7000 Years is Not Enough

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

What else would their testimony be if not of testifying of God before men. Why would the beast bother to kill them if they were God's enemy? Why were the Prophets, Jesus and the Apostles killed if not to silence them as others were tormented by the words they spoke of God.

What can I do to clean up/remove this post? The conversation has been completely off topic for the last 8 pages.

 

[for_his_glory]

People we have been getting way off from the OP derailing this thread which is about 7000 years is not enough. Please direct all replies to that of the OP or they will be deleted. Thank you.

No need to reply to this.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

If someone would like to discuss the original topic, please do.

 

[JT4444]

Hi Jarhead4Jesus

I sent a request. But either way, both calendars support a young earth...if we are to believe that from either calendar beginning there were only 6 rotations of the earth that defined the rest of the creation account.

God bless,
Ted

See Dr. Gerald Schroeder's work that explains how the seven days of Creation and the scientific understanding of the age of the universe are reconciled. The Hebrew calendar begins from the time Adam received his "neshama" (or soul). The first 5.5 days expands to 15 billion years. Space-time is actually relative, and there are two calendars embedded in the seven days of Creation.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

See Dr. Gerald Schroeder's work that explains how the seven days of Creation and the scientific understanding of the age of the universe are reconciled. The Hebrew calendar begins from the time Adam received his "neshama" (or soul). The first 5.5 days expands to 15 billion years. Space-time is actually relative, and there are two calendars embedded in the seven days of Creation.

I take the Genesis account of creation in the literal sense. Also, God summarized it again in Exodus 20:11 'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' Since our salvation is based on faith in God's word, it makes sense that the heart of man would look at the physical world and view it contrary to the truth.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Shilohsfoal, thank you for expanding on your previous comment. I'm not sure, but we may be talking about different things. The original article is about scripture which supports the theory that the fulness of time will be 7049 years, rather than the common assumption of 7000 years.

There is no dispute with the passage from Luke.

Concerning Israel, I completely agree. Israel is the primary scale on which we must weigh the remainder of Bible prophecy.

I've never read the fullness of time is 7000 years .Scripture teaches that the land of Canaan will be given to Abraham and his seed for an everlasting possession and that the kingdom set up there will never be destroyed.Scripture does not say that kingdom is destroyed after 1000 years.

Daniel 7
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.


I'm quite sure Christs kingdom is everlasting.Gog and the nations may attempt to overthrow that kingdom after 1000 years but it is a failed attempt.The kingdom continues and Gog will be given a burial place.

 

[miamited]

See Dr. Gerald Schroeder's work that explains how the seven days of Creation and the scientific understanding of the age of the universe are reconciled. The Hebrew calendar begins from the time Adam received his "neshama" (or soul). The first 5.5 days expands to 15 billion years. Space-time is actually relative, and there are two calendars embedded in the seven days of Creation.

Hi JT4444

There are certainly a lot of guesses as to 'how' we got to be here in the year we denote as 2023 A.D. The only one that I know to have been there that can tell us the truth of those days is God. He wrote a book about it! I am one who believes that God said what He meant and meant what He said.

God bless,
Ted

 

[JT4444]

I take the Genesis account of creation in the literal sense. Also, God summarized it again in Exodus 20:11 'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' Since our salvation is based on faith in God's word, it makes sense that the heart of man would look at the physical world and view it contrary to the truth.

Schroeder takes it literally as well. Time is relative, however. This idea pre-dates Christianity, but it was never carried over into the Early Church, but science confirms this.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Genesis 3:15 is the messianic (Christ to the Greek) prophecy, so the idea of pre-dating Christianity is not possible. However, pre-dating the first century church is, I think, more along the lines of what you're saying.

Of course, paganism also pre-dates the first century church, and Abraham...

 

[JT4444]

Genesis 3:15 is the messianic (Christ to the Greek) prophecy, so the idea of pre-dating Christianity is not possible. However, pre-dating the first century church is, I think, more along the lines of what you're saying.

That is what I meant. Up until fairly recently, most scientists believed that the universe had no beginning. The Big Bang is consistent with Genesis. There is no discrepancy.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

I get wary when terms like 'Big Bang' come up. LOL

I (obviously) believe that there was a beginning, and that the world as we know it will end. The term 'Big Bang' tends to carry with it some connotations that are most often used in discussions of evolution, which I do not believe. As it pertains to scientific 'knowledge', as with archeological 'knowledge'. The more we look at it, the more it changes. Whereas with scripture, the more we look at it, the more it's borne out.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

JT, have you done a biblical timeline? If so, have you shared it in the forum somewhere? If not, I highly recommend looking into. It's been very beneficial for me and has increased my faith in the truth of scripture.

 

[JT4444]

I get wary when terms like 'Big Bang' come up. LOL

I (obviously) believe that there was a beginning, and that the world as we know it will end. The term 'Big Bang' tends to carry with it some connotations that are most often used in discussions of evolution, which I do not believe. As it pertains to scientific 'knowledge', as with archeological 'knowledge'. The more we look at it, the more it changes. Whereas with scripture, the more we look at it, the more it's borne out.

I don't believe that science and religion are incompatible. The Bible is not a science textbook anymore than it's an auto repair manual

The nature of time and the two calendars that exist within the Creation week did not carry over into what we call Christianity. Also, the fact that space-time is one and relative has only been widely accepted for the last century or so. As a result, it was necessary to believe that the time up until the creation of Adam was from an earthly perspective, just like the time after the creation of Adam.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

I certainly agree that the first five 'days' of the creation week were the same as the rest. A plain reading of the text of scripture. Many have determined that those seven days are a template for the full expanse of human history, and I agree. Although, I believe that the template also includes the time of Satan's deceit. After the creation week (Genesis 3) and again after the thousand-year reign of Christ (Revelation 20). All of which, I view in a literal sense.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Concerning science, I don't see why a Christian would think that true scientific study would produce anything other than evidence of God's handiwork. Of course, if a scientist's world-view does not allow for the supernatural, then the scope of their research is self-restricted.

 

[JT4444]

I certainly agree that the first five 'days' of the creation week were the same as the rest. A plain reading of the text of scripture. Many have determined that those seven days are a template for the full expanse of human history, and I agree. Although, I believe that the template also includes the time of Satan's deceit. After the creation week (Genesis 3) and again after the thousand-year reign of Christ (Revelation 20). All of which, I view in a literal sense.

God is going to work out his plan for humanity in 7,000 or so years. A day is as a thousand years. This belief existed before Christ's first coming, and it continues today among Jews and Christians.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

It's been a lot of fun building the biblical timeline in Excel. It makes referencing events and keeping notes simple. Using the factors of 7049 for the grid dimensions (7x1007, 19x371, 53x133, 133x53, 371x19) has made it easier to find patterns as well. Just been taking notes and putting it together as I come across numbers and dates, since I'm reading through the Old Testament anyway. Starting in Jeremiah tomorrow. So far, it all snaps together like lego's.

 

[reddogs]

Many Christians subscribe to the theory that the fullness of time will be a flat 7000 years. This generally comes from the creation week. Since there were six days of creation and one day of rest, that translates to six thousand years of man’s struggle and one thousand years of Christ’s rule.

There’s plenty of scripture to back up the idea... Most commonly,

2 Peter 3:8 “…one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

and

Hosea 6:2 “After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.”

This passage in Hosea is what gives many of us the idea that Christ will not return until after two-thousand years. We tend to call it the ‘age of grace’ or ‘the time of the gentiles.’

I agree with the general idea of seven millennia, but a flat 7000 years does not work with scripture. Allow me to explain.

Revelation 20:1-3, 7-8
“1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Also…

“7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.”

From this passage we see that Satan is not released until after the thousand-year reign of Christ has ‘expired’. This means that either the thousand-year reign of Christ begins before the 6000th year, or that the thousand-year reign of Christ is not a literal 1000 years, or that the fullness of time will be more than a flat 7000 years.

I reject the first possibility because I (like so many others) have read the Bible and mapped it out on a timeline. Christ was born in 3997AM and was crucified and resurrected in 4031AM. It seems that many others have come to similar conclusions, all of which shows that Christ lived well past the 4000-year mark. Thus, if He doesn’t return for 2000 years, then the date of His return must be after the year 6000, which won’t leave enough time for a full thousand-year reign of Christ. Not to mention the ‘little season’ where Satan is loosed to deceive the nations, the Great White Throne Judgement and New Jerusalem.

I also reject the second possibility. There is nothing in the text of Revelation 20 that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the thousand-year reign of Christ means anything less than a literal 1000 years.

So, that leaves the third possibility.

There will have to be more than just 7000 years, but how much more? I’m glad you asked…

Remember that ‘little season’ when Satan is to be loosed? It turns out that scripture doesn’t use that phrase very often, but before we see how scripture defines a ‘little season’, let’s take a quick look at how scripture defines a ‘long season’. Fortunately, it doesn’t use that phrase much either.

The term ‘long season’ only appears twice and has the same Strong’s definition (H3117).

Joshua 24:7 “And when they cried unto the LORD, he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and brought the sea upon them, and covered them; and your eyes have seen what I have done in Egypt: and ye dwelt in the wilderness a long season.”

Here we can see that a ‘long season’ is clearly defined as a 40-year span of time.

2 Chronicles 15:3 “Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.”

Here we have to read the surrounding context (2 Chronicles 14-15:10) to figure it out. From the start of Jeroboam’s reign (King of Israel) until the 15th year of Asa’s reign (King of Judah) was 34 years.

So, a ‘long season’, as shown by examples in scripture is about 34 to 40 years.

The phrase ‘little season’ only appears twice, both times in the Revelation and both times with the same Strong’s definition (G5550).

Revelation 6:11 “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”

Here we see the only other use of the phrase ‘little season’ and it appears during the Fifth Seal. All seven of the seals are associated with the time of the Tribulation, which spans a total of seven years. This Fifth Seal event must occur at some point in the middle since it resulted from the first four seals. Therefore, a ‘little season’ is shown by example in scripture to be less than 7 years, probably 3 to 5 years.

So, this brings us back to the question, how long will Satan be loosed to deceive the nations? According to scripture, less than seven years.

According to Revelation 20:7, Satan will be loosed as soon as the 1000 years of Christ’s reign have ‘expired’.

So, we can add the ‘less than 7 years’ to the 1000 years and considering that there isn’t anything left afterwards but the Great White Throne Judgement and New Jerusalem, I believe that this indicates no more than 1007 years.

But wait, there’s more…

The time after the thousand-year reign of Christ is not the only occurrence where scripture indicates a span of time beyond the 1000yrs=day as mentioned in 2 Peter 3:8.

Let’s take another look at Hosea 6:2 “After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.”

If you think about it, ‘after two days’, is the same as ‘in the third day’.

But this is indicating something else.

What it’s saying is that after 2000 years (2 days) God will ‘revive’ Israel. This will be done through the time of Jacobs trouble (the Tribulation). It’s referring to the 144,000, which are comprised of 12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel.

So, the Tribulation will take place after ‘two days’ (2000 years) from Christ, and before His thousand-year reign. The thousand-year reign of Christ is the ‘third day’ mentioned in the passage. Israel will indeed be raised up and live in His sight, along with all other believers that have been saved by His grace!

This shows that the ‘day = 1000 years’ of 2 Peter 3:8 is true, but that there is another seven years of real time that passes in between.

As indicated in scripture, the fullness of time cannot be a flat 7000 years, but rather, it will be 7 spans of 1007 years, or a total of 7049 years.

‘But wait’, I can hear you say, ‘it could be a little less, or a little more. Why 1007 years?’ Again, I’m glad that you asked…

Let’s take a look at the beginning and the end of time, through the lens of 2 Peter 3:8

According to Genesis 1 and 2, there were 6 days of creation and then one day when God rested (the first Shabbat). Genesis 3 picks up immediately after that day of rest (the 7th day). In the early morning of the 8th day is when the serpent deceived Eve. After-which, God called to them while He was walking in the ‘cool of the day’.

Genesis 3:15 is where the messianic prophecy is given.

So, at the beginning there were 7 days. In that 7th day mankind was at peace with God. The very next day Satan came to deceive.

In Revelation 20 we read that after Christ returns, Satan will be bound 1000 years. A thousand-years that Christ, the Prince of Peace, will reign over the whole earth. Once that time has expired, Satan will be loosed into the last 7 years to deceive the nations.

As it says in 2 Peter 3:8, ‘…one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.’

So, one day (the 7th day) is with the Lord as a thousand years (1000-year reign of Christ), and a thousand years as one day.

The messianic prophecy that began in Genesis 3:15 is finished in Revelation 20:15.

So, as the 7th day (the first Shabbat) was preceded by the days of creation, the 1000-year reign of Christ will be followed by 7 years in which sin is dealt with and the heavens and earth are passed away.

I believe that Jesus created the Heavens and the Earth, and all that in them is. I also believe that He designed everything from atoms to asteroid belts.

This includes time itself.

Jesus is the Master Engineer!

Everything was designed by Him, and I believe that He has left His fingerprints all over everything, including the timeline.

If we look, He will reveal them to us.

One way to see this design would be to look at the increments that time has been divided into. Like the hands of a clock. Hours, minutes, seconds.

These increments must be relevant to both the physical world and scriptural events.

Each of the factors of 7049 are relevant to our world and the timeline of scripture (Not so with 7000).

The point is not only that 7000 years is not enough, but that the factors of 7049 reveal the glory of Jesus’ masterful engineering of time itself.

You can twist scripture to say almost anything including that Satan was just trying to help everyone to see both sides of coin in good and evil. But as for when the Lord will come thats up to Him and man cant decide that, so better not to wait but be ready now as you never know about tomorrow.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

It's certainly not up to man to decide when Christ will return.

Although He did give some parameters in Hosea 5:15 'I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hosea 6:1-2 'Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.'

Prophetically speaking, this gives us an idea of how long it will be before 'Judah' and 'Ephraim' are driven to 'acknowledge their offence.'

Still, it is indeed far better to know Him (Jesus) now, and not wait for 'signs'.

 

[JT4444]

It's certainly not up to man to decide when Christ will return.

Although He did give some parameters in Hosea 5:15 'I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hosea 6:1-2 'Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.'

Prophetically speaking, this gives us an idea of how long it will be before 'Judah' and 'Ephraim' are driven to 'acknowledge their offence.'

Still, it is indeed far better to know Him (Jesus) now, and not wait for 'signs'

The idea that Christ will return by the year 6000 anno mundi is common in Christianity. Those 6,000 years are followed by the millennium.

The Jews also believe that "Moshiach" (the Messiah) must come by the year 6000 based on the same OT sources. Of course, we believe that he came in the meridian of time and will fulfill the remaining prophecies at His Second Coming.