Death or Hell

ProphetMark

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Is the punishment for sin death or Hell?
If it's death, why do christians still die?
If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.
 
Is the punishment for sin death or Hell?
If it's death, why do christians still die?
If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.

Depends on whether you think God sends people to hell

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Is the punishment for sin death or Hell?
If it's death, why do christians still die?
If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.
Would it be fair to say that you don't agree with either view? There are those who can scripturally support annihilationism and those who can scripturally support eternal punishment. You don't seem to agree with either view.

How about telling us what YOU believe.
 
Is the punishment for sin death or Hell?
If it's death, why do christians still die?
If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.

Hello ProphetMark,

Based on your statement. I can tell you haven't read the Bible. To say it plainly, we die because of the sin passed down from Adam. If our sins aren't paid for, then we are judged fairly and go directly to a burning lake of fire forever and ever. Since Jesus was God, and He suffered the wrath of the Father in our place, God has scene fit to raise Jesus from the dead, and if we repent and put our faith in Him, then we shall be raised from the dead to be with God forever and ever. Either way, after these sin tainted bodies die, we will be raised again to pay for our sins or to enjoy God.

- Davies

John 5:29

New King James Version (NKJV)

29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.


Make sure you don't make the mistake of believing you can earn your salvation by what you do. I can point to many Scriptures that tell us justification is by faith alone. I present one here:



Romans 5:18-19

New King James Version (NKJV)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.


It's strange I'd be telling a prophet this.


- Davies
 
Is the punishment for sin death or Hell?
If it's death, why do christians still die?
If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.


Ah, pointing out the flaws in the Penal mdoel of the Atonement.
 
Hello ProphetMark,

Based on your statement. I can tell you haven't read the Bible. To say it plainly, we die because of the sin passed down from Adam. If our sins aren't paid for, then we are judged fairly and go directly to a burning lake of fire forever and ever. Since Jesus was God, and He suffered the wrath of the Father in our place, God has scene fit to raise Jesus from the dead, and if we repent and put our faith in Him, then we shall be raised from the dead to be with God forever and ever. Either way, after these sin tainted bodies die, we will be raised again to pay for our sins or to enjoy God.

- Davies

John 5:29

New King James Version (NKJV)

29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

If your sins were paid for what is there to forgive?


Make sure you don't make the mistake of believing you can earn your salvation by what you do. I can point to many Scriptures that tell us justification is by faith alone.

Actually, that can't be done becasue there are none. The only mention of faith alone in the Scriptures says that a man is "NOT" justified by faith alone.



I present one here:


Romans 5:18-19
New King James Version (NKJV)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.


It's strange I'd be telling a prophet this.


- Davies

There's no mention of faith in this passage.

How does this teach that men are judged for Adams sins?
 
Is the punishment for sin death or Hell?
If it's death, why do christians still die?
If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.


Greetings to you this evening in the Lord Jesus Christ

ProphetMark -

If it's death, why do christians still die?

I'm not sure of any Scripture that says when we become "Christians" we will not die. But I am familiar with this passage: Hebrews 9:27

If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.

This wasn't asked as a question but rather it is an opinion of yours and therefore I will ask that you point to the Scripture you reference this from so I may study this :study in more detail before I provide you an accurate reply

LJ
 
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When you were born into this world you were a sinner because of what Adam did. When you became a born again christian and believe that Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and God raised his Son Jesus from the dead you became the righteousness of Christ by faith and granted guaranteed eternal salvation. The Holy Spirit entered you to guide you and help you. You should sin less. For sin shall no longer have dominion over you; you are no longer under the law of sin, but under grace. This doesn't give you a license to be ruled by sin and controlled by sin. Your salvation comes into questioned when you are ruled by and controlled by sin. You didn't believe what you said in your heart. It is great to know that Jesus came into this world to fix what Adam did!
 
When you were born into this world you were a sinner because of what Adam did. When you became a born again christian and believe that Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and God raised his Son Jesus from the dead you became the righteousness of Christ by faith and granted guaranteed eternal salvation. The Holy Spirit entered you to guide you and help you. You should sin less. For sin shall no longer have dominion over you; you are no longer under the law of sin, but under grace. This doesn't give you a license to be ruled by sin and controlled by sin. Your salvation comes into questioned when you are ruled by and controlled by sin. You didn't believe what you said in your heart. It is great to know that Jesus came into this world to fix what Adam did!


If you say a person is born a sinner you'll have a problem with Paul's words in Hebrews.

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.​
17 Therefore,in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Heb 2:14-17 NKJ)

Paul said Christ was made like His brethren in "all things." If Christ was made like man in all things then man couldn't have been born a sinner because that would have to mean that Christ was and we know He was without sin.
 
If you say a person is born a sinner you'll have a problem with Paul's words in Hebrews.

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.​
17 Therefore,in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Heb 2:14-17 NKJ)

Paul said Christ was made like His brethren in "all things." If Christ was made like man in all things then man couldn't have been born a sinner because that would have to mean that Christ was and we know He was without sin.

Butch5 -

Greetings to you tonight in the love of Jesus Christ

Did you happen to take into account the virgin birth? Which was not the seed of Adam but of Adam through the womb of a woman who bore flesh and blood..

Please read 1 John 1:8
 
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If you say a person is born a sinner you'll have a problem with Paul's words in Hebrews.

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.​
17 Therefore,in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Heb 2:14-17 NKJ)

Paul said Christ was made like His brethren in "all things." If Christ was made like man in all things then man couldn't have been born a sinner because that would have to mean that Christ was and we know He was without sin.

If you are a christian please enroll at your church bible study group to understand the scriptures. If you are a non christian than these are the beliefs you will continue to have.
 
I'm not sure of any Scripture that says when we become "Christians" we will not die. But I am familiar with this passage: Hebrews 9:27
LJ

Hi Atonement,

Here is a Scripture that indicates we, as believers, will never die.
John 11:26

New King James Version (NKJV)

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.

It's obvious that Jesus wasn't talking about the death of our bodies, but of our souls/spirits.

- Davies
 
When you were born into this world you were a sinner because of what Adam did. When you became a born again christian and believe that Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and God raised his Son Jesus from the dead you became the righteousness of Christ by faith and granted guaranteed eternal salvation. The Holy Spirit entered you to guide you and help you. You should sin less. For sin shall no longer have dominion over you; you are no longer under the law of sin, but under grace. This doesn't give you a license to be ruled by sin and controlled by sin. Your salvation comes into questioned when you are ruled by and controlled by sin. You didn't believe what you said in your heart. It is great to know that Jesus came into this world to fix what Adam did!

God did say that He was the only one that was good! Well said iLOVE!

- Davies
 
Hi Butch5,

If your sins were paid for what is there to forgive?

Once Jesus' righteousness is imputed to your account, there is nothing left to forgive.

Actually, that can't be done becasue there are none. The only mention of faith alone in the Scriptures says that a man is "NOT" justified by faith alone.
Butch5, you should know better than that.

There's no mention of faith in this passage.
You're right. There is no mention of faith in this passage, but if you don't believe it, then a person will trust in his own righteousness.

How does this teach that men are judged for Adams sins?

You know as well as I do that death reigns through sin. Adam's nature was passed down to his children, no? Adam was our representative in the Garden.
Romans 5:14

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


- Davies
 
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Is the punishment for sin death or Hell?
If it's death, why do christians still die?
If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.

The penalty for sin is the death of the soul,in the lake of fire,which is the 2nd death...All shall die of the flesh........
 
Is the punishment for sin death or Hell?
If it's death, why do christians still die?
If it's (an eternity in) Hell, then Jesus hasn't taken the punishment for us.

I read a verse that said that hell is death, never being resurrected. Story is that some will reside in heaven and some will reside in paradise.
 
Originally Posted By Butch5,

If you say a person is born a sinner you'll have a problem with Paul's words in Hebrews.

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
17 Therefore,in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Heb 2:14-17 NKJ)

Paul said Christ was made like His brethren in "all things." If Christ was made like man in all things then man couldn't have been born a sinner because that would have to mean that Christ was and we know He was without sin.

You have things backwards Butch.


Hebrews 2:14 "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil."

Hebrews 2:14 (cited above), tells us that "as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He Himself took part of the same [flesh and blood]." If it had been any other type of flesh and blood Christ could not have identified with "the children" and His sacrifice would have not been for sins committed in "the same...flesh and blood."

In the sense that Christ was "without sin" He was unlike us. But in the sense that He "took part of the same...sinful...flesh and blood," He was exactly like us.


2 Corinthians 5:16 "So that we henceforth have known no one according to the flesh, and even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him no more;

2 Corinthians 5:21 "for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He made Him sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him."


Christ, because He was conceived of the Holy Spirit from His mother's womb, is the only person in history who has never sinned. Yet "He made Him sin, who did not know sin" that we, who all have sinned, "may become the righteousness of God in Him."

Christ was "the same...flesh and blood... as the children" who are his own brothers and sisters who also struggle against "the same...flesh and blood" Christ struggled with "yet without sin." Christ was no less the son of Adam, the Son of Man, than are you and I. It was only His Father in Him that kept Him from sinning in His every action, in spite of the fact that he too was "shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin."
 
You have things backwards Butch.


Hebrews 2:14 "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil."

Hebrews 2:14 (cited above), tells us that "as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He Himself took part of the same [flesh and blood]." If it had been any other type of flesh and blood Christ could not have identified with "the children" and His sacrifice would have not been for sins committed in "the same...flesh and blood."

In the sense that Christ was "without sin" He was unlike us. But in the sense that He "took part of the same...sinful...flesh and blood," He was exactly like us.


2 Corinthians 5:16 "So that we henceforth have known no one according to the flesh, and even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him no more;

2 Corinthians 5:21 "for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He made Him sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him."

Christ, because He was conceived of the Holy Spirit from His mother's womb, is the only person in history who has never sinned. Yet "He made Him sin, who did not know sin" that we, who all have sinned, "may become the righteousness of God in Him."

Christ was "the same...flesh and blood... as the children" who are his own brothers and sisters who also struggle against "the same...flesh and blood" Christ struggled with "yet without sin." Christ was no less the son of Adam, the Son of Man, than are you and I. It was only His Father in Him that kept Him from sinning in His every action, in spite of the fact that he too was "shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin."

Joh 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He had real flesh, blood and bone, but NO SIN was found in Him, until He took ours upon the Cross!

Joh 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

The Lord said that satan and sin had NO PLACE in Him!

 
If you say a person is born a sinner you'll have a problem with Paul's words in Hebrews.

Uh, no. We know this about the 'wicked.'

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Kinda settles the 'original sin' issue. All mankind fit the mold, save One.

Paul said Christ was made like His brethren in "all things." If Christ was made like man in all things then man couldn't have been born a sinner because that would have to mean that Christ was and we know He was without sin.

There is quite a LARGE caveat to that matter that does in fact 'differentiate' God in Christ from 'all other' people:

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Many think that because Jesus was in all points tempted 'as we are' that means Jesus had evil sinning thoughts. That was not the case.

We 'listen' to Him because His Words are PURE and UNTAINTED Words of God, contrary to the mucky muck in our own minds and hearts that we all have to deal with.

s
 
Many scriptures depict hell as fire and brimstone burning for eternity, but none of us actually knows what it will look like or feel to be cast there. In my own minds eye I see hell as a place where those who have rejected God, whether they be good or bad people, burning in a torment (fire and brimstone could be a metaphor for torment) of having to see those who have heard the call of God and have accepted Him and now live in a place of paradise with all the fullness of God in all His glory. No more tears, no more hurts, pain sickness, etc, etc. Those in hell are outside the realm of God continuing in all their sin, sickness, hurts, pain tears, etc. etc., but can see those who are in the glory of the Lord like looking through a window and wanting what others have, but will never have it and this is their torment for eternity as they are constantly consumed with the fire that burns in their souls for what they have rejected and now to late to receive.

God said that he would that none should perish, but those who have rejected God and His word are those who will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity by their own choice, even if they do not believe in Heaven or Hell, we believe because we know that Gods word is truth and does not come back void in our lives.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 and he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 and the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
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