Husband submitting to wife-is it OK?

[Prycejosh1987]

No it is not okay. Just as Paul said women should not be leaders over men, they should not be heads of the house. A womens attitude and personality cannot lead but supports.

 

[Elijah7777]

they should not be heads of the house

I think women should be the head of the house. That way if they get a divorce she has to pay alimony and half of her retirement to the husband.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No it is not okay. Just as Paul said women should not be leaders over men, they should not be heads of the house. A womens attitude and personality cannot lead but supports.

Then as the disciples conclude, it's better not get married at all. Contrary to popular contemporary teaching that often idealizes, romanticizes even worships marriage as a "foretaste of heaven", marriage is the hallmark of the present age. In the resurrection there'd be no marriage, because there'd be no sin, no death, no need for procreation, and no need for sexual one-flesh union, the real foretaste of the kingdom to come is celibacy.

In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. (Matt. 22:30)
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Matt. 24:38-39)

 

[Elijah7777]

Then as the disciples conclude, it's better not get married at all.

Paul said: " From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none." 1 Corinthians 7:29 It is better to be married but do not expect anything from that marriage. Act as if you were not married. Just as we should not seek to be rich or poor.
Proverbs 30:8:

"Give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the food that is my portion."

This verse expresses a desire for moderation, avoiding both extreme wealth and extreme poverty, so one does not fall into greed or desperation. Other passages also highlight the importance of generosity, humility, and reliance on God rather than material wealth.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It is better to be married but do not expect anything from that marriage. Act as if you were not married.

Just keep the marital status quo.

It is good for a man to remain as he is: Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. (1 Cor. 7:26-27)

 

[Elijah7777]

Just keep the marital status quo.

It is as if people go one way or the other. Either their marriage is the best thing that ever happened to them or the worst. For me I think of her as a room mate and that is fine because I would rather not live alone. Even if we do have to put on this show when people are around that everything is so wonderful.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It is as if people go one way or the other. Either their marriage is the best thing that ever happened to them or the worst. For me I think of her as a room mate and that is fine because I would rather not live alone. Even if we do have to put on this show when people are around that everything is so wonderful.

Marriage is not the telos of life, nor an idol to worship, nor a fix for your loneliness, nor a ticket to middle class, nor a political platform to combat progressive liberalism. Sadly, it has become all four of these in most evangelical churches.

 

[Elijah7777]

nor a ticket to middle class

It was a ticket for my wife. She makes more in a week here than she made in a month in Hong Kong.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It was a ticket for my wife. She makes more in a week here than she made in a month in Hong Kong.

Good for you, I'm not interested in your stories.

 

[Free]

Then as the disciples conclude, it's better not get married at all. Contrary to popular contemporary teaching that often idealizes, romanticizes even worships marriage as a "foretaste of heaven", marriage is the hallmark of the present age. In the resurrection there'd be no marriage, because there'd be no sin, no death, no need for procreation, and no need for sexual one-flesh union, the real foretaste of the kingdom to come is celibacy.

In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. (Matt. 22:30)
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Matt. 24:38-39)

It seems you've missed a critical teaching on marriage, which has led you to a wrong conclusion:

2Co 11:2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. (ESV)

Eph 5:31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
Eph 5:32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. (ESV)

Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; (ESV)

It's a metaphor that points to the union of Christ with the Church.

 

[Free]

Paul said: " From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none." 1 Corinthians 7:29 It is better to be married but do not expect anything from that marriage. Act as if you were not married.

This is to misunderstand Paul's argument. As he says elsewhere:

1Co 7:1 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”
1Co 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
1Co 7:3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.
1Co 7:4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. (ESV)

Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. (ESV)

Col 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them. (ESV)

If a person is married, they are to act accordingly, including loving the other and putting their needs ahead of one's own, otherwise they are in disobedience to Scripture.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's a metaphor that points to the union of Christ with the Church.

Union with Christ, not an imaginary godly spouse. What really foreshadows heaven is celibacy, as there's no marriage in heave. Marriage is a burden and a distraction, one cannot serve two masters.

 

[Elijah7777]

This is to misunderstand Paul's argument.

I am sure I do. If I had not remarried my first son may still be alive but I would not have my second son now. I talked to Paul about what he says in Romans but I never asked him personally about this chapter in Cor. Other than to read it over and over again many times and to pray for understanding.

 

[Free]

Union with Christ, not an imaginary godly spouse.

I have no idea what you're saying here.

What really foreshadows heaven is celibacy, as there's no marriage in heave.

It doesn't follow that because there is no marriage in heaven that celibacy foreshadows heaven.

Marriage is a burden and a distraction,

It's also a metaphor for Christ and the Church, and as such is beautiful and provides much fulfilment and enjoyment. It is not something everyone can handle or everyone is mature enough for.

one cannot serve two masters.

Use the Bible correctly. There is nothing about being married as serving another master.

1Co 7:28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. (ESV)

 

[Free]

I am sure I do.

I am fairly sure you don't. You said: "It is better to be married but do not expect anything from that marriage. Act as if you were not married." Not only does Paul nowhere imply that a person should "not expect anything from that marriage," but actually states that one is to expect things from that marriage.

His statement in 1 Cor. 7:29 is specific to his context. If a married person wants to use that to say that they should live as though they weren't married, then they must also not mourn, not rejoice, ignore the goods they buy, and don't have any dealings with the world (vv. 30-31).

His whole point is that the world was coming to a close--"the appointed time has grown very short"--and one should not be so attached to things that they cannot let them go. They were to live in such a way that they hold all these things loosely, not neglectfully or irreverently, but giving them to God should he decide to take those things away.

If I had not remarried my first son may still be alive but I would not have my second son now. I talked to Paul about what he says in Romans but I never asked him personally about this chapter in Cor. Other than to read it over and over again many times and to pray for understanding.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I have no idea what you're saying here.

You're fallaciously begging the question. All the verses you posted are teachings about relationship of husband and wife in marriage, that's the absolute premise. I was asking you, what about singles who don't have a spouse, how are these verses relative to them? It is you who have misunderstood Paul's argument, as 1 Cor. 7:25-40 is his advice to singles and widows, while you're spamming marriage advice.

It doesn't follow that because there is no marriage in heaven that celibacy foreshadows heaven.

I don't follow how earthly marriage foreshadows heaven, where there's no earthly marriage, and the Sadducees failed to understand that.

It's also a metaphor for Christ and the Church, and as such is beautiful and provides much fulfilment and enjoyment. It is not something everyone can handle or everyone is mature enough for.

No it's not, it brings forth trouble in the flesh, especially in the present distress. Singleness on the other hand, is a gift for those who can handle it. (Matt. 19:12)

Use the Bible correctly. There is nothing about being married as serving another master.

1Co 7:28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. (ESV)

Correctly speaking, marriage is a burden and distraction, Paul urged the church to be eschatalogically oriented, setting their mind on eternity, not the cares of this world, and the paramount of all these cares is pursing and pleasing a mate, which in perhaps nine out ten cases, is motivated by peer pressure or lustful desire, not any godly inspiration. Paul's attitude is clear, marriage is merely permitted, not recommended, preferred or celebrated.

But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none. (1 Cor. 7:29)
And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction. (1 Cor. 7:35)
So then he who gives her in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better. (1 Cor. 7:38)

 

[Free]

You're fallaciously begging the question.

How so, exactly?

All the verses you posted are teachings about relationship of husband and wife in marriage, that's the absolute premise.

All I posted to you were three passages which show that the Church is the Bride of Christ. I even said that marriage is "a metaphor that points to the union of Christ with the Church."

I was asking you, what about singles who don't have a spouse, how are these verses relative to them?

No, you never asked me about them or how those verses apply to them.

It is you who have misunderstood Paul's argument, as 1 Cor. 7:25-40 is his advice to singles and widows, while you're spamming marriage advice.

Then show exactly how I have misunderstood Paul's argument. What marriage advice am I "spamming"?

I don't follow how earthly marriage foreshadows heaven, where there's no earthly marriage, and the Sadducees failed to understand that.

Because it is a metaphor for Christ and the Church. We are the Bride prepared for Christ who will live with him forever. I gave verses which show all this.

No it's not, it brings forth trouble in the flesh, especially in the present distress.

Yes it is. I gave the verses where Paul says it is. Disagree with Paul all you want.

Singleness on the other hand, is a gift for those who can handle it. (Matt. 19:12)

For some, for those who can handle it without becoming bitter and attacking marriage every chance they get.

Correctly speaking, marriage is a burden and distraction, Paul urged the church to be eschatalogically oriented, setting their mind on eternity, not the cares of this world, and the paramount of all these cares is pursing and pleasing a mate, which in perhaps nine out ten cases, is motivated by peer pressure or lustful desire, not any godly inspiration.

I would love to see how you arrived at your statistic. How many people did you interview, in how many churches, in how many cities, in how many countries?

Paul's attitude is clear, marriage is merely permitted, not recommended, preferred or celebrated.

"Permitted, not recommended"? You hold a much too low, unbiblical view of marriage. It's not hard to see why. Marriage is a God-given gift for companionship, unity, love, and procreation.

But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none. (1 Cor. 7:29)

Ignoring the context, as I pointed out in post #95.

And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction. (1 Cor. 7:35)
So then he who gives her in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better. (1 Cor. 7:38)

What you ignore in the last verse is that "he who marries his betrothed does well."

 

[Elijah7777]

His statement in 1 Cor. 7:29

This is what he said. You are free to understand that any way you want. "29What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away."

If a married person wants to use that to say that they should live as though they weren't married, then they must also not mourn, not rejoice, ignore the goods they buy, and don't have any dealings with the world (vv. 30-31).

Yes of course, everything Paul says is true or it would not be in the Bible. 2 Peter 3:15–16, saying that Paul's letters contain "some things that are hard to understand," which some people twist to their own destruction. I know Paul himself is concerned with wanting people to understand what He says in his epistles.

Jesus tell us Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. We are told there is no marriage in Heaven. So should we not live our life that way now? But if we did we would go extinct if we all had to live and be as they are in Heaven. My wife and I get along a whole lot better as brother and sister in the Lord. I expect her to treat me at least as good as she treats her brothers.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

How so, exactly?

"Let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband" is not guaranteed for everyone, God doesn't owe everyone a spouse, nor is He obligated to bless everyone a spouse.

All I posted to you were three passages which show that the Church is the Bride of Christ. I even said that marriage is "a metaphor that points to the union of Christ with the Church."

All irrelevant, different context. I posted to you 1 Cor. 7:25-40, "concerning VIRGINS".

No, you never asked me about them or how those verses apply to them.

"It's better not get married at all” comes from Matt. 19:10 in the context of celibacy, not marriage. You changed the subject.

Then show exactly how I have misunderstood Paul's argument. What marriage advice am I "spamming"?

Again, you changed the subject from the context of celibacy in Matt. 19:10-12 to unsolicited marriage advice. Read what you've spammed yourself.

Because it is a metaphor for Christ and the Church. We are the Bride prepared for Christ who will live with him forever. I gave verses which show all this.

And I gave verses to show that earthly marriage is a distraction. Anyone who wanna be prepared for Christ should be devoted to Christ, not anybody else.

But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction. (1 Cor. 7:32-35)

Yes it is. I gave the verses where Paul says it is. Disagree with Paul all you want.

So did I. Disagree with Paul all you want.

For some, for those who can handle it without becoming bitter and attacking marriage every chance they get.

What "marriage" are you talking about exactly? Lord Jesus was attacking the Pharisee's frivolous marriage, where "it is lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason", in other words, no-fault divorce, a convenient tool for them to remarry as many times with many women as they wished without technically committing adultery. What I attack is the idealization, romanticization and corruption of marriage, not the original design of marriage. Unfortunately you don't seem to know the difference.

I would love to see how you arrived at your statistic. How many people did you interview, in how many churches, in how many cities, in how many countries?

Only God knows the heart, no statistics can faithfully and accurately reflect everyone's motive. I'm just telling you, "metaphor for Christ and the Church" is nothing but pious justification and virtue signaling for peer pressure or lustful desire. If one's determined to live with Christ forever, with undivided devotion, then that "forever" starts here and now; get married to Christ in this life, not the next.

"Permitted, not recommended"? You hold a much too low, unbiblical view of marriage. It's not hard to see why. Marriage is a God-given gift for companionship, unity, love, and procreation.

No, it's a false idol, an unrealistic expectation too heavy to bear for average people who can't afford it. My bible taught me that we're complete in marriage with Christ Jesus, not marriage with any flawed human being.

I ask you again, what "marriage" are you talking about? It's not hard for me to see why marriage for money, sex, kids, status or self-improvement is what's really unbiblical.

Ignoring the context, as I pointed out in post #95.

Says you who ignored the context of singleness in Matt. 19:10-12 and 1 Cor. 7:25-40

What you ignore in the last verse is that "he who marries his betrothed does well."

"He who does not give her in marriage does BETTER," also in the last verse.

 

[Elijah7777]

And I gave verses to show that earthly marriage is a distraction. Anyone who wanna be prepared for Christ should be devoted to Christ, not anybody else.

Without marriage, there would not be anyone to devote to anything. We would go extinct as a species. I tell my son I should never have married your mom. He tells me that if I had not married his mom, then he would not be alive.