A commentary on the Book of Revelation - Part 1

[Rodger]

Isaiah 40:21
It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers, (((((((who stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in)))))))))),

Are you saying the creator of the universe isn't capable of spreading the universe in a day like Isaiah said.

NO.

I am saying just the opposite.

 

[Rodger]

Please remember, I AM NOT THE FINAL WORD ON THIS!
I am sharing what I know and you are free to disagree BUT YOU are not free to be disagreeable!

Revelation 2:1.........
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

In every church listed, the "Angel" of the church is the local Pastor. This 1st church is the one in Ephesus and remember....this is the glorified Lord Jesus Christ speaking.

Please take notice and you may already have done that....the letters to the churches were inserted by God between the vision of the glorified Christ in Chapter #1 and what appears to be the glorified Church in Chapter #4. Any thoughts on WHY that is the case?????

The Church at Ephesus had several good qualities which Jesus commends them for:
1. It was a Working Church.
2. It was a Laboring Church.
3. It was a Patient Church.
4. It was an Intolerant Church.
5. It was a Cautious Church.

This Church had many "Stars" involved in it.
1. Aquilla and Priscilla ministered.
2. The Apostle Paul preached there for 2 years.
3. Apollos ministered there.
4. The Apostle John also was there.

What does that mean????
It means that they were "exposed" and taught correct doctrine!

One of and maybe the #1 reason why the church today is floundering is that correct Bible Doctrine have been placed on the back burner so as to appease the members of the liberal church of today????

Jesus commends them for being "cautious". Cautious means...... Careful.

Jesus says in verse #2.........
" hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars".

Direct, simple to understand language! Oh my friends, do we ever need that these days. We desperately need preachers to say what GOD SAID and not what they think God said!

Today, people tend to believe whatever a charismatic speaker says. And when he says...."God Spoke To ME and Said", now we know he is a man of God and would never lie to us!!!!!

1 Thess. 5:21..........
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1 John 4:1..............
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

Why does God say this. Why the focus on false Apostles??????

Because, whether you like it or not, there are NO Apostles today. It is Biblically impossible!
There are lots and lots of people today working real hard to counterfeit the "signs and wonders" of the Apostles today, but not a single one of them is legitimate.

Why??? Because the Bible says that the Apostles had to have seen Jesus, been alive at His resurrection and seen Him FACE TO FACE!
There are no exceptions to that Bible Doctrine!

There is an excellent book written by Hank Hanagraff called......"Counterfeit Revolution" and I would recommend it to everyone!

This church had many good qualities but they also had one devastating flaw! THEY LEFT THEIR 1st LOVE!

They did things out of DUTY with METHODS and SYSTEMS but they forgot about JESUS!

Jesus is our 1st and best love and without Him the church is nothing more than a social club!

In verse # 5, Jesus gives the formula for this church that applies to every church.......
REMEMBER - The thrill when you 1st got saved and wanted to tell everyone you knew!
REPENT - Stop polishing your halo. Face your sin! Break the false god of vanity!
RESPOND! - CHANGE! Do what is the right thing to do because it is the right thing to do.

Verse #6. Who were the NICOLAITIANS????

There are at least two schools of thought on that.
1.They were the followers of Nicolas who was one of the 1st 7 deacons. He went on to teach the false doctrine that indulgences of the body did not hurt the spirt of man. That turns out today to be the teaching that the Christian Liberty means that the man/woman can use that
as an excuse to practice KNOW - WILLFUL sin and still call themselves a Christian.
2. The actual word "NICOLATAITANES" comes from two Greek words and when used together they mean "To Conquer the Common Laity".
This teaching then became a specail priest class of indivuals in a special position ruling the paity or the average believer.
Take the time to read.....1 Peter 5:3-4; 1 Corth. 12:7-27; Heb. 10>19.

Verse #7.
The Holy Spirit speaks!

Him speaking has never been the problem. However, US hearing Him has always been a problem.

I will stop here and allow you to consume, digest all of this and make comments. It is my sincere prayer that some of this will help someone somewhere!

Remember............we can talk but we can not argue. If you do not agree..........Simply say, God bless you old man, but I do not agree and then we can still have lunch together.

 

[Rodger]

REVELATION 2:8-9.....
"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

"Smyrna".....not New Smyrna, Fl..

It is the PERSECUTED Church.

They are said to be poor but rich. To me, it has always been interesting to notice how God looks at us. We tend to think that because we do not have money in the bank, we are poor. If we do not have "things", we think that we are poor! But God says that when we have Christ WE ARE RICH!
God says that if we have love we are rich.

Somewhere along the line of life, the church bought into the Satanic teaching that MORE and BIGGER is Godly.We tend to believe that a big crowd means that God is blessing that church more than the little old white country church in the valley.

We tend to look at the stained glass, and big organ and TV screens and think that God is blessing this place more than any other place.We tend to observe a big crowd standing and cheering and clapping and think, God is really in that church. Look at the emotions!!!!It would benefit every person to remember that the 1st Temple that God visited man in on this earth was a TENT!ALL of us would be a lot happier in our lives today if we would be satisfied with what we do have instead of trying to get more of what we do not have.

" and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." =
The Greek word here for is “Ioudaios,” which means “Jews,” and means Jews only by physical descent - such as who persecuted Jewish and Gentile Christians - not spiritually as Abraham was, and as the first Christians were (like the 2k+ devout Jews who believed on their Messiah via Jewish Peter’s preaching on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2).

The false Jews who claim to be the tribe of Judah which is what Jew means.

The KJV bible also specifies that the fake jews are the “synagogue” of Satan, who has synagogues and also claims to be Jews.

Deuteronomy tells us how to identify the true Jews by the curses that are upon them. It also said the true Jews would go into bondage and be sold to their enemies. The bible said the true Jews would build a nation (homes, etc) but not truly benefit from it (no reparations) and/or that they would not be in control of the nation they helped to build.

 

[Rodger]

REVELATION 2:10:
"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Here in this verse we learn that Jesus predicted further suffering for the church at Smyrna. Some of the believers would encounter imprisonment and death. The Devil would be responsible for this hateful treatment, but Jesus told the believers not to fear. Early in His earthly ministry Jesus had counseled in Matthew 10:28.....
"Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell".

He continued His counsel by asserting that our heavenly Father's eye is on the sparrows and He values us more than many sparrows in Matthew 10:29............
"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father."

Now for the "ten days" .

The scholars I have studied have stated that the "10 Days" = 10 periods of time when intense persecution was done by 10 different Roman Emperors........
1. Nero...........................................................................................64-68 A.D.
2. Domitian...................................................................................81-95.
3. Trajan..........................................................................................104-117
4. Aurelius......................................................................................161-180
5. Severus.......................................................................................200-211
6. Maximus.....................................................................................235-237
7. Decius..........................................................................................250-253
8. Valerian........................................................................................257-260
9. Aurelian.......................................................................................270-275
10Dicoletian....................................................................................303-312

We should all remember that as Christians, we are not promised to be kept from persecution, or pain or suffering. I realize that that flies in the face of some of your denominational teaching but that is the Bible fact!!!! However, God promised us that we are kept in—or through—persecution. Jesus never leaves us or forsakes us; therefore
we can say, "I will not fear; what can man do to me?" (Hebrews 13:5–6).

The Church in the USA does NOT KNOW about persecution!

The REAL church left after the Rapture will be, but not today because of its religious stand.

The church today has by and large stood on the sidelines when Prayer and Bible readings were stopped in 1964. There was hardly a whimper in 1973 when abortion was made legal and even less when homosexual marriages were allowed.

In fact, the U.S. doesn’t even make the top 50 countries in the world according to Open Doors’ World Watch List. Worldwide, persecution of Christians is rising, but evangelicals’ claims of persecution in the U.S. are unfounded and rooted in intersecting legacies of racism, sexism, heterosexism, and denominational teachings rejected by the majority of society,.........ex. Handling Rattlesnakes which is not even Bible Christianity to begin with but is actually Occultic.

 

[TCC2024]

The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days (490 prophetic years when you add a day for a year principle), beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 1-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a four hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus as they still follow Judaism.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days (490 Prophetic years) as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill parts of the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call The Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it, Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus calls us and we meet him in the clouds, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the Romans under Vespasian their prince that the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest who have favor with that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolations of Abominations where a so called Antichrist (emphasis on the capitol "A") will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the son of perdition, being the false prophet/last antichrist, tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45. Gods word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years beginning with the first six seals being the beginning of sorrows (first woe). The last three and a half years starting with the (second woe) with the sounding of the first trumpet and ending with the seventh trumpet that includes everything else written in Revelations that includes the time of Christ return for His Bride in Rev 19 up to the end when Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet and ends with the new Jerusalem being ushered down as then we will be with the Lord forever.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. The last siege and destruction of the 2nd Temple and the wall was in 70AD as a revolt led by Titus as he broke through the walls and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. The wall and the Temple were never rebuilt, nor will it be in the future. The Temple mount laid waste until the Dome of the Rock was built on it in 691AD by the caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. The Islamic control over the Dome of the Rock will never surrender the original temple mount back to the Jews.

The last decree to build and restore Jerusalem, including the building of the second Temple that took 49 days/49 prophetic years, came around 538BC with the decree given to Ezra by King Cyrus. Through much oppositions the city, walls and the second Temple were completed on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of King Darius II around 417BC as he reigned from 423BC to 404BC, Ezra Chapter 1-6. This was part of the vision given to Daniel as the full prophecy given to him is found in Daniel Chapters 9-12.

During the first six trumpets we read all the destruction that will befall earth and its inhabitants during God's great wrath being poured out into the world on those who are none of Christ as they refuse to repent. This will be worldwide which will cause much chaos and great fear in the hearts of those who have no understanding, Hosea 4:6, 7. They will be seeking a type of savior, yet rejecting the very Savior, Christ Jesus, who wants to save them.

During the sounding of the seventh trumpet they will accept this deceptive savior who is the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, who will take his seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock sits and even now is being refurbished. He will try and rule the nations for 3 1/2 years causing all to bow down and take its mark as he promises peace and safety displaying lying signs and wonders claiming he is God. Those who refuse will be taken captive and dealt with as many Christians will either become a slave or die a martyr's death, Rev 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21, At the end of the 3 1/2 years of the beast and its false prophet, Christ returns with His army (warring angels) from heaven and fights the final battle destroying the beast and false prophet by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, casting both into the lake of fire. Then will Christ destroy the remnant being those who followed after the beast out of the earth from every nation that have always followed and obeyed the beast.

Rev 20 This is the time of the gathering of the saints when Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His that are asleep in the grave and alive at His coming, Matthew 24:29-31 as He then binds Satan for a time so he can not interfere with the gathering. Once we are gathered to Him Jesus lets Satan loose for a time to gather his army, which I believe to be his demonic angels, against the camp of the saints, but God consumes his army by fire sent down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. All those who have now been slain by Jesus are gathered with the rest of the dead and face God's final judgment as their names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

Hi For His Glory. I am not so clear on how you understand the following: And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate. How do you understand that? Also, if the only people alive at the end of the tribulation are resurrected, who in your undersanding enters the 1,000 year reign on earth with Christ that are not glorified bodies? Because some will die during that period, correct? Blessings.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi For His Glory. I am not so clear on how you understand the following: And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate. How do you understand that? Also, if the only people alive at the end of the tribulation are resurrected, who in your undersanding enters the 1,000 year reign on earth with Christ that are not glorified bodies? Because some will die during that period, correct? Blessings.

The one who makes desolate is the man of lawlessness/son of perdition/last antichrist being the beast out of the earth that will cause all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.
2Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 13. Jesus said when we see this abomination that will reign for 3 1/2 years we are to flee from it, Matthew 24:15-28. This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and a false religious global system that the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

It's only the dead that are resurrected when Christ returns for at that time those who have died that are Christ own will be caught up to those who are still alive at His coming and all will be changed and caught up together to meet Jesus in the air and will ever more be with Him. Those who have died that rejected Christ will, along with those who are still alive at His coming, will all be damned to the lake of fire as their names are not found written in the Lambs book of life, John 5:28-29, 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

As far as the 1000 year reign, IMO, I believe 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

 

[TCC2024]

The one who makes desolate is the man of lawlessness/son of perdition/last antichrist being the beast out of the earth that will cause all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.
2Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 13. Jesus said when we see this abomination that will reign for 3 1/2 years we are to flee from it, Matthew 24:15-28. This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and a false religious global system that the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

It's only the dead that are resurrected when Christ returns for at that time those who have died that are Christ own will be caught up to those who are still alive at His coming and all will be changed and caught up together to meet Jesus in the air and will ever more be with Him. Those who have died that rejected Christ will, along with those who are still alive at His coming, will all be damned to the lake of fire as their names are not found written in the Lambs book of life, John 5:28-29, 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

As far as the 1000 year reign, IMO, I believe 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

Thanks for your reply. So you would not see a reign on earth of Christ for a long period of time? That is helpful to know. And appreciate you being open about that. I realize we will be thinking differently on this. But beyond mere tenants of theology, it would make sense how the 1st Adam in a garden messed it up. While the 2nd Adam in community communicated God's grace upon earth in what His intention for the rule of man on earth to look like...before the state of eternity. Perhaps?

Also thanks dear sister for your reply to Danial. In an openness to consider the views of others I try to weigh what I can to consider in good faith. However, when I revisit that Dan 9:27 passage with a blank slate mind, what jumps out at me is the context of the one ending sacrifices is sandwiched between surrounding comments of the people of the prince to come. I understand how you are seeing it. And scholarship can be divided, as one scholar notes: "the subject of the sentence is ambiguous." So it makes sense there will be other views. But what stands out even more than that is ironically the 70th week is hidden in context. Like, what happened to it? lol. Even if we don't want it to be suspended and apply toward when Israel returns as a nation and it be a biblically proportioned time allotted to them perhaps, you would admit, the notion of a 70th week being somewhere is poetically available for such consideration, no? In other words, we did not pull it out of thin air, though. It seems somewhat mysteriously missing...muhahahaha. Like. No? lol

In any event, I used to be reformed and have a rap sheet a mile long of "man centered doctrine" and "things men misuse in scripture" from that camp. Only decades later to find out, so did they. And the irony is that a portion of the reformed camp is named after a man himself, Calvin. So I understand what you are saying in the sense of it could be a misunderstanding of man to get a 70th Revelation week out of it. I do. But since the language is understood by scholars as ambigious, its not really left to the interpretation of men necessarily...on either side. For us to think its is a man's error to think a Revaltion 70th week exists, and yet think it is not a man's error to see the tribulation as only 3.5 years is understandable as far as one landing the plane somewhere. But it would seem categorically both "men's opinions," of the word...no? Blessings.

 

[for_his_glory]

TCC2024 I do enjoy our conversations on end times. You are very pleasant to talk with. Here is my understanding of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27.

The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days (490 prophetic years when you add a day for a year principle), beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 1-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a four hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus as they still follow Judaism.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days (490 Prophetic years) as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill parts of the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call The Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it, Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus calls us and we meet him in the clouds, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the Romans under Vespasian their prince that the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest who have favor with that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolations of Abominations where a so called Antichrist (emphasis on the capitol "A") will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the son of perdition, being the false prophet/last antichrist, tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45. Gods word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years beginning with the first six seals being the beginning of sorrows (first woe). The last three and a half years starting with the (second woe) with the sounding of the first trumpet and ending with the seventh trumpet that includes everything else written in Revelations that includes the time of Christ return for His Bride in Rev 19 up to the end when Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet and ends with the new Jerusalem being ushered down as then we will be with the Lord forever.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. The last siege and destruction of the 2nd Temple and the wall was in 70AD as a revolt led by Titus as he broke through the walls and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. The wall and the Temple were never rebuilt, nor will it be in the future. The Temple mount laid waste until the Dome of the Rock was built on it in 691AD by the caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. The Islamic control over the Dome of the Rock will never surrender the original temple mount back to the Jews.

The last decree to build and restore Jerusalem, including the building of the second Temple that took 49 days/49 prophetic years, came around 538BC with the decree given to Ezra by King Cyrus. Through much oppositions the city, walls and the second Temple were completed on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of King Darius II around 417BC as he reigned from 423BC to 404BC, Ezra Chapter 1-6. This was part of the vision given to Daniel as the full prophecy given to him is found in Daniel Chapters 9-12.

During the first six trumpets we read all the destruction that will befall earth and its inhabitants during God's great wrath being poured out into the world on those who are none of Christ as they refuse to repent. This will be worldwide which will cause much chaos and great fear in the hearts of those who have no understanding, Hosea 4:6, 7. They will be seeking a type of savior, yet rejecting the very Savior, Christ Jesus, who wants to save them.

During the sounding of the seventh trumpet they will accept this deceptive savior who is the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, who will take his seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock sits and even now is being refurbished. He will try and rule the nations for 3 1/2 years causing all to bow down and take its mark as he promises peace and safety displaying lying signs and wonders claiming he is God. Those who refuse will be taken captive and dealt with as many Christians will either become a slave or die a martyr's death, Rev 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21, At the end of the 3 1/2 years of the beast and its false prophet, Christ returns with His army (warring angels) from heaven and fights the final battle destroying the beast and false prophet by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, casting both into the lake of fire. Then will Christ destroy the remnant being those who followed after the beast out of the earth from every nation that have always followed and obeyed the beast.

Rev 20 This is the time of the gathering of the saints when Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His that are asleep in the grave and alive at His coming, Matthew 24:29-31 as He then binds Satan for a time so he can not interfere with the gathering. Once we are gathered to Him Jesus lets Satan loose for a time to gather his army, which I believe to be his demonic angels, against the camp of the saints, but God consumes his army by fire sent down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. All those who have now been slain by Jesus are gathered with the rest of the dead and face God's final judgment as their names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

 

[Rodger]

TCC2024 I do enjoy our conversations on end times. You are very pleasant to talk with. Here is my understanding of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27.

The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days (490 prophetic years when you add a day for a year principle), beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 1-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a four hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus as they still follow Judaism.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days (490 Prophetic years) as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill parts of the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call The Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it, Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus calls us and we meet him in the clouds, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the Romans under Vespasian their prince that the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest who have favor with that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolations of Abominations where a so called Antichrist (emphasis on the capitol "A") will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the son of perdition, being the false prophet/last antichrist, tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45. Gods word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years beginning with the first six seals being the beginning of sorrows (first woe). The last three and a half years starting with the (second woe) with the sounding of the first trumpet and ending with the seventh trumpet that includes everything else written in Revelations that includes the time of Christ return for His Bride in Rev 19 up to the end when Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet and ends with the new Jerusalem being ushered down as then we will be with the Lord forever.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. The last siege and destruction of the 2nd Temple and the wall was in 70AD as a revolt led by Titus as he broke through the walls and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. The wall and the Temple were never rebuilt, nor will it be in the future. The Temple mount laid waste until the Dome of the Rock was built on it in 691AD by the caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. The Islamic control over the Dome of the Rock will never surrender the original temple mount back to the Jews.

The last decree to build and restore Jerusalem, including the building of the second Temple that took 49 days/49 prophetic years, came around 538BC with the decree given to Ezra by King Cyrus. Through much oppositions the city, walls and the second Temple were completed on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of King Darius II around 417BC as he reigned from 423BC to 404BC, Ezra Chapter 1-6. This was part of the vision given to Daniel as the full prophecy given to him is found in Daniel Chapters 9-12.

During the first six trumpets we read all the destruction that will befall earth and its inhabitants during God's great wrath being poured out into the world on those who are none of Christ as they refuse to repent. This will be worldwide which will cause much chaos and great fear in the hearts of those who have no understanding, Hosea 4:6, 7. They will be seeking a type of savior, yet rejecting the very Savior, Christ Jesus, who wants to save them.

During the sounding of the seventh trumpet they will accept this deceptive savior who is the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, who will take his seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock sits and even now is being refurbished. He will try and rule the nations for 3 1/2 years causing all to bow down and take its mark as he promises peace and safety displaying lying signs and wonders claiming he is God. Those who refuse will be taken captive and dealt with as many Christians will either become a slave or die a martyr's death, Rev 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21, At the end of the 3 1/2 years of the beast and its false prophet, Christ returns with His army (warring angels) from heaven and fights the final battle destroying the beast and false prophet by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, casting both into the lake of fire. Then will Christ destroy the remnant being those who followed after the beast out of the earth from every nation that have always followed and obeyed the beast.

Rev 20 This is the time of the gathering of the saints when Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His that are asleep in the grave and alive at His coming, Matthew 24:29-31 as He then binds Satan for a time so he can not interfere with the gathering. Once we are gathered to Him Jesus lets Satan loose for a time to gather his army, which I believe to be his demonic angels, against the camp of the saints, but God consumes his army by fire sent down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. All those who have now been slain by Jesus are gathered with the rest of the dead and face God's final judgment as their names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

Scripture says that the "MAN" of sin, and Lawlessness who is the Antichrist is actually a "MAN/PERSON.

An anti-christ spirit and system has been in operation for 6 thousand years. But THE A/C will be a man who is totally consumed by Satan.

Bible Scriptures that say the coming A/C will be a MAN are..........

"the promise that shall come" –Daniel 9:26 NKJV

"a fierce king"—Daniel 8:23 NLT

"a master of intrigue"—Daniel 8:23 NIV

"a despicable man" –Daniel 11:21 NLT

"a worthless shepherd"—Zechariah 11:16–17 NLT

"the one who brings destruction" –2 Thessalonians 2:3 NLT

"the lawless one" –2 Thessalonians 2:8 NKJV

"the evil man" –2 Thessalonians 2:9 NLT

"the Beast" –Revelation 13:1 NKJV

 

[for_his_glory]

Scripture says that the "MAN" of sin, and Lawlessness who is the Antichrist is actually a "MAN/PERSON.

An anti-christ spirit and system has been in operation for 6 thousand years. But THE A/C will be a man who is totally consumed by Satan.

Bible Scriptures that say the coming A/C will be a MAN are..........

"the promise that shall come" –Daniel 9:26 NKJV

"a fierce king"—Daniel 8:23 NLT

"a master of intrigue"—Daniel 8:23 NIV

"a despicable man" –Daniel 11:21 NLT

"a worthless shepherd"—Zechariah 11:16–17 NLT

"the one who brings destruction" –2 Thessalonians 2:3 NLT

"the lawless one" –2 Thessalonians 2:8 NKJV

"the evil man" –2 Thessalonians 2:9 NLT

"the Beast" –Revelation 13:1 NKJV

What I am showing is that of Rev 13 beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth who will cause all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death for refusing the mark of the beast. It starts with this Luciferian system that goes way back with the Babylonian Empire up to the present revived Roman Empire that gives its power to the last antichrist being the son of perdition/false prophet that will rule for a time of 3 1/2 years and then consumed by the very words that Christ will speak against the beast and it's false prophet casting them into the lake of fire when He returns. Rev 13; 19.

 

[Rodger]

What I am showing is that of Rev 13 beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth who will cause all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death for refusing the mark of the beast. It starts with this Luciferian system that goes way back with the Babylonian Empire up to the present revived Roman Empire that gives its power to the last antichrist being the son of perdition/false prophet that will rule for a time of 3 1/2 years and then consumed by the very words that Christ will speak against the beast and it's false prophet casting them into the lake of fire when He returns. Rev 13; 19.

I agree with that.

You originally said that the A/C was a system wgich is why I responded as I did.

Yes.....the Satanic Babylonian system with produce a Human MAN who will be possessed and controlled by Satan is what I believe.

Thanks for the clarification my friend.

 

[TCC2024]

for_his_glory

PART ONE...

Thanks for your kind words. We are all going to see slight to great differences in how we understand the word working. What I have seen seems to be a challenge to peeps can be the consideration of where the differing views are coming from. So I believe it is wise and helpful and hopefully edifying to genuinely consider what other views are actually saying because of course there might be some genuine insight. Ok so from the sound of it you we see the abomination of desolation in Dan 9 different than the one Jesus brings up in Matt 24 etc? If so, I understand the distinction you make. But it sounds like what might sway you to see those two differently is other surrounding criteria. Like how you count the 69 weeks of years.

Ok, so when I look at for example counting weeks of years from a website like this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_Seventy_Weeks#:~:text=The seven and 62-week,with the baptism of Jesus. ...we see that 483 years brings us to Jesus baptism. Some counts bring it to the point Palm Sunday (which is a lot closer to the crucifixion). Have you noticed this timing discrepancy in your study? And what do you make of those differing timeline landing points?

"The seven and 62-week "weeks" are most frequently understood for the purpose of Christological interpretation as consecutive, making up a period of 69 weeks (483 years) beginning with the decree given to Ezra by Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BCE (the terminus a quo) and terminating with the baptism of Jesus."

In addition, it seems that you permit a certain amount of poetry on your side you don't seem to equally proportion for views that see the 70th week as pending for the future. If I am mistaken please help me understand how what I am seeing is not potentially the case. On your view, you see the 70th week as "ongoing." Until the end of the age of grace. So you see the 70th week as thousands of years, not just 7 like the other 69 weeks follow. If so, this is poetic license you grant your view. But it is also poetic license that we suspend the 70th week in light of Israel. Our argument would be harder to make if we were having this discussion in 1849. But since we have seen Israel return in 1948, you do see how this at least on the surface grants a certain amount of potential credibility to a "pending" 70th week, no? I mean at least in some biblical theory sense though, right? If so, the floating 70th week theory has a tangible down payment of Isreal actually being a country again. And they are no small item on the table. Their economic influence is super poweful in the world today. So as a major player, like a neon sign, it admittedly does grant a certain ponial credibility to their perhaps having a 70th week to come, no? I mean you may not see it that way or agree. But on your view of the 70th week as 2,000 years...do you have a receipt as powerfully demonstrable as a country reforming and gaining massive power and social clout? What, other than presumption, might you have to give legs and roots to a 70th week that lasts 2000+ years?

. . . . .

PART 2

Also you note that in your view the tribulation is 3.5 years. From what it sounds like this starts with an antichrist taking a seat of royal authority from Jerusalem. From what I understand in your position, this event occurs after 7 seals and 7 bowls. So if I have the correct, you are saying that the seals and trumpets are not part of the tribulation? But only increasing troubling events that pave the way?

If I have that right about your view, it is understandable though why many believers would see the seals and trumpets as part of a greater expanse of a tribulation period though, no? I mean yes maybe we have the wrong. Maybe they are not. Maybe the prewrather position does not go far enough. Maybe instead of seeing the seals as birth pangs, we should include trumpets as well? It sounds like this is a point you making if not mistaken.

Regarding the woes, here is Got questions.org on that:

What are the three woes of Revelation? | GotQuestions.org

What are the three woes of Revelation? What do the 3 woes represent?

www.gotquestions.org

Now I used to be reformed and got questions is heavily leaning toward a reformed tradition although they do have other denominational perspectives present. From what I can tell, their view of how the word of God positions the statements of woes being the 5th, 6th, and 7th trumpets seems to be how the word does actually frame the woes. How are the woes not the 5th, 6th, and 7th trumpets though in your view?

. . . . .

I enjoy our interaction as well. I am not opposed to considering your view. But the above would be some of the hurdles in entertaining it. For example, I am a pretrib rapture person. I have seen 15 to 20 hours of high end debate against it. Because if it is wrong I want to see it is. I don't have a dog in the fight...or at least back then. But several years ago someone came to me with a 7th Trumpet Rapture view. Admittedly, it threw me off...lol. I had no real defense against its grand arguments. So I did work through it with others. I could see enough surrounding biblical elements to dismiss within a few weeks. But I admit it took time to process. Why I point this out is that for 2 real weeks, I viewed the scriptures as though the 7th Trumpet was real, granting it real traction in my heart to genuinely and honestly consider. So I say this because I am genuinely open to see other views and even granting them the authority to have me change my mind. I'm not just trying to defend a view I have. But I hope it is somewhat clear where I would see some fairly large walls to overcome from my own perspective. And then of course it does not make it any easier to, on top of that, have the view I do about the first seal. But I am always willing to place that on the shelf knowing it is kind of a gypsy like theology and won't be reasonable to hold that view not considering how wrong it might be. So yeah just saying I am genuinely interested. I hope that shows. Blessings.

 

[for_his_glory]

TCC2024 Not sure if I posted this so will post it again.

Daniel's 70 weeks
The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days (490 prophetic years when you add a day for a year principle), beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 1-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a four hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus as they still follow Judaism.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days (490 Prophetic years) as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill parts of the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call The Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it, Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus calls us and we meet him in the clouds, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the Romans under Vespasian their prince that the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest who have favor with that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolations of Abominations where a so called Antichrist (emphasis on the capitol "A") will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the son of perdition, being the false prophet/last antichrist, tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45. Gods word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years beginning with the first six seals being the beginning of sorrows (first woe). The last three and a half years starting with the (second woe) with the sounding of the first trumpet and ending with the seventh trumpet that includes everything else written in Revelations that includes the time of Christ return for His Bride in Rev 19 up to the end when Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet and ends with the new Jerusalem being ushered down as then we will be with the Lord forever.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. The last siege and destruction of the 2nd Temple and the wall was in 70AD as a revolt led by Titus as he broke through the walls and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. The wall and the Temple were never rebuilt, nor will it be in the future. The Temple mount laid waste until the Dome of the Rock was built on it in 691AD by the caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. The Islamic control over the Dome of the Rock will never surrender the original temple mount back to the Jews.

The last decree to build and restore Jerusalem, including the building of the second Temple that took 49 days/49 prophetic years, came around 538BC with the decree given to Ezra by King Cyrus. Through much oppositions the city, walls and the second Temple were completed on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of King Darius II around 417BC as he reigned from 423BC to 404BC, Ezra Chapter 1-6. This was part of the vision given to Daniel as the full prophecy given to him is found in Daniel Chapters 9-12.

During the first six trumpets we read all the destruction that will befall earth and its inhabitants during God's great wrath being poured out into the world on those who are none of Christ as they refuse to repent. This will be worldwide which will cause much chaos and great fear in the hearts of those who have no understanding, Hosea 4:6, 7. They will be seeking a type of savior, yet rejecting the very Savior, Christ Jesus, who wants to save them.

During the sounding of the seventh trumpet they will accept this deceptive savior who is the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, who will take his seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock sits and even now is being refurbished. He will try and rule the nations for 3 1/2 years causing all to bow down and take its mark as he promises peace and safety displaying lying signs and wonders claiming he is God. Those who refuse will be taken captive and dealt with as many Christians will either become a slave or die a martyr's death, Rev 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21, At the end of the 3 1/2 years of the beast and its false prophet, Christ returns with His army (warring angels) from heaven and fights the final battle destroying the beast and false prophet by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, casting both into the lake of fire. Then will Christ destroy the remnant being those who followed after the beast out of the earth from every nation that have always followed and obeyed the beast.

Rev 20 This is the time of the gathering of the saints when Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His that are asleep in the grave and alive at His coming, Matthew 24:29-31 as He then binds Satan for a time so he can not interfere with the gathering. Once we are gathered to Him Jesus lets Satan loose for a time to gather his army, which I believe to be his demonic angels, against the camp of the saints, but God consumes his army by fire sent down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. All those who have now been slain by Jesus are gathered with the rest of the dead and face God's final judgment as their names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

 

[for_his_glory]

TCC2024 This is my study on the Rapture

The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1Corinthians15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18,heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air,1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1Corinthians 15:51-58. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.

Reference:
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4;Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16

Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15;Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.​

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:


1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery

2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly

3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day, John 6:40.It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[TCC2024]

@for_hi_glory.

Thanks sister for expressing your research on the issue. As for the secret rapture theory, I believe you make a good point in that there is no conclusive evidence of this sort of event. In this way, I would wonder how the significance of the dead in Christ rising first plays out in relation to the physical world's observation of that distinction.

I'm not a great fan of the secret rapture theory. And in some ways I concede that value the 6th seal rapture theorists hold in how they view that seal and its loudness. Harpazo is noted in Rev 12. For me this is the strongest pretrib rapture evidence. Which can be problematic in my being so vulnerable in that way. Because that chapter is widely controversial having very strong opinions about it on a few fronts. But I do have quite a schematic as to why I believe it is so much stronger than at normal glance if interested.

Having said that, I'm not convinced in my pretrib view that the rapture would not be somewhat loud. It is quite possible it could be loud even soon (within years possibly) and yet, pretrib. That is a potential in my estimation. Blessings.

 

[for_his_glory]

@for_hi_glory.

Thanks sister for expressing your research on the issue. As for the secret rapture theory, I believe you make a good point in that there is no conclusive evidence of this sort of event. In this way, I would wonder how the significance of the dead in Christ rising first plays out in relation to the physical world's observation of that distinction.

I'm not a great fan of the secret rapture theory. And in some ways I concede that value the 6th seal rapture theorists hold in how they view that seal and its loudness. Harpazo is noted in Rev 12. For me this is the strongest pretrib rapture evidence. Which can be problematic in my being so vulnerable in that way. Because that chapter is widely controversial having very strong opinions about it on a few fronts. But I do have quite a schematic as to why I believe it is so much stronger than at normal glance if interested.

Having said that, I'm not convinced in my pretrib view that the rapture would not be somewhat loud. It is quite possible it could be loud even soon (within years possibly) and yet, pretrib. That is a potential in my estimation. Blessings.

When Christ returns on the last day after the sounding of the seven trumpets and seven vial judgements, the dead in Christ are risen from their graves and we who are Christ own that are still alive at His coming will be gathered up with them to meet Jesus in the air. We are then changed from this corruptible to incorruptible and from mortal to immortal receiving our new glorified bodies, Matthew 24:29-39; 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

[JLB]

It has been my position so far that Daniel's 70th week is yet in the future, but I shall definitely have to think deeply about this.

Amen.

Let’s look at the Prophecy.


“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:24-27


Can we first agree that there are three distinct and separate time frames that make up the 70 weeks?

Seven weeks
Sixty two weeks
One week


What is it that causes the separation in these time frames?






JLB

 

[TCC2024]

When Christ returns on the last day after the sounding of the seven trumpets and seven vial judgements, the dead in Christ are risen from their graves and we who are Christ own that are still alive at His coming will be gathered up with them to meet Jesus in the air. We are then changed from this corruptible to incorruptible and from mortal to immortal receiving our new glorified bodies, Matthew 24:29-39; 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

So are the only ones alive at that time left are believers? Or you would see that there are still people who did not take the mark but did not believe either and that will be the race that occupies Christ's reign on earth? Or wait...lol...I'm not sure but, you don't see a 1,000 year reign coming. Just the eternal state at that time?

 

[TCC2024]

TCC2024 Not sure if I posted this so will post it again.

Daniel's 70 weeks
The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days (490 prophetic years when you add a day for a year principle), beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 1-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a four hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus as they still follow Judaism...

I believe you are saying the same or similar to this view, yes? Correct?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/m57pdh/does_daniels_70_week_prophecy_predict_jesus_using

So if that is accurate I understand you middle of the week. But you also say this: "The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe." Which it taking poetic license with 70th week. Because no week of 7 years lasts 2,000 + years though. So that is your poetic read into it though, no? Or is their a way to conclude the 70th week after Christ's death some 3.5 years later? If so, this hermeneutic would make sense to me. But to make the first half of the 70th week 3.5 years and the second half 2000 + years does not seem to be a stable hermeneutic though. I think it is honorable you would include the church age as "your people" the 70 weeks is for. But I just find it too contrastively interesting that 70 AD Rome sacks Israel and for 2000 years "your people (if by this Jews meant) are out of the picture. That would make more sense though that if we are going to do something poetic with 70, it would be more clean to float the entire week rather than split it up into two different counting systems altogether though, no perhaps?

The way though the woes read in sequence placement is trumpet 5, 6, and 7. Having nothing to do with seals. How do you defend the woe for seals biblically though? And just for clarification sake, please, this is not a common view to me, you see seals prior to the trib, then 3.5 years of a mix of trumpets and bowls? If so, it sounds like your trib starts with the AC ruling? And if the trib starts at the abomination of desolation, where do you place trumpet 5 from which empowers AC supernaturally? If trumpets 1-4 are at the abimonation of desolation would that mean the AC has power to demand worship and taking his mark without the supernatural support of abbodon from the pit who kills the 2 witnesses? Thanks for your patience with this. I am just not understanding this order. Thanks dear sister. Blessings.

 

[for_his_glory]

TCC2024

This is how the prophetic 70 weeks break down using the Lunar Calendar which has 360 days.

1. The 7 weeks - This 49 year period is the time where the 'commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem' was given. It would take 49 years to accomplish this, and it began in 445 BC.

2. The 62 weeks - From the end point on the rebuilding of the walls, until Messiah was to be revealed, it would be 62 weeks, or 434 years.

3. The last week - This 7 year period is yet future as there is a gap between the 62 weeks and the last 7 year period when Israel rejected the Messiah and He went to the cross and then came the time of the Gentiles until that of God again turning His attention to the Jews and Israel whom He saved a remnant of the twelve tribes.

Adding the 7 weeks, or 49 years, to the 62 weeks, or 434 years, brings us to a total of exactly 483 from the time that the commandment went forth to rebuild the walls unto the very day that Jesus was paraded through the streets of Jerusalem just prior to going to the cross. Adding the 7 years to that of 483 brings us to 490 years.




The cornerstone for the new Temple was brought to Jerusalem on May 21, 2009 and still remains on the street. "Jerusalem Day" in 1967 was to celebrate the liberation of the Temple Mount, but there is a problem there as the Doom of the Rock sits on the Temple Mount. Baruch Ben-Yosel , chairman of the Movement to Restore the Temple, made it clear that the Temple had to be built in the exact spot where the Dome of the Rock sits.

There will never be a third Temple built by hands, Acts 7:48; Acts 17:24. When the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom after Jesus gave up the ghost, Matthew 27:50, 51, this symbolized that the sacrifice of Jesus and the shedding of his blood was now made for the atonement of sin and that all, Jew and Gentile, can come before Him as He is the only way to the Father, John 14:6.

There is no more veil for the Priest to enter into the Holy of Holies once a year to make atonement for Israel's sin nor is there any more animal sacrifices as we are no longer under the Old Covenant nor the preaching of the law, but are under a new and better covenant of Gods grace through Christ Jesus as our High Priest, Hebrews 4:14-16. Jesus prophesied of the Temple being desolate and that no one will see Him again until His time comes meaning when He returns on the last day, Matthew 24:1, 2; Luke 13:34, 35, John 6:40.

God no longer dwells in a Temple made by hands and this is why God left it desolate all these years when it was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. Now the Dome of the Rock sits on part of the Temple Mount and was built around 692 AD. The Muslims will never give it over to Israel, plus the Dome of the Rock is being refurbished for the son of perdition (not a Muslim man) to come and sit on his throne and will cause a great falling away from truth, Isaiah 14:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.

Jesus fulfilled everything the temple stood for being the last sacrificial lamb taking away all the sin of the world. God no longer dwells in a temple made by hands, Acts 7:48-50; 17:22-31; Hebrews 10:7-18

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The church, (body of Christ) is the temple where God dwells by His Holy Spirit, Zechariah 6:9-15 (prophecy of coming Messiah); 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17; Ephesians 2:19-22, Galatians 3:19-29.

In 70AD the second temple was destroyed and put an end to the temple made by hands and the sacrifices made there. The Temple of God now dwells in all who are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10.