7th day adventist. Are they a cult?

[guibox]

The largest fault of the SDA is that it was formed by a woman suffering from delirious visions. That and their insistence to follow the commandments 'as they SEE fit'. Their means of indoctrination are reminiscent of 'scientolgist' as well.
MEC

I await your 'proof' and 'evidence' on both the issues mentioned above.

 

[Imagican]

I leave it up to YOU to offer some evidence that refutes what I have stated. The proof of what I have offered is UP TO YOU to discover on your own if you refuse to accept what I have offered.

I thought EVERYONE that knew ANYTHING about the SDA were aware of the role of Ellen White in the FORMATION of this 'religion'.

And having been confronted by the 'scientologist' and experiencing thier elaborate means of indoctrination, I have 'first hand' experience of this.

My wife once went to a 'six-week siminar' offered by the SDA. At one point she asked that I join her to offer my opinion on thier teachings. Boy, what a 'trip' that was.

They had hired this 'perfect haired', 'slick dressed', man and his wife to present this 'siminar', (guy was as 'slick' as ANY car salesman that I have EVER encountered). He was an INCREDIBLE spokesman. After one of their 'sessions', I sat with this man to discuss their teachings from a 'scriptural standpoint'. From the VERY beginning of our conversation he made it perfectly clear that he was COMPLETELY unaware of the 'truth' concerning MUCH that he attempted to alter concerning what The Bible offers. I won't go into minute detail, but this guy was a 'hired lackey' who's knowledge of scripture was LIMITED to what was needed to influence those that were MORE ignorant of scripture than himself.

Yet these folks had gone 'all out' with their 'powerpoint' presentation and their elaborate videos. Completely 'high tech'. And these guys didn't believe in eating meat. Insisted that the Sabbath laws were to be observed COMPLETELY, (yet when I confronted them on this point, in actuality they ONLY observe 'part' of the Sabbath law).

So, here's ALL the proof that I needed to form MY OPINION which is what I offered previous. Whether you choose to accept it is UP TO YOU. If you would like to prove the FACT of Ellen Whites delirious visions..............'I' watched a nicely produced film about their 'Ellen White' that THEY CREATED, and in this film it showed a 're enactment of her 'delirious visions'.

So, I went to their 'church', listened to their speaker. Watched their video, and actually 'tried' to discuss their doctrine with him. Whether or not I am right or they are right in their interpretation of scripture is ABSOLUTELY debatable to anyone that chooses to 'take sides'. But what I offered in my first post IS what I observed PERSONALLY.

MEC

 

[guibox]

And Imagican, if I went to two separate Baptist or Pentacostal meetings, I would probably have come away with two separate opinions on what they were like. One evangelists doesn't represent the whole thing.

'delirious visions' and 'scientology' recruitment strategies are strictly your opinion (which seems very biased to begin with).

For the record, I have been an SDA for 22 years and I have seen nothing different in evangelist/bible meetings that I dont' see on TV every Sunday morning (You want to talk about some 'car salesmen!).

It is so easy to judge other dcenominations and point the finger when there is much more that could be considered 'delirious' just in the Pentacostal faith alone.

So tell me, who's opinion makes more sense, yours from the occasional contact or mine from 22 years of immersion?

Take your opinion for what it is..your opinion based on your experience. It sure isn't the full truth and shouldn't be portrayed to folks as is.

 

[Jay T]

What EXACTLY is a 'cult'. From the standpoint of MOST denominations, ANY OTHER denomination would fall under this heading.

And, you are correct....any other denomination would and does....fall into that heading.

A 'cult' is often decribed as people following a person, who falls away from what the Bible teaches, generally.

The world's largest cult, is the Catholic church (1 billion members worldwide), because the people follow what their leader (Pope) teaches....never mind, what the Bible says !

What is amazing is the fact that the vast majority of the modern Chrtistian world, follows many of the doctrines of the Catholic church.....such as Sunday worship services, The Immortal Soul Doctrine, the Secret Rapture theory... Eternally-burning hellfire......ect....ect.

But then, doesn't the Bible predict......'satan, which deceives the whole world' (Revelation 12:9).

 

[Atonement]

Since the Old Testament commanded people to observe the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week, why have most Christian churches switched their day of worship to Sunday, the first day of the week?

Not all churches answer this question the same way. Some groups, most notably the Seventh-day Adventists, still worship on the seventh day. They argue that the sabbath was one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20), and is therefore part of God's permanent will for His people. They often claim that the shift to Sunday was part of a great apostasy that allowed pagan ideas to infiltrate the church during the early centuries (see Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 58-59).

Other Christian groups say that Sunday is the Christian version of the sabbath. They suggest that the main point of God's command to observe the sabbath was not the seventh day, but the idea of one day out of the seven. Jesus claimed that he was "lord even of the sabbath" (Mark 2:28), and therefore had the authority to change it to a different day. This position argues that Jesus changed the day to Sunday as a way of extending its blessing from the Jews to the whole world.

Still others Christians would say that we no longer observe the Jewish sabbath, but worship instead on Sunday, a distinctively Christian holy day. They argue that the early church very soon began meeting on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus, which took place on the first day of the week.

At the very beginning, the church in Jerusalem met every day in the temple and in private homes (Acts 2:46). Since the first believers were all Jewish, it seems safe to assume that they continued to participate in Jewish synagogue and temple worship for some time.

However, the New Testament makes it clear that the observance of a particular day was not imposed as a binding obligation. Romans 14:5-6 makes it clear that there was some freedom in the matter of special days. Colossians 2:16-17 commanded the church not to allow anyone to act as their judge in regard to sabbath days. And Galatians 4:9-10 warns against going back under the Law by insisting on the legal requirement of special days.

The records that remain in the New Testament show that the first day of the week soon became a day of worship. When Paul wanted to collect an offering from the church at Corinth, he asked them to gather the money on the "first day of the week" (1 Cor. 16:2). And when he wanted to meet with the believers at Troas, the gathering took place "on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread" (Acts 20:7).

In Revelation 1:10, the apostle John described himself as being "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day." Most writers have thought he was referring to Sunday, so that our use of "the Lord's Day" as a term for Sunday comes from this verse.

There is no Scripture passage that specifically teaches that the sabbath has been transferred from one day to another. It seems most likely that the shift from Saturday to Sunday was gradual, and took place along with the change from a mostly Jewish church to a mostly Gentile one. The early church fathers generally viewed sabbath as a Jewish observance, and the Lord's Day as the proper Christian observance.


For example, Ignatius wrote in the early 100's A.D., describing Christians with a Jewish background as those who "have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death" (Magnesians 9 ) [Editor's note: Magnesians is a letter written to the church at Magnesia by Ignatius, a church father, also called Theophorus.]
A person's decision concerning sabbath observance probably hinges on the question of how we view the entire Old Testament. If all of it is still binding on us, then so is the sabbath. If there are parts that are no longer binding because they were directed specifically to the Jewish nation, or because they were for ritual purposes, then the sabbath is open for discussion.
No matter what position a person takes, it is important to recognize that God has a claim to all of my time. When I give Him one day of the week, it reminds me that He owns all seven!

For a much more detailed discussion of this question, consult the Zondervan Pictorial Bible Encyclopedia articles on "Sabbath" and "Lord's Day."

 

[guibox]

They often claim that the shift to Sunday was part of a great apostasy that allowed pagan ideas to infiltrate the church during the early centuries (see Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 58-59).

Other Christian groups say that Sunday is the Christian version of the sabbath. They suggest that the main point of God's command to observe the sabbath was not the seventh day, but the idea of one day out of the seven. Jesus claimed that he was "lord even of the sabbath" (Mark 2:28), and therefore had the authority to change it to a different day. This position argues that Jesus changed the day to Sunday as a way of extending its blessing from the Jews to the whole world.

Still others Christians would say that we no longer observe the Jewish sabbath, but worship instead on Sunday, a distinctively Christian holy day. They argue that the early church very soon began meeting on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus, which took place on the first day of the week.

To me there are only two valid options:

1) Either Saturday, the seventh day Sabbath is valid

or

2) Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath and there is no more need of any 'sabbath day'

The appeal to the NT to support Sunday worship is completely lacking. As Atonement mentioned, they met 'every day' to break bread (which meant to fellowship, not to have a Eucharistic celebration). Paul told people to put away money on the first day of the week because he was coming in at the end. This makes sense because by the end of the week, ones wages would most likely be spent. This doesn't give one the impression that this was a weekly occurance but a special one because of the circumstances of Paul coming their way. Paul's message at Troas was really recorded because of the miracle of Paul bringing back the guy who fell fron the window, not because there was a 'Sunday sermon that happened once a week'. According to Jewish reckoning, Paul was speaking on Saturday night planning to 'leave on the morrow' or on Sunday. If Sunday was a the 'new Sabbath' or a 'holy day', I doubt Paul would have understaken such a journey. Instead we see that Sunday had no special importance added to it but was always called 'the first day of the week'.

One must go to the early church fathers to support the trend to abandon the Sabbath by most of Christendom.

However, this doesn't mean that the Christian church didn't see the validity of the Sabbath. Far from the apostolic Christians believing the Sabbath was no longer valid or had been replaced by Sunday gathering and worship, the head church in Jerusalem kept the Sabbath well into the 5th century.

 

[SputnikBoy]

It would take a very brave Christian denomination indeed to bite the bullet and admit that it has its 'holy day' wrong. In fact, the only alternative available to them is to defend the 'Sunday Sabbath' as best they can. This is necessary for their survival. And, this defense of Sunday as the holy day of the week is what we see all the time on forums such as this. The Christian Church has been the representative of God's truth for centuries. The ramifications behind admitting that they not only have it wrong but have also been perpetuating a lie would be far reaching. Mainstream Christianity would collapse into a heap. They (mainstream Christianity) will never allow this to happen so it's up to the individual to seek out the truth for themselves. While the lay person may have an excuse to remain ignorant to the facts, I see no valid reason why those who have studied theology indepth would trade Saturday for Sunday.

 

[Oscar3]

Jay T and other SDA's here.

by your logic, Jesus broke the commandment of ''be fruitful and multiply;
Bring forth abundantly in the earth And multiply in it.â€Â

Since Jesus did not father any kids, did he not break this commandment?

Then again the SDA church probably thinks that the davinci code is also from God like Ellen . g White. :-? and that Jesus did have kids right. :wink:

 

[Oscar3]

This Bible prophecy predicts satan's attack against the SDA church.....because the SDA church keeps all the commandments of God, plus the have the testimony of Jesus Christ which is......the 'Spirit of Prophecy' (Revelarion 19:10).
And, wouldn't Prophets have, the Spirit of Prophecy within them ?


The Bible also has identified the SDA church in Revelation 14:12......
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Satan HATES the SDA church as Revelation 12:17 clearly points out, and, will slander it every chance he gets !!!

*Edited please refrain from posting inflammatory pictures, thanks, Administrator*

 

[reyjamiei]

If these folks' only peculiarity was that they met on Saturday to worship, we would have very little to worry about. But, they teach that Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast, and Sunday worshippers, they teach, are Satan worshippers. They may deny this, but as long as they keep quoting Ellen G White, they must have this vulgar heresy stuffed right back down their throats until they repent. Ms White was a heretic, and she added to the Scriptures.

Ellen White founded the Seventh-day Adventist church and members must vow
to believe that she was a prophet! From the 27 Fundamental beliefs, #17 "The gift
of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying
mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White.
As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of
truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction."

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20 ... t_cult.htm

EDITED

 

[guibox]

*Edited*

I completely protest your abhorrent picture that you have put on and it saddens me that you are allowed to get away with it (of course I'm not surprised). Even Walter Martin said that he would not call EGW a 'false prophet' according to biblical standards.

Of course, I haven't seen anything reasonable from you but constant slander and name calling of others. Why should that change for anybody outside of this forum.

Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[SputnikBoy]

*Edited*

That you are allowed to get away with this kind of thing astounds me, Oscar. You really DO appear to be a 'darling' of the mods.

Whether Ellen White was a prophet or not, whether she considered herself a prophet or not, whether she got it wrong as well as right, your picture above says more about the condition of your own heart than it does about the heart of E.G.W.

As I've said numerous times, I have never read or been influenced by any of her writings. I don't need to be. All I know is that she was a godly person who had a love - indeed a passion - for Jesus Christ. That she was also a human being with human failings doesn't lessen that fact.

Try to remember, Oscar (you often DO forget) that YOU are no better than Ellen White or any other Christian on this forum. What I always count on is that others on this forum will use their common sense when it comes to issues such as this one.

 

[Atonement]

Oscar, I agree that Ellen G. White teachings are false and I do not agree with her teachings at all. But Oscar posting this picture astounds me that you would even consider this on this site. So what I'm going to ask of you Oscar is that you apologize to the forum. I want that pictured deleted ASAP!! Oscar you have received a few warnings from us already. I will need to speak with the Admins about further action regarding your membership here at Christianforums.net


Picture edited already by Judy our Admin
Atonement

 

[guibox]

Thank you for looking into this, Atonement. It is much appreciated...

Edited: I do not think the rest was really necessary guibox.. Edit made by Atonement

 

[Judy]

Please, If you find something offensives "DON'T" quote it. Let one of the mods or administrators know.

 

[Atonement]

Thank you Judy

 

[SputnikBoy]

Thank you Judy AND Atonement.

 

[Atonement]

Hope that clears up the frustration on here. Your welcome

 

[SputnikBoy]

In all fairness to those who might consider the SDA Church a cult because of its leanings toward the writings of E.G.White, I also state my objections - albeit mildly - if ever a quote from Mrs. White is used in church by a pastor in lieu of an appropriate scriptural text. While the majority - if not all - of SDA teachings and church worship services are most certainly 'Jesus-centered', I DO feel that at least a few SDAs may have gotten the impression from some teachers that a 'nod' from Ellen White is a necessary addition to the Bible. This is foolishness, of course, and, from what I understand, she would not have approved of this.

I don't think EGW is so much the issue here. The issue appears to be more about what OTHERS might have done with her writings. While I will defend her integrity because I believe her to have been a godly woman (as well as the fact that she is not here to defend herself), Ellen White has never played a major part of my Christian walk. The most I ever hear about her is on forums such as this.

 

[Oscar3]

Hello All
I would like to oppologize for posting that picture of ellen G white and the devil.
I will be more careful in the pictures I post.