7th day adventist. Are they a cult?

[guibox]

In all fairness to those who might consider the SDA Church a cult because of its leanings toward the writings of E.G.White, I also state my objections - albeit mildly - if ever a quote from Mrs. White is used in church by a pastor in lieu of an appropriate scriptural text. While the majority - if not all - of SDA teachings and church worship services are most certainly 'Jesus-centered', I DO feel that at least a few SDAs may have gotten the impression from some teachers that a 'nod' from Ellen White is a necessary addition to the Bible. This is foolishness, of course, and, from what I understand, she would not have approved of this.

Absolutely SB. Based on EGWs comments on 'the scriptures above all' and how much she stressed that her writings were not to be the final authority, many today still do it. EGW would be mortified to see how many today are using her writings and putting her on a pedastal. So many who don't understand the facts of the matter and how many 80 years ago viewed EGW (especially those who knew her personally) might not be so quick to criticize her. So many have no clue what she was about.

A fellow Aussie of yours Dr. Graeme Bradford has studied EGW for 20 years and has published a book showing the 'humanness' and limitations of EGW and how she should be used. Needless to say, many who hold EGW to near infallibility are screaming 'heresy' and 'apostasy'.

Many are saying that this book is very much needed and had the truth of the matter come out a long time ago, we wouldn't have so many bitter critics of her from both former and non-SDAs.

 

[Jay T]

Absolutely SB. Based on EGWs comments on 'the scriptures above all' and how much she stressed that her writings were not to be the final authority, many today still do it. EGW would be mortified to see how many today are using her writings and putting her on a pedastal. So many who don't understand the facts of the matter and how many 80 years ago viewed EGW (especially those who knew her personally) might not be so quick to criticize her. So many have no clue what she was about.

And since the Bible tells us that satan hates the Tesimony of Jesus Christ (Revelation 12:17) , which is the Spirit of Prophecy (Revelation 19:10), which E. White had.....satan has, and will, attack the Writings of hers.

It has been my experience that those who reject E. White's writings will also reject many Bible texts as well !

THIS FACT, CAN BE PROVEN QUITE EASILY.

There is no such thing as rejecting any one of God's messengers, and accepting all the rest.
If as person rejcts one of God's messengers, they never stop at just one, they will rejct other Bible writers.

 

[Oscar3]

1. Source of Authority. Ellen G. White claimed to be, "a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light." The official SDA Questions on Doctrine (Q.D.) states that, "the Holy Spirit opened to her mind important events and called her to give certain instructions for these last days, and inasmuch as these instructions, in our understanding, are in harmony with the Word of God, which Word alone is able to make us wise unto salvation, we as a denomination accept them as inspired counsels from the Lord" (Q.D., p. 93). (Emphasis added.) Mrs. White claimed to have received more than 3,000 "inspired counsels from the Lord" (i.e., visions) between 1844 and 1868. (From these "visions," she produced over 100,000 handwritten manuscript pages from which were published 54 books!) Therefore, SDAs have a new source of authority in their lives -- according to SDA's dogma, if an SDA does not accept Mrs. White as infallible, they have no salvation!

2. Mankind. Seventh-Day Adventists do not believe that the whole man or any part of him is inherently "immortal" (Q.D., p. 518). SDAs believe in "soul sleep" for the saved (i.e., no conscious existence from the time of death until the resurrection), and annihilation for the wicked (i.e., the body and soul are destroyed at death rather than experiencing everlasting torment). How, then, can one get to heaven?: SDAs believe that one can have immortality only on the condition that he comes to Christ through Ellen G. White; i.e., a works program, following salvation by grace with light of revelation through Ellen G. White as the infallible guide to Holy Scripture, apart from which one cannot have immortality.3 Then, at resurrection day, the body will be re-created (necessary because of soul sleep) for all those who believe in White's guidance and teachings (while non-SDAs will remain in "soul sleep" forever; i.e., will cease to exist [annihilated] and will not suffer everlasting torment). :-D :-D


Jesus words in matthew 25
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.

44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You? 45 Then He will answer them, saying, Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Punishment in the Greek means torment.....

 

[Solo]

From the fundamental belief section of the Seventh-day Adventist Official Website concerning Ellen G. White:

• 18. The Gift of Prophecy:
  One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
  
  Retrieved from http://www.seventh-dayadventist.com/bel ... index.html

It should be noted that the Seventh-day Adventists give Ellen G. White the position of "Lord's messenger", and that her writings are a "continuing and authoritative source of truth" providing the "remnant" church "comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction". The additional statement that Ellen G. White's writings make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested, is a joke when she is lofted up as high as the SDA bunch lofts her.

Any statement that says that Ellen G. White does not influence the Seventh-day Adventist teachings contradicts the fundamental belief statement of the SDA church, and either the individual making the statement is lying, or the official statement is lying. Take your pick. My personal observation is that both are lying.

 

[Jay T]

Any statement that says that Ellen G. White does not influence the Seventh-day Adventist teachings contradicts the fundamental belief statement of the SDA church,

You are correct, to reject one of God's messengers, is to reject others.
As it has been my experience that those who reject E. white as a messenger from God will also reject other Bible writers.....such as Paul....Ezekiel....Moses....and, even Jesus Christ HIMSELF !

AND....I can prove this fact !

To be a Messenger of God is a dreadful thing, not to be coveted at All !!!
As almost every messenger from God has been persecuted, in some fashion.

I Understand why she didn't want to be a spokesperson for God, as she knew from the Biblical record, the results of such action.

 

[Solo]

You are correct, to reject one of God's messengers, is to reject others.
As it has been my experience that those who reject E. white as a messenger from God will also reject other Bible writers.....such as Paul....Ezekiel....Moses....and, even Jesus Christ HIMSELF !

AND....I can prove this fact !

To be a Messenger of God is a dreadful thing, not to be coveted at All !!!
As almost every messenger from God has been persecuted, in some fashion.

I Understand why she didn't want to be a spokesperson for God, as she knew from the Biblical record, the results of such action.

It is interesting that you hold a false prophet in such a high esteem. I know Ellen G. White to be a false prophet, and the SDA position holding her in high esteem on equal footing with the scriptures is no different than the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Scientolgy, Armstrongism, RCC, etc.

The shame is that you would hold Ellen G. White as an authority and still be a moderator on this forum. What a shame. Since you only cut and pasted a portion of my original post, I will post the entire post again.

From the fundamental belief section of the Seventh-day Adventist Official Website concerning Ellen G. White:
18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Retrieved from http://www.seventh-dayadventist.com/bel ... index.html
It should be noted that the Seventh-day Adventists give Ellen G. White the position of "Lord's messenger", and that her writings are a "continuing and authoritative source of truth" providing the "remnant" church "comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction". The additional statement that Ellen G. White's writings make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested, is a joke when she is lofted up as high as the SDA bunch lofts her.

Any statement that says that Ellen G. White does not influence the Seventh-day Adventist teachings contradicts the fundamental belief statement of the SDA church, and either the individual making the statement is lying, or the official statement is lying. Take your pick. My personal observation is that both are lying.

 

[guibox]

according to SDA's dogma, if an SDA does not accept Mrs. White as infallible, they have no salvation! .

:-D :-D :-D Oh, oscar, stop! You're killing me!! HAHAHAHA!!! I have yet to see this anywhere in our writings, or anywhere where this is stated or believed by even the most uber-conservative SDA. In all my 22 years as an SDA, I have never even seen somebody brave or foolish enough to try and put this forth as an argument against us.

In a serious sense...again I say, 'please stop'! You're embarassing yourself with such nonsense.

Mankind. Seventh-Day Adventists do not believe that the whole man or any part of him is inherently "immortal" (Q.D., p. 518). SDAs believe in "soul sleep" for the saved (i.e., no conscious existence from the time of death until the resurrection), and annihilation for the wicked (i.e., the body and soul are destroyed at death rather than experiencing everlasting torment). How, then, can one get to heaven?: SDAs believe that one can have immortality only on the condition that he comes to Christ through Ellen G. White; i.e., a works program, following salvation by grace with light of revelation through Ellen G. White as the infallible guide to Holy Scripture, apart from which one cannot have immortality.3 Then, at resurrection day, the body will be re-created (necessary because of soul sleep) for all those who believe in White's guidance and teachings (while non-SDAs will remain in "soul sleep" forever; i.e., will cease to exist [annihilated] and will not suffer everlasting torment).

And again I say....:-D :-D

EGW herself never claimed to be an 'infallible guide' to the scriptures and the pioneers of our church made it clear as day that there is no mandate (nor should there be) to making EGW the interpreter of scripture. Do your homework, oscar. This is complete nonsense and foolishness.

As for the 'soul sleep', we have proven this over and over and over again that this has been believed by Protestants and Catholic authorities scholars and laymen all the way from the Reformation. Go whine to William Tyndale and Martin Luther about it. Quit trying to make this a creation of EGW and the SDA church.

I can't believe I am wasting my breath trying to deal with this.

Jesus words in matthew 25
."

Punishment in the Greek means torment.....

Something you cannot not, nor have not proven. The punishment is 'death'. The Bible makes this clear over and over and over again. Eternal torment is not mentioned in the Bible, cannot be supported linguistically and most importantly is completely contradicted by text after text after text that show that God is not a tryant and that God's enemies will be completely destroyed.

Ignoring it doesn't make your version any truer.

 

[destiny]

What does it matter if the sda's are in error or not so long as they at one time have had a true salvation experience?
That would make them incapable of falling away because they are sealed.
Same would go with a practicing homosexual who has had a true salvation experience in his past ....he is sealed and can sin all he wants and only lose his rewards. OSAS! Right?

Of couse I am being sarcastic ....but I don't see how the doctrine of osas affords it's adherants any room to preach or accuse others who are claiming to have been saved. I find it puzzleing since a osas person can live a sinful life and still get to heaven, as some of you have said.
How could you even judge them by their fruit since they only lose rewards due to bad or rotten fruit?
Can't have it both ways.

 

[Solo]

What does it matter if the sda's are in error or not so long as they at one time have had a true salvation experience?
That would make them incapable of falling away because they are sealed.
Same would go with a practicing homosexual who has had a true salvation experience in his past ....he is sealed and can sin all he wants and only lose his rewards. OSAS! Right?

Of couse I am being sarcastic ....but I don't see how the doctrine of osas affords it's adherants any room to preach or accuse others who are claiming to have been saved. I find it puzzleing since a osas person can live a sinful life and still get to heaven, as some of you have said.
How could you even judge them by their fruit since they only lose rewards due to bad or rotten fruit?
Can't have it both ways.

The key to salvation is to be born again, not acquiring a position based on ones keeping of a list of works. The many, many that are on the broad path leading to destruction have rejected the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and have, instead traded it for a works salvation.

PS Your understanding of those that know Jesus Christ and his promise of eternal life as being free to sin is true. Your problem is that your understanding of God's grace is such that it doesn't gain a believer much after being born again. You have yet to keep yourself from sin, as is the case for all who live in the corrupt, mortal flesh. If your salvation is dependent upon your keeping the commandments, rules, etc. of your interpretation of the scripture, you are lost and going to hell; for noone is able to live in the flesh without falling. Read of Paul's sinfulness in Romans 7 and Romans 8. The flesh is sold under sin, and it wars with the inward man who is a new creature born of God.

 

[destiny]

Solo read...

Matthew 3:2 - John the Baptist taught, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"

Mark 1:15 - Mark's summary of Jesus' message includes: "Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Luke 13:3 - Unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Mark 6:12 - Jesus sent the apostles to preach that people should repent.

Acts 2:38 - In the first gospel sermon, Peter preached, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you for the remission of sins..."

Acts 17:30 - God commands all men everywhere to repent.

Romans 2:4,5 - Failure to repent treasures up wrath at the day of God's judgment of mankind. When people are in sin, telling them to repent is not unkind or cruel. It is an act of love, because only in this way can they correct their lives and receive eternal life.

Revelation 3:19 - "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent."

 

[Solo]

Jesus taught repent, believe, and follow him. Repentence is necessary, otherwise one cannot be born again. Repentence is an action that one takes after hearing the truth of the Word of God after being enabled by the Holy Spirit to see the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. After repenting from man's carnal ways and turning to the truth of God, man can believe in the works of Jesus Christ; His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. When this occurs, the believer is born again, born of the Spirit, born of God.

Does a Christian then become a little Jesus never sinning again?

Unfortunately, no; the believer is carting around a corrupt, mortal, carnal flesh that is sold under sin. A believer must constantly put the flesh under submission to the Spirit of God that dwells within them, for if they do not, they will sin after the flesh. When the believer sins after the flesh, does he/she lose his/her salvation? Never. Does God's grace abound greater than the sin of a believer? Yes, most definitely. Are believers to sin more so that God's grace abounds. God forbid. Does the OSAS teaching allow sinners to keep sinning without harm to their position of salvation in Christ Jesus? Yes, but as Paul wrote to the Corinthians, one that is involved in constant sin is to be spoken to about the sin, and if the person refuses to repent and walk in the spirit, then such a one is to be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the spirit be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 5:5).

Justification comes when one is born again, and it is at this time that a believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Repentence is necessary for one to be born again.
Sanctification comes throughout the believers life, and many, many times the believer repents as he/she finds out the different sins that one is mixed up in throughout their life. The sanctification process occurs throughout the life of a believer, and repentence is a constant occurance. Glorification of a believer comes at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. All believers will be glorified in the Lord Jesus Christ at his coming.

There is no condemnation to those who are born again believers.

 

[jgredline]

Justification comes when one is born again, and it is at this time that a believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Repentence is necessary for one to be born again.
Sanctification comes throughout the believers life, and many, many times the believer repents as he/she finds out the different sins that one is mixed up in throughout their life. The sanctification process occurs throughout the life of a believer, and repentence is a constant occurance. Glorification of a believer comes at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. All believers will be glorified in the Lord Jesus Christ at his coming.

Solo
For the life of me, I can't understand what is so difficult about this to believe.
It is what the Scriptures clearly teach....

 

[Solo]

Solo
For the life of me, I can't understand what is so difficult about this to believe.
It is what the Scriptures clearly teach....

I used to believe that one could lose their salvation. When I became a born again believer, God set me up with the only school counselor who believed in losing ones salvation, and even though I was saved in a Southern Baptist Church, my good friend was a Freewill Baptist who also believed that one could lose their salvation. I used to use the same scriptures to refute OSAS, and even wrote a four page letter to the pastor of my church, calling the OSAS a poisonous doctrine.

God took a couple of years to teach me that my bias was wrong, and that salvation was of Him, not of man. Man cannot save himself, and since God saves man through Jesus Christ, that particular justification is much more powerful than man's inability to walk perfectly in his fallen flesh.

I remember clearly speaking to many people that one could walk free from sin, but did not understand the warring members of the flesh and the inward new creation.

I am speaking from conviction and scriptural truths now, instead of on bias and opinions. God will reveal the truth to those who are born again, and humbly seeking His truth.

 

[destiny]

Solo..

Repentence is necessary, otherwise one cannot be born again.

and you also said..

Your understanding of those that know Jesus Christ and his promise of eternal life as being free to sin is true.

and here...

Does the OSAS teaching allow sinners to keep sinning without harm to their position of salvation in Christ Jesus? Yes, but as Paul wrote to the Corinthians, one that is involved in constant sin is to be spoken to about the sin, and if the person refuses to repent and walk in the spirit, then such a one is to be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the spirit be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 5:5).

Keep in mind that the destruction of the flesh had to occur and they had to be purged of their wickedness before they could enter the kingdom of God. This should tell you that a true christian cannot sin all they want and still go to heaven.

Justification comes when one is born again, and it is at this time that a believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Repentence is necessary for one to be born again.
Sanctification comes throughout the believers life, and many, many times the believer repents as he/she finds out the different sins that one is mixed up in throughout their life. The sanctification process occurs throughout the life of a believer, and repentence is a constant occurance.

On one had you say repentance is necessary for one to be born again, and on the other you say a christian can practice sin ...not talking about slip ups but living in known daily sin...and still be saved.
So, are you saying a person doesn't have to be born again to be saved?
Or are you saying they have no power over the sin nature, it isn't them doing it but the flesh. Kinda like, 'the devil made me do it'.??

There is no condemnation to those who are born again believers.

Context:
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Again, that deminishes 'sin all you want and still go to heaven' :D

 

[Solo]

Once again, destiny, those that are born of God continue in the flesh. You continue to sin, and if you are born again (which I believe that you are), your salvation will not be dependent upon your sinfulness, but instead is dependent upon what Jesus Christ did on the cross. Believers are to crucify the flesh and live according to the Spirit, but should they sin, that sin is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.

What sins in your life are not covered by the blood of Jesus?

You really need to take verses of scripture in context. Let us look at the context of the verse of scripture that you have given. Verse 1 states that there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, and who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Those that are in Christ Jesus are those that have been born again, born of God. Verse 2 states that those in Christ Jesus (born again, born of God) have been made free from the law of sin and death. The law of God was weak through the flesh, and could not free believers from sin and death, but since God sent his own Son Jesus Christ in the likeness of sinful flesh, sin in the flesh was condemned (verse 3). Verse 4 teaches us that the righteousness that was in the law of God would be fulfilled in believers who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Verses 5 through 8 teach us that those that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but they that are after the Spirit mind the things of the Spirit; for to be carnally (fleshly) minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. The carnal mind is against God because it is not subject to the law of God. Those that are in the flesh cannot please God. Now for the IMPORTANT fact of a believer is stated in verse 9. Believers who are born again, born of God, are not in the flesh; but are in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in them. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Jesus Christ, he is none of His.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:1-9

I thought that Paul said in Romans 7 that he recognized that in his flesh dwelt no good thing, and that his flesh was sold under sin. And didn't Paul say that the inward man took delight in the law of God? And didn't Paul write that he did the evil that he knew that he should not do, and that he did not do the good that he knew to do? Did he not write that he was sorrowful about the wretched man that he was, and who was going to save him from the body of death that he was dragging around? He then gave thanks to God almighty for providing him with the salvation that he was sealed with through Jesus Christ. Amen!

 

[Jay T]

Revelation 3:19 - "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent."

This is a Bible verse most in the Christian world refuse to believe.
Because they want to believe that once Jesus Christ has forgiven some sin in the past, that it includes each and every sin of the furture....WHICH IT DOES NOT !

No matter how long a person lives after....their conversion experience, God will bring to them sins that they knew nothing about, which needs correction.

Accepting Jesus Christ, as ones Savior is but the very first step, in their heavenward journey.
That is why the Bible says that works MUST accompany faith,...to be of any value (Ephesians 2:8-10 & 1 JOhn 2:3-6...ect...ect..ect...)

For example: There is no person who goes to church on Sunday(s), that realizes that Sunday worship services, is considered sin, in the eyes of God, and therefore needs to be corrected, to be in the will of God.

The whole purpose of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17), is to use it as a gauge, to check your progress, as a Christian believer.

If you fall short in one area, pray to God for grace, to come up to the standard of Christian character that God holds out

 

[mutzrein]

Once again, destiny, those that are born of God continue in the flesh. You continue to sin, and if you are born again (which I believe that you are), your salvation will not be dependent upon your sinfulness, but instead is dependent upon what Jesus Christ did on the cross. Believers are to crucify the flesh and live according to the Spirit, but should they sin, that sin is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.

What sins in your life are not covered by the blood of Jesus?

One up for you Destiny. Solo believes you are born again :D

And what sins in my life are not covered by the blood of Jesus? Well apparently, not believing in the trinity as Solo does. Seems to be the biggest sin around. :wink:

 

[jgredline]

One up for you Destiny. Solo believes you are born again :D

And what sins in my life are not covered by the blood of Jesus? Well apparently, not believing in the trinity as Solo does. Seems to be the biggest sin around. :wink:

Actually Mutz, The fact that you don't believe God died for you the cross is what is going to condem you, unless you repent...

 

[Oscar3]

The Wicked Deadâ€â€Will They Experience



Annihilation or

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternaltorment.htm
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternaltorment.htm

 

[mutzrein]

Actually Mutz, The fact that you don't believe God died for you the cross is what is going to condem you, unless you repent...

Actually it was God (my Heavenly Father) who sent His son (Christ Jesus) to die on the cross and since it is in Christ that I dwell and have my being, I have no condemnation. So what do you reckon I need to repent from?