How is a biblical conflict solved?

[GodsGrace]

No, it's not heresy. It's right out of the Bible:

Philippians 2:6-8 BSB
6...existing in the form of God...

7...taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.


Two different forms. One form representing his authority and equality with God while in heaven. Another form representing his lowliness and equality with humans while on earth.

Easy question:
Was Jesus God?

 

[GodsGrace]

He surrendered his authority as God. And instead became a servant in human form.

Paul tells us to have this same mind. That of a lowly servant.

Philippians 2:5-7
5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,a

7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.

MADE IN HUMAN LIKENESS.
Jesus was God.
Or
He was a good teacher,
Or crazy.

I know we agree...just trying to make a point.

IOW
He was both human and ..........

 

[GodsGrace]

I will for as long as I can stand them, lol.

I think you'll enjoy them.

 

[GodsGrace]

'Mother of Jesus'.
I think Hopeful pointed out this proper understanding.
She is mother of his human form, not mother of his divine form that exists from eternity past.

You're separating Jesus again.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You're separating Jesus again.

You HAVE to separate the form he was in before he came from heaven and the form he was in after he came from heaven. The fact there are two different forms is clearly taught in Philippians 2:6-8. What we don't know precisely is what his form consisted of before he came from heaven. What we do know is what his different form was after he came from heaven. But the fact that we was in two distinct forms is clear.

Same Jesus. Two different forms. Highly exalted and equal with God in one form, the form of God. Lowly and submissive in another form, the form of a human.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think you'll enjoy them.

We'll see, lol.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Easy question:
Was Jesus God?

YES.

I figger any being that can make all things, visible and invisible, for himself before there are any things in existence is God. (Colossians 1:16)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So when you worship Jesus it is only because of some "kind of perceived supernatural power, authority, or deification".

For the purpose of this discussion, yes, that is the only reason I worship Jesus.

Jesus does not have actual supernatural power or authority or deity?

He has all of the above. That's why he can be, and is worshipped and obeyed. And should be.

 

[Mungo]

For the purpose of this discussion, yes, that is the only reason I worship Jesus.


He has all of the above. That's why he can be, and is worshipped and obeyed. And should be.

do you think the Catholic Church teaches that Mary has actual supernatural power or authority or deity?

If so please provide some proof.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God cannot stop being God.
When the second person of the Trinity took on human nature he did not stop being divine.
The fourth ecumenical council, at Chalcedon in 451, confessed:
Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; "like us in all things but sin". He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.
(Quoted from the Catechism of The Catholic Church para 467).

When the second person of the Trinity became flesh (Jn 1:14) the Trinity did not become a 'Duality'.

I have no problem with any of this except the phrase 'Mother of God'. She is not the mother of God. God has no beginning and no end that he should be birthed. The form of his humanity does, though. And it is that which she is mother to—his human body, not any aspect of his eternal deity whatsoever. So it is improper to say she is the Mother of God. She is mother of his human form. That's all.

And furthermore, more blessed are those who hear and obey the word of God than her! Jesus said so himself (Luke 11:28). Now, that being true, how fitting is it that you assign to me some kind of worship that you should make statues of me and bow down to me??? I would be like Peter and say, “Stand up...I am only a man myself.” Acts 10:26. I would reject that worship as wholly unfitting and I would direct it to Jesus.

 

[for_his_glory]

Still going to deny we can live without sinning?

Not going there, you have a good day.

 

[Mungo]

You HAVE to separate the form he was in before he came from heaven and the form he was in after he came from heaven. The fact there are two different forms is clearly taught in Philippians 2:6-8. What we don't know precisely is what his form consisted of before he came from heaven. What we do know is what his different form was after he came from heaven. But the fact that we was in two distinct forms is clear.

Same Jesus. Two different forms. Highly exalted and equal with God in one form, the form of God. Lowly and submissive in another form, the form of a human.

But you equating form with nature. Jesus had a divine nature as you now admit (post 287)

So if Jesus is God, and Mary is the mother of Jesus (who is God), how does that mean that saying that Mary is the mother of God is not true?

 

[GodsGrace]

YES.

I figger any being that can make all things, visible and invisible, for himself before there are any things in existence is God. (Colossians 1:16)

Regarding separating Him,,,,
I'm on a phone....
Do you know about that heresy I mentioned?
Don't know how to link info.
NESTORIANISM I think.

 

[GodsGrace]

YES.

I figger any being that can make all things, visible and invisible, for himself before there are any things in existence is God. (Colossians 1:16)

Then Mary is the mother of God.


I think.

 

[Mungo]

I have no problem with any of this except the phrase 'Mother of God'. She is not the mother of God. God has no beginning and no end that he should be birthed. The form of his humanity does, though. And it is that which she is mother to. His human body, not any aspect of his eternal deity whatsoever. So it is improper to say she is the Mother of God. She is mother of his human form. That's all.

And furthermore, more blessed are those who hear and obey the word of God than her! Jesus said so himself (Luke 11:28). Now, that being true, how fitting is it that you assign to me some kind of worship that you should make statues of me and bow down to me??? I would be like Peter and say, “Stand up...I am only a man myself.” Acts 10:26. I would reject that worship as wholly unfitting and I would direct it to Jesus.

Jesus is God .
Mary is the mother of Jesus
Therefore Mary is the mother of God.

You insult women by suggesting that a women is just a birthing agent for a body.
She is the mother of a person - a lovely little person.
Mary is the mother of a person not just a body. The mother of the second person of the Trinity.
You can add the second person of the Trinity in his incarnation if you feel better about that. But the second person of the Trinity is God in his incarnation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

do you think the Catholic Church teaches that Mary has actual supernatural power or authority or deity?

YES!

If so please provide some proof.

When you stress her supposed special, mediating, sinless life you are assigning qualities to her worthy of worship which she does not have.

So you have to decide, does Mary have a relationship with God that makes her worthy of worship, or do Catholics not worship her? No matter how much Catholics deny worshipping her, it's plainly obvious they do worship Mary...and the Pope, and various other notable Catholics (Peter rejected this worship).

Parading a person, or a statue of a person on a pedestal through a public square or the isles of a church, and bowing down to them is worship. Saying it isn't doesn't change the fact that it is. Catholics worship Mary. And that's wrong. As blessed as she is (along with the rest of us) Jesus himself set the crowd straight on this undue exaltation of Mary:

Luke 11:27-28
27...a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!”

28But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then Mary is the mother of God.


I think.

I guess the problem is in your definition of 'mother'.
Mary did not birth deity. Deity has no beginning and no end. On the other hand, humanity does. And that is what she is mother to. She is the mother of his humanness, his human form. That's all. And as blessed as that is, blessed rather are those who hear and obey God's word. The real blessing is in obeying the word of God! But last time I checked no one's making a statue of me and parading it through the streets of town and in the isles of the church.

 

[Mungo]

YES!

When you stress her supposed special, mediating, sinless life you are assigning qualities to her worthy of worship which she does not have.

Whatever Mary has is totally by the grace of God.

So you have to decide, does Mary have a relationship with God that makes her worthy of worship, or do Catholics not worship her? No matter how much Catholics deny worshipping her, it's plainly obvious they do worship Mary...and the Pope, and various other notable Catholics.

Catholics don't worship Mary in the sense you mean worship.

Parading a person, or a statue of a person on a pedestal through a public square or the isles of a church, and bowing down to them is worship. Saying it isn't doesn't change the fact that it is. Catholics worship Mary.

It's not a fact. It's your personal opinion. You provide no proof just your opinion

Bowing is not worship.

Honoring someone is not worship

And that's wrong. As blessed as she is (along with us) Jesus himself set the crowd straight on this undue exaltation of Mary:

Luke 11:27-28
27...a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!”

28But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Yes, so what?
How does that demonstrate your claims?

 

[GodsGrace]

YES!


When you stress her supposed special, mediating, sinless life you are assigning qualities to her worthy of worship which she does not have.

So you have to decide, does Mary have a relationship with God that makes her worthy of worship, or do Catholics not worship her? No matter how much Catholics deny worshipping her, it's plainly obvious they do worship Mary...and the Pope, and various other notable Catholics (Peter rejected this worship).

Parading a person, or a statue of a person on a pedestal through a public square or the isles of a church, and bowing down to them is worship. Saying it isn't doesn't change the fact that it is. Catholics worship Mary. And that's wrong. As blessed as she is (along with the rest of us) Jesus himself set the crowd straight on this undue exaltation of Mary:

Luke 11:27-28
27...a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!”

28But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

The CC does not teach that Mary is to be worshipped. Only God is worshipped.

Living here and seeing what you speak of, I can say that the CC should not allow this. But it's been going on so long that it's difficult to stop the practice. The older people are used to it.

I believe this is the last generation that will be doing this.

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess the problem is in your definition of 'mother'.
Mary did not birth deity. Deity has no beginning and no end. On the other hand, humanity does. And that is what she is mother to. She is the mother of his humanness, his human form. That's all. And as blessed as that is, blessed rather are those who hear and obey God's word. The real blessing is in obeying the word of God! But last time I checked no one's making a statue of me and parading it through the streets of town and in the isles of the church.

No, it's the word GOD that's bothersome for the reason I've stated.
We tend to think of God Father,
And HE has no mother.

Another member suggested
Mary, the mother of God, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

Kinda long, but I like that.