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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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1 Corinthians 12-14
- Thread starter awaken
- Start date
Tongues means "other tongues" and is speaking of a different language or dialect. Unless people understand that, they can never see what Paul is saying to the Corinthian Church. He is rebuking, not encouraging this "manifestation" being practiced in Corinth.
Paul doesn't want the brethren to be ignorant concerning the spiritual gifts. He is well aware of the gods these Greeks had been worshipping.
One of those gods was Dionysus, the god of wine. He was known as the inspirer of ritual madness and ecstasy...freeing one's normal self. Another was Cybele who was worshipped with wild dancing, drumming, and drinking.
Paul was well aware of the abuse that was being done with "tongues", which were actually "other languages" in Acts, but had been perverted into "unknown" tongues by those in the Cor. church. He's already admonished them for turning the Lord's supper into a drunken party, and he goes on to tell them they look like barbarians when they speak with "tongues" no one can understand. Tongues are always other languages...from Acts on, whenever they are mentioned. Except, of course, in Corinth, where these carnal members of the church were taking practices from their old pagan religions and using them in the assembly.
Paul doesn't want the brethren to be ignorant concerning the spiritual gifts. He is well aware of the gods these Greeks had been worshipping.
1 Cor. 12:1-2 said:
One of those gods was Dionysus, the god of wine. He was known as the inspirer of ritual madness and ecstasy...freeing one's normal self. Another was Cybele who was worshipped with wild dancing, drumming, and drinking.
Paul was well aware of the abuse that was being done with "tongues", which were actually "other languages" in Acts, but had been perverted into "unknown" tongues by those in the Cor. church. He's already admonished them for turning the Lord's supper into a drunken party, and he goes on to tell them they look like barbarians when they speak with "tongues" no one can understand. Tongues are always other languages...from Acts on, whenever they are mentioned. Except, of course, in Corinth, where these carnal members of the church were taking practices from their old pagan religions and using them in the assembly.
awaken said:
The gifts of the Spirit are not given for one's own personal benefit...they are to profit "all."
1 Corinthians 12:7 said:
Praying in the Spirit isn't praying in unknown tongues.
"To make known the mystery of the gospel"...speaking bolding...as one ought to speak.
Eph. 6:18-19 said:
- Thread starter
- #84
[quote="glorydazYou'll see I did answer...I highlighted it in red.
Perhaps I am answering and you're failing to read? Ya think? ;)[/quote]
Maybe you would like to read the question again...you forgot before he knew Jesus. I will agree that Paul was very educated, he knew many languages..but the question was did he speak different languages before he knew Jesus?
Perhaps I am answering and you're failing to read? Ya think? ;)[/quote]
Maybe you would like to read the question again...you forgot before he knew Jesus. I will agree that Paul was very educated, he knew many languages..but the question was did he speak different languages before he knew Jesus?
- Thread starter
- #86
1 Corinthians 14:18-19
"I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Corinthians 14:18-19)
Paul was thankful that he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. This is a reference to the private form of tongues, because in the very next sentence Paul said, "But in the church..." Therefore, Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone else outside of church, praising God privately in the Spirit. Paul was thankful that he spoke in tongues frequently because he had a high regard for the personal benefit that people can receive through the private use of tongues (recall that a few verses earlier Paul said that he would like for everyone to speak in tongues).
Paul said that in church he would rather speak words of instruction (which people can understand), rather than an uninterpreted message in tongues (which people can't understand). In other words, it doesn't edify the church congregation when we use the private form of tongues in a public fashion (as if it's a message from God).
Keep in mind that even if someone stands up and delivers a true message from God in tongues, this does not guarantee that an interpretation will come forth. The person who receives the interpretation might not be spiritually discerning enough to "hear" it, or he might not have been taught what to do with it. Or he might keep it to himself simply out of fear or nervousness.
"I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Corinthians 14:18-19)
Paul was thankful that he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. This is a reference to the private form of tongues, because in the very next sentence Paul said, "But in the church..." Therefore, Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone else outside of church, praising God privately in the Spirit. Paul was thankful that he spoke in tongues frequently because he had a high regard for the personal benefit that people can receive through the private use of tongues (recall that a few verses earlier Paul said that he would like for everyone to speak in tongues).
Paul said that in church he would rather speak words of instruction (which people can understand), rather than an uninterpreted message in tongues (which people can't understand). In other words, it doesn't edify the church congregation when we use the private form of tongues in a public fashion (as if it's a message from God).
Keep in mind that even if someone stands up and delivers a true message from God in tongues, this does not guarantee that an interpretation will come forth. The person who receives the interpretation might not be spiritually discerning enough to "hear" it, or he might not have been taught what to do with it. Or he might keep it to himself simply out of fear or nervousness.
awaken said:
Well, we know from Acts 21 that Paul spoke both Hebrew and Greek...I'm pretty sure he didn't need Jesus to teach him those languages. We also know that the Lord gave him the power to speak to multitudes in their own dialect. There were many dialects among the Jews...which we learned from Acts 2. Now, I wasn't there at the time, but my understanding from reading the Word is that God enabled the Gospel to be preached in other languages than those who were sent normally spoke. Those would be the signs and wonders that followed the Apostles in the establishment of the early church.
- Thread starter
- #91
glorydaz said:awaken said:So you are saying that building yourself up..strengthening yourself spiritually is not for the edifying of the body?
I merely repeating what the Word, itself, says.
The gifts are to be for the edification of the body...not for personal use.
And I ask a simple question...
Let me put it this way..
If I was on a football team..and I did not work out on weights, run to keep in shape, did not eat right etc.
Would I be any good for the team?
Just to save a lot of double talk...the answer is NO! I would probably get kicked off the team..I would not help strengthen the team at all. Therefore, to edify oneself is beneficial to the whole team(body).
Jude tells us to build ourselves up..
- Thread starter
- #93
To continue in 1 Cor...
1 Corinthians 14:26-29
"What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said." (1 Corinthians 14:26-29)
There's a big difference between this description of first-century church services and most modern church services! Paul said that when these people came together for church, everyone had gifts to be used for ministering to one another. Modern churches tend to believe that all Christians receive one or more gifts of the Spirit, yet it seems that few churches encourage their members to actually use all of their gifts to edify and minister to one another. How different from the original form of church services.
Sometimes well-meaning Christians use this passage to denounce charismatic meetings or church services in which many people pray in tongues all at once (using the private form of tongues). They say that this is an unScriptural practice because the above passage tells us to speak in tongues one at a time. However, that argument demonstrates a misunderstanding of this passage and a misunderstanding of what is going on in the charismatic services. In this passage Paul was referring to those who stand up and give a message in tongues from God to the church congregation. These messages must be done decently and in order, and an interpretation must be given so that the congregation can be instructed. Paul was describing the public form of tongues here. This is an entirely different situation than when a group of believers prays together, and some or all of them are praying in tongues at the same time. When believers are praying together and some of them are praying in tongues, they are using the private form of tongues (which is specifically for praying to God). No messages to the congregation are being given in tongues in that situation, and therefore that situation does not fall under Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 14:26-29 (above).
Notice that the Bible specifically describes a group of people all praying in tongues together on the day of Pentecost:
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." (Acts 2:4)
1 Corinthians 14:26-29
"What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said." (1 Corinthians 14:26-29)
There's a big difference between this description of first-century church services and most modern church services! Paul said that when these people came together for church, everyone had gifts to be used for ministering to one another. Modern churches tend to believe that all Christians receive one or more gifts of the Spirit, yet it seems that few churches encourage their members to actually use all of their gifts to edify and minister to one another. How different from the original form of church services.
Sometimes well-meaning Christians use this passage to denounce charismatic meetings or church services in which many people pray in tongues all at once (using the private form of tongues). They say that this is an unScriptural practice because the above passage tells us to speak in tongues one at a time. However, that argument demonstrates a misunderstanding of this passage and a misunderstanding of what is going on in the charismatic services. In this passage Paul was referring to those who stand up and give a message in tongues from God to the church congregation. These messages must be done decently and in order, and an interpretation must be given so that the congregation can be instructed. Paul was describing the public form of tongues here. This is an entirely different situation than when a group of believers prays together, and some or all of them are praying in tongues at the same time. When believers are praying together and some of them are praying in tongues, they are using the private form of tongues (which is specifically for praying to God). No messages to the congregation are being given in tongues in that situation, and therefore that situation does not fall under Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 14:26-29 (above).
Notice that the Bible specifically describes a group of people all praying in tongues together on the day of Pentecost:
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." (Acts 2:4)
Mysteryman
Member
- Feb 16, 2010
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awaken said:
Hi awaken
If they are in an assembly, and are praying spiritually in their private prayer. Then it should not be out loud and all at once. Everything should be done decent and in order at all times. I can expound more, but have to run right now.
Bless
- Thread starter
- #97
glorydaz said:
Again..Paul called it praying in the spirit..
Paul described speaking to God in tongues, so this is a reference to the private form of tongues. When we are speaking to God in the Holy Spirit, we are praying in the Spirit.
"For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God." (1 Corinthians 14:2)
"For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful." (1 Corinthians 14:14)
- Thread starter
- #98
1 Corinthians 14:39
"Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." (1 Corinthians 14:39)
Paul's final word on tongues, and in fact the final word on tongues in the entire New Testament, is that speaking in tongues must not be forbidden. Christians today should be praying in tongues just as they did in the first century (following Paul's guidelines), because when it's done properly then it results in the edification of the speaker and of the church.
"Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." (1 Corinthians 14:39)
Paul's final word on tongues, and in fact the final word on tongues in the entire New Testament, is that speaking in tongues must not be forbidden. Christians today should be praying in tongues just as they did in the first century (following Paul's guidelines), because when it's done properly then it results in the edification of the speaker and of the church.
Mysteryman
Member
- Feb 16, 2010
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awaken said:
Hi awaken
Every record in the Word, where they spoke in tongues the first time, the many spoke in tongues at the same time , you are correct. Acts 2 and Acts 10 and Acts 19 , and you are correct, there was no interpretation of tongues within any of these three records. There were tongues and prophecy though, in two of these three records. The day of pentecost only speaking in tongues, and those hearing them heard what they spoke as if it was prophesy unto their ears, because they heard them speak in their own language. Acts 2 day of pentecost was a public setting. Both Acts 10 and Acts 19 were private settings. (the most three the least two) :yes
But , when this is not the first time. Then speaking in tongues is to be done decent and in order. In your private prayer life, it is to be done in silence. Paul mentions this in I Corinth. 14:15 - 17. And especially in verse 28. If you pray in the spirit and sing in the spirit and in the room and there is some unlearned. There will not be any edification. I Corinth. 14:23 explains that the unlearned will think you are mad. This is because of the confusion that would exist if all were speaking in tongues at the same time.
Paul clarifies that in the church (verse 19) he would rather speak five words with my understanding that I might teach others, than ten thousand words in an tongue. There is no profit when in the Church there being ten thousand words in tongues. It does not edify nor does it build up.
This is why Paul state in verse 26 - "How is it brethren ? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctorine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation = confusion, Let all things be done unto edifiying"
Bless - MM