“The Romans Road†has a disastrous fork in the road!

[George Muller]

Who is Christ? Is it the concern of God the Father that we know the Jesus of history? Do you think eternal salvation rests upon knowledge of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who was nailed to a cross?

Again, you are having a difficult time with this because you are trying to turn this into the ordinary means of salvation, when it is not. It is an exception.

So the ones who are saved through the blood of the Lamb and backslide are no longer saved.
And those who are good people will be saved without the blood of the Lamb even though they worship false gods, and have not repented of sinning against the Father.

SALVATION BY HOW GOOD YOU ARE = SALVATION BY WORKS

I will have to try to find it but I'm pretty sure there is a scripture that says ALL people will have a chance to accept Jesus and His salvation. I don't know how He will or has accomplished done this but He does, I think.

Exactly! Some would grant salvation to those who reject and defame Christ, but would condemn those who Christ has washed in His Blood. This is how twisted some had made the gospel.

 

[Deborah13]

Paul said we are MORE guilty than the Jews because we have the Holy Spirit to
guide us into all truth, etc.,

Scripture please. Thanks

 

[George Muller]

Who said the theoretical person being talked about here has rejected Christ? This person has never heard the name of Christ, nor knows about the law of Moses.

No that is not what was mentioned, read the post. You also defended this thought that muslims could be saved while they reject Christ. Now you want to add these conditions and explain away what you have tried to defend? That is just dishonest.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Sorry your universal salvation for "non-believers" and condemnation of "believers" is not biblical.

 

[francisdesales]

As usual, you are not representing what I believe, or what I said...

I quoted 'your statement' and said that is also what Messianic christians claim.

Is your claim 'more right' than theirs?

?

Not interested... Maybe you can speak to a Moderator on why you feel compelled to bother me. I have already said I am not being drawn into your little flame war games...

I have said many times I believe people in your 'sect' are saved. That's a flame now?

LOL X 10 for that kind of SPIN.

I also understand that people like to pump their systems without having to answer for anything.

s

You are purposely posting inflammatory lies about what I believe by twisting what I said or what the Catholic Church teaches.

So yea, it's an pitiful attempt to get me to react to your trolling.

What part of "if I want your opinion, I'll ask for it" don't you get. Leave me alone, please. I am not interested in dealing with you.

 

[francisdesales]

Who is Christ? Do you think eternal salvation rests upon knowledge of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who was nailed to a cross?

YES in absolute terms.
Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Nowhere does John 3 speak about the ignorant. It speaks of those who believe and those who reject. The ignorant are another class of persons whom God will judge based upon His values being upheld, values written in the hearts of men/women. Any obedience by such "pagans" can only be attributed to the Spirit of God. Those who love are of God.

George, WHY do you insist on resisting God's sovereign ability to allow people into heaven that do not fit your talking points?

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Who is Christ? Do you think eternal salvation rests upon knowledge of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who was nailed to a cross?

YES in absolute terms.

Stated differently, John 3.16.

Does it say that anyone who is ignorant about the Christ will burn in hell forever in John 3?

 

[francisdesales]

Who is Christ? Is it the concern of God the Father that we know the Jesus of history? Do you think eternal salvation rests upon knowledge of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who was nailed to a cross?

Again, you are having a difficult time with this because you are trying to turn this into the ordinary means of salvation, when it is not. It is an exception.

So the ones who are saved through the blood of the Lamb and backslide are no longer saved.
And those who are good people will be saved without the blood of the Lamb even though they worship false gods, and have not repented of sinning against the Father.

SALVATION BY HOW GOOD YOU ARE = SALVATION BY WORKS

I will have to try to find it but I'm pretty sure there is a scripture that says ALL people will have a chance to accept Jesus and His salvation. I don't know how He will or has accomplished done this but He does, I think.

I am about to pull my hair out....!!!! :crazy

Salvation by works = salvation by one's own ability. It is a wage paid for what one does without aid. Romans 4:4. Who here is making that statement?

Has any OSAS person read Romans 2??? WHO is the person going to eternal rewards? Is faith in the historical figure of Jesus of Nazareth mentioned?

WHY are these people with an unwritten law obeying them and going to heaven??? Because they earned it without the gift of God's Spirit? :tongue How could it, if HE, the SPIRIT OF GOD WROTE IT THERE HIMSELF!!!

Come on, let's all sit down and read Romans 8. WHO is responsible for enabling us or ANYONE to live a life of the SPIRIT vs. the FLESH?

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Who is Christ? Is it the concern of God the Father that we know the Jesus of history? Do you think eternal salvation rests upon knowledge of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who was nailed to a cross?

Again, you are having a difficult time with this because you are trying to turn this into the ordinary means of salvation, when it is not. It is an exception.

So the ones who are saved through the blood of the Lamb and backslide are no longer saved.
And those who are good people will be saved without the blood of the Lamb even though they worship false gods, and have not repented of sinning against the Father.

SALVATION BY HOW GOOD YOU ARE = SALVATION BY WORKS

I will have to try to find it but I'm pretty sure there is a scripture that says ALL people will have a chance to accept Jesus and His salvation. I don't know how He will or has accomplished done this but He does, I think.

Exactly! Some would grant salvation to those who reject and defame Christ, but would condemn those who Christ has washed in His Blood. This is how twisted some had made the gospel.

George, you need to cool off. No one here is condemning OSAS people. Get a grip. No need for dramatics.

 

[francisdesales]

Who said the theoretical person being talked about here has rejected Christ? This person has never heard the name of Christ, nor knows about the law of Moses.

No that is not what was mentioned, read the post. You also defended this thought that muslims could be saved while they reject Christ. Now you want to add these conditions and explain away what you have tried to defend? That is just dishonest.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Sorry your universal salvation for "non-believers" and condemnation of "believers" is not biblical.

NO ONE HAS SAID EITHER.

 

[George Muller]

Well I will let it go but all believers should consider that some would grant salvation to those who reject Christ, of course they will dance around this with word games, and find reasons and conditions to cause the believers in Christ to be under these legalistic and religious works to earn what God only gives freely by faith. Now I am ready to leave the issue, but I will not respond nor take notice of those who call themselves "Christians" and attempt to teach open heresy.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[Deborah13]

Exactly! Some would grant salvation to those who reject and defame Christ, but would condemn those who Christ has washed in His Blood. This is how twisted some had made the gospel.

How about the one below, this one is interesting, too.
I'm starting not to take this one seriously at all. Something isn't right with this picture ?

The wrong fork goes to a wide gate and a broad way, which leads to Hell.
This refers to believing in false doctrine such as OSAS,

So all the faithful Christians who believe in OSAS are now condemned to Hell.

:naughty : Someone should be embarrassed, but probably won't be..

 

[gr8grace]

Well I will let it go but all believers should consider that some would grant salvation to those who reject Christ, of course they will dance around this with word games, and find reasons and conditions to cause the believers in Christ to be under these legalistic and religious works to earn what God only gives freely by faith. Now I am ready to leave the issue, but I will not respond nor take notice of those who call themselves "Christians" and attempt to teach open heresy.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

They are not going to convince me or you, no need to worry there if we consistently study. We do open ourselves to their deception if we do not study. Its the unbelievers that we need to think about and the Christians that do not study. Just jump in every once and a while, offer the truth and the Lord will lead those that Want the real truth.

John 7:17-18~~17"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or [whether] I speak from Myself. 18"He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Faith alone in Christ alone speaks of Christ alone. ANYTHING else is speaking of man and his own glory.

 

[George Muller]

Exactly! Some would grant salvation to those who reject and defame Christ, but would condemn those who Christ has washed in His Blood. This is how twisted some had made the gospel.

How about the one below, this one is interesting, too.
I'm starting not to take this one seriously at all. Something isn't right with this picture ?

The wrong fork goes to a wide gate and a broad way, which leads to Hell.
This refers to believing in false doctrine such as OSAS,

So all the faithful Christians who believe in OSAS are now condemned to Hell.

:naughty : Someone should be embarrassed, but probably won't be..

Yep, smaller has them nailed on this one? They demand one doubt as a proof of belief.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Who is Christ? Is it the concern of God the Father that we know the Jesus of history? Do you think eternal salvation rests upon knowledge of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who was nailed to a cross?

Again, you are having a difficult time with this because you are trying to turn this into the ordinary means of salvation, when it is not. It is an exception.

So the ones who are saved through the blood of the Lamb and backslide are no longer saved.
And those who are good people will be saved without the blood of the Lamb even though they worship false gods, and have not repented of sinning against the Father.

No. (I'm sharing Francis's frustration right now, lol.)

Deborah, these people who are saved outside of any knowledge of Jesus, the gospel, or the law of Moses are repentant. They repent, in faith, according to what they know to repent of, not what they don't know to repent of, but which we who know about Christ and the gospel do know to repent of. Their faith in what God has revealed to them through conscience, outside of any knowledge of Christ or the law, is seen in their repentance according to what God shows them their hearts to be wrong and which he will judge the inhabitants of the earth about.

SALVATION BY HOW GOOD YOU ARE = SALVATION BY WORKS

Why is it works can only be understood in the context of a works gospel?

The faith that saves is the faith that can be seen in it's righteous behavior. Why do so many people want to argue with James and insist that the faith that saves DOESN'T have to have works attached for it to be the faith that saves?

I will have to try to find it but I'm pretty sure there is a scripture that says ALL people will have a chance to accept Jesus and His salvation.

I'm not aware of that scripture. I know of the one that says God desires all men to be saved. Which explains why the Bible says he has been witnessing to mankind through his Spirit through out the history of mankind, certainly since the days of Cain and Abel.

I don't know how He will or has accomplished done this but He does, I think.

Romans 2 explains how he saves who we know to be the multitudes of people who will live in human history without the knowledge of Christ and the gospel or the law of Moses.

He saves them the same way he spoke to the people of Noah's day--through Christ via the Holy Spirit. Do you know what scripture I'm referring to? God has been warning the people of the earth of his judgment from the beginning. Like Cain, and the people of Noah's day, most choose to reject the warning and don't respond in faith but continue to do what he says not to do.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Who said the theoretical person being talked about here has rejected Christ? This person has never heard the name of Christ, nor knows about the law of Moses.

No that is not what was mentioned, read the post.

If Francis has said these people have heard about Christ and the gospel, or the law of Moses then I stand corrected. I would be interested in seeing where he said that.

You also defended this thought that muslims could be saved while they reject Christ. Now you want to add these conditions and explain away what you have tried to defend? That is just dishonest.

Help me remember where I defended the suggestion that muslims can hear about Christ and reject the gospel but still be saved. A link to the post will be sufficient.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Sorry your universal salvation for "non-believers" and condemnation of "believers" is not biblical.

How did you get that all unbelievers are universally saved out of what we've been saying? Only those who respond in faith to the voice of Christ in their hearts, who have no other revelation of God, will be saved. How did you get universal salvation for all unbelievers out of that?

And as far as believers being condemned, how is it that you don't agree with James who says the person who claims to have faith but has no works can not be saved by that faith?

The argument is not condemning believers. It's condemning those who insist they are believers but who can't prove it by what they do. How is it that you think true believers are being condemned by that? Maybe they were believers at one time, but if you stop having faith in Christ you become, by definition, an unbeliever. An unbeliever who is then condemned by their unbelief. So, no. No condemnation of believers going on here. Only unbelievers--those who reject the forgiveness of God as evidenced by their disobedience. Some of whom may have been believers at one time, but chose to reject the blood that was ministering on their behalf in heaven when they had faith in that blood to do that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So all the faithful Christians who believe in OSAS are now condemned to Hell.

No. Only those who live by OSAS doctrine and reject Christ thinking they're still protected by the blood they have rejected.

Can you see the difference?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

John 7:17-18~~17"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or [whether] I speak from Myself. 18"He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Faith alone in Christ alone speaks of Christ alone. ANYTHING else is speaking of man and his own glory.

But OSAS doctrine says I don't have to be willing to do his will to know God and be saved on the Day of Wrath.

Explain how Christ talks about 'doing' and you use his words to defend salvation by faith, but when we talk about 'doing' it can only be heard (mistakenly) as the damnable works gospel? Help me understand why you and others can only hear 'works gospel' when we show you what the Bible says about the faith that saves--the faith that works.

 

[George Muller]

Deborah, these people who are saved outside of any knowledge of Jesus, the gospel,

First, one of the core beliefs of the muslim religion is to deny Christ. And no man has any authority to promote than anyone can be saved apart from faith in Christ. This is heresy.

2Pe 2:1 ¶ But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[George Muller]

How did you get that all unbelievers are universally saved out of what we've been saying? Only those who respond in faith to the voice of Christ in their hearts, who have no other revelation of God, will be saved. How did you get universal salvation for all unbelievers out of that?

And as far as believers being condemned, how is it that you don't agree with James who says the person who claims to have faith but has no works can not be saved by that faith?

So its your belief that a person can be saved apart from faith in Christ? That the new gospel is to not preach Jesus? That we can just assume that they who reject Christ are really saved? What nonsense! So we no longer go to world and suffer with Christ to proclaim His righteousness, we save these people and ourselves the trouble, by assuming the bible is wrong, that a man can be saved apart from a living confession of faith?

And James is speaking of "works of faith" according to the "law of faith" not works of law, nor the "law of works"

But you would condemn the believer who has faith and save the nonbeliever who rejects Christ? This is heresy.

 

[George Muller]

No. Only those who live by OSAS doctrine and reject Christ thinking they're still protected by the blood they have rejected.

So we who believe and have faith in His Blood are condemned because we trust in His Blood