Sinless to be saved

[JLB]

Then you do believe we can live without sin !
You got me rejoicing now ...
It is written...“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18)

Context is king.


We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 5:18 ESV


We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. 1 John 5:18 NIV


We know that this is true because John in this same book stated this truth.


If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 1 John 5:16-17


If a brother sins he can confess his sin and be forgiven.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9

 

[Hopeful 2]

Context is king.
We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.1 John 5:18 ESV

Even though your version of the KJ bible changes the words, the meaning is the same.
Those who are born of God don't sin.

We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. 1 John 5:18 NIV

Even though your version of the KJ bible changes the words, the meaning is the same.
Anyone reborn of God does not sin.

We know that this is true because John in this same book stated this truth.
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 1 John 5:16-17

As per the verses supplied above, the sinner was not reborn of God.

If a brother sins he can confess his sin and be forgiven.

If a brother sins, his brotherhood is only familial, or national, and not of God.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Jesus' blood will only wash away the sins of those who actually repent of sin, permanently.
Then they can walk in the light...which is God in Whom is no sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Certainly true if the speaker is a sinner/unregenerated.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9

All unrighteousness !
So then we can say we have no sin !
After one's confession, and washing, by walking in the light-God, we can remain free from sin from them on.

 

[Who Me]

The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.

Interesting that like the rich young ruler you totally ignore the spiritual laws about worshipping God.
Have you never read Deut 6:Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
Or
Leviticus 19:18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

As Jesus commented in Mark 12: 28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] There is no commandment greater than these.”

32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

Point to note, sin is failing to keep these two commandments.

Who among us loves God with all of our being?

 

[JLB]

Even though your version of the KJ bible changes the words, the meaning is the same.
Those who are born of God don't sin.

You try and pit one verse against another.

This same John plainly says …

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Our physical body has sin. Whether we yield to its lustful cravings or not depends on us, whether we sow to the Spirit or sow to the flesh.


Those who are born again certainly learn the way to overcome sin and as we become more complete in Christ we certainly do not continue in sin.

However, the issue that you refuse to acknowledge or understand is that our physical body still contains sin, and we must all learn to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to the flesh.

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Your misguided understanding comes from the notion that our physical body was born again at water baptism.


So as John says, you deceive yourself thinking you are sinless.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You try and pit one verse against another.

This same John plainly says …
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Is there sin in God...No. (1John 1:5)
So those walking in God-the light cannot have any sin on them either. (1 John 1:7)

Our physical body has sin. Whether we yield to its lustful cravings or not depends on us, whether we sow to the Spirit or sow to the flesh.

Then as Jesus said, you had better cut it off and pluck it out ! (Matt 5:29-30)
By retaining something sinful, you guarantee sinful actions.
Why not just crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts ? (Gal 5:24)
Then you can be Christ's !!!
Those who retain sinful skin and bones, are not Christ's.

Those who are born again certainly learn the way to overcome sin and as we become more complete in Christ we certainly do not continue in sin.

It saddens me that you don't beleive the scripture of 1 John 3:9, 5:18, Rom 6:7-8, 18, 22; 2 Cor 5:17, 21.
And many others.
Instead, you fight to keep yourself from Godliness !

However, the issue that you refuse to acknowledge or understand is that our physical body still contains sin,

That is a devil's lie.

and we must all learn to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to the flesh.

That comes naturally, after the old man is destroyed, (Rom 6:6)

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Certainly true, when a sinner says it.
Thankfully, we can walk in God instead !

Your misguided understanding comes from the notion that our physical body was born again at water baptism.

That is what scripture says, so I can't refute it.
The old is gone, and a new creature now exists. (2 Cor 5:17)..."all things are become new".

So as John says, you deceive yourself thinking you are sinless.

I confessed and was washed by the blood of Christ. (1 John 1:9, 7)
Now I can walk in God, in Whom is no sin. (1 John 1:7, 5)

 

[JLB]

Is there sin in God...No. (1John 1:5)
So those walking in God-the light cannot have any sin on them either. (1 John 1:7)

Then as Jesus said, you had better cut it off and pluck it out ! (Matt 5:29-30)
By retaining something sinful, you guarantee sinful actions.
Why not just crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts ? (Gal 5:24)
Then you can be Christ's !!!
Those who retain sinful skin and bones, are not Christ's.

It saddens me that you don't beleive the scripture of 1 John 3:9, 5:18, Rom 6:7-8, 18, 22; 2 Cor 5:17, 21.
And many others.
Instead, you fight to keep yourself from Godliness !

That is a devil's lie.

That comes naturally, after the old man is destroyed, (Rom 6:6)

Certainly true, when a sinner says it.
Thankfully, we can walk in God instead !

That is what scripture says, so I can't refute it.
The old is gone, and a new creature now exists. (2 Cor 5:17)..."all things are become new".

I confessed and was washed by the blood of Christ. (1 John 1:9, 7)
Now I can walk in God, in Whom is no sin. (1 John 1:7, 5)

Again, all you have done is state your opinion that has come from your denominational indoctrination and you have tagged your opinion with a reference to a scripture without actually quoting a scripture.


Here is what a scripture looks like -


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8


Based on your claim of being sinless, the scriptures teach us that you have deceived yourself.

Furthermore the same scripture also teaches us the truth is not in you.


Why would anyone in their right mind ever listen to someone who has deceived themselves and the truth is not in you?

 

[KV-44-v1]

somehow accommodate sin !

Not believeing your recent teaching in no way "accomadates sin". All your teaching does is give people a FALSE sense of security. Tenchi exposes the fact that Saints are tough, but not guranteed to stay sinless.

I don't see anywhere in this verse a command from Paul to Christians to be sinlessly perfect. Instead, he implies that the believers in Corinth are in a process toward ever-greater sanctification which means, of course, that they were not already sinlessly perfect:

"Be made complete" not "already are made complete." Why enjoin Christians to this completion if they are already enjoying it? Obviously, Paul wrote this because the born-again believers at Corinth were not sinlessly perfect. And much of his two letters to the believers at Corinth make this abundantly clear. See above.

Hopeful2, your belief that "people on earth can stay sinless permanently" crumbles faster than an acid-burnt cracked stone. What true belief crumbles like this?

 

[KV-44-v1]

another strawman.

So you are not glad we can now walk in the light-God ?

 

[KV-44-v1]

Those who are born of God don't sin

We have never observed a Saint who has never sinned once in their walk with Jesus. Claim debunked.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Certainly true, when a sinner says it.

It says "we". There is absolutely no evidence thats only referring to unsaved.
Why use the word "we" and not "unsaved"?? Almost as if your teaching is, uhhh, FALSE!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Again, all you have done is state your opinion that has come from your denominational indoctrination and you have tagged your opinion with a reference to a scripture without actually quoting a scripture.

Don't you believe the scriptures I supplied ?

Here is what a scripture looks like -
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Thanks for that example of a truth regarding those who walk in darkness.
Darkness is sin. (Pro 4:19)

Based on your claim of being sinless, the scriptures teach us that you have deceived yourself.

I walk in the light, which is God in Whom is no sin.
I invite you to join us there.

Furthermore the same scripture also teaches us the truth is not in you.

Contextually, the truth is not in them who walk in sin.
The truth is in those who walk in God, the light.

Why would anyone in their right mind ever listen to someone who has deceived themselves and the truth is not in you?

I hope nobody ever heeds those who preach that there is sin in God.
By confessing, and being washed of past sins by the blood of Christ at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, one can start their walk in God, who is the light !
No sin is in here !

 

[Hopeful 2]

Not believeing your recent teaching in no way "accomadates sin". All your teaching does is give people a FALSE sense of security. Tenchi exposes the fact that Saints are tough, but not guranteed to stay sinless.

Did he also prove that God's seed can bring forth liars, thieves, and adulterers ?

Hopeful2, your belief that "people on earth can stay sinless permanently" crumbles faster than an acid-burnt cracked stone. What true belief crumbles like this?

Without faith, what can be believed ?
Faith that men cannot walk in God, who is the light, will garner a resurrection unto a second death.

 

[Hopeful 2]

another strawman.

Are you glad you cannot walk in the light ? (1 John 1:7)

 

[Hopeful 2]

We have never observed a Saint who has never sinned once in their walk with Jesus. Claim debunked.

Do you believe what Peter said in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
If you believe that men can turn from sin and have them washed away by the blood of Christ, then you must believe that men can be free of sin, at least for a while.
And if for a while, who is to say not for a long while ?
God gave us everything we may need to remain faithful to Him.
Including this promise..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Praise be to God !

 

[Hopeful 2]

It says "we". There is absolutely no evidence thats only referring to unsaved.
Why use the word "we" and not "unsaved"?? Almost as if your teaching is, uhhh, FALSE!

Isn't it also written..."If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (1 John 1:6)
John is using an A-B, A-B, A-B, style of writing that juxtaposes one view point against another in 1 John 1. (Paul uses the same technique in Rom 8)
Those opposing view points are, walking in darkness-sin, or walking in the light-God.
John shows how to recognize those who either walk in God or walk in sin, and how to identify them.
Sinners cannot say they have fellowship with God, (v6), or that they have no sin, (v8), or, as 1 John 2:3 points out, that they even know God.
Those who walk in the light-God can say yes to all those things !

 

[D-D-W]

If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.

Wrong. To be saved you must voluntarily enter the New Covenant thru the death burial and resurrection of our Lord. There is no command you are violating if you do not do that; but even if you keep every actual biblical command but do not do this, you are eternally lost.

I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.

Jacob (aka James) told us that the Law is a unit, and to fail in one part violates the whole Law:

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

So there is no "ceremonial law" apart from the rest of it. It is all one unit.

The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

There is no distinction in scripture between ceremonial, moral, and civil law. All one unit.

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,

No. Faith is hearing God and obeying HIM.

Romans 10:17 NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word** of God.
Hebrews 3:7
Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, “Today if you hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,

** Word: greek = rhema a SPOKEN (not written) word.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

I have learned the Bible's teachings about the law from a little different angle. When Jesus died on the cross, he did away with the outward, national form of the law with its penalties and requirements. When we come to true faith, we want to obey the inner principles of the law.

For example, both Jesus and Paul say that there are no more unclean foods. So what is the principle of Leviticus 11? I think that it's teaching us to root out the unclean (self-centeredness) in our lives and replace it with spiritual cleanness (God-centeredness).

The outward Sabbath regulations have been done away, but the inner principles of rest and worship on one day in seven remain.

 

[Beetow]

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

I was baptized an infant into Roman Catholicism back in 1944 and in time
completed enough catechism to achieve First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

Well; there came a day in 1968 when it occurred to me that even if I managed
to be pious enough in this life to get into Heaven by means of the commandments,
I was pretty confident I would not be able to keep up the good work for eternity.
Sooner or later I'd fall and get myself evicted.

I was thinking that if only my innermost being was like God's-- for whom keeping
the commandments comes just as natural as it comes natural for me to break them
--then I'd be sure to not only attain Heaven, but also sure to remain there forever.

Not long after; a Protestant man at work, who had been chatting with me about
Christianity, suggested I purchase a Bible of my own and read it for myself. So he
took me to a store where I selected a cloth-bound version for something like $10,
which in my Catholic mind was a bargain 'cause I was accustomed to those big
illustrated coffee table goliaths that at the time sold for around $60.

Anyway; in time, I ran across a passage in Ezekiel 36:26-27 that goes something
like this:

"I will give you a new heart with new and right desires, and I will put a new spirit
in you. I will take out your stony heart of sin and give you a new, obedient heart.
And I will put My spirit in you so you will obey My laws and do whatever I
command."

Well let me tell you; that passage really gave me a jolt because in it God promised
His people the very thing I longed for, to wit: an innermost being with divine qualities.

I was even more excited to discover that the benefit isn't restricted to the Jews, but
is also available to folks unified with Christ.

● 2Pet 1:2-4 . . Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of
God, and of Jesus our Lord, according as His divine power has given unto us all
things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that has
called us to glory and virtue: whereby are given unto us exceeding great and
precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature.
_

 

[onlysaved]

If you want to be saved, you must keep the law of God which is defined in the 66 books of the Bible.
Keeping the law of God means thinking, speaking and acting as God wants you to.
I am speaking about the moral law, not about the ceremonial law.
The moral law: Do not worship idols, do not steal, do not murder, do not wear women's clothes, do not commit fornication, do not eat blood, and many more.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus, therefore no one should obey the ceremonial law. If someone still wants to keep the ceremonial law, he has fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Faith means keeping the law,
loving God means following the commandments,
being a Christian means to imitate Jesus.

Matthew 19:16-17, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:18-20, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 3:6, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
Romans 6:1-2, "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

And yes, it's possible to keep the law of God, for Deuteronomy 30:11 says: "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach."
And yes, there were people who were perfect, for Job 1:1 says: "and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."
And why was Abraham chosen, why did God love Abraham? Genesis 26:5 says: "Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

You have heard it said "you shall not commit adultery, bur I tell you anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has committed adultery in his heart"

Jesus's comments plus your theology = exactly 0 men in heaven.
King David was both a murderer and an adulterer
"If a man says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him"


The apostle Paul wrote "For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. what a wretched man i am who will save me from this body of death"

does God want us to live perfect sinless lives? Yes! Are any of us going to? Nope. Everyone has already failed at that.
I thank God that you are wrong.

 

[onlysaved]

Yes you have to be perfectly sinless to be saved and go to Heaven.
The ONLY way to be perfectly sinless is to be forgiven of all of our sin. The only way to do that is by trusting Jesus first trusting in the work He has already done for us then the continued trusting as He transforms our lives.
This is salvation and sanctification. Sanctification is the PROCESS by which our lives are cleansed of sin.

We are already made perfect in Him even though we are undergoing the process of being perfected. A process that will not be completed until we are with Him.