The Law and Grace

[GodsGrace]

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law,
not the smallest letter or stroke (markings used to write Hebrew).
Matthew 5:17
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.


Paul said we are not under the Law but are under grace.
Romans 6:14
14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


Is this a conflict in the New Testament?

1. What did Jesus mean by saying that He came to fulfill the Law?
2. What is the difference between the Law and Grace?
3. Does Grace nullify the Law? (Romans 3:31)
4. Does any of this have anything to do with the Covenants?

 

[GodsGrace]

I hope jaybo will join this thread.
(and everyone else)

 

[Hopeful]

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law,
not the smallest letter or stroke (markings used to write Hebrew).
Matthew 5:17
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Paul said we are not under the Law but are under grace.
Romans 6:14
14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Is this a conflict in the New Testament?

No conflict.
Jesus was talking to OT Jews who still walked in the Law...or tried to anyway.
Paul is writing to NT men who walked in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
A change had occurred with the transition from OT to NT.
The Law is written in the hearts of those reborn from God's seed.
It doesn't include many of the old "fleshly" oriented things like circumcision or dietary laws that could not make a man holy.

The Law and prophets were presages of Christ.
They are called shadows, in Heb 10:1..."For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."
And in Col 2:16-17..."Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

They have been fulfilled by the shadow caster, Christ Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

No conflict.
Jesus was talking to OT Jews who still walked in the Law...or tried to anyway.
Paul is writing to NT men who walked in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
A change had occurred with the transition from OT to NT.
The Law is written in the hearts of those reborn from God's seed.
It doesn't include many of the old "fleshly" oriented things like circumcision or dietary laws that could not make a man holy.

The Law and prophets were presages of Christ.
They are called shadows, in Heb 10:1..."For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."
And in Col 2:16-17..."Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

They have been fulfilled by the shadow caster, Christ Jesus.

So the difference between the OT and NT is that we can eat what we want to?

If we're under grace, does it nullify the law?

 

[Hopeful]

So the difference between the OT and NT is that we can eat what we want to?

That is about the smallest of the things we can do now that we have been enabled to walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
But yes.

If we're under grace, does it nullify the law?

The law of Christ is just as it has always been...Love God with all your might, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
On these two things hang all of the Law and profits.
So, does not eating ham allow us to love any more than if we do eat ham?
No...so it is surely OT only.
Does allowing your crops to go fallow every seventh year allow us to love God and neighbor more?
No, though the wisdom of God is shown in doing so before fertilizers were developed.
The same question can be asked regarding every nuance of the Mosaic Law.
If it helps us love God and neighbor, do it. (Like don't kill, lie, commit adultery, steal, etc)
If not, what is the point?

Grace doesn't neutralize the Law of Moses, it allows us to live the truest sense of it.
Loving God with all your might, and loving our neighbors as we love ourselves.
OT feast keeping can't do that.

 

[for_his_glory]

Old Mosaic Covenant New Spiritual Covenant



OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14 NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6

FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1 SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9

Came by Moses... John 1:17 Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15

Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3 Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16

Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39 Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2

Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6 Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2

NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2 Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27

Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1 Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25

Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6 Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31

Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7 Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8

Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9 Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9

A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17 The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18

FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18 NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9

Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12 UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24

MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13 ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12

IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19 PERFECT... Heb. 7:19

Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19 Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28

Circumcision... Ex. 12:48 Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12

WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10 NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8

REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3 FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17

YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3 PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4

SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3 SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26

AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11 MELCHISEDEC priest... Heb. 5:5-10

MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5 HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11

Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11 Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14

WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18 POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16

NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13 ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15

Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13 Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28

Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13 Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14

PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15 SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9

Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19 Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14

NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28 COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12

NO justification... Acts 13:39 BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39

BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10 REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13

ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13 CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11

Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7 Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18

ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3 ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19

 

[GodsGrace]

That is about the smallest of the things we can do now that we have been enabled to walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
But yes.

The law of Christ is just as it has always been...Love God with all your might, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
On these two things hang all of the Law and profits.
So, does not eating ham allow us to love any more than if we do eat ham?
No...so it is surely OT only.
Does allowing your crops to go fallow every seventh year allow us to love God and neighbor more?
No, though the wisdom of God is shown in doing so before fertilizers were developed.
The same question can be asked regarding every nuance of the Mosaic Law.
If it helps us love God and neighbor, do it. (Like don't kill, lie, commit adultery, steal, etc)
If not, what is the point?

Grace doesn't neutralize the Law of Moses, it allows us to live the truest sense of it.
Loving God with all your might, and loving our neighbors as we love ourselves.
OT feast keeping can't do that.

Hi Hopeful,
Your last paragraph strikes a very good point.

Jesus did not abolish the Moral Law...it is still in effect today, and it will always be in effect.

In the Mosaic Covenant (Old Covenant) the Law was written on stone.
God gave the command, which was the requirement to obey His laws.
The Isratelites said they would, but quickly forgot and went on with their life as usual.
They were not able to keep God's requirement of obedience to His Moral Law.

In the New Covenant, the Law is still applicable. It has not been abolished.
But now it's written on our hearts...
Jeremiah 31:33
"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."



Ezekiel 36:26 The heart of stone has been removed and replaced with the heart of flesh.

You stated very well what the New Covenant does:
Grace doesn't neutralize the Law of Moses, it allows us to live the truest sense of it.

Couldn't have been stated more simply and more precisely !

I become discouraged to hear some Christians state that our deeds/works are dirty rags and some even state that it's a sin to work for our salvation...

After we are saved, we are required to do good deeds.

 

[GodsGrace]

Old Mosaic Covenant New Spiritual Covenant



OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14 NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6

FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1 SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9

Came by Moses... John 1:17 Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15

Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3 Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16

Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39 Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2

Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6 Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2

NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2 Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27

Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1 Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25

Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6 Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31

Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7 Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8

Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9 Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9

A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17 The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18

FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18 NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9

Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12 UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24

MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13 ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12

IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19 PERFECT... Heb. 7:19

Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19 Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28

Circumcision... Ex. 12:48 Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12

WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10 NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8

REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3 FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17

YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3 PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4

SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3 SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26

AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11 MELCHISEDEC priest... Heb. 5:5-10

MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5 HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11

Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11 Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14

WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18 POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16

NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13 ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15

Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13 Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28

Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13 Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14

PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15 SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9

Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19 Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14

NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28 COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12

NO justification... Acts 13:39 BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39

BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10 REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13

ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13 CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11

Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7 Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18

ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3 ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19

Great post !

The bible was written over a span of about 1,500 years.
It's incredible how it's perfectly synchronized and so many different writers spanning hundreds of years are in agreement in thought, or even furthering revelation from God.

Today it seems that every 50 years or so we change what the N.T. "meant" to say...
concentrating on one topic or another and missing the complete message.

 

[stovebolts]

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law,
not the smallest letter or stroke (markings used to write Hebrew).
Matthew 5:17
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Great thread!
I’ve always taken this verse with a Jewish mindset, meaning Jesus is taking the role of a Rabbi to his Jewish audience.

This is the opening statement from Jesus which begins his infamous Sermon on the Mount which concludes in chapter 7 in which time and again Jesus states, You have heard… but I say…

For an observant Jew, the Law was to be lived out in the Spirit God intended. (This is a good thing). A good Rabbi taught how to live out the commandments within the law and if a Rabbi got it terribly wrong, it was considered that that Rabbi abolished the law because he so grossly missed the mark the spirit of the commandment was nowhere to be realized. On the other hand, if one could live out the command perfectly the way God intended, it was said that he fulfilled the law.

And so it is that Jesus says, “you have heard”, which is to say that other teachers have abolished the law and then goes on to say, “but I say”, which is to say, here is the proper meaning of that passage and how God intends you to live it out.

Paul said we are not under the Law but are under grace.
Romans 6:14
14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

I don’t think it’s good to redact these two passages as they have two different contexts. A simple exegesis on the two passages would prove this out in a fairly straightforward manner.

What is the difference between the Law and Grace?

Paul was writing to gentiles who were never under the Mosaic law.
Where there is no law, there is no trespass.

. Does Grace nullify the Law? (Romans 3:31)

No

Does any of this have anything to do with the Covenants?

Yes

 

[eddif]

Boy I will really be messed up here. I operate from a smart phone and there is no way (right now) to move the small insert passage and text together. If I was smarter maybe.

I did not see festival / feast of first fruits.
Jesus was the first fruit from the grave. We eat his body and drink his blood. Jesus fulfilled the festival. Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word from God.
Two different contexts, but the same concept.

I will be really slow on having to work out a visual presentation.

For _His_Glory can you easily post scripture texts with comments? I use a laborious method. If you can just do the first 4 that would help. I have no prewritten stockpile.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Law vs. grace, which one are we under or are we under both! Some believe all 613 Mosaic laws were fulfilled in Christ and some only believe we only have ten of them to keep as they are separate from the other 613. Logic tells us if God loves all His creation then His grace covers everyone and all will go to heaven. It always comes down to what and how one is taught doctrine and becomes a battle field when it is debated. I would dare say there are more that have never even heard of or even taken the time to read all 613 laws to see what has actually been fulfilled in Christ then there are that have taken the time for a deeper truth. Do all of the laws only apply to that of the Hebrews or do some parts of the law apply even after grace as in keeping those certain laws as they are written on our hearts. Sometimes you just have to empty your mind of all the teachings you have ever heard on this topic of law vs. grace and go straight to the source which is the word of God to find out what He has already said.

The only laws that were done away with or fulfilled were that of the Temple and the sacrifices as the physical Temple and it's sacrifices no longer exist under grace by Christ fulfillment of them, Matthew 5:17,18. We are now that temple that the Holy Spirit dwells in, not our flesh for that will turn back to the dust of the ground and will never enter the kingdom of God, but that of our spirit making union with that of Gods Spirit through His grace that is freely given, not by works, but as a fee gift of Gods love, Mark 7:14-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:8-18.

The books of the NT are not part of the Hebrew scriptures (Torah or the Tanakh), but that of instruction of Gods righteousness as God has given first to the Hebrew a new covenant of grace and then extended His grace to those outside of Israel (Gentiles) the same free gift of His grace, Romans 15:16. When we being that of a Gentile nation partake in that of Christ life, death and resurrection our inner man (spirit, not this flesh) is renewed by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5, 6, as we are led by the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us all truths, John 14:26, but we are still under the moral laws of Gods commandments that are written upon our hearts that we need to keep until that of Christ return.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.​

 

[for_his_glory]

eddif if you want to tag another member in a post it has to be done like this so they know they have been tagged

type it out like this, but without any spaces. @ for_his_glory go ahead and give it a try.

 

[GodsGrace]

Great thread!
I’ve always taken this verse with a Jewish mindset, meaning Jesus is taking the role of a Rabbi to his Jewish audience.

And you did well !
Jesus was called Rabbi by many.
Nicodemus John 3:2
Mary John 20:16
Andrew John 1:38
and surely many more that are not noted in the gospels.

Jesus came to be a teacher also, besides being a King, a Prophet, and a Priest.
To teach the Jews how to get back to God after having been separated from Him from all the laws steeped upon them by the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Matthew 23:25....speaks of the anger Jesus had for the hypocrites of the day...who washed the cup outside but ignored the inside...just trying to look holy, without actually worshipping God.

This is the opening statement from Jesus which begins his infamous Sermon on the Mount which concludes in chapter 7 in which time and again Jesus states, You have heard… but I say…

For an observant Jew, the Law was to be lived out in the Spirit God intended. (This is a good thing). A good Rabbi taught how to live out the commandments within the law and if a Rabbi got it terribly wrong, it was considered that that Rabbi abolished the law because he so grossly missed the mark the spirit of the commandment was nowhere to be realized. On the other hand, if one could live out the command perfectly the way God intended, it was said that he fulfilled the law.

Agreed. Fulfilling the Law meant making it complete in some that not really everyone could do...but that Jesus did.
His perfection allowed Him to be our atonement.
A sinful person could not do this.
It was to be lived out in spirit, as you've stated.
This brings to mind:
Matthew 5:19
"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And so it is that Jesus says, “you have heard”, which is to say that other teachers have abolished the law and then goes on to say, “but I say”, which is to say, here is the proper meaning of that passage and how God intends you to live it out.

Right.

I don’t think it’s good to redact these two passages as they have two different contexts. A simple exegesis on the two passages would prove this out in a fairly straightforward manner.

I posted them because they SEEM to be in conflict...
but they are not. Paul taught obedience just as Jesus did.
It's a modern day idea that all we need is faith.
Some look down at obedience as if it were not necessary.

Paul was writing to gentiles who were never under the Mosaic law.
Where there is no law, there is no trespass.

The only way to avoid breaking the Law is to have no law to break. (NLT Romans 4:15)
We are kept by Christ and are under grace...thus there is no Law to break.
So could we keep on sinning?
May it never be! Romans 6:1
We cannot continue to live in sin, if we have died to sin and the Law. Romans 6.2

 

[eddif]

eddif if you want to tag another member in a post it has to be done like this so they know they have been tagged

type it out like this, but without any spaces. @ for_his_glory go ahead and give it a try.

for_his_glory

I am hiding / listening right now.
What to do with what I hear, well, that is yet to be known?

I mean on multiple threads.
…….
IBM came up with a marvelous add on socket board idea years ago. But none of the other computer manufacturers would support the idea. So each computer manufacturer wanted their own board socket.

We will see.
Either light photons
Or eyes of understanding being enlightened.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory

I am hiding / listening right now.
What to do with what I hear, well, that is yet to be known?

I mean on multiple threads.
…….
IBM came up with a marvelous add on socket board idea years ago. But none of the other computer manufacturers would support the idea. So each computer manufacturer wanted their own board socket.

We will see.
Either light photons
Or eyes of understanding being enlightened.

eddif

Sometimes we just need to sit and absorb. I love your hunger for truth.

 

[eddif]

3. Does Grace nullify the Law? (Romans 3:31)

Little strange but maybe to the point.

1 Timothy 5:17 kjv
17. Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Not clear yet

1 Corinthians 9:1 kjv
1. Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
2. If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
3. Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
4. Have we not power to eat and to drink?
5. Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
6. Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
7. Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8. Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9. For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10. Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12. If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

The law says not muzzle ox treading out corn.

The context areas?:
Animal husbandry
Plowman
Planter
Good church worker

The concept is a worker is worthy of his hire.

The grace seems to be Paul was not trying to get paid.
In many cases the law says the same thing as the new covenant. The physical law has to be raised from the original physical level to a higher level of importance. Before this was over it was raised from ox to apostle.
The law has to be used lawfully.
1 Timothy 1:8 kjv
8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

The ox is a clean animal
The ox chews cud
Has split hoofs
The ox has 4 stomachs
All these aspects can be explained as raised in level too.

Ever little aspect of the law can be lifted to a more spiritual level.

That is enough for now,

Mississippi redneck ( agriculture display)

eddif

 

[JLB]

Law vs. grace, which one are we under or are we under both!

The law of Moses was abolished at the cross, because it was fulfilled by Christ Jesus our Lord, having been added temporarily to the Covenant until the Seed should come; The Messiah

• The law of Moses created enmity between Jew and Gentile.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

• so as to create in Himself one new man from the two

again


And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Ephesians 2:13-14

• having nailed it to the cross.

“it” refers to something very specific… the handwriting of requirements that was against us,



By saying “against us”, Paul is specifically quoting Moses.


“Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;
Deuteronomy 31:26



Now under the New Covenant (Renewed Abrahamic Covenant) we are subject to the Law of Christ. As Moses was the mediator of that Covenant and the children of Israel were subject to (under) the laws and commandments of the law of Moses, so it is we are subject to (under) the law of Christ and Hs Commandments and Laws.

Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Galatians 6:2


There are many references in the New Testament about keeping His commandments. Keeping His commandments are the way of love.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His commandments are written on our heart, and therefore received by faith, unlike the law of Moses.






JLB

 

[stovebolts]

I posted them because they SEEM to be in conflict...
but they are not. Paul taught obedience just as Jesus did.
It's a modern day idea that all we need is faith.
Some look down at obedience as if it were not necessary.

Ahhh, gotcha! I'm a bit slow now and again lol!
Jesus starts out in Matthew 5 and his sermon ends in Matthew 7.
All through the sermon he says, "You have heard, but I say....".
It's not only about what you believe, but how that belief is lived out and put into action.

Jesus sum's his sermon up in a very deep and cautious way. In part, he teaches on this..
NIV Matthew 7:21-23

True and False Disciples​

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[stovebolts]

The law of Moses was abolished at the cross, because it was fulfilled by Christ Jesus our Lord, having been added temporarily to the Covenant until the Seed should come; The Messiah

Please know that I'm not in disagreement here, but I would like to parse this out because there is always another level.
At the time of Paul's writing, there were numerous "laws" and covenants and the Law of Moses was just one of them.
Here are three main biblical laws.
1. Noahide Laws
2. Sinia Laws
3. Law of Moses

Generally speaking, the Noahide laws are virtually unknown, and the Sinia Laws are generally clumped in with the Mosiac laws.

The Noahide Laws are the seven laws that all mankind were subject to after the flood and are associated with the universal covenant God made and set a reminder with the rainbow. This covenant is still in effect and has not been abolished. If it were, I believe we would no longer see the rainbow.

The Sinia laws are the laws God gave to Israel at Mt. Sinia and is associated with the Sinia Covenant which the Jews of that day willingly accepted. I believe it is important to note that gentiles where never under that covenant and as a result, were never subject to the laws with their associated ordinances.

The Law of Moses would include the Laws Moses himself imposed on the Israelites and are found in Deuteronomy. These Laws of Moses were combined with God's laws given at Mt. Sinai and complete the 613 laws. One law in particular which came from Moses, and not God was divorce.

NIV Matthew 9:8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

Anyway JLB, I'm just yabberiing accademics lol. Hope it brought some value to somebody.

 

[eddif]

Law vs. grace, which one are we under or are we under both! Some believe all 613 Mosaic laws were fulfilled in Christ and some only believe we only have ten of them to keep as they are separate from the other 613. Logic tells us if God loves all His creation then His grace covers everyone and all will go to heaven. It always comes down to what and how one is taught doctrine and becomes a battle field when it is debated. I would dare say there are more that have never even heard of or even taken the time to read all 613 laws to see what has actually been fulfilled in Christ then there are that have taken the time for a deeper truth. Do all of the laws only apply to that of the Hebrews or do some parts of the law apply even after grace as in keeping those certain laws as they are written on our hearts. Sometimes you just have to empty your mind of all the teachings you have ever heard on this topic of law vs. grace and go straight to the source which is the word of God to find out what He has already said.

The only laws that were done away with or fulfilled were that of the Temple and the sacrifices as the physical Temple and it's sacrifices no longer exist under grace by Christ fulfillment of them, Matthew 5:17,18. We are now that temple that the Holy Spirit dwells in, not our flesh for that will turn back to the dust of the ground and will never enter the kingdom of God, but that of our spirit making union with that of Gods Spirit through His grace that is freely given, not by works, but as a fee gift of Gods love, Mark 7:14-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:8-18.

The books of the NT are not part of the Hebrew scriptures (Torah or the Tanakh), but that of instruction of Gods righteousness as God has given first to the Hebrew a new covenant of grace and then extended His grace to those outside of Israel (Gentiles) the same free gift of His grace, Romans 15:16. When we being that of a Gentile nation partake in that of Christ life, death and resurrection our inner man (spirit, not this flesh) is renewed by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5, 6, as we are led by the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us all truths, John 14:26, but we are still under the moral laws of Gods commandments that are written upon our hearts that we need to keep until that of Christ return.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.​

for_his_glory

Romans 2:14 kjv
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which Law?

Romans 2:15 kjv
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

John 4:12 kjv
12. Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13. Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14. But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Kind of strange talk? Bubbling up. Not exactly historical.

The law placed in our hearts and minds IMHO is not the law written in stone that Moses wrote, but
Ephesians 2:15 kjv
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, somaking peace;

Commandments contained in ordinances. The real true law that was hidden begins to surface in Jew and Gentile alike.

Hearts and minds. The law placed in us by God.

The fulfilled law. The bubbling up law. The where did that come from law. That placed in our hearts and minds.

eddif