Objections to God's Sovereignty Answered..........Some

[Iconoclast]

So have mine.

No

Why is your truth different from every other denomination?

Truth and error differ quite a bit. If a man puts a big hat on His head, and wears robes, and big jewelery and necklaces on himself, it does not make His false teaching "holy".Burning candles ,and inscense, does not make the false true.

Oh for goodness sakes I....
I FEEL means I THINK.
It has nothing to do with feelings.
It's English....
I FEEL WE SHOULD BUY A NEW HOUSE.
How is that a feeling?
Please be intellectually honest.

the rest of this post is going to be an emotional rant. You cannot really answer scripturally ,so that is pretty much what you have left. You tried a bit.

Only problem is:
It might be YOUR theology that is creating a God in your image and likeness.
Maybe WE are not loving enough and so we project onto God.
Maybe WE are not merciful enough and so we project onto God.
Maybe WE are not just and so we project onto God.

You've never explained how God could be loving and send billions of persons to hell FOR NO REASON.
You've never explained how God could be merciful and yet not save billions who might WISH TO BE SAVED.
You've never explained how God sending billions to hell FOR NO REASON is a just action.

I clearly explained every single thing you ask here. If you choose to ignore it, not read it, you do that by your own self will...which is not really free, but controled by your nature.
answer this verse right here, right now. I posted this in post 114; 1sam15:

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not;
but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
This is the God of Jn3:16...I understand and can explain both verses ,can you???
God said smite them. men...women..infant...He is holy and Just, can you say the same!
Do you deny God commanded this??? before you go on and ignore it and offer verses not realated to it, and answer us! The God of John 3:16 commanded this...smite them...even the infants, I am okay with this are you??? God always has a reason...your ignornat comments saying"for no reason" after you have been corrected ,stand as ignornant ,profane statements against the true and living God. How can you dare to post such a thing? You are suggesting a Holy God , who is perfect is not. This is horrible. read what you are posting.

And answering that we all deserve hell is no answer.
Then we should all go to hell, or we should all go to heaven.

That is why mercy...is mercy...Who said any sinner should go to heaven. Do we deserve it?? This is foolish. The wrath of God has been revealed Rom1. mankind is under God's wrath, not His love. That Love is only in Jesus, not outside of Him.18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; You are suppressing the truth of God.

This great. The problem is that Christianity existed BEFORE the confessionals, before Luther and Calvin,
and it did NOT AGREE with them, except for poor Augustine who took with him his manacaen belief system.
How could he not? Have been one for 10 years before becoming a Christian.

total rubbish..it existed with Jesus and the Apostles, stop using the dumb gnostic excuse of these anti cal websites

Who said those left behind desire to be left in sin?
Remember, God has NO REASON for choosing who will be saved and who will be damned but His own desire.
Some desire! Unjust in every sense of the word. And to think that GOD CREATED justice.
All the Mosaic laws were just and made to keep the peace between neighbors ...

Another foul unbelieving post. You accuse God of being unjust, just like paul described of those in romans 9

And what does this verse mean?

John 12:32
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

Jesus will draw ALL MEN to Himself.

Does it contradict with John 6:37?
No.

you have no idea what either verse means, they are two different things, and you cannot explain why.

The why is very important....
There must be no contradiction in the bible.

there is not, they only exist in your posts...1sam 15-Jn 3:16 explain

Then please state the reason why God chooses some for salvation and passes over others.
Thanks.

He loves them, because he loves them.Deut7 jer31;3

Good. Because I use caps a lot and not for screaming.

 

[GodsGrace]

No

Truth and error differ quite a bit. If a man puts a big hat on His head, and wears robes, and big jewelery and necklaces on himself, it does not make His false teaching "holy".Burning candles ,and inscense, does not make the false true.

the rest of this post is going to be an emotional rant. You cannot really answer scripturally ,so that is pretty much what you have left. You tried a bit.


I clearly explained every single thing you ask here. If you choose to ignore it, not read it, you do that by your own self will...which is not really free, but controled by your nature.
answer this verse right here, right now. I posted this in post 114; 1sam15:

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not;
but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
This is the God of Jn3:16...I understand and can explain both verses ,can you???
God said smite them. men...women..infant...He is holy and Just, can you say the same!
Do you deny God commanded this??? before you go on and ignore it and offer verses not realated to it, and answer us! The God of John 3:16 commanded this...smite them...even the infants, I am okay with this are you??? God always has a reason...your ignornat comments saying"for no reason" after you have been corrected ,stand as ignornant ,profane statements against the true and living God. How can you dare to post such a thing? You are suggesting a Holy God , who is perfect is not. This is horrible. read what you are posting.




That is why mercy...is mercy...Who said any sinner should go to heaven. Do we deserve it?? This is foolish. The wrath of God has been revealed Rom1. mankind is under God's wrath, not His love. That Love is only in Jesus, not outside of Him.18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; You are suppressing the truth of God.

total rubbish..it existed with Jesus and the Apostles, stop using the dumb gnostic excuse of these anti cal websites

Another foul unbelieving post. You accuse God of being unjust, just like paul described of those in romans 9

you have no idea what either verse means, they are two different things, and you cannot explain why.

there is not, they only exist in your posts...1sam 15-Jn 3:16 explain

He loves them, because he loves them.Deut7 jer31;3

Last post and then good night.
God can do what He wants to do.
He created persons and He can allow or command persons to die for reasons that He DOES explain.

It is you who changes the subject.
You do sound very emotional BTW.
Not sure why you posted John 3:16...I understand how you read it....
but, unfortunately, the rest of Christianity understands what it means, and it does NOT mean
ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE WILL BE SAVED.....DESCRIPTIVE
It means
WHOSOEVER WISHES TO BE SAVED WILL BE BY BELIEVING IN JESUS.....PRESCRIPTIVE.

 

[electedbyHim]

Last post and then good night.
God can do what He wants to do.
He created persons and He can allow or command persons to die for reasons that He DOES explain.

It is you who changes the subject.
You do sound very emotional BTW.
Not sure why you posted John 3:16...I understand how you read it....
but, unfortunately, the rest of Christianity understands what it means, and it does NOT mean
ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE WILL BE SAVED.....DESCRIPTIVE
It means
WHOSOEVER WISHES TO BE SAVED WILL BE BY BELIEVING IN JESUS.....PRESCRIPTIVE.

You have missed the point and do not understand.

Iconoclast has given you very clear answers, that are Biblical, and you will not accept them.

You truly do not understand the Reformed.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[jasonc]

Lord ,it's not we are robots in the reformed but that we have a new nature God gave that if it's truly from Him it will return the reciever to him .it draws us to Holiness.

We because we love God choose the things he wants it doesn't preclude no sin desire only that In time that grows smaller .I don't quite agree with the reformed

 

[GodsGrace]

You have missed the point and do not understand.

Iconoclast has given you very clear answers, that are Biblical, and you will not accept them.

You truly do not understand the Reformed.

Grace and peace to you.

Because the other member believes something doesn't mean anyone else has to agree.
We're just exchanging ideas here.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not;
but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

I think the important thing to remember about such seemingly harsh judgement, is that the Amalikites were being judged for something that also happened hundrefs of years before (1Sam.15:2, Exo.17).
So God gave Amalek a long time to repent before destroying him.

 

[electedbyHim]

Because the other member believes something doesn't mean anyone else has to agree.
We're just exchanging ideas here.

No.

Iconoclast is not exchanging an idea.

Iconoclast is teaching you Biblical truth that you and other members will not accept.

That is ordained by the Lord, in His time.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[electedbyHim]

I think the important thing to remember about such seemingly harsh judgement, is that the Amalikites were being judged for something that also happened hundrefs of years before (1Sam.15:2, Exo.17).
So God gave Amalek a long time to repent before destroying him.

That was a choice.

Amalek used his "free will" to sin.

Humans do have "free will", they will always choose sin.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

No.

Iconoclast is not exchanging an idea.

Iconoclast is teaching you Biblical truth that you and other members will not accept.

That is ordained by the Lord, in His time.

Grace and peace to you.

Other members and I do not accept the other member's teachings because we do not deem them to be correct.
Do you ever wonder why other Christians do not agree with you?
The reformed denomination is the only denomination that believes as you do.

 

[GodsGrace]

No.

Iconoclast is not exchanging an idea.

Iconoclast is teaching you Biblical truth that you and other members will not accept.

That is ordained by the Lord, in His time.

Grace and peace to you.

PLEASE TAG A MEMBER WHEN YOU MENTION ONE.

LIKE THIS:
wondering

Thanks.

 

[electedbyHim]

Other members and I do not accept the other member's teachings because we do not deem them to be correct.
Do you ever wonder why other Christians do not agree with you?
The reformed denomination is the only denomination that believes as you do.

What do I believe?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Iconoclast said: your a real charmer...I can ask fast freddy

Ask away. We are friends. We treat each other with respect and do not sink to the personal insults, unlike you.

She's always been pleasant with me. I don't recall any personal attacks. She address ideas.
Calling her a "snowflake" was somewhat over the line IMO.
When it comes to controversial doctrine I am with Iconoclast >95% of the time. He has an advantage as his theology is well organized and scrutinize my many people.
No fair Iconoclast ... using creeds and catechisms organized and scrutinized over 100s of years. ( humorous sarcasm)

 

[electedbyHim]

PLEASE TAG A MEMBER WHEN YOU MENTION ONE.

LIKE THIS:
wondering

Thanks.

Please do the same....

wondering said:
Because the other member believes something doesn't mean anyone else has to agree.
We're just exchanging ideas here.

Who is the other member?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[jasonc]

Other members and I do not accept the other member's teachings because we do not deem them to be correct.
Do you ever wonder why other Christians do not agree with you?
The reformed denomination is the only denomination that believes as you do.

Presbyterian,reformed Baptist, Anabaptists (older then the Roman rite and not to be considered protestants though they sound like both ) the Anabaptists subsets of primitive and missionary Baptist.

Anglican (puritan) , Quakers

 

[Fastfredy0]

Not everyone really believes it [God's sovereignty].

Generally speaking, all Christians believe God is sovereign. One has to define "God's sovereignty" in more detail to detect differences.

Example:
THE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH (Chap. 3) states: God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions. (Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; 1 John 1:5b; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5)

Now, you may have points of disagreement.

 

[jasonc]

Generally speaking, all Christians believe God is sovereign. One has to define "God's sovereignty" in more detail to detect differences.

Example:
THE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH (Chap. 3) states: God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions. (Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; 1 John 1:5b; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5)

Now, you may have points of disagreement.

Wcf doesn't word it that way .I was going to say the list of the reformed churches I posted will have minor differences

 

[electedbyHim]

Here is my definition of the Sovereignty of God.....

The Lord orchestrates everything for His glory.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

That was a choice.
Amalek used his "free will" to sin.
Humans do have "free will", they will always choose sin.

Jesus gives sinners time to repent, so people don't always choose sin.

Grace and peace to you.

Thanks electedbyhim.
Personally, I think many people in churches today don't understand how gracious it was for Jesus to endure being sinned against the was he was, without calling those sinners into judgment and having them executed.

But like Amalek, Jesus gave his tormentors time to repent, as he does all sinners.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Or that free will does not exist except in man made philosphy.

FREE WILL is rarely defined and when it is ... the definition is obtuse save for Libertarian Free Will.

Aside: I actually believe in Free Will as defined as: The ability to choose as determined by our greatest desire. (the question then is: Who/what determines our desires. For example, I know it wasn't my choice to have a depraved nature.... who ever gave it to me did much to form my desires and thus my Free Will choice.

 

[Iconoclast]

I think the important thing to remember about such seemingly harsh judgement, is that the Amalikites were being judged for something that also happened hundrefs of years before (1Sam.15:2, Exo.17).
So God gave Amalek a long time to repent before destroying him.

You are correct. I brought that up as I was being told that reformed persons do not have a real balance and of course we do not believe in a "loving" God.
So I asked if W understands the same verses here in 1 sam 15 were given by what everybody quotes as the loving God....I just got back online, so I will see if there is a response yet.
God is alwaysLongsuffering and merciful.