correct?

Selective enforcement. Typical in the world.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Nice speech. Yet you ignored everything I said. Instead, you go on with your mantra about how no one can prove any Rapture.

My point in the last post is that you arn't looking for Christ's 2nd Coming. You're looking for the the anti-christ and the Tribulation.

So, please address what I said instead of your 'mantra'.

Quantrill

If you believe in a pretrib Rapture then why don't you share the scriptures with me so we can discuss them?

BTW, I do look for the second coming of Christ as He has already given us the signs to watch for as I have shown the scriptures for this. I also look for the son of perdition as then I know Christ coming is closer. Not everyone is a watcher, but I am as I want to know what must come first so I am prepared to flee when it happens as Jesus told us to flee when we see the abomination that will cause desolation.

 

[Quantrill]

If you believe in a pretrib Rapture then why don't you share the scriptures with me so we can discuss them?

BTW, I do look for the second coming of Christ as He has already given us the signs to watch for as I have shown the scriptures for this. I also look for the son of perdition as then I know Christ coming is closer. Not everyone is a watcher, but I am as I want to know what must come first so I am prepared to flee when it happens as Jesus told us to flee when we see the abomination that will cause desolation.

No, you can't be watching for the 2nd Coming. The anti-christ, the mark of the beast, the Tribulation all must occur first.
In other words, saying you look for the 2nd Coming, doesn't mean you expect it at any moment. You don't. You are looking for the anti-christ. Not Christ.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

You assume you know the timing of the Rapture...which is also in question.

According to Matthew 24:36 no one knows when Christ will return, but back in vs. 29-31 Jesus gave us the sign of His coming as He only returns once.

What about Christ in the grave for 3 days? Why isn't that symbolic? Or maybe you believe it is.

Because it was literal as the disciples witnessed this event and wrote about His resurrection.

What about Christ period? Why shouldn't He just be symbolic? He just represents the better nature of ourselves and how we should strive to be good. Sounds good doesn't it.

I think anyone who calls themself a Christian knows Jesus is very real if they read about Him.

Explain how you arrive at what is literal and symbolic in the Bible.

Many things in scripture are literal, but also symbolic like many things in Revelation during the seven trumpets as the Holy Spirit reveals the difference as the carnal mind can not perceive the things of the Spirit.

As far as the 1000 years I explained that in post #73

 

[for_his_glory]

No, you can't be watching for the 2nd Coming. The anti-christ, the mark of the beast, the Tribulation all must occur first.
In other words, saying you look for the 2nd Coming, doesn't mean you expect it at any moment. You don't. You are looking for the anti-christ. Not Christ.

Quantrill

I never said I expect it any moment if you would actually read my post as the son of perdition must take his seat first causing all to take his mark or die a martyr's death for the sake of Christ as this comes during the timing of the seventh trumpet sounding.

If you would like I can give you the full scenario of what will happen during the seven trumpets sounding.