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wondering said:
Regarding separating Him,,,,
I'm on a phone....
Do you know about that heresy I mentioned?
Don't know how to link info.
NESTORIANISM I think.
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of it. But I will defend any part of it that speaks of the two different natures/forms of Jesus. One before he came from heaven, and the other after he came from heaven. This is clearly taught in Philippians 2:6-8.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I'm not aware of it. But I will defend any part of it that speaks of the two different natures/forms of Jesus. One before he came from heaven, and the other after he came from heaven. This is clearly taught in Philippians 2:6-8.
Click to expand...
I think it has to do with Jesus ON EARTH.
Google it for goodness sake!
In between operations.
 
wondering said:
No, it's the word GOD that's bothersome for the reason I've stated.
We tend to think of God Father,
And HE has no mother.

Another member suggested
Mary, the mother of God, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

Kinda long, but I like that.
Click to expand...
No.
The 2nd person of the Trinity has no beginning and no end. His earthly form does. And THAT is what she is mother of.
 
The early "reformers" believed that Mary was the mother of God.

Martin Luther
“She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." (Pelikan, J (ed), The Works of Martin Luther, Concordia: St. Louis, volume 24, 107.)

John Calvin
"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God.” (Calvin, J, Opera, Braunshweig-Berlin, 1863-1900, Volume 45, 35.)

Ulrich Zwingli
“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” (Stakemeier, E, in De Mariologia et Oecumenismo, Balic, K (ed), Rome, 1962, p.456.)

It was only later as Protestatism splintered into myriad denominations, sects ands cults that they began to deny the truhs about Mary.
 
wondering said:
The CC does not teach that Mary is to be worshipped. Only God is worshipped.

Living here and seeing what you speak of, I can say that the CC should not allow this. But it's been going on so long that it's difficult to stop the practice. The older people are used to it.

I believe this is the last generation that will be doing this.
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Since there are many, many statues of Mary throughout Christendom and Mary is prayed to by Catholics, I would call that worship.

Definition: "The most common word for “worship” literally means “bend over” or “bow down.” It describes a gesture of respect or submission to human beings, to God, or to idols." Another definition: "Worship" is reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. Clearly, Mary is worshiped.
 
Mungo said:
The early "reformers" believed that Mary was the mother of God.

Martin Luther
“She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." (Pelikan, J (ed), The Works of Martin Luther, Concordia: St. Louis, volume 24, 107.)

John Calvin
"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God.” (Calvin, J, Opera, Braunshweig-Berlin, 1863-1900, Volume 45, 35.)

Ulrich Zwingli
“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” (Stakemeier, E, in De Mariologia et Oecumenismo, Balic, K (ed), Rome, 1962, p.456.)

It was only later as Protestatism splintered into myriad denominations, sects ands cults that they began to deny the truhs about Mary.
Click to expand...
With all due respect to you, I don't care what they said.
Just because I'm not Catholic does not mean I'm Reformist.
Reformed theology has it's own problems, lol.

The time of the Protestant Reformation was a very, dark, troubled time, theologically.
It's only in these last days that people like myself are casting off that cesspool of Catholic vs. Protestant confusion and finding the truth for ourselves in the pages of our Bibles with the aid of the Holy Spirit, along with godly discussion with other believers with like-minded resistance to the theologies of misguided, but perhaps well meaning, men.
 
Last edited:
hawkman said:
Let me try an edit on this .

The Word always existed .
The 2nd Person of the Trinity always existed.
Jesus did not always exist ... He was born 2,000 years ago.
This is why He is 100% human and 100% divine.
The Word and the 2nd Person are 100% divine.

Jesus, as Jesus , did not always exist.

Not sure if I am all in on my edit .:lol
Click to expand...
Sophistry. Jesus (actually Yeshua) was the name given to the second person of the Trinity when He took on human form.
 
jaybo said:
Since there are many, many statues of Mary throughout Christendom and Mary is prayed to by Catholics, I would call that worship.
Click to expand...

So you have your own personal meaning of worship.

jaybo said:
Definition: "The most common word for “worship” literally means “bend over” or “bow down.” It describes a gesture of respect or submission to human beings, to God, or to idols." Another definition: "Worship" is reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. Clearly, Mary is worshiped.
Click to expand...

Bowing is not worship. Bowing is giving honour,

Abraham rose and bowed to the Hittites, the people of the land (Gen 23:7)
Was Abraham worship[ping the Hittites?

Then Abraham bowed down before the people of the land. (Gen 23:12)
Was Abraham worshipping the people of the land?

And Jonathan gave his weapons to his lad, and said to him, "Go and carry them to the city." And as soon as the lad had gone, David rose from beside the stone heap and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed three times; and they kissed one another, and wept with one another, until David recovered himself. (1Sam 20:40-41)
Was Jonathan worshipping David?

And they told the king, "Here is Nathan the prophet." And when he came in before the king, he bowed before the king, with his face to the ground. (1Kg 1:23)
Was Nathan worshipping the king?

So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her (1Kg 2:19)
Was King Solomon worshipping Bathsheba?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
With all due respect to you, I don't care what they said.
Just because I'm not Catholic does not mean I'm Reformist.
Reformed theology has it's own problems, lol.

The time of the Protestant Reformation was a very, dark, troubled time, theologically.
It's only in these last days that people like myself are casting off that cesspool of Catholic vs. Protestant confusion and finding the truth for ourselves in the pages of our Bibles with the aid of the Holy Spirit, along with godly discussion with other believers with like-minded resistance to the theologies of misguided, but perhaps well meaning, men.
Click to expand...
Oh I see. People like you who make up their own personal version of Christianity by discerning "their truth".
 
Mungo said:
So you do not believe that Jesus was God.
Click to expand...
He was the Word.
Mungo said:
If Jesus was not God then how could his death atone for the sins of the whole world?
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He walked among us, having all the same pressures any other man would encounter; but lived it without sin so He could fulfill the presaged perfect lamb prophesies.
Where is it prophesied that God would die for our sins?
Mungo said:
If Jesus was just a sinful man then he could not even atone for his own sins.
Click to expand...
He was not a sinful man.
He was the Word made flesh who never committed sin.
Mungo said:
You contradict scripture.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
Click to expand...
What just happened to your trinity belief?
Three in one yet each distinctive from the others?
 
WIP said:
Now you've got me confused.

22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
Matthew 1:22-23 NKJV

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1-2, 14 NKJV
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Is God in you?
(I hope you say yes)
So too was God in Jesus...God with us.
He is still "with us" in the personas of the faithful.
 
Hopeful said:
He was the Word.
Click to expand...

And the Word was God (John 1:1)
Hopeful said:
He walked among us, having all the same pressures any other man would encounter; but lived it without sin so He could fulfill the presaged perfect lamb prophesies.
Where is it prophesied that God would die for our sins?

He was not a sinful man.
He was the Word made flesh who never committed sin.

What just happened to your trinity belief?
Three in one yet each distinctive from the others?
Click to expand...
If he was born with a fallen nature how could he not sin?
Paul said "all men sinned" (Rom 5:12)
 
wondering said:
And herein lies the problem:
Because Protestants are so weary of the mother of Jesus, who is God, we are wont to give her that title.

And that leads right into debating the nature of Jesus.

I've stated why I dislike the title mother of God, but guess what, there's no way around it. Or we begin to question the very divinity of Jesus.
Click to expand...
It is only confusing if you leave out the existence of the Word.
God and the Word were one, but when the Word took on flesh they were separated in that sense of "oneness".
Jesus prayed to God, as He couldn't pray to Himself.
Jesus credited God with the miracles He did, because He couldn't credit Himself.
Jesus thanked God the Father, because He couldn't thank Himself.
Jesus didn't know the day off the end, as only the Father had that knowledge.
Jesus couldn't grant the seats on either side of Him to James and John, as He didn't have that authority.

The Father and the Son are different than the Father and the Word.

If the Word, who "was God" still existed, there would be a quadrinity instead of a trinity.
 
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