25 quotes on Calvinism

[brightfame52]

Hello BF, let's see what we have here. I think when we agree on most things, there are sometimes small things that cause two people to not agree.

Now, we agree on many things as stated. Does the bible teach, election, reprobation, repentance, regeneration, sanctification, Total Depravity, Particular Redemption, etc. It is safe to say we do not differ on these main categories.
The Command in Acts 17 says:but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent:

All men everywhere would include [elect persons, and non elect persons] If it is all men everywhere. The article I offered clearly stated this;

{"Duty faith is the teaching that it is the duty or obligation towards God of the natural man (unregenerated person) to believe unto eternal salvation, even if it is impossible for him to do so in his spiritually dead condition. }


So to be clear, you see a distinction in this text that takes the all men, to mean not the Jew only, but gentiles who are already regenerated before they repent???
Saving faith and repentance happen in real time simultaneously.
From the Divine side, it is certain before time was 2tim.1:9. yet it happens in real time Eph2:1-5
We are conceived as sinners who need regeneration and conversion.

I agree that we get the whole package IN Christ. That being said, we are not saved from our sins until we are given a new heart, and indwelt by the Spirit of God. While Jesus accomplished redemption at the cross as our mediator, surety, and Great High Priest, as His part of the Covenant of Redemption and not one will be lost, salvation happens in real time. We openly confess that salvation by our public baptism. We do not intentionally baptize unbelievers.

Yes, I agree , believers receive all of this at the moment they are quickened by the Spirit.

I agree it is to be preached...and that everyone believing will receive this salvation. I am told that every believing one, will be saved,jn3:15,16. I know that only the elect are going to be effectually, and irresistibly drawn to saving faith, but once again, as we do not know who they are, we preach to all men everywhere, explaining what the are called to believe.

I agree that the non elect reprobate will never repent and believe the gospel. They will die in their sins and perish sadly. That does not mean that the command to repent is not a command. As stated above in red..

I do not say they have forgiveness of sins, neither does any Calvinist say such a thing. The non elect persons do not have the Spirit of God. They do not know the love of God which is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.



Once again...when we face sinners and preach or teach God's truth, we do not know if the sinner we are speaking with is elect, or reprobate. So we freely preach and offer the truth of the gospel of the Kingdom.

Again, Repentance is in light of forgiveness' of sins, and the non elect dont have it. Also the none elect unregenerate are under the curse of the law, they owe obedience to it since Christ didn't render obedience to it on their behalf.

 

[Iconoclast]

I disagree that its the duty of all men to be saved, for Christ didnt even die for all men.

It is the duty of all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.
I did not say it was the duty of all men to be saved. I would never make such a statement,
Unsaved men cannot save themselves.
Unsaved men who repent and believe the gospel by a God given faith will be saved
I never tell men Christ died for you. I can tell them Christ died to save sinners.
Jesus died a Covenant death for all The Father gave to Him, no more, no less.

 

[brightfame52]

In a discussion like this, we need to slow down and clarify what we are both saying and hearing.


No where did I say it is the duty of a non elect person to be saved eternally. Salvation is of the Lord, not the non elect people. The gospel call declares the duty of fallen, ungodly, rebels to repent and believe the gospel no matter if they can, or cannot do it.


Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

So the non elect should believe the record on how God saves sinners, not that Christ died for them and they're responsible to believe and be saved. In fact we should never tell anyone that Christ died for them, but be faithful in telling them exactly who He died for and saved.

 

[brightfame52]

It is the duty of all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.
I did not say it was the duty of all men to be saved. I would never make such a statement,
Unsaved men cannot save themselves.
Unsaved men who repent and believe the gospel by a God given faith will be saved
I never tell men Christ died for you. I can tell them Christ died to save sinners.
Jesus died a Covenant death for all The Father gave to Him, no more, no less.

I disagree, the non elect are under the curse of the Law, they owe obedience to the law, its moral precepts, and its penalty friend. There is no repentance under the law, you either do it or be damned.

 

[Iconoclast]

Again, Repentance is in light of forgiveness' of sins, and the non elect dont have it.

They happen at the moment of Justification.

Also the none elect unregenerate are under the curse of the law, they owe obedience to it since Christ didn't render obedience to it on their behalf.

Now , we both agree on this, but be consistent. If we agree they
[are under the curse of the law, they owe obedience to it]...... That says to me it is their DUTY...... to keep the law 100% if they are to enter heaven on the basis of what they do. They cannot do it of course. That does not mean it is not their duty, like when the rich young ruler asks Jesus...mt1916 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

 

[Iconoclast]

I disagree, the non elect are under the curse of the Law, they owe obedience to the law, its moral precepts, and its penalty friend. There is no repentance under the law, you either do it or be damned.

Now , we both agree on this, but be consistent. If we agree they
[are under the curse of the law, they owe obedience to it]...... That says to me it is their DUTY...... to keep the law 100% if they are to enter heaven on the basis of what they do. They cannot do it of course. That does not mean it is not their duty, like when the rich young ruler asks Jesus...mt1916 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

 

[Iconoclast]

So the non elect should believe the record on how God saves sinners, not that Christ died for them and they're responsible to believe and be saved. In fact we should never tell anyone that Christ died for them, but be faithful in telling them exactly who He died for and saved.

yes, we can tell them this as I said earlier;
5 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[brightfame52]

They happen at the moment of Justification.

Now , we both agree on this, but be consistent. If we agree they
[are under the curse of the law, they owe obedience to it]...... That says to me it is their DUTY...... to keep the law 100% if they are to enter heaven on the basis of what they do. They cannot do it of course. That does not mean it is not their duty, like when the rich young ruler asks Jesus...mt1916 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Forgiveness comes through the shed blood

 

[brightfame52]

Now , we both agree on this, but be consistent. If we agree they
[are under the curse of the law, they owe obedience to it]...... That says to me it is their DUTY...... to keep the law 100% if they are to enter heaven on the basis of what they do. They cannot do it of course. That does not mean it is not their duty, like when the rich young ruler asks Jesus...mt1916 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

You do know that obedience to the law isnt obedience to the Gospel. And obedience to the law brings no salvation, sorry

 

[brightfame52]

yes, we can tell them this as I said earlier;
5 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Telling people that Christ came into the world to save sinners isnt the complete story, the good news is the sinners He came to save are saved, its finished. You have to let people know that Christ has redeemed His People to God

 

[Iconoclast]

Forgiveness comes through the shed blood

Yes it does....the unbelieving are not forgiven, but rather die in their sins.

 

[Iconoclast]

You do know that obedience to the law isnt obedience to the Gospel.

Yes...I do know that.

And obedience to the law brings no salvation, sorry

I did not say it did, as all died in Adam.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes it does....the unbelieving are not forgiven, but rather die in their sins.

The unbelieving elect are forgiven by the blood of Christ, though sooner or later they shall hear about their forgiveness and believe. However they are born forgiven.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes...I do know that.

I did not say it did, as all died in Adam.

Those for whom Christ did not die have a debt to pay to the Law, they either pay it or die. Its not a very favorable position they are in.

 

[Iconoclast]

Telling people that Christ came into the world to save sinners isnt the complete story, the good news is the sinners He came to save are saved, its finished. You have to let people know that Christ has redeemed His People to God

I use all five points when I present the gospel. No one sentence tells the full story.

 

[Iconoclast]

The unbelieving elect are forgiven by the blood of Christ, though sooner or later they shall hear about their forgiveness and believe. However they are born forgiven.

No.....God has ordained our salvation before the world was. It is fixed and certain.
We are not born forgiven, but rather:Eph.2
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

even as others

 

[brightfame52]

I use all five points when I present the gospel. No one sentence tells the full story.

thats good but its very important to tell people that Christ actually saved His People from their sins, not made it possible or available and all that nonsense. Tell people also He gives repentance, that's His blessing Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Thats why repentance should be preached in His Name Lk 24:47

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

He is to get the credit for both repentance and forgiveness, He purchased them by His Blood to bestow on His Elect. Its not a duty friend

 

[Fastfredy0]

It's everyone's duty to obey God. It's that simple.

If God says: "Do not murder" then it is everyone's duty to not murder.
If God says: "You must believe in His Christ to be saved" then it is everyone's duty to believe.

Christ did not die for everyone, yet everyone is responsible (it their duty) to believe.

One such conflate one's duty and the fact that Christ did not die for everyone. (false equivalency)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Where do you see in 1 Cor 15:3-4 He is the Son of God ?

I don't see that phrase in 1 Cor 15.
I do see it in 83 other places in the NT.
Do you think the Jesus who died for our sins, and was raised from the dead three days later, would have been preached without that bit of information ?
I don't.

 

[brightfame52]

No.....God has ordained our salvation before the world was. It is fixed and certain.
We are not born forgiven, but rather:Eph.2
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

even as others

The unbelieving elect are forgiven by the blood of Christ, though sooner or later they shall hear about their forgiveness and believe. However they are born forgiven. What the elect were by nature was forgiven, that body of sin was imputed to Christ friend. Thats what Christ died for, what the elect are by nature, so its forgiven.