"At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women"

reba · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

farouk said:
reba:

Interesting observation.

So, like, when women do it more than when guys do, it bothers you because of doctrinal reasons? or more for reasons of subjective taste?

Blessings.

No 'again my age' men, sailors, have tattoos LADIES dont.

I am trying to leave you alone and not be a pest.... :yes

farouk · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

reba said:
No 'again my age' men, sailors, have tattoos LADIES dont.

I am trying to leave you alone and not be a pest....

reba:

So â€” again, not to be a pest

â€” it's not for doctrinal reasons; you simply don't particularly like it ...

(Maybe I'm just extrapolating the obvious ...)

Blessings.

Jethro Bodine · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

reba said:
No 'again my age' men, sailors, have tattoos LADIES dont.

I am trying to leave you alone and not be a pest....

In case he missed it Reebs...

Farouk,

"LADIES don't"

I know 'ladies' is being deliberately redefined (for the worse) in our society, but call us old school, but LADIES do not sport tattoos like a sailor returning from sea.

Many, many woman today in the church don't seem to find Peter's words about what makes a woman attractive very believable...

"...the purity and reverence of your lives...your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in Godâ€™s sight..."

(1 Peter 3:2,4 NIV1984)

...and have caved into the world's ways of making themselves attractive.

For many of us, a tattoo, generally speaking, is still the antithesis of a quiet, and gentle, and pure, and reverent inner life.

joethemechanic · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I'm still thinking God gave us Lev 19;28 for a reason. You can't ignore it just because you think getting a tattoo makes you cool

Jethro Bodine · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

joethemechanic said:
I'm 50 and I can remember a time when any tattoo on a woman meant she was a party girl. Even in the 80's and into the 90's it was a pretty good indication that she liked to "party"

I've been married for thirty years (today as a matter of fact), so I haven't been in the dating game for that long, but even back in 1999, I think it was, a younger co-worker told me you can tell what kind of girl a girl is by if she has a tattoo on her ankle. It came up because a seemingly 'good' girl in the office had what at that time was the popular lizard on the ankle. I was oblivious to what it meant. He set me straight.

farouk · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Jethro Bodine said:
I've been married for thirty years (today as a matter of fact), so I haven't been in the dating game for that long, but even back in 1999, I think it was, a younger co-worker told me you can tell what kind of girl a girl is by if she has a tattoo on her ankle. It came up because a seemingly 'good' girl in the office had what at that time was the popular lizard on the ankle. I was oblivious to what it meant. He set me straight.

Jethro:

I going to take time out of this thread to say to you guys:

Warm Congratulations to you guys on your 30th anniversary today! the Lord richly bless you both!

reba · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

farouk said:
reba:

So â€” again, not to be a pest â€” it's not for doctrinal reasons; you simply don't particularly like it ...

(Maybe I'm just extrapolating the obvious ...)

Blessings.

It is some of both.. i see the double standard, i love shrimp and lobster.

Ladies dont, and yet i know many do get tatts...

I want to say what is wrong with the way the Lord made you? Then i'll go put on my lipstick ... I do not colour my hair.... these white and grays are earned...

farouk · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

reba:

reba said:
It is some of both.. i see the double standard, i love shrimp and lobster.

Ladies dont, and yet i know many do get tatts...

Ironic, isn't it?

reba said:
I want to say what is wrong with the way the Lord made you? Then i'll go put on my lipstick ... I do not colour my hair.... these white and grays are earned...

Ironic, isn't it?

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow :yes

; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Interesting that you should mention both lipstick and tattoos in the same context. The wide use of both lipstick and tattoos by women is historically tied up with the Woman Suffrage and women’s rights movements.

(From a paper by Sarah Schaffer, Harvard Law School, 2006, [leda.law.harvard.edu] )

“Due to the endorsement of leading suffragettes, lipstick more specifically symbolized female emancipation. Leaders such as Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Charlotte Perkins Gilman trumpeted the wearing of lip rouge as an emblem of women’s emancipation, and incorporated its use into the 1912 New York Suffragette Rally. Thereafter, suffragettes wore a particularly noticeable shade of red lip rouge as part of standard rally procedure.”

It’s interesting also that during the Seneca Falls Convention of 1848 on women’s rights, leading emancipation campaigner Elizabeth Cady Stanton actually received a tattoo from fellow campaigner Lucretia Mott:

(From: groupon.com : )

“Elizabeth Cady Stanton— Suffragette, Abolitionist…During the first Women's Rights Convention in Seneca Falls, New York, ... Stanton had fellow conventioneer Lucretia Mott give her a ..tattoo.”

In terms of their historic significance also, in connection with the various professional and social advances made by women from the time of the Seneca Falls Convention onwards, opportunities for being tattooed are among many of these. A reviewer has written:

(From a ‘123helpme.com’ review of: ‘Lerner, Gerda. “The Meanings of Seneca Falls, 1848-1998.” Women’s America: Refocusing the Past. Ed. Linda K. Kerber. New York: Oxford University Press, 1995)

“Today, women have many professions that seemed unimaginable at the time. There are now women’s athletes, politicians, teachers, doctors, female police, fire officers, and military personnel, all of which are accepted without question. These professions would not even be considered in the times of Elizabeth Stanton. Also, women are allowed to dress as they want, have equal guardianship of the children, file for divorce, drive, and even get tattoos.”

Publicity for the Jodi Solomon Speaker Bureau has noted the great increase tattoos among women in the immediate years following the coming of Woman Suffrage:

From: jodisolomonspeakers,com:

“Journalist and author Margot Mifflin takes you on a fascinating excursion .. back to the 19th century. Drawing from the research that went into her critically acclaimed book she shows how women's interest in tattoo surged in the suffragist '20s..”

I guess it’s an interesting two cents’ re the subject’s historical background.

Blessings.

24Fanatic · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Okay, I understand if people personally don't like tattoos, but why are so many quoting scriptures that have to do with Old Testament law? As New Testament (New Covenant) believers and followers of Christ, we have been released from the law, as stated in Romans 7:1-6 (NIV):
7 Do you not know, brothers and sisters —for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

As our old, sinful, B.C. selves, we were married to the law, but when we are reborn in Christ, the old man dies, and we become a new creature. Not a new version of our old selves, but completely new. All marriages end at death, so since the old, sinful us is dead, our marriage to the law has ended, so we are married to Jesus Christ himself. Since we are now in Christ, that means we are now under grace instead of being under the law, as described in Romans 6:1-13

6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin — 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. 

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

If we're under grace, why would we choose to continue to try to live by and fulfill the law? That would be like going to your ex husband's (or ex wife's) house after you leave work to serve him (or her), and explaining to your current husband (or wife) that it makes sense for you to do so. I'm thinking that wouldn't go very well for any of us. So I gotta ask, how must Jesus feel when we do this?

This all came to mind as I was listening to a sermon at work today. To those who are interested, here is the link for the video. The entire series is amazing, but this one in particular really caught my attention.

I tried to post a direct link, but it doesn't work, so...
Click the link below, then click Browse by Series Name, then click Overcome...By Grace, and then click the sermon title "The Marriage of Grace."

http://gatewaypeople.com/sermons

joethemechanic · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

24Fanatic said:
Any reputable tattoo shop has extremely stringent rules and guidelines they have to adhere to regarding cleanliness and biological waste. Some that I've been to are cleaner than hospitals I've seen. Piercing studios are the same way. The spread of disease is a non argument with regards to tattoos and piercing, unless you have a habit of going to back alley underground shops or someone's garage to have such work done.

Sent from my iPhone to the interwebs and straight to your brain using Tapatalk

Some things like MRSA are hard to control even in a hospital setting. Also there are very few regulations over tattoo parlors. Not to mention very little enforcement

24Fanatic · Jun 27, 2012

joethemechanic said:
Some things like MRSA are hard to control even in a hospital setting. Also there are very few regulations over tattoo parlors. Not to mention very little enforcement

Yeah, but that's all right, we could be hit by a giant asteroid at any time.

Sent from my iPhone to the interwebs and straight to your brain using Tapatalk

joethemechanic · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I can't do anything about an asteroid, but I can control my exposure to infectious diseases by not getting a tattoo.

Although in a way tattoos on women are a good thing. When you see them you know they "ain't the marryin`kind". It's kinda like a self imposed scarlet letter

farouk · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

tandemcpl said:
Good morning Jethro,
<o</o
From where I sit, the time has already come where tattoos are no longer associated with a sinful lifestyle.
<o</o
I think that today, many people get tattoos to permanently honor a loved one or to remember a significant emotional event in their life. For our 30th anniversary, my wife and I got each other tattoos. The tattoo I got is honoring my wife and the one she got has our childrenâ€™s names on it.
<o</o
Be blessed.
<o</o
Toby
<o</o
Oh, by the way, both of us are in our mid to late 50â€™s

joethemechanic said:
.. Although in a way tattoos on women are a good thing. When you see them you know they "ain't the marryin`kind". It's kinda like a self imposed scarlet letter

joe:

Particularly after reading tandemplc's post, I think your statement here, joe, is uncalled for.

God bless Jethro and his wife, and tandemplc and his wife.

24Fanatic · Jun 27, 2012

farouk said:
joe:

Particularly after reading tandemplc's post, I think your statement here, joe, is uncalled for.

God bless Jethro and his wife, and tandemplc and his wife.

Farouk, I agree.

Joe, after seeing several posts, both in this thread and elsewhere, I think I smell a troll...

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farouk · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

24Fanatic said:
Any reputable tattoo shop has extremely stringent rules and guidelines they have to adhere to regarding cleanliness and biological waste. Some that I've been to are cleaner than hospitals I've seen. Piercing studios are the same way. The spread of disease is a non argument with regards to tattoos and piercing, unless you have a habit of going to back alley underground shops or someone's garage to have such work done.

Sent from my iPhone to the interwebs and straight to your brain using Tapatalk

24Fanatic:

There have been great improvements in tattoo parlor conditions in recent decades and years. As a rule, tattooists often actually want more regulation.

And with the great numbers of women who feel the need for tattoo services, it's sheer good business practice for tattoo parlor owners â€” increasing numbers of whom are women also â€” to have clean, hygienic and welcoming parlor environments.

I also think that the whole hygiene and cleanliness area is indeed one in which Christian tattooists have every opportunity to try to excel.

Blessings.

Mike · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I've been consistent with my objection to tattoos mostly for personal taste reasons. I agree with 24's take on our freedom in Christ. In all my objections, farouk has always taken them cordially. And that can't be easy with some comments he takes. 24 is following suit. I appreciate that, guys.

Joe, that last comment about the scarlet letter was pushing it a bit. Please, the participants in this thread are our brothers and sisters in Christ. Let's try to be considerate with the understanding that tattoos are not going to send anyone to hell (assuming they're not showing the evil of one's heart).

What I'm asking is that we participate with gentleness and respect.

Thanks you!

alexlove · Jun 27, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Kumi Ori said:
According to Torah the only tattoos forbidden are ones with the names of the dead. Commonly known as a 'memory tatt'' where one marks his or her body with the name of a dead loved one for example.

since we dont live according to the torrah anymore i would assume that this no longer matters?

farouk · Jun 28, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

handy said:
This is a totally different thing than a modest tattoo of a butterfly on a lower calf.

handy:

Yes, I agree about the modest nature of a tattoo in the design and placement such as you describe.

Re. the design that you mention, this is from an article:

"The butterfly symbolizes Christ’s resurrection and as butterflies have always had close connotations with rebirth in any tattoo design, these look quite beautiful and are also highly symbolic when used in Christian tattoos for women." (from 'womenstattoos.org')

It is clear that getting tattoos in the design and placement as you describe can be modest and wholesome for women if they decide to do it.

Blessings.

jasoncran · Jun 28, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

revalant question because i know some christian teen or young adult has done this. tats near the reproductive organ. yay or nay.

reba · Jun 28, 2012

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Thank you Farouk, I have been polite but showed my general disapproval of something you do. You have remained pleasant! Nice to see it can be done! :clap

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