How is a biblical conflict solved?

[Hopeful]

What has prophecy got to do with it?

I am looking for the basis of your belief that God died for us.

1 John 2:2
and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
No mere man could do that. Only God.

Then you deny that Jesus was a man.
In saying that, you rob humanity of its ability to emulate Him.
If Jesus was something more than a man, He must have had some magic power to walk without sin.
That wasn't true then or now.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Holy Spirit would bring to mind all the true teaching they had already received. That presupposes that they had already received true teaching. But you have to get that true teaching first. You cannot generate it from your own resources. You cannot reach the truth by starting from scratch, but only by receiving it from those who have already been taught it and can pass it on. Then when you are presented with false teaching, the Holy Spirit will bring to mind the truth that you have already been taught.

This where Martin Luther and the other reformers went wrong. They thought they could reject the teaching authority of the Church and start from scratch with just the Bible.

But the Bible is the original teachings of the Apostles, lol!
Unstained and corrupted by later teachers!

And that is why Protestantism has fractured into thousands of denominations with many opposing doctrines. And this is where people still go wrong today.

Denominations exist for the same reason the Catholic denomination exists.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

20. But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all know.
Footnotes say some manuscripts say “you know everything” instead of you all know.
They know because John has taught them.

You're missing it completely. Believers have an anointing that enables them to know if what John, or any other person says to them is the truth.

You are completely missing this element of 'knowing' through the anointing of the Holy Spirit and putting the 'knowing' on what someone tells you, which, of course, for you means what the Catholic church tells you. And that is indeed what Catholics do. They rely on being told what is the truth and what is not, instead of relying on the anointing within the believer to tell them what teachings are truth and which are not. That is a formula for disaster as the history of the church has proven.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not anymore.
Frontal lobotomies they don't know they have <hee, hee> go a long way to keeping things sane around the hood, lol.
Still busy, but sane.

BTW, what's your address?
Gotta keep far away...


Go check out:
PETER WAS A POPE
CATHOLICISM

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess the problem is in your definition of 'mother'.
Mary did not birth deity. Deity has no beginning and no end. On the other hand, humanity does. And that is what she is mother to. She is the mother of his humanness, his human form. That's all. And as blessed as that is, blessed rather are those who hear and obey God's word. The real blessing is in obeying the word of God! But last time I checked no one's making a statue of me and parading it through the streets of town and in the isles of the church.

What did the Nestorian heresy teach?


Nestorianism envisages the divine Word as having associated with itself at the Incarnation a complete, independently existing man. From the orthodox point of view, Nestorianism therefore denies the reality of the Incarnation and represents Christ as a God-inspired man rather than as God-made-man.

**************************************************************************


Original Nestorianism is attested primarily by works of Nestorius, and also by other theological and historical sources that are related to his teachings in the fields of Mariology and Christology.

His theology was influenced by teachings of Theodore of Mopsuestia (d. 428), the most prominent theologian of the Antiochian School. Nestorian Mariology rejects the title Theotokos ('God-bearer') for Mary, thus emphasizing distinction between divine and human aspects of the Incarnation.

Nestorian Christology promotes the concept of a prosopic union of two natures (divine and human) in Jesus Christ,[4] thus trying to avoid and replace the concept of a hypostatic union.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorianism

 

[GodsGrace]

Since there are many, many statues of Mary throughout Christendom and Mary is prayed to by Catholics, I would call that worship.

Definition: "The most common word for “worship” literally means “bend over” or “bow down.” It describes a gesture of respect or submission to human beings, to God, or to idols." Another definition: "Worship" is reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. Clearly, Mary is worshiped.

Hi Jaybo,
I have no doubt that some Catholics worship her.
This does not mean that they're supposed to....
however I do know that Catholics love Mary and venerate her, which is allowed.
She can be adored and venerated, but not worshipped.

I think the CC was not active enough in not teaching its laity in the past, this has led to some problems
now. Difficult to backtrack.

We have to remember too, that persons here were illiterate until prety recently.
Thus we have rosary beads, stained glass windows, veneration to saints because they seem closer to us in nature,
the nativity scene, the Creed, etc. to teach people about their faith without having to actually take lessons or read the bible.

And can you imagine these persons reading the bible?
I've known illiterate persons, it would be impossible for them to understand it.

But, let's use the word WORSHIP the way that it is meant to be used by we Christians,,,
Only God can be worshipped.

 

[GodsGrace]

As does the motherhood of Mary!
She is only his mother in regard to his earthly form. That's all.
And blessed rather are those who hear and obey the word of God! (Luke 11:27-28).

And who birthed Jesus in His Godly form?
Did He have two mothers?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What did the Nestorian heresy teach?


Nestorianism envisages the divine Word as having associated with itself at the Incarnation a complete, independently existing man. From the orthodox point of view, Nestorianism therefore denies the reality of the Incarnation and represents Christ as a God-inspired man rather than as God-made-man.

**************************************************************************


Original Nestorianism is attested primarily by works of Nestorius, and also by other theological and historical sources that are related to his teachings in the fields of Mariology and Christology.

His theology was influenced by teachings of Theodore of Mopsuestia (d. 428), the most prominent theologian of the Antiochian School. Nestorian Mariology rejects the title Theotokos ('God-bearer') for Mary, thus emphasizing distinction between divine and human aspects of the Incarnation.

Nestorian Christology promotes the concept of a prosopic union of two natures (divine and human) in Jesus Christ,[4] thus trying to avoid and replace the concept of a hypostatic union.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorianism

I guess I'm not Nestorian then, because this is not what I'm saying or endorsing.

What I see in scripture is that Jesus once didn't have the form of a human body, but then underwent a morphosis and did have one. He underwent a change of nature/form, not an addition to his nature/form.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And who birthed Jesus in His Godly form?
Did He have two mothers?

I guess you just don't understand the idea of 'mother'.
There's no way she mothered/birthed Jesus the eternal one. He always was and always will be. He existed before her. His morphosis, his change, is what she mothered. That's all.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, just as written in John 1.

OK
So doesn't that make Mary the Mother of God?
I read your post 319.
You see what's happening?
We're diminishing Jesus as God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess you just don't understand the idea of 'mother'.
There's no way she mothered/birthed Jesus the eternal one. He always was and always will be. He existed before her. His morphosis, his change, is what she mothered. That's all.

I'm thinking about all this.
I still think, like I told Hopeful that we're diminishing Jesus as God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I still think, like I told @Hopeful that we're diminishing Jesus as God.

And saying a mere mortal birthed God doesn't!?

 

[Mungo]

You don't even get it!
Jesus himself was deflecting undue exaltation of Mary.

"Blessed RATHER are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” Luke 11:27

Now, given all this emphasis by the Catholic church on Mary's blessedness and, thus, the reason Catholics exalt her, let's talk about making a statue of me and parading it down the street since blessed rather are those like me who hear and obey the word of God, okay? Why not?

That falsely assumes that Mary being blessed is the only reason that Catholics venerate Mary.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That falsely assumes that Mary being blessed is the only reason that Catholics venerate Mary.

No, I understand that you give her attributes and abilities and privileges that set her apart as special and worthy of worship.

 

[Mungo]

Nice try. I didn't create those definitions. Again: "Worship" is reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. Clearly, Mary is worshiped. I don't care one whit what your personal definition is. It is reverent honor paid to a sacred personage, e.g., Mary! That is what Catholics do: they worship Mary as in "Hail Mary, mother of God, blessed art thou". "Bowing" is irrelevant.

That one definition but there others. That is a very modern Protestant definition.

Exodus 32:7-8, "The Lord said to Moses, “Go down at once! Your people, whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have acted perversely; they have been quick to turn aside from the way that I commanded them; they have cast for themselves an image of a calf and have worshiped it and sacrificed to it and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’ ” That is exactly what Catholics do with their statues of Mary!!

No it isn't.
You make false claims.

That is part of the Law of Moses, given to the Jews. It is part of Old Covenant Law.
We are not under the old Covenant but under the New Covenant.
Old Covenant Law is not applicable to Christians.

Also it is another example of taking on verse out of context
God himself ordered the making of an images

Make two cherubim of beaten gold for the two ends of the propitiatory, fastening them so that one cherub springs direct from each end. cherubim shall have their wings spread out above, covering the propitiatory with them; they shall be turned toward each other, but with their faces looking toward the propitiatory. (Ex 25:18-20)

In the sanctuary were two cherubim, each ten cubits high, made of olive wood. …….The cherubim were placed in the inmost part of the temple, with their wings spread wide, so that one wing of each cherub touched a side wall while the other wing, pointing toward the middle of the room, touched the corresponding wing of the second cherub (1Kg 6:23, 27)

The walls on all sides of both the inner and the outer rooms had carved figures of cherubim, palm trees, and open flowers (1Kg 6:29)

The sea was then cast; it was made with a circular rim, and measured ten cubits across, five in height, and thirty in circumference. Under the brim, gourds encircled it, ten to the cubit all the way around; the gourds were in two rows and were cast in one mold with the sea. This rested on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east, with their haunches all toward the centre, where the sea was set upon them. (1Kg 7:23-25)

On the surfaces of the supports and on the panels, wherever there was a clear space, cherubim, lions, and palm trees were carved, as well as wreaths all around. (1Kg 7:36)

the Lord said to Moses, “Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will recover.” Moses accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered.(Num 21:8-9)

Jesus himself is describes as the image of the invisible God

 

[Mungo]

No, I understand that you give her attributes and abilities and privileges that set her apart as special and worthy of worship.

Such as?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I still think, like I told @Hopeful that we're diminishing Jesus as God.

I don't see Jesus morphing into a different form as diminishing him. The only thing that did diminish in that morphosis is he voluntarily diminished his equality with God, refusing to exercise the power and rights of that position he surely has in order to become a faithful and merciful High Priest acquainted with the plight of mankind, and thus able to sympathize with us and help us. He surely did condescend and diminish that way. To God's glory.

 

[Mungo]

I am looking for the basis of your belief that God died for us.

I gave it you.
1 John 2:2
and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
No mere man could do that. Only God.

Then you deny that Jesus was a man.
In saying that, you rob humanity of its ability to emulate Him.
If Jesus was something more than a man, He must have had some magic power to walk without sin.
That wasn't true then or now.

Jesus was both man and God. One person, two natures.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Such as?

You think she has special pull and influence with Jesus because she was his earthly mother. And so you appeal to her in the hope that she'll use that pull and influence to persuade Jesus to come to your aid. We Protestants know that Jesus does not show favoritism this way and that we can approach him ourselves and will receive the same attention and favor as her or anybody else.

 

[Mungo]

But the Bible is the original teachings of the Apostles, lol!
Unstained and corrupted by later teachers!

The Bible is SOME of the teaching of the Apostles (and non-apostles)

Denominations exist for the same reason the Catholic denomination exists.

Catholicism is not a denominatuon.
The Catholic Church is the church founded by Jesus Christ.
Protestantism is and break away and splintering aberration.