1 Corinthians 12-14

[jasoncran]

free a charasmatic?

i would haver thought that? i am one, though i dont attend one.
my church is praying for the pentacost type revival. Interesting to see what the Lord will do.

hmm, we may become a pentacostal chruch once more(christian and missionary alliance) was part of the american charismatic movement when it started.

 

[glorydaz]

free a charasmatic?

i would haver thought that? i am one, though i dont attend one.
my church is praying for the pentacost type revival. Interesting to see what the Lord will do.

hmm, we may become a pentacostal chruch once more(christian and missionary alliance) was part of the american charismatic movement when it started.

Yes, well the earth is ripe, and I don't see the need for the church sitting around speaking in tongues and edifying themselves with signs and wonders. The laborers are few enough as it is.

Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

I honestly have to wonder, Jason, how many unsaved people are drawn to churches where people are singing and praying in the Spirit. The gifts are fine, but where is the real preaching of the Gospel? Where is the burden to bring people in from the cold? Where does the rubber meet the road? Certainly not in claiming God heals all who come...not in claiming God doesn't want us to suffer...not in singing and praying in the Spirit that only make the unsaved scratch their heads. Yes, it's a growing movement. I have a friend that insists God miraculously gave her a gold tooth, and she didn't even have to go to a dentist. This is the stuff I'm talking about...these claims that aren't supported by fact. What do the unsaved see?

 

[jasoncran]

the churches i have been too that are charismatic do live out the life and dont buy into that blab and grab it. they teach that gifts are for today and also accept and work with the other churches to win souls

my church will work with others and vice versa.
all the ministers know each other in this town. my pastor was praying for another healing last week. The other pastor chruch is rather large and has a radio station that reaches out to several million(it reaches the cape to jupiter,fl)if you are familiar with Florida.

 

[glorydaz]

the churches i have been too that are charismatic do live out the life and dont buy into that blab and grab it. they teach that gifts are for today and also accept and work with the other churches to win souls

my church will work with others and vice versa.
all the ministers know each other in this town. my pastor was praying for another healing last week. The other pastor chruch is rather large and has a radio station that reaches out to several million(it reaches the cape to jupiter,fl)if you are familiar with Florida.

Wow, for a minute there I thought, "How other wordly". :crazy
No, I'm not familiar with Florida, but I am always happy to hear the Word is going out.

 

[awaken]

This verse in John has nothing to do with the "perfect" (mature) Paul is speaking of in all those other verses. Being mature in Christ does not mean we have reached our final state when we will have been "refined" and stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Once again, we are not speaking of when we are given our spiritual bodies and are translated into His wonderful presence. We are speaking of the perfecting of the saints here on earth. We go from babes, to young men, to old men....we're speaking of our spiritual walk while in this flesh, not our future glory. At least that's what we're supposed to be talking about when we're discussing Paul's use of the word "perfect".

Once again, I am not saying the gifts are not manifest today.
I believe I've been very clear on that, and have provided plenty of scriptural support already.

I am saying that the immature church in Corinth was taking liberties with the manifestation of the gifts, and Paul was attempting to show them a more excellent way...encouraging them to desire the best gifts and know what those gifts actually were instead of what they presumed them to be.

Why didn't Jesus speak in "tongues"? Why aren't tongues mentioned among the gifts in any other epistles? Why doesn't Paul mention them to any other church? Why just this group of carnal babes in Christ?

Why is the exact same Greek word used for what happened at Pentecost when men heard their own language being spoken?

I did not put it up there to explain the word "perfect"..I ask you two questions...
Do you know as you are known?
What scripture are you using to say some of the gifts are not manifested today

You asked...Why didn't Jesus speak in "tongues"? Why aren't tongues mentioned among the gifts in any other epistles? Why doesn't Paul mention them to any other church? Why just this group of carnal babes in Christ?
Maybe someone else can answer this better than I can...but what I have learned is that all the 9 manifestations mentioned in 1 Cor.12 are also found in the Old Testament..except tongues and interpretation of tongues. These two gifts were given on the day of Pentecost...

As far as Paul mentioned them in other Epistles..maybe the other churches were not having trouble with the order in their gathering.

I will ask you again...who were the ones speaking too on the day of Pentecost?

 

[awaken]

moving on to 1 Corinthians 14:1-3

"Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort." (1 Corinthians 14:1-3)



Paul described speaking to God in tongues, so this is a reference to the private form of tongues. When we are speaking to God in the Holy Spirit, we are praying in the Spirit.


In the NIV this passage says, "he utters mysteries with his spirit," but notice how this phrase is translated in other versions of the Bible:

"and in spirit he doth speak secrets" (Young's Literal Translation)


"but in spirit he speaks mysteries" (Pocket Interlinear New Testament)


"but in his spirit he speaks mysteries" (New American Standard Version)


"howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" (King James Version)


"but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" (1901 American Standard Version)


"he utters mysteries by the Spirit" (New International Version, footnote)


"because he is speaking secrets in the Spirit" (International Standard Version)


"Yet in the Spirit he is speaking secret truths" (Wesley's New Testament)


"but he utters mysteries in the Spirit" (Revised Standard Version)


"in the (Holy) Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things [not obvious to the understanding]" (Amplified Version)


In all of these versions, the translators had to decide whether or not the word "spirit" should be capitalized as "Spirit," and I can see that different translators made different decisions. However, the overwhelming agreement among these scholars is that when a person is praying "in tongues" then he is praying "in the spirit" or praying "in the Spirit." These phrases can all be used interchangeably because the Holy Spirit puts words into our spirits, not into our minds.

"Praying in tongues" and "praying with his spirit" and "praying in the spirit" and "praying in the Spirit" all mean the same thing.

 

[glorydaz]

This verse in John has nothing to do with the "perfect" (mature) Paul is speaking of in all those other verses. Being mature in Christ does not mean we have reached our final state when we will have been "refined" and stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Once again, we are not speaking of when we are given our spiritual bodies and are translated into His wonderful presence. We are speaking of the perfecting of the saints here on earth. We go from babes, to young men, to old men....we're speaking of our spiritual walk while in this flesh, not our future glory. At least that's what we're supposed to be talking about when we're discussing Paul's use of the word "perfect".

Once again, I am not saying the gifts are not manifest today.
I believe I've been very clear on that, and have provided plenty of scriptural support already.

I am saying that the immature church in Corinth was taking liberties with the manifestation of the gifts, and Paul was attempting to show them a more excellent way...encouraging them to desire the best gifts and know what those gifts actually were instead of what they presumed them to be.

Why didn't Jesus speak in "tongues"? Why aren't tongues mentioned among the gifts in any other epistles? Why doesn't Paul mention them to any other church? Why just this group of carnal babes in Christ?

Why is the exact same Greek word used for what happened at Pentecost when men heard their own language being spoken?

I did not put it up there to explain the word "perfect"..I ask you two questions...
Do you know as you are known?
What scripture are you using to say some of the gifts are not manifested today

You asked...Why didn't Jesus speak in "tongues"? Why aren't tongues mentioned among the gifts in any other epistles? Why doesn't Paul mention them to any other church? Why just this group of carnal babes in Christ?
Maybe someone else can answer this better than I can...but what I have learned is that all the 9 manifestations mentioned in 1 Cor.12 are also found in the Old Testament..except tongues and interpretation of tongues. These two gifts were given on the day of Pentecost...

As far as Paul mentioned them in other Epistles..maybe the other churches were not having trouble with the order in their gathering.

I will ask you again...who were the ones speaking too on the day of Pentecost?

Hmm... that looks like three questions to me. The last one being added for the first time, to my knowledge. I am happy you allowed me to ask a few questions, myself, as that only seems fair.

a. "Do you know as you are known?" I would have to say, Yes.
The Spirit of Truth has come unto me...and Jesus has been made manifest to me, and I to Him.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

b. What scripture do I use? I've already given you quite a few verses, but I'll suffice with this one.
There is also an abundance of circumstantial evidence which I've already provided.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Now for the third question..."I will ask you again...who were the ones speaking too on the day of Pentecost?"

If I'm understanding your question correctly....we see the disciples speaking in languages that were not their native Galilaean tongue. The Parthians heard them speak in the Parthian tongue. The Medes heard them speak in the Mede tongue...and on and on. Each listener heard his own language being spoken. That was a miracle. God translated just like the UN does when they sit around with those little microphones in their ears. Only in this case, it was the Holy Spirit. Now that's a miracle that cannot be replicated by any man.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

 

[awaken]

Hmm... that looks like three questions to me. The last one being added for the first time, to my knowledge. I am happy you allowed me to ask a few questions, myself, as that only seems fair.

a. "Do you know as you are known?" I would have to say, Yes.
The Spirit of Truth has come unto me...and Jesus has been made manifest to me, and I to Him.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

[quote="Romans 1:19":3oj7zfui] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

[/quote:3oj7zfui]

I did not mean to come across arrogant..sorry. I love questions..I ask a lot my self..that is how I learn. The third question was asked in another thread..but was never answered.

In John 3:2..it seems that there is going to be a time when he appears..that we will know him in a way that we did not before. I am still comforming to his image...to maturity..and until I reach that perfection..I will not know him fully until I see him face to face.

 

[glorydaz]

Seems to me like you are continually challenging God's truth.

It may seem that way, but I'm actually challenging you to move on to the "more excellent way".

I just want you to move away from the milk, and dine on the meat as Paul did the Corinthian church.
[quote="1 Corinthians 3:2":v32lku6v]I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Paul spoke in tongues more than ye all - I Corinth. 14:18 < He encouraged speaking in tongues !

Tongues are for a sign to those who do not believe in speaking in tongues (manifestations of the Spirit) - I Corinth. 14:22. These people need a sign. Whether they believe it or not ![/quote:v32lku6v]

And how do you know how many different dialects Paul spoke? All the Jews had their own. He had travelled all over. Who made you the decider of fact about such things? Read Acts 2, and maybe you'll have a better understanding than you seem to at present.

Let's try this one in another translation since you are't quite grasping the word "rather".

Now I wish that all of you could speak in other languages, but especially that you could prophesy. The person who prophesies is more important than the person who speaks in another language, unless he interprets it so that the church may be built up.

 

[Mysteryman]

I just want you to move away from the milk, and dine on the meat as Paul did the Corinthian church.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

[/quote]



Paul spoke in tongues more than ye all - I Corinth. 14:18 < He encouraged speaking in tongues !

Tongues are for a sign to those who do not believe in speaking in tongues (manifestations of the Spirit) - I Corinth. 14:22. These people need a sign. Whether they believe it or not ![/quote]

And how do you know how many different dialects Paul spoke? All the Jews had their own. He had travelled all over. Who made you the decider of fact about such things? Read Acts 2, and maybe you'll have a better understanding than you seem to at present.

Let's try this one in another translation since you are't quite grasping the word "rather".

Now I wish that all of you could speak in other languages, but especially that you could prophesy. The person who prophesies is more important than the person who speaks in another language, unless he interprets it so that the church may be built up.

[/quote]


Hi glorydaz:

I don't see where the different translation changes anything. The key word is "unless" --- he interprets. Then one is not more important than the other.

And remember that this edifies the Church. And that tongues is for a sign unto those who believe not. Tongues is also praying in the Spirit. When one speaks in tongues they speak mysteries unto God, and the one speaking in tongues is building one's self up spiritually. This building up, is spiritual growth. Which brings one into a more mature state of spirituality.

 

[awaken]

What scripture do I use? I've already given you quite a few verses, but I'll suffice with this one.
There is also an abundance of circumstantial evidence which I've already provided.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Now for the third question..."I will ask you again...who were the ones speaking too on the day of Pentecost?"

If I'm understanding your question correctly....we see the disciples speaking in languages that were not their native Galilaean tongue. The Parthians heard them speak in the Parthian tongue. The Medes heard them speak in the Mede tongue...and on and on. Each listener heard his own language being spoken. That was a miracle. God translated just like the UN does when they sit around with those little microphones in their ears. Only in this case, it was the Holy Spirit. Now that's a miracle that cannot be replicated by any man.
[quote="Acts 2:4-12":3bwym5vz]And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

[/quote:3bwym5vz]

The scripture you use..well we will just have to agree to disagree, because we see the word perfect different. But let me bring up one scripture that has not been mentioned..

1 Cor.1:7 "So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also comfirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."..seems here Paul is saying that we should have the gifts until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

As for the languages..I agree they are speaking in languages that the others understand..but are the ones speaking in tongues ..speaking too the ones of other nations or did they just understand what they were saying?

 

[jasoncran]

:crazy
every time i look at the holy spirit i cant understand him completely.

 

[glorydaz]

Hmm... that looks like three questions to me. The last one being added for the first time, to my knowledge. I am happy you allowed me to ask a few questions, myself, as that only seems fair.

a. "Do you know as you are known?" I would have to say, Yes.
The Spirit of Truth has come unto me...and Jesus has been made manifest to me, and I to Him.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

[quote="Romans 1:19":2u6iguky] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

I did not mean to come across arrogant..sorry. I love questions..I ask a lot my self..that is how I learn. The third question was asked in another thread..but was never answered.

In John 3:2..it seems that there is going to be a time when he appears..that we will know him in a way that we did not before. I am still comforming to his image...to maturity..and until I reach that perfection..I will not know him fully until I see him face to face.[/quote:2u6iguky]

No problem. There is nothing harder than trying to communicate by typing. We can't sit there over a cup of coffee...face to face, if you will. :biglaugh

The longer we walk with the Lord, the better we know Him, and the better He shows us ourself.
He, of course, knows us more intimately than we can know ourselves...but He shows us more with each passing day.

I love this verse in John...."It doth not yet appear."
We walk by faith, not by sight, and God sees the perfection of Jesus when he looks at us.

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

This one I love, too...."having not seen", we love...though we don't see Him now with our eyes, we rejoice because we know Him in our hearts. It's kinda like a blind child that loves his mother even though he can not see her.

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

 

[awaken]

This one has been explained before and I might be repeating...but these scriptures tied together helped me understand the edifying of one self...
1 Corinthians 14:4
"He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church." (1 Corinthians 14:4)

I see Paul saying that speaking in tongues edifies the speaker (encourages him, benefits him, builds him up in his faith) but Paul implied that tongues by itself does not edify a church congregation in the way that prophesying does. Therefore, the speaking in tongues in this verse refers to the private form of tongues (because the public form of tongues is the one which is meant to edify the congregation).


The word "edifies" is a translation of the Greek word oikodomeo, which means "to build up in the faith, to edify". Paul said in this verse that speaking in tongues "edifies" a person (it builds up his faith), and Jude said that we should build up our faith, praying in the Holy Spirit:

"But you, beloved, build yourselves up [founded] on your most holy faith - make progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher - praying in the Holy Spirit" (Jude 1:20, AMP)

Jude said that praying in the Holy Spirit builds us up and edifies us. Paul said that speaking in tongues builds us up and edifies us. Again, "praying in the Spirit" and "praying in tongues" are simply two ways of saying the same thing.

 

[glorydaz]

Now I wish that all of you could speak in other languages, but especially that you could prophesy. The person who prophesies is more important than the person who speaks in another language, unless he interprets it so that the church may be built up.

Hi glorydaz:

I don't see where the different translation changes anything. The key word is "unless" --- he interprets. Then one is not more important than the other.

And remember that this edifies the Church. And that tongues is for a sign unto those who believe not. Tongues is also praying in the Spirit. When one speaks in tongues they speak mysteries unto God, and the one speaking in tongues is building one's self up spiritually. This building up, is spiritual growth. Which brings one into a more mature state of spirituality.

One is only deemed "more important" in this translation because unless someone is speaking a language that can be understood, the message is lost. Now if I came in speaking French, and then I interpreted what I'd said in French, the message would be understood, but it would be pretty silly to not just speak in English to begin with. The person who "prophecies" is speaking words of comfort, edification or encouragement from the Word. His message is not lost...all can understand it.

Check out this verse...

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

I hadn't noticed this before, but Paul is referring to a scripture from the OT. It's from Isaiah 28.
If you read this, you may see what Paul is saying.

In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate. But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

While I was researching this from Isaiah, I was surprised to find these commentaries, but they put it better than I could, so I'll include them here. You may not agree, but they confirm to me what I've been trying to say.

14:21 It is written in the Law - The word here, as frequently, means the Old Testament. In foreign tongues will I speak to this people - And so he did. He spake terribly to them by the Babylonians, when they had set at nought what he had spoken by the prophets, who used their own language. These words received a farther accomplishment on the day of pentecost. Isaiah 28:11.

21. In the law-as the whole Old Testament is called, being all of it the law of God. Compare the citation of the Psalms as the "law," Joh 10:34. Here the quotation is from Isa 28:11, 12, where God virtually says of Israel, This people hear Me not, though I speak to. them in the language with which they are familiar; I will therefore speak to them in other tongues, namely, those of the foes whom I will send against them; but even then they will not hearken to Me; which Paul thus applies, Ye see that it is a penalty to be associated with men of a strange tongue, yet ye impose this on the Church [Grotius]; they who speak in foreign tongues are like "children" just "weaned from the milk" (Isa 28:9), "with stammering lips" speaking unintelligibly to the hearers, appearing ridiculous (Isa 28:14), or as babbling drunkards (Ac 2:13), or madmen (1Co 14:23).

14:15-25 There can be no assent to prayers that are not understood. A truly Christian minister will seek much more to do spiritual good to men's souls, than to get the greatest applause to himself. This is proving himself the servant of Christ. Children are apt to be struck with novelty; but do not act like them. Christians should be like children, void of guile and malice; yet they should not be unskilful as to the word of righteousness, but only as to the arts of mischief. It is a proof that a people are forsaken of God, when he gives them up to the rule of those who teach them to worship in another language. They can never be benefitted by such teaching. Yet thus the preachers did who delivered their instructions in an unknown tongue. Would it not make Christianity ridiculous to a heathen, to hear the ministers pray or preach in a language which neither he nor the assembly understood? But if those who minister, plainly interpret Scripture, or preach the great truths and rules of the gospel, a heathen or unlearned person might become a convert to Christianity. His conscience might be touched, the secrets of his heart might be revealed to him, and so he might be brought to confess his guilt, and to own that God was present in the assembly. Scripture truth, plainly and duly taught, has a wonderful power to awaken the conscience and touch the heart.

 

[awaken]

1 Corinthians 14:5
"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified." (1 Corinthians 14:5)

It seems that Paul wanted everyone to speak in tongues. Why? Because it edifies us when we speak in tongues. There is a personal benefit that we receive when we pray in tongues (the private form of tongues), as Paul explained in 1 Corinthians 14:4. All Christians, even in modern times, benefit from praying in the Spirit, and that's why the Bible tells us to "pray in the Spirit on all occasions" (Ephesians 6:18).


Paul also said that when we speak in tongues to a church congregation (using the public form of tongues, i.e. the "gift" of tongues) and we interpret what was said (using the gift of interpretation), this is equivalent to prophesying. Speaking in the gift of tongues and then giving the interpretation results in the same benefit and edification for the church congregation as the gift of prophecy does, according to the verse above.


Notice that in this verse Paul has fully endorsed both the private and the public forms of tongues, as long as they are used properly.

 

[glorydaz]

This one has been explained before and I might be repeating...but these scriptures tied together helped me understand the edifying of one self...
1 Corinthians 14:4
"He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church." (1 Corinthians 14:4)

I see Paul saying that speaking in tongues edifies the speaker (encourages him, benefits him, builds him up in his faith) but Paul implied that tongues by itself does not edify a church congregation in the way that prophesying does. Therefore, the speaking in tongues in this verse refers to the private form of tongues (because the public form of tongues is the one which is meant to edify the congregation).


The word "edifies" is a translation of the Greek word oikodomeo, which means "to build up in the faith, to edify". Paul said in this verse that speaking in tongues "edifies" a person (it builds up his faith), and Jude said that we should build up our faith, praying in the Holy Spirit:

"But you, beloved, build yourselves up [founded] on your most holy faith - make progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher - praying in the Holy Spirit" (Jude 1:20, AMP)

Jude said that praying in the Holy Spirit builds us up and edifies us. Paul said that speaking in tongues builds us up and edifies us. Again, "praying in the Spirit" and "praying in tongues" are simply two ways of saying the same thing.

I thinks "tongues" has been misunderstood. The "Spirit language" is something that can mean different things to different people, but some people are taught to just let go and they practice doing that. We're to worship in the Spirit, singing Psalms and making melody to the Lord. Sometimes it's difficult to find the right words when we pray...and that could be what some do.

But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Even though the Spirit speaks through us, what is the point if no one understands?

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

We all pray and sing filled with the Spirit....that's not tongues.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Personally, I pray with the spirit, and my understanding also.

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

I must say, I don't believe Jude was talking about "tongues".

 

[glorydaz]

1 Corinthians 14:5
"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified." (1 Corinthians 14:5)

It seems that Paul wanted everyone to speak in tongues. Why? Because it edifies us when we speak in tongues. There is a personal benefit that we receive when we pray in tongues (the private form of tongues), as Paul explained in 1 Corinthians 14:4. All Christians, even in modern times, benefit from praying in the Spirit, and that's why the Bible tells us to "pray in the Spirit on all occasions" (Ephesians 6:18).


Paul also said that when we speak in tongues to a church congregation (using the public form of tongues, i.e. the "gift" of tongues) and we interpret what was said (using the gift of interpretation), this is equivalent to prophesying. Speaking in the gift of tongues and then giving the interpretation results in the same benefit and edification for the church congregation as the gift of prophecy does, according to the verse above.


Notice that in this verse Paul has fully endorsed both the private and the public forms of tongues, as long as they are used properly.

Perhaps if you just put other languages in place of the word "tongues", you'd see things differently.

I believe Veteran tried to address this. The Greek word "glossa" is used many times in the NT. Here is the definition...

the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech
a tongue
the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations

 

[awaken]

I thinks "tongues" has been misunderstood. The "Spirit language" is something that can mean different things to different people, but some people are taught to just let go and they practice doing that. We're to worship in the Spirit, singing Psalms and making melody to the Lord. Sometimes it's difficult to find the right words when we pray...and that could be what some do.

But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Even though the Spirit speaks through us, what is the point if no one understands?
[quote="Matthew 10:19-21":20nhh8y6] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

We all pray and sing filled with the Spirit....that's not tongues.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Personally, I pray with the spirit, and my understanding also.

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

I must say, I don't believe Jude was talking about "tongues".[/quote:20nhh8y6]

Well, you might want to take that up with Paul..because he is the one that said that praying in tongues, your spirit prays..but you do not understand what you are praying. 1 Cor. 14:14

 

[awaken]

1 Corinthians 14:6-12
"Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church." (1 Corinthians 14:6-12)

Paul was continuing to explain that an uninterpreted message given in tongues to the church congregation does not edify them (build them up in their faith) because they can't understand what is being said. On the other hand, an interpreted message in tongues does edify the congregation because it results in a revelation or a word of knowledge or a word of prophecy or a word of instruction. In other words, the public form of tongues needs to be interpreted into the local language, otherwise the speaker is just speaking into the air and not doing anybody (other than himself) any good. Paul was saying that using the private form of tongues in a public fashion is a waste of people's time, and apparently this is what some of the people in the Corinthian church were doing.


Paul's comment that there are all sorts of languages in the world has led some people to assume that speaking in tongues always refers to human languages. However, we can't be dogmatic on this point because Paul had earlier talked about speaking in the tongues of angels (1 Corinthians 13:1).