1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[JLB]

Yep, every one of them. I mean, that's what Jesus said concerning the future of every unbeliever that belives in Him in the present.




Same as in Rev 21:

Revelation 21:7-8 (LEB) The one who conquers will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowards and unbelievers and detestable persons and murderers and sexually immoral people and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their share is in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.

​

​

Umm, that's NOT what the verse says. Nope, nothing about "returning to unbelieving" in the verse. Why add to the book of Revelation words that simply aren't there???

Here maybe this will help:

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

Those who believe for a while then fall away, no longer believe.

These were unbelieving folks, who heard the Gospel, received it with joy, believed for a while... then while under persecution, they returned to unbelieving.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


These are unbelieving.

Whether they were unbelieving; as in never believed.

or

Unbelieving; as in believed for a while, then fell back into unbelieving.

Revelation 21:8 makes no distinction, it says the "unbelieving" will have their part in the lake of fire.

Likewise, it describes "all liars" with have their part in the lake of fire.

If your a Christian, that is a liar, you can expect to have your part in the lake of fire.

Their in no distinction made in verse 8, as to some "special category" of Christians who are exempt from being included in the phrase "all liars".

If you are a Christian and you practice the works of the flesh of: murder, or sexual immorality, or sorcery, or idolatry... then you will have your part in the lake of fire.

This is what Paul taught in his letters to the churches he wrote to.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

and again

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Therefore do not be partakers with them.


Paul warns his brothers and sisters in Christ, to turn away from an unrighteous and immoral lifestyle, so that they themselves are not partakers of God's wrath along with the children of disobedience.

...so that they themselves are not partakers of God's wrath along with the children of disobedience.


and again

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Here maybe this will help:

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

No, this is not helpful. Why would anyone assume that v.8 speaks of former believers? We know the Bible refers to former believers as apostates, not unbelievers.

Those who believe for a while then fall away, no longer believe.

Not the issue.

These were unbelieving folks, who heard the Gospel, received it with joy, believed for a while... then while under persecution, they returned to unbelieving.

Not the issue.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

These are unbelieving.

The Bible describes them as apostates, not unbelievers. Please provide ANY verse that describes any apostate as an unbeliever and ONLY THEN will you have a point.

Whether they were unbelieving; as in never believed.

This is exactly how the Bible describes those who never believed. But NEVER for one who has believed.

Unbelieving; as in believed for a while, then fell back into unbelieving.

Please stick with how the Bible describes people.

Revelation 21:8 makes no distinction, it says the "unbelieving" will have their part in the lake of fire.

Unless there are any verses that very plainly describes former believers as 'unbelievers', 21:8 speaks of those who NEVER BELIEVED.

Likewise, it describes "all liars" with have their part in the lake of fire.

You've lied about a number of my posts, and what I have supposedly claimed.

If your a Christian, that is a liar, you can expect to have your part in the lake of fire.

Then, just to be clear, your position must be that Jesus Christ didn't die for the sin of lying. How does one square that with Scripture, which states that Christ died for the sin of mankind?

Their in no distinction made in verse 8, as to some "special category" of Christians who are exempt from being included in the phrase "all liars".

Your views do not square with Scripture. Jesus Christ died for all sins, not some, most, a few, or even many. He died for all sins.

However, please provide any verse that you believe states that His death wasn't for all sins, or lists only the sins that He did die for.

Otherwise, all you've got is more opinion; empty claims.

If you are a Christian and you practice the works of the flesh of: murder, or sexual immorality, or sorcery, or idolatry... then you will have your part in the lake of fire.

Seems your list of the sins that Jesus Christ didn't die for just keeps growing. I'm waiting for any verse that supports your claim. And Rev 21:8 doesn't.

This is what Paul taught in his letters to the churches he wrote to.

Then it should be easy to find clear verses in each of his letters. I'm waiting for evidence. I'm tired of empty claims.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

So this is your "evidence". Sorry to burst the bubble here, but the phrase "not inherit the kingdom" is equivalent to a parallel passage in Eph 5:5 which says "have no inheritance IN the kingdom". Nothing about not getting into the kingdom.

and again

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7

There it is: "no fill in the blank has any inheritance IN the kingdom".

These passages are not about not getting INTO the kingdom, but NOT sharing in the inheritance IN the kingdom.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Because if we partake with those kind of believers, we ourselves will NOT partake of the inheritance IN the kingdom.

Paul warns his brothers and sisters in Christ, to turn away from an unrighteous and immoral lifestyle, so that they themselves are not partakers of God's wrath along with the children of disobedience.

God's wrath to believers is called divine discipline and includes loss of blessings in life, loss of eternal reward, and suffering that can include physical death. This is shown clearly in 1 Cor 11:30 and 1 Cor 5:5. And specifically mentioned in 1 John 5:16.

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
JLB

This is the other parallel passage along with Gal 5 and Eph 5. The issue of not having an inheritance IN the kingdom. Not about not getting INTO the kingdom as being claimed.

 

[chessman]

Revelation 21:7-8

Those who believe for a while then fall away, no longer believe.

These were unbelieving folks, who heard the Gospel, received it with joy, believed for a while... then while under persecution, they returned to unbelieving.

That's a lot of assumption going on from a passage that says otherwise.

Revelation 21:8 makes no distinction

That's incorrect. It is precisely making a distinction from the persons discussed in the previous verse (overcomers of the second death). Here this should help you, I'll highlight it in red for you:

Revelation 21:8 (LEB) But as for the cowards and unbelievers and detestable persons and murderers and sexually immoral people and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their share is in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.​

What does the word "but" mean? It means "but, on the other hand". A clear distinction is made. I will not be deceived into thinking that word is empty of meaning.

 

[JLB]

You keep asking and I have kept answering this question. Why keep on asking?
Eph 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit NIV

I'll even boil it down for ease of understanding:
you were included IN CHRIST when you having believed, were marked IN HIM with a seal

Please quit asking the same question over and over when it's been answered. This doesn't give any credibility to your position.

Please stop "misquoting" what Paul taught us about being "sealed".

Those who believe are "sealed", as in a "stamp of approval".

No where does the scripture say what you claimed, which says we are sealed "in Him".


That's is an intentional misquote to mislead God's people, about what Paul taught.


Those who believe, are sealed with the Holy Spirit.


Those who believe for a while, do not qualify as "believer's".

It's that simple.

"believe for a while", completely wrecks your false doctrine of once saved always saved.

Believe = saved.
Believe for a while = saved for a while.


Ignoring what Jesus taught will not change His truth.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15


Those who believe for a while, are saved for a while.


JLB

 

[JLB]

That's a lot of assumption going on from a passage that says otherwise.

No sir.

Just read what is written.

Does the passage say... all liars will have their part in the lake of fire? YES.

Does the passage say... the unbelieving will have their part in the lake of fire? YES.


The only assumption is to think this somehow does not refer to those whom John wrote this to: The Church.



JLB

 

[JLB]

No, this is not helpful. Why would anyone assume that v.8 speaks of former believers? We know the Bible refers to former believers as apostates, not unbelievers.


Not the issue.


Not the issue.


The Bible describes them as apostates, not unbelievers. Please provide ANY verse that describes any apostate as an unbeliever and ONLY THEN will you have a point.


This is exactly how the Bible describes those who never believed. But NEVER for one who has believed.


Please stick with how the Bible describes people.


Unless there are any verses that very plainly describes former believers as 'unbelievers', 21:8 speaks of those who NEVER BELIEVED.


You've lied about a number of my posts, and what I have supposedly claimed.


Then, just to be clear, your position must be that Jesus Christ didn't die for the sin of lying. How does one square that with Scripture, which states that Christ died for the sin of mankind?


Your views do not square with Scripture. Jesus Christ died for all sins, not some, most, a few, or even many. He died for all sins.

However, please provide any verse that you believe states that His death wasn't for all sins, or lists only the sins that He did die for.

Otherwise, all you've got is more opinion; empty claims.


Seems your list of the sins that Jesus Christ didn't die for just keeps growing. I'm waiting for any verse that supports your claim. And Rev 21:8 doesn't.


Then it should be easy to find clear verses in each of his letters. I'm waiting for evidence. I'm tired of empty claims.


So this is your "evidence". Sorry to burst the bubble here, but the phrase "not inherit the kingdom" is equivalent to a parallel passage in Eph 5:5 which says "have no inheritance IN the kingdom". Nothing about not getting into the kingdom.


There it is: "no fill in the blank has any inheritance IN the kingdom".

These passages are not about not getting INTO the kingdom, but NOT sharing in the inheritance IN the kingdom.


Because if we partake with those kind of believers, we ourselves will NOT partake of the inheritance IN the kingdom.


God's wrath to believers is called divine discipline and includes loss of blessings in life, loss of eternal reward, and suffering that can include physical death. This is shown clearly in 1 Cor 11:30 and 1 Cor 5:5. And specifically mentioned in 1 John 5:16.


This is the other parallel passage along with Gal 5 and Eph 5. The issue of not having an inheritance IN the kingdom. Not about not getting INTO the kingdom as being claimed.

All opinion.

No scripture.

Only scripture tags, with no actual scripture.

Your going to have to do better than stating your opinion, and tagging it with a scripture reference.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

Those who believe for a while then fall away, no longer believe.

These were unbelieving folks, who heard the Gospel, received it with joy, believed for a while... then while under persecution, they returned to unbelieving.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


These are unbelieving.

Whether they were unbelieving; as in never believed.

or

Unbelieving; as in believed for a while, then fell back into unbelieving.

Revelation 21:8 makes no distinction, it says the "unbelieving" will have their part in the lake of fire.

Likewise, it describes "all liars" with have their part in the lake of fire.

If your a Christian, that is a liar, you can expect to have your part in the lake of fire.

Their in no distinction made in verse 8, as to some "special category" of Christians who are exempt from being included in the phrase "all liars".

If you are a Christian and you practice the works of the flesh of: murder, or sexual immorality, or sorcery, or idolatry... then you will have your part in the lake of fire.

This is what Paul taught in his letters to the churches he wrote to.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

and again

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Therefore do not be partakers with them.


Paul warns his brothers and sisters in Christ, to turn away from an unrighteous and immoral lifestyle, so that they themselves are not partakers of God's wrath along with the children of disobedience.

...so that they themselves are not partakers of God's wrath along with the children of disobedience.


and again

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


JLB

 

[chessman]

Does the passage say... all liars will have their part in the lake of fire?

No. It says: But (on the other hand) the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

The deception is by you who claimed; "Their (sic) in (sic) no distinction made in verse 8"

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"You keep asking and I have kept answering this question. Why keep on asking?
Eph 1:13
And you also were included in Christwhen you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit NIV

I'll even boil it down for ease of understanding:
you were included IN CHRIST when you having believed, were marked IN HIM with a seal

Please quit asking the same question over and over when it's been answered. This doesn't give any credibility to your position."

Please stop "misquoting" what Paul taught us about being "sealed".

Please point out what was "misquoted", as you're claiming.

Those who believe are "sealed", as in a "stamp of approval".

No, as in indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

No where does the scripture say what you claimed, which says we are sealed "in Him".

Eph 1:13 does, and very clearly.

That's is an intentional misquote to mislead God's people, about what Paul taught.

"intentional misquote", you say? That's a flat out lie. Think about your favorite verse about "all liars" in Rev 21:8. And where you're headed, if your views are correct.

Those who believe, are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

That's exactly right. And what I've been saying all along.

Those who believe for a while, do not qualify as "believer's".

And what verse says this?? Please BACK UP your claims with Scripture. Which you haven't thus far.

It's that simple.

Not without biblical evidence.

"believe for a while", completely wrecks your false doctrine of once saved always saved.

How so?

Believe = saved.
Believe for a while = saved for a while.

So, what Scripture SAYS this? I keep getting your empty claims, but nothing from Scripture that supports this claim.

Ignoring what Jesus taught will not change His truth.

And you should take that to heart. Seriously.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15

Regardless of the number of times this passage is quoted changes nothing of what I've said all along. there is NOTHING in this or any other passage that says that those who cease to believe cease to be saved.

Those who believe for a while, are saved for a while.
JLB

So, why can't you prove this claim of yours from Scripture? No verse says this, so why believe it?

All Scripture is God breathed and is profitable. I'm not interested in mere opinions. Which is all you've given after quoting various verses. But none of which support your opinions.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"No, this is not helpful. Why would anyone assume that v.8 speaks of former believers? We know the Bible refers to former believers as apostates, not unbelievers."

All opinion.

No scripture.

Pretty much sums up your posts.

Only scripture tags, with no actual scripture.

Are you unable to place your cursor over the reference and simply read the pop-up, or just not enough motivated to actually see what God's Word says?

Your going to have to do better than stating your opinion, and tagging it with a scripture reference.

Pretty much sums up your posts.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

Those who believe for a while then fall away, no longer believe.

So prove that v.8 speaks of former believers. All I've been given is an incorrect opinion that has NOT been backed up with Scripture.

How can anyone take your opinions as credible when there is NO support from Scripture for any of them?

These were unbelieving folks, who heard the Gospel, received it with joy, believed for a while... then while under persecution, they returned to unbelieving.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13
These are unbelieving.

Sure. I see your tactic. Mix and match unrelated Scriptures to come up with your salad bowl theology. Other than an empty claim, you've not shown that Luke 8:13 refers to the "unbelievers" of Rev 21:8.

Whether they were unbelieving; as in never believed.
or
Unbelieving; as in believed for a while, then fell back into unbelieving.

It is Scripture that is profitable, not your baseless opinions.

Revelation 21:8 makes no distinction, it says the "unbelieving" will have their part in the lake of fire.

The first word in the verse makes the clear distinction. "but". Conjunction of CONTRAST.

Likewise, it describes "all liars" with have their part in the lake of fire.

And I just pointed out one of your lies about my posts in #873 regarding an "intentional misquote". Unless you possess the power of reading the mind of others, which you do NOT have, the word "intentional" is just a flat out lie.

(Edited by staff)

Their in no distinction made in verse 8, as to some "special category" of Christians who are exempt from being included in the phrase "all liars".

The first word in the verse does clearly make a distinction.

If you are a Christian and you practice the works of the flesh of: murder, or sexual immorality, or sorcery, or idolatry... then you will have your part in the lake of fire.

I asked previously what sins did Christ actually die for, since the list you've made up suggests that He didn't die for very many.

I would like an answer, and it is polite to do so. Failure to answer reveals the weakness in your position.

This is what Paul taught in his letters to the churches he wrote to.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

and again

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7

This is just a repeat of a previous recent post, which I thoroughly refuted.

 

[JLB]

JLB said
Does the passage say... all liars will have their part in the lake of fire?

No. It says: But (on the other hand) the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

The deception is by you who claimed; "Their (sic) in (sic) no distinction made in verse 8"

Again, your completely denying what the scripture plainly says, which is; "all liars will have their part in the lake of fire".

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

...all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.

Again and again, your denial of what the scriptures teach is evident to all.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I'll even boil it down for ease of understanding:
you were included IN CHRIST when you having believed, were marked IN HIM with a seal

Please quit asking the same question over and over when it's been answered. This doesn't give any credibility to your position."
Please point out what was "misquoted", as you're claiming.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

This promise is given to those who believe.

If a person, believes for a while, then falls away, and no longer believes the Gospel, what guarantee do they have, since they have returned to unbelieving?

Here is what the scripture guarantee's the unbelieving:

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


Those who were in Christ for a while, then removed from Him, are gathered up and throw into the fire and burned.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6


Those who do not remain connected "in Him", are "disconnected" from the eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who do not abide in Him are thrown into the fire and burned.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Again, your completely denying what the scripture plainly says, which is; "all liars will have their part in the lake of fire".

And I pointed out your recent post claimed that I had "intentionally misquoted" a verse, which is a lie.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

...all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.

Again and again, your denial of what the scriptures teach is evident to all.

I believe what is clearly evident is your misunderstanding of a lot of Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

This promise is given to those who believe.

Correct. So, what are we sealed FOR? Or, for what purpose have we been sealed? That's key to the verse.

If a person, believes for a while, then falls away, and no longer believes the Gospel, what guarantee do they have, since they have returned to unbelieving?

Just the answer to my question above. Please answer to get the answer to your own question.

Here is what the scripture guarantee's the unbelieving:

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

Since you've failed to show any verse that describes a former believer as an unbeliever, your "take" on Rev 21:8 is simply in error.

Those who were in Christ for a while, then removed from Him, are gathered up and throw into the fire and burned.

Since this seems to be your default position on "fire" and being "burned", please explain 1 Cor 3:14-15
If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. NIV

So, explain "burned up". What is burned up. Then explain what "suffer loss" means. What is lost, specifically?

Finally, explain how someone can suffer loss yet will be saved.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

Your unwillingness to understand and accept the principle of fellowship does not allow you to rightly divide the word of truth.

Those who do not remain connected "in Him", are "disconnected" from the eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The Bible refutes your claim. Those who believed are sealed with the Holy Spirit FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

 

[Mustard Socks]

Again, your completely denying what the scripture plainly says, which is; "all liars will have their part in the lake of fire".

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

...all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.

Again and again, your denial of what the scriptures teach is evident to all.



JLB

I would not dare to state everyone reads Free the way you do so please do not do that.

Rather, what is apparent is that you prefer page after page to argue against eternal life in Christ. While attacking with personal insults, and allusions to levy insults by way of scriptural inference, against those with whom you wage your disagreement. If anyone here appears to be ignorant of scripture and consecrated in knowledge of The Word, it is not Free. It is you.

To put it plainly and then I'm going to insure I do not have to witness the opposition you make public consistently, Jesus said no one shall take those who are called by God to Him from His hand.

That's it! Those who are reborn in the Spirit, are Indwelt by God's Holy Spirit, are so for eternity. Because an Omniscient God who knew US before He created the world knew who would be His. And who would be the posers. The fakes. The nominal, name only, one's.
He, GOD, knows this! And no argument that anyone opposed to that truth makes can ever change what the eternal all knowing everywhere present Father of the call decreed before this tragic 40+ page argument ensued.
Anyone who walks away from the faith in God in Christ and becomes the most corrupt sinner there is, was never in Christ in the first place.
The scriptures are clear. Your arguments will never ever change that fact. When the one called to Christ by God himself answers the call and enters into God's grace, that he decreed to be so before that person was even thought of in this world, they enter there eternally! They are never able to be un-done. Un-reborn, un-regenerated, un-indwelt by God's Holy Spirit. Not ever!

That's the fact of The Word Himself! That's the fact Jesus died to deliver.
Maybe the reason you argue against that fact is because you are not in the spirit or in possession of The Word. Of the actual facts that make God's people His own eternally.
You're trying to talk the saints into believing they're not one with God. That's a lie!
At this point you're the only one here arguing against God!

 

[Mustard Socks]

"Well, for future reference, there are a few that you will never see defending the Christian faith they claim according to their profiles on this website. In fact, you will see that one consistently defending and promoting anything but that. Such is the nature of the Internet though." Unknown - source: Google 2016

 

[chessman]

Again, your completely denying what the scripture plainly says, which is; "all liars will have their part in the lake of fire".

I do NOT deny all liars or all unbelievers will have their part in the Lake of Fire (the second death). Nor do I deny that all believers will never perish. Believers in Him are the ones that have overcome the second death. But (on the other-hand) unbelievers have not overcome the second death. That's what Rev 21:7-8 teaches.

John 16:33 (LEB) I have said these things to you so that in me you may have peace. In the world you have affliction, but have courage! I have conquered the world.”
​

There is no Scripture that says "all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire". You snip the part you like out and deny there is any distinction being made of these folks from that of the overcomers spoken of in verse 7.

Revelation 21:8 (LEB) But as for the cowards and unbelievers and detestable persons and murderers and sexually immoral people and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their share is in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death. ​

Plus, You deny that Paul teaches us that God's gifts are irrevocable because the verse says gifts and callings.

Romans 11:29 (LEB) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
​

Well guess what, using your method of 'interpretation' all liars do not have their part in the LoF. They would have to be a liar and be a murderer and be a coward and be an unbeliever and be a detestable person and be a sexually immoral person and be a sorcerer and be an idolater, to meet your method of interpretation.

Why snip out liar or unbeliever in Rev 21:8 when you think it's false that God's gifts are irrevocable from Rom 11:29???

Deleted comment

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, not all prodigals return home. The point of the parable as I see it was to address those that wish to, fear to, but persevere and take the change to.
I think those who do not return home were addressed by the disciples themselves. 1 John Chapter 2
Verse 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

But Mustard Socks never said anything about all prodigals coming back home. He said it would be "impossible for the chosen to revoke what God intended". And the Bible never says that man can revoke any of God's gifts.

I don't believe OSAS doctrine based on the Prodigal Son parable because, as I've said, not all Prodigals return home to somehow suggest OSAS is true on that basis, and 2) the parable does not address the fate of the Prodigal who does not come home. Most of exiled Israel, for example, chose not to come home, preferring to stay in the land of their captors. They rejected the gifts and calling of God. But, even though they did that, God did not revoke the gifts and calling. A remnant of Israelites to this day getting saved proves that God did not revoke that gift and calling from them altogether (Romans 11:28-29 NASB), even though Israel as a nation has been cut out of the tree (Romans 11:20 NASB).

 

[Mustard Socks]

I don't believe OSAS doctrine based on the Prodigal Son parable because, as I've said, not all Prodigals return home to somehow suggest OSAS is true on that basis, and 2) the parable does not address the fate of the Prodigal who does not come home. Most of exiled Israel, for example, chose not to come home, preferring to stay in the land of their captors. They rejected the gifts and calling of God.

The parable of the prodigal was speaking of one son. And it is that parable that speaks of eternal security in The Father. Appropriate being the eternally saved are one in Christ. One son, one daughter.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The parable of the prodigal was speaking of one son. And it is that parable that speaks of eternal security in The Father. Appropriate being the eternally saved are one in Christ. One son, one daughter.

Like I say, the parable speaks nothing of the son who does not return. And yet OSAS uses the parable to prove that OSAS is true because the father received the returning son. Which is actually more in line with a non-OSAS argument--the son had to return in order to continue to be saved. But I do not use it for that purpose. There's too many other plain passages of scripture that teach us non-OSAS.

You do know hyper-grace OSAS says the son who does not return remains saved, don't you?

 

[FreeGrace]

I don't believe OSAS doctrine based on the Prodigal Son parable because, as I've said, not all Prodigals return home

But what reject eternal security based on the sealing with the Holy Spirit from Eph 1:13,14 and 4:30, or that Jesus promises that those who believe will never perish or that those He gives eternal life (and there are NO verses that says that He takes away eternal life) will never perish?

Most of exiled Israel, for example, chose not to come home, preferring to stay in the land of their captors. They rejected the gifts and calling of God.

Yet, you've admitted that one cannot describe ANY gift of God from ch 11. But Paul plainly described 3 such gifts of God before he wrote 11:29, all of which gifts you've rejected as being irrevocable.

But, even though they did that, God did not revoke the gifts and calling.

God doesn't revoke ANY of His gifts that Paul plainly described in the context of the letter to the Romans.

A remnant of Israelites to this day getting saved proves that God did not revoke that gift and calling from them altogether (Romans 11:28-29 NASB), even though Israel as a nation has been cut out of the tree (Romans 11:20 NASB).

The fact that anyone gets saved means they HAVE eternal life, which is described as a gift of God in Rom 6:23. And that gift is irrevocable, thus refuting those who reject eternal security.